Please Don't Let Kahn Outdo Us: An OJ Mayo Discussion

[Dr. Spaceman]

Reports surfaced today (http://bit.ly/g0vJop) that OJ Mayo is unhappy with his role in Memphis and that Minnesota may be maneuvering to acquire him.

We can't let this happen. Two of the worst GMs in the NBA doing business together to swap young talent? We need to step in and make sure none of that talent goes to waste (although it's kind of hard to argue that our environment is the most winning and cheerful at the moment ).

Looking at Memphis' salary situation (http://bit.ly/gEw84y), it's a little hard to gauge how much our trade offerings might appeal, though. Their salary situation isn't in bad shape with ZBo's huge contract coming off the books after this season. Beyond that, their most damaging long term contract is (aside from Rudy Gay's untradeable ridicudeal) belongs to Hasheem Thabeet, whose value to Memphis is unclear at this point. So our greatest asset (our cap space to bring in salary) becomes a little iffy in potential trade talks.

So considering that, what might we offer in a reasonable trade? Would a future first rounder be too valuable (this year's first rounder should be off-limits, for it is far too valuable to our development now, considering how the season has gone)?

Would a proposal of Landry + Beno or Garcia + the future (2012 perhaps) first round pick for Mayo and Thabeet get things going, in your opinion?

Landry's expiring offers more savings to Memphis and a prominent back up big man for a team that doesn't have one at the moment, while Beno would offer a stabilizing hand at the PG position for them, either behind Conley or ahead of him. If you swap in Cisco for Beno, Memphis acquires a veteran presence for their young team while replacing the outgoing Mayo and giving Xavier Henry some time to develop into the SG role.

The benefits of OJ Mayo for the Kings have been stated before -- he is a young talent with good ball-handling skills with a propensity for play-making abilities, though he is not a true PG. He offers good size and athleticism for the position at 6'4", allowing him and Tyreke to make switches on defense seamlessly for many opposing matchups. He is a good perimeter shooter (shooting between 38 and 39% from 3-point land for his career and this season as well) with the ability to create off the dribble as well. Simply put, he has a chance to come in to this team and become a legitimate third star. From that point on, you can just focus on surrounding that core of Reke, Cousins and Mayo with the right role-players and coaches (whoever they may be).

Let's hear some thoughts on this move (and I'll be praying to Cthulu tonight that Petrie is reading this ).

 

[TheRaven]

Mayo would be a nice pickup, but I don't have a good feeling for what Memphis would be asking for in return. Maybe something centered around Landry and a top-5 protected 2012 first would work for them? I don't know if that is too little or too much relative to what Minnesota may be offering, but it is certainly worth checking in with them to see what sort of offer they are looking for.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

i'm not high on mayo. hes undersized and doesn't play any d.

 

[Gary]

Kahn is putting together a nice little team there. If he gets Mayo? ugh... Mayo, Love, Johnson and Beasley? Those are four building blocks right there. Especially the way that Beasley has been playing this year..

 

[kingsboi]

From a report I saw, Grizz are asking for WAY too much for Mayo. I saw that Chicago is trying to get him but they were asking for something like Taj Gibson, James Johnson, Omir Asik & a 1st round pick.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

Kahn is putting together a nice little team there. If he gets Mayo? ugh... Mayo, Love, Johnson and Beasley? Those are four building blocks right there. Especially the way that Beasley has been playing this year..

That would be five building blocks. I can't believe you would discount Darko like that.




...the smiley is unneeded, yeah?

 

[Sptsjunkie]

From a report I saw, Grizz are asking for WAY too much for Mayo. I saw that Chicago is trying to get him but they were asking for something like Taj Gibson, James Johnson, Omir Asik & a 1st round pick.

That doesn't sound too bad. A lot of small assets, but Gibson is a solid bench player, Johnson has some upside but is a solid starter at best, and Asik has bench center written all over him. Even the first round pick would be low with the Bulls record. This deal seems to make sense for the Bulls too. Mayo would be a nice fit next to Rose. Gives them a great outside shooter in their starting lineup and he plays decent defense too. At least more than Korver.

 

[Sarunas]

i'm not high on mayo. hes undersized and doesn't play any d.

You must not have seen him play very many times. Lets hope our front office doesn't make assumptions like that. Aaron Brooks is undersized and doesn't play any D if we want to name people who fit into that category.

 

[TTown Kings]

That would be five building blocks. I can't believe you would discount Darko like that.




...the smiley is unneeded, yeah?

not to mention the great Ricky Rubio, how dare you forget him...

 

[Big Cuz 15]

You must not have seen him play very many times. Lets hope our front office doesn't make assumptions like that. Aaron Brooks is undersized and doesn't play any D if we want to name people who fit into that category.

i haven't seen him much. i've watched a few of the grizz games and didn't come out impressed.

 

[bajaden]

You lost me when you included Thabeet. He's shown little progress so far, which doesn't surprise me, and we really don't need another long term project. I like Mayo, but your giving up way too much for a player that at the moment isn't going to accomplish that much more than Beno.

Mayo is averaging 13.0 ppg on 41% shooting overall and 38.4% from 3pt range. He's averaging 1.8 assists to 1.5 turnovers a game.

Beno is averaging 13.4 ppg on 49.2% shooting overall and 32.5% from 3pt range. He's averaging 4.4 assists to 1.6 turnovers a game. I might add that Beno averaged around 38% from beyond the mark last year and is around 37% for his career. Both are of similar height, and both play similar defense.

I like Mayo, but I wouldn't give up the bank to get him.

 

[Dreadnought]

I'm willing to give up anything aside from 1st round draft picks, Tyreke, and DMC for Mayo.

 

[Gary]

That would be five building blocks. I can't believe you would discount Darko like that.




...the smiley is unneeded, yeah?

heheh nah... I know what ya meant

 

[Sarunas]

i haven't seen him much. i've watched a few of the grizz games and didn't come out impressed.

In no way do I think he is the solution to all our problems, but I think you need to watch more than just a few games of his before making a claim that hes undersized and poor defensively. He has more size than Beno as a backcourt partner with Reke, and actually is a very solid on-ball defender, Memphis' best besides Gay on a team which averages the most steals per game in the NBA.

But realistically sounds more likely he would end up in Chicago before he'd ever land in Sacramento, although if I'm Memphis I think I'm more intrigued by our trade chips rather than Taj Gibson, James Johnson and Asik. Not just based on talent but for cap room purposes after giving Gay/Conley a ton of cash, and will likely need to do the same with Z-bo this summer.

 

[Tetsujin]

That would be five building blocks. I can't believe you would discount Darko like that.




...the smiley is unneeded, yeah?

You're forgetting about the supergenius talent that is Fesenko as well.

 

[Larry David]

But realistically sounds more likely he would end up in Chicago before he'd ever land in Sacramento,

While Noah is out, the Bulls aren't going to move Gibson. After Noah is back at full speed, Gibson has been very good this year. He's a quick post defender and Thibodaux's defense is based upon his 4s and 5s covering a lot of ground. The two spot is an issue for the Bulls, but with Gibson looking good and Boozer's history of injury ... I would look for a lesser and cheaper shooter before I gave up Gibson.

 

[bajaden]

While Noah is out, the Bulls aren't going to move Gibson. After Noah is back at full speed, Gibson has been very good this year. He's a quick post defender and Thibodaux's defense is based upon his 4s and 5s covering a lot of ground. The two spot is an issue for the Bulls, but with Gibson looking good and Boozer's history of injury ... I would look for a lesser and cheaper shooter before I gave up Gibson.

I think the Bulls need to be patient. They have a young team, and they're in good position to fill some needs in the next offseason after the new CBA. I don't want to pop their balloon, but I doubt they're going to win an NBA championship this year. So I see no point in giving up good talent for something they can aquire in the offseason for a lot less.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

You're forgetting about the supergenius talent that is Fesenko as well.

Kahn is so brilliant, we're going to give him credit for players that aren't even on his team!

 

[Big Cuz 15]

In no way do I think he is the solution to all our problems, but I think you need to watch more than just a few games of his before making a claim that hes undersized and poor defensively. He has more size than Beno as a backcourt partner with Reke, and actually is a very solid on-ball defender, Memphis' best besides Gay on a team which averages the most steals per game in the NBA.

But realistically sounds more likely he would end up in Chicago before he'd ever land in Sacramento, although if I'm Memphis I think I'm more intrigued by our trade chips rather than Taj Gibson, James Johnson and Asik. Not just based on talent but for cap room purposes after giving Gay/Conley a ton of cash, and will likely need to do the same with Z-bo this summer.

derrick rose is listed at like 6'3, it looks like mayo is taller than him. he would be an upgrade over beno but as far as how much. i don't think too much.

 

[Dr. Spaceman]

You lost me when you included Thabeet. He's shown little progress so far, which doesn't surprise me, and we really don't need another long term project. I like Mayo, but your giving up way too much for a player that at the moment isn't going to accomplish that much more than Beno.

Mayo is averaging 13.0 ppg on 41% shooting overall and 38.4% from 3pt range. He's averaging 1.8 assists to 1.5 turnovers a game.

Beno is averaging 13.4 ppg on 49.2% shooting overall and 32.5% from 3pt range. He's averaging 4.4 assists to 1.6 turnovers a game. I might add that Beno averaged around 38% from beyond the mark last year and is around 37% for his career. Both are of similar height, and both play similar defense.

I like Mayo, but I wouldn't give up the bank to get him.

Thabeet was included primarily for his contract, which runs a few more years. Giving them Landry (and his expiring) in return would wipe that salary off the books for them and allow them to go in another direction in the offseason (if we're not all locked out). I'm fully aware of Thabeet's bust status. After that, the Kings could permaban him to the D-League in Reno, for all I care. We have a more promising version of Thabeet in Whiteside already, so I'd look at his inclusion in the trade as "Thabeet's contract" more than "Thabeet the prospect."

As far as the Beno and Mayo comparison goes, Mayo is a far more effective and athletic defender than Beno is. And as you said, he's a more effective three point shooter as well, which is a major need on this team. Is there room for a improvement? No question at all that he's got a long way to go as a player. But that's another difference between the two players: one is 28 and the other is just 23 years old. Not saying Beno is old, but Mayo is still young and considering his bench status with Memphis, he's not the player he should be yet. So it becomes a question of: do you think Mayo can become something more? None of us are fortune-tellers, so it's going to be subjective. I fall in the camp that believes that he can evolve into an important third option on a good team.

I don't propose that we break the bank for him, but I guess the main issue is whether you consider a future first round pick (2012 and beyond) breaking the bank in this case. That seems like it'd be the most valuable piece in a trade between the Kings and Grizzlies. I think that with the pieces we have now growing together and the high pick that we'll be adding in this year's draft, we'll be an improved enough team where someone like OJ Mayo would be more valuable to us than what could possibly be a mid-round pick in 2012. Again, not a fortune-teller though, so it is a gamble. One that I personally would take when I consider the potential of the move.

 

[Tetsujin]

Kahn is so brilliant, we're going to give him credit for players that aren't even on his team!

Oh shoot, I meant Pekovich. Of course, I'm still disappointed they got rid of Aussie Shaq so you must excuse me.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think Mayo can be a decent sidekick to Evans. He can guard 1's and Evans can guard two's, Mayo can play off the ball, shoot, and handle the ball when he needs to.

 

[WALTtheWIZ]

kahn

i understand the kahn hate, i get all that. his bad moves have been hit upon numerous times- rubio, flynn, sessions, moving jefferson for cheap, etc.

but hes put together a string of good moves lately- he came up on two #2 picks in the draft for practically nothing. Beasley has really turned things around this year and looks like the scorer and decent undersized rebounder everyone thought he would become early in his career. Darko...while overpaid, is provifing some useful minutes. He is a good shot blocker, doesnt rebound well but he fits in nicely with love.

Wesley johnson looks to be as good as advertised and has played and shot the ball
well since moving into the starting lineup

He got ridnour at a good price and he is now being coveted by other teams around the league. he could be moved for another piece and to make way for rubio and flynn.

Their future core of love, beasley, johnson...and rubio + the future firsts they got from utah isnt anything to laugh at.

Most importantly, they have a coach in place that is doing wonders for player development when compared to our coach. His players are improving and they have some sort of promising future based on their young guys production.

**hate to say it, but if rubio is the play maker we are led to believe, he should be licking his chops to run with johnson, beasley and love**

Would i say kahn is a good gm? no, but he doesnt seem nearly as bad as i once thought
Do i think the kings would be better off with him as our guy? no
Has he been active and showed progress through his roster? sort of
Does he deserve a bit of slack for how much hes gotten trashed on? i think so

 

[rainmaker]

So Mayo and Allen got in a fistfight last night over a card game, and reports say Mayo was the instigator. There already are reports about him being unhappy with his role.

I really want to go after him, and given things seem to be heading south with him and the organization, it might be getting to the point where they don't have a choice but to move him, and if they don't, won't get equal value in return. As soon as teams know they have to move him, they won't get the same offers.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70951/20110105/mayo_allen_fight_over_card_game/

 

[Sarunas]

So Mayo and Allen got in a fistfight last night over a card game, and reports say Mayo was the instigator. There already are reports about him being unhappy with his role.

I really want to go after him, and given things seem to be heading south with him and the organization, it might be getting to the point where they don't have a choice but to move him, and if they don't, won't get equal value in return. As soon as teams know they have to move him, they won't get the same offers.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/70951/20110105/mayo_allen_fight_over_card_game/

Here's another link for those who want to read more: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5990552

I like how Mayo would fit, but after this I am skeptical on his personality.

I know it is once incident, but he has had a history of a very short fuse prior to his NBA career. He was said to have broken Daniel Hackett's jaw in a preseason practice at USC. Obviously, Tim Floyd and Hackett covered up, but you have to think something came about between the two, if rumors came from the practice saying Mayo punched him. I also have a friend who was around him while on the high school all-star circuit, and saw him come close to fighting Mike Beasley on their bus heading to a game.

I know these are pretty minor, hearsay incidents, but for some reason this last incident has turned me off of him and validated the claims of his temperamental behavior. I was very high on him beforehand.

 

[boffacheerios]

I like the mean streak .i say it's about time someone beat up that little turd beasley, the kid is a punk. i hope he tries to mess with demarcus the next time we play and gets his clock cleaned. there are certain players around the league who i just can't stand. the headliners are Michael Beasley and JR Smith. Now, with that said, we already have a kind of 1980's raiders bad boys theme going, so it can't hurt to keep it coming. this isn't to say that i don't think we should look into personalities, but the incidents that involved mayo seem pretty minor and this is really the first we've heard of it, over 2 years into Mayo's career. so i say take a chance on him.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

He already outdid us in the getting Beasley for a pack of chewing gum discussion so I fully expect him to outdo us in the Mayo discussion, too. Kahn>Petrie, Taylor>Maloofs.

 

[TheWileyVet]

mayo would be SWEET

 

[Sluggah]

The dudes been declining in nearly all aspects of his game since his rookie year and at times this year has looked flat out awful. I don't think he's going to improve us as much as people seem to think.

Now granger on the other hand....

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The dudes been declining in nearly all aspects of his game since his rookie year and at times this year has looked flat out awful. I don't think he's going to improve us as much as people seem to think.

Now granger on the other hand....

...has been declining in nearly all aspects of his game since the '08-'09 season, the same standard you are holding Mayo to. To wit:

OJ Mayo: FG% -.024; 3PT% -.012; FT% -.129; Reb/36 -0.3; Ast/36 -0.6; Stl/36 +0.2; Blk/36 +0.3; TO/36 -0.8; Pts/36 -1.4; PER -1.4; WS/48 +.008
Granger: FG% -.029; 3PT% -.034; FT% -.055; Reb/36 +0.3; Ast/36 -0.2; Stl/36 +0.2; Blk/36 -0.5; TO/36 +0.3; Pts/36 -5.3; PER -5.6; WS/48 -.068

While Mayo is 23, Granger is 27, and probably has less on his clock, so to speak. And he's paid a lot more. I'm just saying that before anyone goes gung-ho for Granger, they should probably look at the fact that he's been declining - in most cases as badly or worse than Mayo (Mayo declined more in FT% and Ast, Granger has improved slightly in Reb). '08-'09 Granger was a great player. '10-'11 Granger has not yet shown himself to be that player, and his declining numbers give me as much pause, if not more, than Mayo's.