If the kings do move...

jaysoonii · Mar 2, 2011

So lets say our Kings do move ....

Sacramento goes with no professional team...

The city finally gets to the point where they develop a facility... (Just like KJ said yesterday, regardless of kings being here or not, they will continue efforts for a new facility)..

And than..

Larry Elison buys the Hornets and moves them to Sac

And than, 2014 playoffs, Sacramento Hornets knock out all 3 LA teams in playoffs 4-0.

Sac.1989 · Mar 2, 2011

i dont think Larry has any interest in moving a team to Sac, doesnt he want a team in San Jose or Anahiem

jaysoonii · Mar 2, 2011

Yeah, hes been wanting to get a team in San Jose, but its kind of hard considering the Warriors are there as well. You never know, I mean, A Oracle corp is near Sac as well.

mac · Mar 2, 2011

jaysoonii said:

Yeah with Carl Landry, David Anderson and David West leading the way. Chris Paul will be somewhere far far away.

TTown Kings · Mar 2, 2011

If Sac loses the Kings they won't be getting another NBA team.

jaysoonii · Mar 2, 2011

TTown Kings said:

Why not? Thats in the case if Sac had a bad fan base, but we don't. It's just an Arena issue.

If Sacramento finally gets a Arena deal going, the NBA would be forced to have a team in Sac.

Too many basketball fans in the area.

pdxKingsFan · Mar 2, 2011

The NBA has clearly soured on Sac for whatever reason if the Kings go there won't be any help from them.

Bricklayer · Mar 2, 2011

jaysoonii said:

The fans haven't shown very well in years -- one of the side reasons I wanted to see the Here We Stay game work, precisely to send the message to the NBA that even if the Kings leave the city still has enough fans to fill a building. And of course the city/area has shown itself completely incompetent and unwilling to get things done. And its just a crying shame too. Because despite Sacramento's rampant, and largely brought on itself, inferiority complex, it was one of the darlings of the NBA a decade ago. The fans who always showed up no matter what, loudest crowd in the NBA, young owners, college atmosphere, team on the rise, prototype for how the NBA hoped all small franchises would work. Now its the place with the second worst atendance in the league, in a crumbling old building, that has embarrassed itself for a decade with its inability to get something done that every comminity of its size in the nation has gotten done, often repeatedly. The wrong voices are speaking loudest, and getting the right ones to speak up has been like pulling teeth. If Sacramento builds an arena will another team come eventually? That makes it possible (although the incredible stupidity of building an arena AFTER the Kings leave without a major tennant to pay for it just boggles the mind). But I'm not sure ANY professional sporting team is going to look at Sac as the juicy plum it once did after all that has gone on.

Human beings have this tendency to take a snapshot of the world around them and just assume that that is the way its always been and always will be. But cities/communities rise and fall in importance over time. Sometimes dramatically like a New Orleans or Detroit, sometimes long slow declines or demographic trends slowly sapping strength. I don't know what's going to happen to Sacramento in the future, which way it goes. This was all so unnecessary. It wasn't done to Sacramento, Sacramento did this to itself. Can a community with so little vision/collective sense of purpose really compete with other similarly situated ones with much more sense of their own significance? I don't know. The treatment of the Kings issue is just a symptom of a much larger and more virulent disease from what I can see.

fnordius · Mar 2, 2011

jaysoonii said:

I wonder if the fans of the NBA champion Syracuse Nationals (1955) said the same thing? They had a winning team, enthusiastic fans, and their old arena's still available.

Many cities have lost franchises. The larger ones got them back, taking an average time of 12-13 years to do so. Cleveland is the only small city to have managed it, although 23 years passed between the dissolution of the Cleveland Rebels and the creation of the expansion Cavs. Other cities, like Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Buffalo, St. Louis and Providence, have been waiting for over 50 years.

I wouldn't be holding my breath.

TTown Kings · Mar 2, 2011

jaysoonii said:

The city couldn't keep the team they already had for over 25 years. Why would the NBA send them another one? There are cities lining up all over the country trying to get a team, cties that already have facilities built. Not too mention, what are the odds an arena gets built after the Kings leave? I'd say slim to none, if the city couldn't get an arena done while an NBA team was already here, you think they're going to just up and build one once they leave? I'm 30 years old, I don't expect to see an NBA franchise back in Sacramento in my lifetime if this ends up happening. That's just my opinion though.

IfAt1st · Mar 2, 2011

Brick - Sacramento didn't solely do this to themselves.

2002 Western Conference Finals did this to Sacramento.

I believe that the majority of Sacramentans believe that there is no way for the Sacramento Kings to ever win a championship.
And in this day and age, sports is "All About Championships."

If the lightning-in-a-bottle 2002 Kings didn't win one, they believe there is NO WAY another Kings team can - so they simply don't follow the Kings as much.
It's a simple distancing mechanism - almost psychologically assured to result in a dwindling fanbase.

Leaving out what caused the Kings to not win a championship (Stern's dictate, refs' complicity, Lakers' dirty play/boorishness/luck, Kings Game 7 choking and missed FT's, Webber's knee blowing up), the fact remains -

it killed the fanbase in Sacramento.

It just took 8 years for the effect of that crushing loss to become obvious and plain enough to diagnose it.

Circa_1985_Fan · Mar 2, 2011

IfAt1st said:

Agreed...BUT...I think the Spurs are a great example of how things can happen even with the ebb and flow of public emotions toward a singular hometown team...they were good, then horrible, then good, then even worse...to go along with needing a new arena to replace the ancient HemisFair Arena...still title-less after 30 years of existence and bad luck...then...poof, it all turned around and 4 titles later, they remain the benchmark for small market sports, IMO.

IfAt1st · Mar 2, 2011

The Spurs, and San Antonio, are NOTHING like the Kings, and especially the Sacramento Kings, history.

http://www.nba.com/spurs/history/spurs_history.html

Circa_1985_Fan · Mar 2, 2011

IfAt1st said:

I wasn't comparing...was just stating their small market viabilities over the past 40 years.

mm16 · Mar 2, 2011

I live in Anaheim. I feel i'm right in the middle of this staying or going campaign. I don't know all the financial aspects of it, but I do know this city will be able to support another team, fan-wise.

I feel like people don't undersand that Orange County and L.A. are two completely different counties.

Trust me, my friends parents who've spent a majority of their life living here in Anaheim, never leave the county. They're huge Angel fans and despise the Dogders, like many Angel fans do. But i'm not going to base my assumption off of a few people. But in my 3 years of living in Anaheim, I can tell sports teams here can be supported and loved separately from any LA team. And I know many, many many many people ready to jump on this Kings team if they move here, just because they're going to be in their city.

I go to school here at Cal State Fullerton, and it's being talked a lot about by my peers both in classrooms and at work, and it seems almost all of them (with the exception of two) are cool having the Kings here.

I on the other hand, feel like I'm the only one who's in-between on this forum. I would love Sacramento to keep the team, I just can't see them anywhere else right now. But if IT happens, I would just like you guys to know that there's a Sacramento Kings fan ready in Anaheim. And theres many more waiting to join us.

rainmaker · Mar 2, 2011

jaysoonii said:

How would NBA fans in Seattle, Vancouver, and KC feel about what you just said?

twosomeca · Mar 2, 2011

In order for Sac to be in the game, they need an arena. The problem is that they will have to join the crowd of former NBA cities (Vancouver, Seattle, St. Louis, KC) and wannabe NBA cities (Louisville, Norfolk) trying to get a team. If Seattle builds an arena, they go to the top of the list, but I don't think they'll do it unless it is 100% privately financed. That leaves them on the outside looking in. So where does that leave you? Obviously, you need an arena. I just think the chances of getting one done involving public funding goes way down if the Kings leave. Maybe I am wrong on that. Still, it is a lot easier to keep what you have (Kings) rather than to lose it and try to replace it. Ideally (and probably miraculously), the city comes up with a viable arena project ASAP which could save the Kings. Seems like most don't think that will happen. Your mayor certainly doesn't.

kennadog · Mar 2, 2011

twosomeca said:

In order for Sac to be in the game, they need an arena. The problem is that they will have to join the crowd of former NBA cities (Vancouver, Seattle, St. Louis, KC) and wannabe NBA cities (Louisville, Norfolk) trying to get a team. If Seattle builds an arena, they go to the top of the list, but I don't think they'll do it unless it is 100% privately financed. That leaves them on the outside looking in. So where does that leave you? Obviously, you need an arena. I just think the chances of getting one done involving public funding goes way down if the Kings leave. Maybe I am wrong on that. Still, it is a lot easier to keep what you have (Kings) rather than to lose it and try to replace it. Ideally (and probably miraculously), the city comes up with a viable arena project ASAP which could save the Kings. Seems like most don't think that will happen. Your mayor certainly doesn't.

And your point is, Mr. Obvious man?

twosomeca · Mar 2, 2011

kennadog said:

Well, I was trying to address the issue of Sac's ability to get another team, which seems to be a central point of this discussion. I happen to think that Sac wouldn't be in a bad position to get another team if an arena project finally got done. Maybe if I had added that point, my post would have read better to Sac fan. I don't know.

JB_kings · Mar 2, 2011

kennadog said:

Where were all these arena market experts over the years of us discussing this? Too late to the party here, but are gearing up for a party in their hometown now I see. I'm getting more than a little annoyed with listening to the instant socal experts.

twosomeca · Mar 2, 2011

JB_kings said:

Are you saying that I am annoying you? I have been nothing but supportive of Sac keeping the Kings. I don't get it. Why don't you tell me what you really think! Thanks in advance.

JB_kings · Mar 2, 2011

twosomeca said:

Great. Thanks for being supportive. But I'm not sure you and I are in the same page or likely even reading from the same book.

kennadog · Mar 2, 2011

JB_kings said:

Well, in the post I referred to, you pointed out nothing that everyone here doesn't know already.

And there have been experts and consultants galore over the last ten years. Just haven't been able to accomplish an actual arena. However, ICON is the first that has a lot of experience in building arenas here and internationally.

BTW, I have lived in the LA and OC areas and have lived in the SF area, too. I'm not ignorant about any of them.

JB_kings · Mar 2, 2011

kennadog said:

I lived in Anaheim for over a year and I'm down there to visit Disneyland with the kids just about every year. But it's like getting a divorce and watching your wife go shack up with a guy whose sort of been an old friend. So yeah I'm a real preson who has a big emotional investment in my team here. I've laughed and cried through all the good and bad in that time. What Socal people don't get is how much losing the team means to some of us. For them they have a buffet of sports and entertainment. We are losing the only resturant in town in one move.

twosomeca · Mar 2, 2011

fnordius · Mar 2, 2011

Circa_1985_Fan said:

San Antonio isn't considered a very major TV market, but it's still the 7th largest city in the US (1.4M).

When was the last time you watched an NBA game with an antenna, anyway? I think it's been 15 years for me.

Circa_1985_Fan · Mar 2, 2011

fnordius said:

Indeed...but it's metro area isn't very 'big' at all...#28 in the nation...Sacramento is actually bigger at #25 in the nation. Apples and oranges I guess.

kennadog · Mar 2, 2011

Let's talk media markets, as that's what is considered imporatant to teams and their advertisers.

http://www.proadvance.com/topmediamarkets.html

An event planning/marketing company

Sacramento is listed at #19 with Orlando-Daytona at #20. Both ahead of: [] = no NBA basketball

Portland, OR
Indianapolis
[San Diego]
Charlotte
Salt Lake City
New Orleans
Memphis
Oklahoma City
[Kansas City]

Nielson rankings for 10/11:

Has Orlando-Daytona Beach at #19 and Sacramento at #20 in the TV media market; San Antonio still at #37. Both ahead of:

Portland
Charlotte
Indianapolis
[San Diego]
[Kansas City]
Salt Lake City
Milwaukee
Oklahoma City
Memphis
New Orleans

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public factsheets/tv/2010-2011 DMA Ranks.pdf

Edit: As you can see, some NBA cities are really the only team for a large surrounding area or only one in the state, like Indianapolis or Salt Lake.

Section 101 · Mar 2, 2011

kennadog said:

Once again notice there is no Anaheim. It's all part of LA's ratings. So while all you OC people saying its a different market, it's not to the advertisers and those are the ones generate the money for TV contracts.

If the kings do move...

Bench

Starter

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All-Star

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So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary

Don't Make Me Use The Bat

All-Star

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G-League

Hall of Famer

G-League

Dog On It!

G-League

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Dog On It!

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All-Star

All-Star

Dog On It!

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