Prospect watch 2011
- Thread starter asakkings
- Start date
Let's say Williams is playing a "bigger" pf. (And I think the pf would have to be much bigger to deal with Williams inside, like a younger Tim Duncan). I don't know why you would want him to post up That's when he goes outside and shoots outside shots and drives to the basket over the bigger power forward. Then with small forwards, he's going to kill them inside. The key point about his position is his ability to defend the pf or the sf. From what I've seen he's big enough and athletic enough to guard both, but he has a long ways to go before he's a finished product on defense.
You could be right. But how many times have you seen him play? Just curious. I've been watching him play for over 3 years now, and I think he can be more than that. But its always a crap shoot. Let me put it this way. Last year I really liked Landry Fields, but didn't mention him much because I figured not many people had heard of him. I decided to stick with the more likely players to be drafted. However if you read my threads on college basketball in the NBA fourms I mentioned a lot of lesser known players.
The first time I touted Blake Griffin he was a freshman, and I kid you not, there were people on this fourm that said he was too short. He wasn't athletic. he wasn't explosive. Etc! I wondered to myself just who the hell they were watching. I believe I made the statement in defense of Griffin at the time, that he was a player that did just what was needed to be done. If he needed to be explosive, he was. But he didn't display it all the time. I was then told that if that was true, then he was lazy, or wasn't taking the game seriously all the time. I probably watched him play close to 40 times before he was drafted. Not once! Not twice! But 40 times. But I had people that just casually tuned into one of his games tellinig me how good he was going to be.
I had people that told me Earl Clark was going to be a great player. I thought he had bust written all over him. So far I'm right. Now don't get me wrong. Clark has talent, and maybe in the right situation he'll eventually realize his potential.
I'm not sayinig you can't be fooled one way or the other. And the last thing I ever want to do is put the stamp of finished product on a player when their young. Sometimes it just takes time for a player to realize that this is his one chance at the brass ring. Almost every player you come across has some sort of limitation or hole in his game. But if they excell in one aspect of the game. And I mean excell in ways that very few can, then you can more easily overlook the flaws that player has. When Michael Jordan came into the league he had no outside shot. Neither did LeBron. Wade still doesn't. Karl Monroe had no shot more than 5 feet away from the basket and he was a terrible freethrow shooter. But all these guys excelled in other areas. They could do things on a regular basis that no one else could. And, they eventually corrected the weaknesses in their games.
Now I grant you that you can't correct athleticism. You either have it or you don't. And I think the word athleticism gets somewhat skewed at times. By that, I mean, if someone can jump high, but isn't a fast runner, is he a bad athlete? If someone is quick, but not fast, is he a bad athlete? If someone is a hight jumper and is quick of foot, but lacks good lateral movement, is he a bad athlete? Athleticism comes in different degree's for different people. Their all good athletes, some are just more gifted than others. Timmy Hardaway wasn't the fastest guy up and down the court, but he had a crossover dribble that could freeze anyone. So he never had a problem getting his shot off. Larry Bird wasn't a fast runner and he didn't have great hops. But he was a good defender and rebounder. How the hell did that happen? He had smarts and technique. He made you unconfortable on defense, by making you go right when you wanted to go left. He made you shoot from spots on the floor you didn't want to shoot from. If you were going to be able to beat him off the dribble, he made sure you went the way he wanted you to go.
Players with an exceptional skill, that are determined and have a fire in their belly to be great, almost always succeed. Thats why I choose Casspi over Greene. There are do'ers in life and there are dreamers in life. One lives life through his own actions. The dreamer lives life through the actions of others. Or vicariously! I'm only interested in the do'ers.
The first time I touted Blake Griffin he was a freshman, and I kid you not, there were people on this fourm that said he was too short. He wasn't athletic. he wasn't explosive. Etc! I wondered to myself just who the hell they were watching. I believe I made the statement in defense of Griffin at the time, that he was a player that did just what was needed to be done. If he needed to be explosive, he was. But he didn't display it all the time. I was then told that if that was true, then he was lazy, or wasn't taking the game seriously all the time. I probably watched him play close to 40 times before he was drafted. Not once! Not twice! But 40 times. But I had people that just casually tuned into one of his games tellinig me how good he was going to be.
I had people that told me Earl Clark was going to be a great player. I thought he had bust written all over him. So far I'm right. Now don't get me wrong. Clark has talent, and maybe in the right situation he'll eventually realize his potential.
I'm not sayinig you can't be fooled one way or the other. And the last thing I ever want to do is put the stamp of finished product on a player when their young. Sometimes it just takes time for a player to realize that this is his one chance at the brass ring. Almost every player you come across has some sort of limitation or hole in his game. But if they excell in one aspect of the game. And I mean excell in ways that very few can, then you can more easily overlook the flaws that player has. When Michael Jordan came into the league he had no outside shot. Neither did LeBron. Wade still doesn't. Karl Monroe had no shot more than 5 feet away from the basket and he was a terrible freethrow shooter. But all these guys excelled in other areas. They could do things on a regular basis that no one else could. And, they eventually corrected the weaknesses in their games.
Now I grant you that you can't correct athleticism. You either have it or you don't. And I think the word athleticism gets somewhat skewed at times. By that, I mean, if someone can jump high, but isn't a fast runner, is he a bad athlete? If someone is quick, but not fast, is he a bad athlete? If someone is a hight jumper and is quick of foot, but lacks good lateral movement, is he a bad athlete? Athleticism comes in different degree's for different people. Their all good athletes, some are just more gifted than others. Timmy Hardaway wasn't the fastest guy up and down the court, but he had a crossover dribble that could freeze anyone. So he never had a problem getting his shot off. Larry Bird wasn't a fast runner and he didn't have great hops. But he was a good defender and rebounder. How the hell did that happen? He had smarts and technique. He made you unconfortable on defense, by making you go right when you wanted to go left. He made you shoot from spots on the floor you didn't want to shoot from. If you were going to be able to beat him off the dribble, he made sure you went the way he wanted you to go.
Players with an exceptional skill, that are determined and have a fire in their belly to be great, almost always succeed. Thats why I choose Casspi over Greene. There are do'ers in life and there are dreamers in life. One lives life through his own actions. The dreamer lives life through the actions of others. Or vicariously! I'm only interested in the do'ers.
Assuming the Landry for the PDX first is on the table. Here's an honest question.
Would you rather have Kyrie Irving with our Lotto pick and Carl Landry OR take the Best PF(Sullinger or Jones) with that lottery pick and nab Fredette with the mid-round 1st from Portland.
So
1) Irving&Landry(re-signed of course)
or
2) Sullinger/Joners & Fredette
That's a tough call, but I think go #2 due to the financial aspect of the deal.
Would you rather have Kyrie Irving with our Lotto pick and Carl Landry OR take the Best PF(Sullinger or Jones) with that lottery pick and nab Fredette with the mid-round 1st from Portland.
So
1) Irving&Landry(re-signed of course)
or
2) Sullinger/Joners & Fredette
That's a tough call, but I think go #2 due to the financial aspect of the deal.
I would have to go with #1. We need an elite point guard more than anything else and Irving looks like the real deal. If you watched last nights game especially towards the end when the Lakers really cranked up the defense and attacked are ball handlers, we could not even get in an offensive set. We need a leader, a general on the floor something we do not have on are roster currently.
I'am, and will always be a BPA guy. Thats not to say that Irving isn't the best player available. But whoever is the best player, thats who I take. There's a good chance you'll get yourself in trouble when you start drafting just for need. Now if all the parts seem equal, then fine, take what you need. Memphis felt that they needed a center and drafted Thabeet. It ended up being a huge mistake when you look at who they could have drafted.
As to who is the best player available? Too early to tell, but there are several players that are starting to rise to the top. And thats what makes taking Irving so hard. He's only played three games this year. He played very well in those three games, but its hardly a big enough slice to pass judgement on.
To answer another question. If I feel that Sulinger or T. Jones is the best player available, then yes I would take him and be very happy with Fredette with another lower pick. But then I'm a huge fan of Fredette and admit to being biased. For the same reasons of bias, I would take Kenneth Faried with my second round pick if he's there.. Just love the guy. I think he'll slide into the first round though.
As to who is the best player available? Too early to tell, but there are several players that are starting to rise to the top. And thats what makes taking Irving so hard. He's only played three games this year. He played very well in those three games, but its hardly a big enough slice to pass judgement on.
To answer another question. If I feel that Sulinger or T. Jones is the best player available, then yes I would take him and be very happy with Fredette with another lower pick. But then I'm a huge fan of Fredette and admit to being biased. For the same reasons of bias, I would take Kenneth Faried with my second round pick if he's there.. Just love the guy. I think he'll slide into the first round though.
Let me put it this way. I don't think there are any LeBron James, or Michael Jordan's that just leap out at you. But I think the overall talent is pretty good all the way into the second round. I think there are five or six guys that could end up being stars in the league, and there will probably be someone that no one expected to be a star, that will be. There will probably be more guys taken in the first round this year that have more than one year of college experience, and thus, be more ready to play at the next level. I think there are guys like Tristan Thompson, who down the road, a lot of teams will kick themselves for not taking him.
I'm just watching Jimmer for the first time, I still have the game vs. SDSU on DVR that's yet to be watched. Obviously a very impressive shooter, and to me, there's no doubt that that will translate. The question will have to be about his penetration ability. On one hand, he doesn't have great blow-by ability, or much advanced ball handling skills. On the other hand, there are more open lanes and favorable officiating in the NBA. At this point I'd guess that he can be a exposive scorer off the bench type. I don't know if I see much of a high ceiling for him just yet. While he has a great skill, players like him often fail to fully translate their game from college to NBA. That doesn't mean he will, it's just a note of caution.
I believe in Kyrie Irving. While it obviously would be better to have more of a sample on him, in the few games he played, he was only living up to what was already known about him. You just look at the tools and the maturity, and it's an obvious mix for a potential franchise level PG. Sullinger, Kanter, and Valanciunus are the dark horses for me, because they can all be productive bigs. Jones, while I like, I don't know if you're playing the odds well using a no. 1 pick on a combo forward like him.
Arrrrgh! Day of upsets in college BB. Fredette did all he could to win the game, but didn't get enough help from his teammates. Probably a let down after the big game against SDSU. Fredette ended up with 32 pts on 12 of 26 shooting overall, and 6 of 9 from beyond the arc. He had 7 assists, 4 turnovers, and 3 steals. Despite that BYU goes down to New Mexico. I suspose the Maloofs are happy..
UCONN had a rough day as well losing to Louisville by one point. Not a good day of shooting the ball for Kemba Walker. He had 20 pts, but did it on 7 of 23 shooting, while hitting on just 1 shot in 7 from beyond the arc. His shooting has been off recently, and his 3 pt percentages are starting to drop like a rock. He also had 4 assists and 1 turnover to go with 2 steals. Maybe he's tired. Not the time of the year to start slipping. Hopefully he'll regain his form soon.
Georgetown upset Villanova. Austin Freeman, a 6'3" SG/PG did most of the damage scoring 30 pts on 10 of 19 shooting and 2 of 4 from beyond the arc. He added 6 assists and 1 turnover. Freeman is a senior and is having a very nice year.
UCONN had a rough day as well losing to Louisville by one point. Not a good day of shooting the ball for Kemba Walker. He had 20 pts, but did it on 7 of 23 shooting, while hitting on just 1 shot in 7 from beyond the arc. His shooting has been off recently, and his 3 pt percentages are starting to drop like a rock. He also had 4 assists and 1 turnover to go with 2 steals. Maybe he's tired. Not the time of the year to start slipping. Hopefully he'll regain his form soon.
Georgetown upset Villanova. Austin Freeman, a 6'3" SG/PG did most of the damage scoring 30 pts on 10 of 19 shooting and 2 of 4 from beyond the arc. He added 6 assists and 1 turnover. Freeman is a senior and is having a very nice year.
I like Irving a lot. I just wish I could have seen more of him. I'm assuming that he'll be healthy by the time of the workouts and the combine. I'll admit that he would be hard to pass up. With Jones, it depends on which Jones your talking about. I'm assuming Terrence. I like Terrence a lot. He plays with attitude and he's very skilled. I see him as a SF and not a Combo forward. He's a great athlete with explosive leaping ability at times. I know he has a weird looking shot, but there have been lots of great players that weren't good outside shooters when they came into the league, and if you passed on them because of it, you were kicking yourself later. But hey, its always a crap shoot to some extent.
If you watch him enough, you'll notice what a great crossover dribble he has. I think he's a better ballhandler than your giving him credit for. Although I admit he has a tendecy to drive into traffic at times and turn the ball over. But if you put it into the context of he's the man on his team and is expected to work a miracle every night, it puts his decision making in a slightly different light. He has a lightning quick release. I actually think he'll be a better player in the NBA where he won't be the focus of the other teams defense like he is now. He makes some shots in the game you haven't watched that just make you wonder how in the hell did he do that.
As a point guard he's almost self taught. I can see the improvement from last year. His decision making is better, and seldom do his turnovers come from his passing, but more from dribbling where he shouldn't. Anyway, let me know what you think after you watch the SDSU game.. I value your opinion...
As a point guard he's almost self taught. I can see the improvement from last year. His decision making is better, and seldom do his turnovers come from his passing, but more from dribbling where he shouldn't. Anyway, let me know what you think after you watch the SDSU game.. I value your opinion...
Well you might be a hard guy to impress, but then I don't know which games you watched last year. Anyway, try watching him this year. You always have to watch a player more than a couple of times, since you may just catch his bad games, or just his good games. However Fredette has more good one's and bad one's. In his last five games he's laid 32 pts on New Mexico today. 43 pt's on San Diego St U. 42 pts on Colorado St. 21 pts on TCU. and 47 pts on Utah. And he's done it while shooting around 42% from beyond the arc while shooting 48.2% overall. When you watch him play you'll notice that the three pt line is immaterial to him. Most of the time he shoots the ball from out there, he's 2 to 3 feet behind the line. Anyway here are his overall stats for his career at BYU along with this seasons game log.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/1332605/jimmer-fredette
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/1332605/jimmer-fredette
I'm certainly not saying that he's a poor ball handler or anything. He just doesn't seem to have advanced PG level ball handling skills, more 1-on-1 SG level skills. If I had to make a comparison based on what I've read, and the little bit of what I've seen, I'd say he's a less athletic Ben Gordon. Unless he surprises with his playmaking skills, I see his ceiling as a 6th man scorer type. The 1st or 2nd option of a 2nd unit. He's definitely someone you can use in a pinch at the end of games.
You could be right. There are no guarantees. But even if he was just a sixth man off the bench that could come in, handle the ball, and put up some quick points, it would be a nice piece to have. We'll find out how athletic he is to some degree at the combine. As far as PG skills go, he was a SG when he was recruited, and because he handled the ball so much, he decided to hone whatever PG skills he had. And there's no doubt he's improved greatly in that area. No! He'll never be Chris Paul, but he's a very good passer, and a safe passer. He can't handle the ball like Tyreke, but he would put Kevin Martin to shame by a large margin.
When you watch him play, you have to remind yourself that the other teams defense is totally focused on him. Their best defender is going to guard him and he's constantly doubled when possible. In the last game against New Mexico they had a very athletic 6'7" player guarding him. And he did make life a little miserable for Fredette. But when the smoke cleared, Fredette still dropped 32 pts on him and still shot at a fairly high percentage whild doing it. A couple of those 3 pointers that Fredette hit were from at least 5 feet behind the 3pt line. Hey, were probably not going to draft him anyway. But he's sure fun to watch. As a matter of fact, the two players I have the most fun watching are Derrick Williams and Jimmer Fredette. No offense to anyone else.
When you watch him play, you have to remind yourself that the other teams defense is totally focused on him. Their best defender is going to guard him and he's constantly doubled when possible. In the last game against New Mexico they had a very athletic 6'7" player guarding him. And he did make life a little miserable for Fredette. But when the smoke cleared, Fredette still dropped 32 pts on him and still shot at a fairly high percentage whild doing it. A couple of those 3 pointers that Fredette hit were from at least 5 feet behind the 3pt line. Hey, were probably not going to draft him anyway. But he's sure fun to watch. As a matter of fact, the two players I have the most fun watching are Derrick Williams and Jimmer Fredette. No offense to anyone else.
As a long time Arizona fan its nice to see a Wildcat getting such positive praise after a few years in the wilderness. I'd love to get Williams in Sac but I am hoping he will stick around UA for one more year if only because of fear of the lockout. I saw a recent facebook or tweet of his says his only thoughts right now are of getting a National Championship. Gotta love his attitude, especially since last year the hype seemed to be around a few of the other guys Miller was able to bring in at the last second and now he is at the head of the class. Seems like a guy that will just keep working once he gets to the next level.
Yeah, I really like Williams. I'm still not sure of his exact position, but I'm not sure it matters. Unfortunately there are a lot of other people that like him as well. As for entering the draft or not. You gave on side of the arguement for not entering. And by the time of the draft, its possilbe that no one will yet know for sure whether there will be a lockout or not. The other side of the arguement for entering the draft is that this is probably the last year that the top draft picks will earn this much money and have as many guaranteed years. Since one of the things the owners want, is to reduce the salaries of first year players and the length of years guaranteed.
So Williams, and all the other players eligable to return to college will have a hard decision to make. Especially those expected to go high in the draft. They could be throwing away a couple of million dollars by not entering.
So Williams, and all the other players eligable to return to college will have a hard decision to make. Especially those expected to go high in the draft. They could be throwing away a couple of million dollars by not entering.
Since I've been critical of Harrison Barnes this year, I think I have to give him some kudo's for finally looking like the the player we all expected him to be. Granted it was against North Carolina St., who looked like a highschool basketball team. A poorly coached highschool team. But a good game is a good game. He finally showed some aggression. He had 25 pts on 10 of 16 shooting and 3 for 7 from beyond the arc. It was far from a perfect game, but it was obvious that he wanted the ball. Larry Drew Jr. stinks as a PG by the way. Barnes really got hot in the second half, and took better shots in the second half as well.
I was also impressed with his defense. He appears to have good lateral movement. He stayed in front of his man well and was good at denying the ball.
Sidney Lowe is the coach of North Carolina St. and he should be fired. I can't remember when I've seen a school from a major conference look that poorly coached. They were absolutely pathetic.
I was also impressed with his defense. He appears to have good lateral movement. He stayed in front of his man well and was good at denying the ball.
Sidney Lowe is the coach of North Carolina St. and he should be fired. I can't remember when I've seen a school from a major conference look that poorly coached. They were absolutely pathetic.
10 Players the Sacramento Kings Should Target
This looks like a particularly good list to me. The commentary is spot-on (not to mention the comment he makes about Quincy Douby is hilarious).
This looks like a particularly good list to me. The commentary is spot-on (not to mention the comment he makes about Quincy Douby is hilarious).
Baja, could you speak a bit more on Terrance Jones? Just from reading scouting reports on the different draft sites, he seems like he could be an ideal fit for us if we wind up in the 3-6 range and he's available. He's typically described as a good defender who can also shoot the NBA 3 and create a bit. Though his dribbling skills seem to be more straight line than a true shot creator. On our team though with Cousins and Reke, that sounds like a pretty favorable description for our needs.
What are your thoughts from watching him? Is that an accurate assessment? Could he play 2 or 3?
What are your thoughts from watching him? Is that an accurate assessment? Could he play 2 or 3?
Hmmm! Douby > Walker! A bit of a stretch me thinks.. Douby, who was picked around # 22 or so, and was a SG at Rutgers, does not compare to Walker who will probably be picked in the top ten and is a player with PG skills and instincts, even if he chooses not to use them from time to time. There is only one catagory that Douby excelled over Walker. He was 2 inches taller.