The Honda center is the best option
- Thread starter Demarcus Cousins
- Start date
From a pure business perspective Anaheim is the best option, not necessarily Honda Center. Lets remove our purple coloured glasses for a minute and ignore the fact that we all want to keep the team in Sacramento
1. Just by moving the team from Sacramento to Anaheim increases its value by some $100 million. Now some will say that this is only relevant if the Maloofs are trying to sell but this is not true. Just by having a more valuable assett you are better able to leverage that in other aspects of running a business. Things like having a better chance of getting loans if needed.
2. Bigger market. While there are many other teams in the same market, the market itself is big enough to support all those team. If Kings move to Anaheim, there is a very good chance that they will gain a great deal of new support just by being a local product. A great deal of OC and surrounding regions will warm to the young up and coming Kings with 2 corner stones in Evans and Cousins.
3. Ability to attract bigger name free agents. This is something that Sacramento has ALWAYS struggled with. Kings currently have the lowest payroll in the league and ability to sign 2-3 all-star level players in the off-season. Big name free agent are more likely to go to a team in Anaheim than they are to Sacramento. This directly impacts my second point. With the team already having their 2 foundations and ability to add 2-3 REALLY good players along wit another top 5 draft pick, the team will bounce back to be one of the best team in the NBA very quickly. This will significantly boost the number of fans the Kings would get in Anaheim. By putting a good young product on the floor, the Kings will give significant run for the money to the other 2 teams in the region. While they will NEVER beat the Lakers in those stakes, they can comfortably beat the Clippers.
Just by being the local team they will attact those casual basketball fans that have never had an NBA team but have every reason to pick one now with a great young team as a local product.
4. A better arena that while its got some years on the clock, it is still better and has potential for re-development and renovations if needed. It is also important to note that the demographic of the region is significantly richer than Sacramento so there are no potential "deal breaking" issues with re-development or even building a new arena down the track.
5. Better TV rights. Just by being in the bigger market, the team will attract better TV right deal. Look at the clippers, for decades they have been perennial laughing stock of the NBA and they have a better TV right deal than the Kings. If the Kings make the roster moves that allow them to be the team that matters in teh region, the TV deal will get signifcantly better.
Now lets not kid ourselves! The Maloofs would be doing their due diligence here and performing feasability studies in regards to moving to Anaheim. They need to do this to convince the NBA Board that their current situation is not financiallu viable and that move to Anaheim is a significant improvement. They would need to present the NBA with a Business Model that will convince everyone that the team can at worst survive and at best flourish in the market. We are talking about a long term study here. Not just for 1 or 2 seasons. NBA will NOT allow a team to move until they can prove that they would be significantly better off somewhere else and that their financial position in their current location is not fincancially sustainable.
While the paraoid lot think that NBA doesn't want the Kings in Sacramento, they should actually see this for what it will be. If the Kings move it will be a significant slap in the face for the NBA. What they proclaimed to be a model franchise a decade ago will need to move out of the top 30 media market in the country. In fact it would be the ONLY top 30 media market that wouldn't have a professional team. That will be a bitter pill to swallow for the NBA and it would drum home the point that their system does NOT work.
1. Just by moving the team from Sacramento to Anaheim increases its value by some $100 million. Now some will say that this is only relevant if the Maloofs are trying to sell but this is not true. Just by having a more valuable assett you are better able to leverage that in other aspects of running a business. Things like having a better chance of getting loans if needed.
2. Bigger market. While there are many other teams in the same market, the market itself is big enough to support all those team. If Kings move to Anaheim, there is a very good chance that they will gain a great deal of new support just by being a local product. A great deal of OC and surrounding regions will warm to the young up and coming Kings with 2 corner stones in Evans and Cousins.
3. Ability to attract bigger name free agents. This is something that Sacramento has ALWAYS struggled with. Kings currently have the lowest payroll in the league and ability to sign 2-3 all-star level players in the off-season. Big name free agent are more likely to go to a team in Anaheim than they are to Sacramento. This directly impacts my second point. With the team already having their 2 foundations and ability to add 2-3 REALLY good players along wit another top 5 draft pick, the team will bounce back to be one of the best team in the NBA very quickly. This will significantly boost the number of fans the Kings would get in Anaheim. By putting a good young product on the floor, the Kings will give significant run for the money to the other 2 teams in the region. While they will NEVER beat the Lakers in those stakes, they can comfortably beat the Clippers.
Just by being the local team they will attact those casual basketball fans that have never had an NBA team but have every reason to pick one now with a great young team as a local product.
4. A better arena that while its got some years on the clock, it is still better and has potential for re-development and renovations if needed. It is also important to note that the demographic of the region is significantly richer than Sacramento so there are no potential "deal breaking" issues with re-development or even building a new arena down the track.
5. Better TV rights. Just by being in the bigger market, the team will attract better TV right deal. Look at the clippers, for decades they have been perennial laughing stock of the NBA and they have a better TV right deal than the Kings. If the Kings make the roster moves that allow them to be the team that matters in teh region, the TV deal will get signifcantly better.
Now lets not kid ourselves! The Maloofs would be doing their due diligence here and performing feasability studies in regards to moving to Anaheim. They need to do this to convince the NBA Board that their current situation is not financiallu viable and that move to Anaheim is a significant improvement. They would need to present the NBA with a Business Model that will convince everyone that the team can at worst survive and at best flourish in the market. We are talking about a long term study here. Not just for 1 or 2 seasons. NBA will NOT allow a team to move until they can prove that they would be significantly better off somewhere else and that their financial position in their current location is not fincancially sustainable.
While the paraoid lot think that NBA doesn't want the Kings in Sacramento, they should actually see this for what it will be. If the Kings move it will be a significant slap in the face for the NBA. What they proclaimed to be a model franchise a decade ago will need to move out of the top 30 media market in the country. In fact it would be the ONLY top 30 media market that wouldn't have a professional team. That will be a bitter pill to swallow for the NBA and it would drum home the point that their system does NOT work.
There's also drawbacks to Anaheim. It might be a good move, for a while and better than Sac now, obviously, if no feasible arena deal appears, soon. I'm just not sure it will be a lasting marriage in Anaheim. I don't think the NBA is totally sold on the idea of three teams in such close proximity, either. I don't think the league wants to start concentrating teams in only a few areas. Even NY only has two teams.
In close proximity, there are two baseball teams, two basketball teams, two hockey teams, and there will be a football team there, not to mention two big universities with national-level college sports presence. The Maloofs and the Kings will be pretty small fish swimming in a big pond. They'll never be out of the shadow of the Lakers there. Heck, they'll be second fiddle to Samueli in their own arena.
Anaheim to me is a "best we can get" right now deal for the Maloofs. It's hardly a blemish free choice. If Taylor?ICON can't come up with a feasible arena plan for Sac, then Anahiem is an option. But I think the Maloofs are choosing between two options, neither of which is great at the moment. All I want is time to hear the Taylor/ICON feasibility study and if the city can get behind that, if it is feasible. If that fails, then the Kings can go with my blessings. I don't expect them to stay with nothing on the table.
In close proximity, there are two baseball teams, two basketball teams, two hockey teams, and there will be a football team there, not to mention two big universities with national-level college sports presence. The Maloofs and the Kings will be pretty small fish swimming in a big pond. They'll never be out of the shadow of the Lakers there. Heck, they'll be second fiddle to Samueli in their own arena.
Anaheim to me is a "best we can get" right now deal for the Maloofs. It's hardly a blemish free choice. If Taylor?ICON can't come up with a feasible arena plan for Sac, then Anahiem is an option. But I think the Maloofs are choosing between two options, neither of which is great at the moment. All I want is time to hear the Taylor/ICON feasibility study and if the city can get behind that, if it is feasible. If that fails, then the Kings can go with my blessings. I don't expect them to stay with nothing on the table.
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We both know that this bit is not true!
The popularity of NBA far surpasses that of NHL and Kings would not be a second fiddle to the Ducks!
Look we all want the Kings to remain in Sacramento! I would be the first one to put my money where my mouth is, even though I am not from Sacramento. However, we need to look at this realistically. Anaheim does come with risks but the potential pay off is much greater than the risk.
Maloofs themselves have said that they have been approached by many cities that would like them to move there. Kasas City, Las Vegas, Louisville among them but despite all the competition in the LA market, its still the best option for them because if they move at the end of this season, from a business perspective, they would be moving at an absolutely right time.
A young up and coming team with 2 franchise type players, a top 5 draft pick AND enormous cap space that owners are willing to use. Make the right moves and Kings are contenders for a decade in a market that has enormous financial possibilities for them.
One thing is for certain though, no matter how many fans they end up having in Anaheim, they will never be as good or as passionate as the ones in Sacramento.
The popularity of NBA far surpasses that of NHL and Kings would not be a second fiddle to the Ducks!
Look we all want the Kings to remain in Sacramento! I would be the first one to put my money where my mouth is, even though I am not from Sacramento. However, we need to look at this realistically. Anaheim does come with risks but the potential pay off is much greater than the risk.
Maloofs themselves have said that they have been approached by many cities that would like them to move there. Kasas City, Las Vegas, Louisville among them but despite all the competition in the LA market, its still the best option for them because if they move at the end of this season, from a business perspective, they would be moving at an absolutely right time.
A young up and coming team with 2 franchise type players, a top 5 draft pick AND enormous cap space that owners are willing to use. Make the right moves and Kings are contenders for a decade in a market that has enormous financial possibilities for them.
One thing is for certain though, no matter how many fans they end up having in Anaheim, they will never be as good or as passionate as the ones in Sacramento.
I think the point is that as a tennant, they could have second choice on scheduling. Each market is a bit different, but there are days of the week and times that are coveted for scheduling home games. This affects how many tickets get sold. For example in the Staples Center, the Lakers get to schedule their dates first, the LA Kings are second and the Clippers get whatever is left. Since Samueli owns the Ducks and their attendance is one of the weaker in the NHL, he will probably get first crack at the scheduling dates. And the NHL season is pretty close to the same as the NBA. And what about playoff dates?
It goes back to a point I have been trying to make about how green that grass is there. Samueli wants the NBA, but he isn't going to give up everything he has with his NHL team just to lure the Maloofs. With no ownership in the Kings involved, he taking care of his team first. The Kings are just there to fill into scheduling holes.
It goes back to a point I have been trying to make about how green that grass is there. Samueli wants the NBA, but he isn't going to give up everything he has with his NHL team just to lure the Maloofs. With no ownership in the Kings involved, he taking care of his team first. The Kings are just there to fill into scheduling holes.
Agreed. Of course if they don't stick around until the feasibility study is complete I will feel incredibly cheated. Honestly I have no idea if this thing will get done but it feels like the best chance the city has ever had. And with a lockout potentially on the horizon sticking around for one more season if the NBA wouldn't grant a second extension is probably not going to cost them as much money as it would in a regular year.
As to the original question, I don't believe Anaheim is the best deal there is. There are smaller but less crowded markets aching to bring pro-sports to their arenas that don't have primary tenants (KC, Lousiville). Certainly these cities aren't as glamorous as kinda-sorta-but-not-LA but surely they would give the team better terms and they would likely attract a far more devoted fan base. In SoCal if you aren't winning you may as well not even be playing.
As to the original question, I don't believe Anaheim is the best deal there is. There are smaller but less crowded markets aching to bring pro-sports to their arenas that don't have primary tenants (KC, Lousiville). Certainly these cities aren't as glamorous as kinda-sorta-but-not-LA but surely they would give the team better terms and they would likely attract a far more devoted fan base. In SoCal if you aren't winning you may as well not even be playing.
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Ive been to both arenas and I can say that the HP center is better only because its not as old but the HONDA center for being 20 years old looks like it's new everywhere you go in the building. The location is perfect, right near Disney, Angels stadium, you have Long Beach, Seal Beach and many other surrounding cities and the team can get the Irvine and possibly the San Diego market. I'm not for the move but it is a nice stadium. Personally if I moved a team anywhere in California it would be to San Diego but the Arena there is a **** hole. I think that's a city that could build them an Arena, great downtown and fantastic city. So in the end, SACRAMENTO is the place to stay.
Pretty much sums up my opinion on this as well. I said this a month ago and I still think it's true with all I have learned since. There is no hurry to move this summer. That supposed open TV contract with Fox is not really open until 2012. Next season is a bust from a lockout perspective. Moving means a massive outflow of cash on their part and little to no revenue in return until the games start up again. The smart move from a business perspective is to weather the lockdown out until the end of 2011 and plan to move next summer. Providing of course that Sacramento cannot come up with a better offer in the mean time.
Seal Beach? What's in Seal Beach other than Leisure World? lol The "Irvine market". Hmmm....there is no doubt that the OC NBA team would have to pull from south county. I would expect a lot of their market strength would be in Irvine, Newport Beach, Carona Del Mar, Huntington Beach, Foothill Ranch, the Lagunas, RSM and the Mission Viejo area.
As for the second-fiddle argument, I agree that the NBA will probably be more popular than the NHL in OC, but loyalty will run long and hard for the Ducks. Don't discount that. Also, the Ducks will remain the primary anchor tenant in that building for many years to come. In that sense, the NBA team is definitely second fiddle.
As for the second-fiddle argument, I agree that the NBA will probably be more popular than the NHL in OC, but loyalty will run long and hard for the Ducks. Don't discount that. Also, the Ducks will remain the primary anchor tenant in that building for many years to come. In that sense, the NBA team is definitely second fiddle.
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I meant that Samueli's company operates the arena and will always put his Ducks ahead of the Kings ion any decision-making. The Maloofs are reduced to mere tenants, while they have been owner/operators of Arco all these years.
Honestly, I think part of the appeal of Anaheim for the Maloofs, is that it is in SoCal and nearer to their other businesses. In realistic terms, I think Kansas City would be a better choice. Beautiful new arena and the fans are sorry they lost the Kings to us. The Maloofs just aren't midwestern guys. Remember they usually have emotional as well as business aspects to their decisions. They want to be in that Hollywood/celebrity glow.
Honestly, I think part of the appeal of Anaheim for the Maloofs, is that it is in SoCal and nearer to their other businesses. In realistic terms, I think Kansas City would be a better choice. Beautiful new arena and the fans are sorry they lost the Kings to us. The Maloofs just aren't midwestern guys. Remember they usually have emotional as well as business aspects to their decisions. They want to be in that Hollywood/celebrity glow.
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The Kings fiinally did the right thing and their team now sucks horribly in order to get high draft picks. During this hideous growth process, attendance is down. The NBA looks at attendance when deciding if a team can move. Well, we qualify. Now that it looks like the suckitude will end, they move to big bucks Anaheim so they can reap the benefit.
Last 10 years roughly, awful basketball but they are is Sacramento. Next 10 years great basketball in Anaheim. Such is life except was it necessary that we get the crap and Anaheim gets the pudding?
Last 10 years roughly, awful basketball but they are is Sacramento. Next 10 years great basketball in Anaheim. Such is life except was it necessary that we get the crap and Anaheim gets the pudding?
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Ask Seattle Sonics fans.
In other words, why the rush at this particular time? (Said for the third time for emphasis) Many writers have said this was the year for the major turn around in team makeup. This was the summer the team would put together a winner. Heck, the Maloofs have said that.
Been pondering the why now question myself. It makes little sense. Unless they figure this is the time based upon exactly what you stated. They have max leverage on Sacramento right now. But leverage is only worth something if you are trying to get a new arena deal done here. Maybe I'm missing something, but the Maloofs appear to be doing as much as they can to not participate and negotiate in good faith with the city and ICON-Taylor. They have to be careful because they are exposed to a large degree of criticism league wide if they look like they are running away from a viable plan to do what they have been asking for.
I forget where I heard this, but they said they want to move before the new CBA to a bigger market. If they stay now it will be harder to move after the new CBA since they would be getting more help.
But to the first part you bring up, how are they going to pay for free agents next year if they have to pay the city loan, relocation fee and everything else that goes along with the move. Seems to me they will be pretty strapped for cash to bring in free agents right after a move.
But to the first part you bring up, how are they going to pay for free agents next year if they have to pay the city loan, relocation fee and everything else that goes along with the move. Seems to me they will be pretty strapped for cash to bring in free agents right after a move.
Yeah it's a lot of dollars. And the media deals are not going to be generating any revenue until some games are played. They can sign players and not have to pay them until games actually get played. In fact with the lockout, they may not even be able to sign free agents until after the new CBA is done. One of the only ways I can think of for them to start collecting money from moving is to sell season tickets in advance ASAP. Not really great since that is going to be a tough sell when they have major doubt about when those games are being played. Lots of risk moving starting this May or June in my opinion. The outlay of cash from them is going to make even a billionaire take pause.
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is that the Maloofs may have asked for the extra time to negotiate a loan themselves to pay back Sac and for relocation cost.
They don't want to take money from Samueli but they do need money. Its very possible that they are trying to secure a loan that pays for the move and would only move if they can do so. They don't want to lose their control of the team to Samueli.
They figure they can work it out because they are getting 5 yrs of free rent and the increase in TV revenue. Amick said he heard the potential deal with Fox in Anaheim is 4 times of their current deal in Sac. That allows them to pay for their loan payment easily.
They don't want to take money from Samueli but they do need money. Its very possible that they are trying to secure a loan that pays for the move and would only move if they can do so. They don't want to lose their control of the team to Samueli.
They figure they can work it out because they are getting 5 yrs of free rent and the increase in TV revenue. Amick said he heard the potential deal with Fox in Anaheim is 4 times of their current deal in Sac. That allows them to pay for their loan payment easily.
That is quite possible. Its a good time to borrow, with interest rates low. I'm sure the interest on any new loan will be lower than what the city loan here has, at this point. Still, with relocation costs, paying off Sac and paying for the physical move, its not insignificant debt they'd be taking on. The debt will run longer than 5 years. Will they still be able to pay the debt service, once they start making lease payments?
Honetly, in the back of my mind, I'm wondering if Anaheim could turn out to be a temporary fix with plans to move on elsewhere when the economy is better and they can get a new arena deal somewhere (like maybe Las Vegas?) Maybe about the time the free rent stops.
Honetly, in the back of my mind, I'm wondering if Anaheim could turn out to be a temporary fix with plans to move on elsewhere when the economy is better and they can get a new arena deal somewhere (like maybe Las Vegas?) Maybe about the time the free rent stops.
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Read my tv contract thread. They are under contract with comcast for 2 more years. They may or may not have an out clause. If they do not then they would have to pay comcast to get out of it or they are stuck with the same contract for the next 2 years. Also, as pointed out in another thread the greater LA area includes OC in the TV ratings. This is where advertiser dollars come from in the ratings. They are going up against the Lakers, Clippers and LA Kings in the same time slot. The Clippers get $12.5 mil, the Kings currently get $9.5 mil. I doubt they get much more if not less their current deal.
Do all you people really know the details of the negotitions and what the Maloofs want and don't want? I don't believe a thing a newsperson says unless they reveal their sources, Until that's done it's as much of a rumor as I personally coud start. We've already been mislead several times recently by so called experts.
As to Anaheim being just a temporary stop as they go someplace else, you have to rmember that until the last few years, the NBA has been loathe to let teams move much less this hop, skip, and jump theory.
The big question in my mind is whether or not the NBA wants three teams in one market. Once that is started, smaller markets will soon no longer be part of the NBA. Chicago still needs it's second team, right? Where should they steal one from or who gets to abandon their city and go to Chicago?
It's a dangerous precedent.
As to Anaheim being just a temporary stop as they go someplace else, you have to rmember that until the last few years, the NBA has been loathe to let teams move much less this hop, skip, and jump theory.
The big question in my mind is whether or not the NBA wants three teams in one market. Once that is started, smaller markets will soon no longer be part of the NBA. Chicago still needs it's second team, right? Where should they steal one from or who gets to abandon their city and go to Chicago?
It's a dangerous precedent.