I really hope GP is serious about not looking for any trades...

K

Kingstime

Bench
#1
#1
Think back to the teams after CWebb was traded how mediocre they were trying to patch in a piece here or there to keep us in the hunt for the bottom couple of seeds in the playoffs. I remember not even caring to read box scores as long as Bibby, Miller, Salmons, Mobley, etc. were all here chucking up shots and sulking. What we have dealt with this season is a good thing in my eyes.

I still stand by the fact that this team has enough talent to win 30+ games and grow to get better in due time. This is the long awaited rebuild we all asked for years ago, I really believe if this team isn't stupidly gutted via a dumb trade of a youngin that the spark will come at some point this season. I'm glad GP came out and said we are not looking for any trades, let these young bucks figure this out and get their crap together.

I am confident that they will get embarrassed enough that these guys will fix whatever is going on behind the scenes and make A LITTLE something of their 10-11' season.
 
JJ22L

JJ22L

Starter
#3
#3
Hmm. Part of me tends to agree with your statement. Usually I am on board with the "heads must roll and they must roll now" mentality, but now I am not too sure. I still believe this team has the talent to be something. Whether it be Tyreke or DMC, the capacity is there.

We are losing focus on what is actually going on here. Our "stars" effectively just graduated high school. HIGH SCHOOL. They are barely even 20. I say let them get their asses kicked for a while. It'll do them some good. They are used to dominating at their respective levels (high school and college), let's see if this experience can "grow some hair on their chest" as my family calls it. Are they wolves or are they sheep (Training Day was a good movie)?

At that, from the sounds of things, its everyone's fault. What's our plan? Fire everyone? Yea, that's brilliant. At SOME point there has to be some damn accountability. We can't just keep shipping people in and shipping people out. Someone needs to man up.

Now, that being said, the part of me that disagrees is the part that wants to keep this team in Sacramento. That's where all rationality is thrown out of the window and I side with the "now now now" camp. If this team wins <10 games, we won't even be fortunate enough to have a team to log-on and complain about this time next year (assuming no lock out).
 
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Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#4
#4
JJ22L said:
Hmm. Part of me tends to agree with your statement. Usually I am on board with the "heads must roll and they must roll now" mentality, but now I am not too sure. I still believe this team has the talent to be something. Whether it be Tyreke or DMC, the capacity is there.

We are losing focus on what is actually going on here. Our "stars" effectively just graduated high school. HIGH SCHOOL. They are barely even 20. I say let them get their asses kicked for a while. It'll do them some good. They are used to dominating at their respective levels (high school and college), let's see if this experience can "grow some hair on their chest" as my family calls it. Are they wolves or are they sheep (Training Day was a good movie)?

At that, from the sounds of things, its everyone's fault. What's our plan? Fire everyone? Yea, that's brilliant. At SOME point there has to be some damn accountability. We can't just keep shipping people in and shipping people out. Someone needs to man up.

Now, that being said, the part of me that disagrees is the part that wants to keep this team in Sacramento. That's where all rationality is thrown out of the window and I side with the "now now now" camp. If this team wins <10 games, we won't even be fortunate enough to have a team to log-on and complain about this time next year (assuming no lock out).
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We aren't going to win < 10 games. That's the latest silly/alarmist thing to be bandies about, but that's not even remtoely possible barring a major rash of injuries. Now if this team does not pull its head otu it could put <20 within danger though. Still, more likely sooner or later they wake up.
 
A

Asaf

Starter
#5
#5
Bricklayer said:
We aren't going to win < 10 games. That's the latest silly/alarmist thing to be bandies about, but that's not even remtoely possible barring a major rash of injuries. Now if this team does not pull its head otu it could put <20 within danger though. Still, more likely sooner or later they wake up.
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Unless something major happens to turn things around, I would say there is a real danger of finishing this seasons with less than 10 wins. This team doesn't look like a team that can beat any NBA team at this point. In fact, I watch a lot of Euroleague, and I can safely say (and this is not an exaggeration) that the Kings wouldn't be a top-8 team in the Euroleague right now. Not in terms of individual talent, of course. In my opinion, this team has enough talent to be a 30+ win team, even approaching 40, in the NBA. But the way they look as a team, I could name at least 8 European teams that are simply better than the Kings right now.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#6
#6
Petrie's not even that good of a GM, the only reason he ever even looked good was because of Webber and Adelman. No playoffs in the last 4 years, about to have 3 seasons in a row with less than 30 wins, no shooters on this team, we friggin suck and it's his fault. Yeah you can rebuild but the majority of well rebuilt teams include veterans that can teach younger guys how to win. Petrie's a moron.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#7
#7
BMiller52 said:
Yeah you can rebuild but the majority of well rebuilt teams include veterans that can teach younger guys how to win.
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No, they really don't. Not anymore than we have with Beno/Cisco/Landry/Daly and even Wright there. All 5 of those guys have been on playoff squads. Think Beno even has a couple of rings actually. Even Darnell was practice squading with a 60+ win team last year.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#8
#8
The past situation you just brought up has little comparison to now. What we have now is if we had brought in Webber, Peja and JWill that post-lockout year without a Vlade to provide leadership.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#9
#9
Asaf said:
Unless something major happens to turn things around, I would say there is a real danger of finishing this seasons with less than 10 wins. This team doesn't look like a team that can beat any NBA team at this point. In fact, I watch a lot of Euroleague, and I can safely say (and this is not an exaggeration) that the Kings wouldn't be a top-8 team in the Euroleague right now. Not in terms of individual talent, of course. In my opinion, this team has enough talent to be a 30+ win team, even approaching 40, in the NBA. But the way they look as a team, I could name at least 8 European teams that are simply better than the Kings right now.
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People really need to get a grip. The team is playing like a dog's rear end right now. That is not the same as saying that it is the worst team in the history of the NBA. That's just histrionics at that point.
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#10
#10
BMiller52 said:
Petrie's not even that good of a GM, the only reason he ever even looked good was because of Webber and Adelman. No playoffs in the last 4 years, about to have 3 seasons in a row with less than 30 wins, no shooters on this team, we friggin suck and it's his fault. Yeah you can rebuild but the majority of well rebuilt teams include veterans that can teach younger guys how to win. Petrie's a moron.
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This team will win a couple a games in a row and he'll be a genius again :rolleyes:
 
K

Kingstime

Bench
#11
#11
Gabriel said:
I hope you are not surprised that you have no replies in this thread...
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Haha replies in this thread are meaningless I just don't get what type of magic trade or anything that would stop the hysteria going on around here. This team has to fix itself and I believe the ship will get righted enough to get atleast 20 wins. That's all I wanted to get across with this post and also that the Kings have looked much worse to me than they do now, I watch these games hoping one game they'll snap out of it based off the POTENTIAL most of these kids have. It just sucks that the whole Arena issue is looming, if that wasnt a problem then this forum would be alot less hysterical and its a shame.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#13
#13
Kingstime said:
Haha replies in this thread are meaningless I just don't get what type of magic trade or anything that would stop the hysteria going on around here. This team has to fix itself and I believe the ship will get righted enough to get atleast 20 wins. That's all I wanted to get across with this post and also that the Kings have looked much worse to me than they do now, I watch these games hoping one game they'll snap out of it based off the POTENTIAL most of these kids have. It just sucks that the whole Arena issue is looming, if that wasnt a problem then this forum would be alot less hysterical and its a shame.
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LOL People don't want to show up to see a team that is pathetic as this garbage. It's bad when your team is such losers that you're embarrassed to wear their stuff in public. This team is pathetic and all of our young players are getting redundant at this point because we have so many of them that not all of them even get to play. They have nobody to teach them how to win and nobody to teach them how to work harder or show them the ropes and what they're doing wrong. There's no polished players who are great at defense or shooting on this team. You don't see what a trade could do to help? That's just because you want to pretend all our young players are the 2nd coming of MJ and PIppen and not the reality that these young guys are in over their head and can't all grow together or do it by themselves. Teams rarely fix themselves. Either the talent does not match, the team is not talented enough, or they're not getting the right information from a coach.
 
A

Asaf

Starter
#14
#14
Bricklayer said:
People really need to get a grip. The team is playing like a dog's rear end right now. That is not the same as saying that it is the worst team in the history of the NBA. That's just histrionics at that point.
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I'm certainly not an NBA historion so I can't say if we are the worst team in NBA history. I even don't think that records tell the whole story. But what I can tell is that this team seems to have given up on all hope of winning games this season. Maybe they are not trying, hoping Westphal would eventually get fired, I don't know.

I am also not one to panic. Honestly, the way that I see it, there is no difference between being a 12-win team to being a 36-win team. Both are records of bad teams. What I do look for in a bad team is some kind of direction and following of a path that eventually leads it to becoming a good and competitive team. I don't think anyone can see it in this years' kings. I do think we have the talent to become a good team one day, with the addition of a couple of proven veterans that will put us over the top, but the lack of coaching and disconnect between the players and the coach is preventing us from moving towards that better future.

But to get back to my previous point, New-Jersey only managed to make it to 12 wins last year due to wins in the seasons' garbage time and competition between the bad teams for the best-tanking-job title. This year, so far we are looking much much worse than New Jersey ever did last year. I hope that changes, but I'm not goin to hold my breath.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#15
#15
Bricklayer said:
No, they really don't. Not anymore than we have with Beno/Cisco/Landry/Daly and even Wright there. All 5 of those guys have been on playoff squads. Think Beno even has a couple of rings actually. Even Darnell was practice squading with a 60+ win team last year.
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Dude even on our own Kings team, that had Vlade Divac. The Portland Trailblazers brought in Andre Miller and some other guys. The Lakers didn't get better until they brought in a veteran 2nd star. The Celtics didn't get better until they dumped their youth for more stars. The Jazz brought in Boozer to go with AK47 and Deron Williams. The Suns brought on Steve Nash before they won any games. There are more examples but that's just a few of them.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#16
#16
Heuge said:
It's amazing how Petrie still has a job. He has done so poorly for so long now.
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Agreed. Plenty of other GMs have rebuilt or turned things around in 2-3 years. This is taking Geoff 5+ years now. This will be the 5th year with no playoffs I believe. That is PATHETIC.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#17
#17
I do want to see a trade by the deadline, I can't lie. Not just any mediocre player, hopefully a player that can do one of either score, hit three's or play really good defense and do other things that help a team win. Whether that will happen remains to be seen. As for the talent on this team, I agree, it's not bad enough for them to not even get past 10-15 wins. It's obvious though, this team needs more talent one way or the other, we need athleticism in the worst way. We need players who have high IQ's and are willing to scrap, hustle & do the dirty work. I'm willing to wait though a couple of months to see where we are at and see if any significant improvement has been made by playing together and getting the feel for losing and losing a lot. It seems none of our players really have any pride for losing and don't care to show it too much.
 
JJ22L

JJ22L

Starter
#18
#18
Bricklayer said:
We aren't going to win < 10 games. That's the latest silly/alarmist thing to be bandies about, but that's not even remtoely possible barring a major rash of injuries. Now if this team does not pull its head otu it could put <20 within danger though. Still, more likely sooner or later they wake up.
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Hence the use of the word "if" to preface my comment.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#19
#19
BMiller52 said:
Agreed. Plenty of other GMs have rebuilt or turned things around in 2-3 years. This is taking Geoff 5+ years now. This will be the 5th year with no playoffs I believe. That is PATHETIC.
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a) this rebuild only started 2 years ago. The years before that were a pathetic attempt to try to cling to a #8 seed every season. That of course goes into the ole ledger as a stupid decision, but it does not go inot the ledger as this rebuild taking unusuallylong. Once the decision was finally made somewhere in that 17 win season, its gone really rpetty quickly. Almost all the vets are gone, we've drafted two potential stars and half a dozen young players with potential. We've celared the cap room to chase a free agent. Everything has fallen in place right on schedule.

And BTW, the teams that can go through rebuilds wiht minimal disruptions in their playoff contention are normally the ones with holdover stars like Wade. Long LONG waits are not uncommmon for the rest. We're 2 years into ours -- 2 years since we actually started trying to rebuild that is. If we had just met expectations here and gone on to win 35ish games, it would have been right on scehdule. Make the playoffs or just miss the next year, and the actual rebuild part of the playoffless years would have been about 3 years. Nothing has been done wrong tactically here. But the results are problematic at the moment. This too shall pass though. Always does. Either Tyreke wil take off and we'll pull out, or Westphal will be canned and the next coach my pull us out, or we'll make a major trade and that may pull us out, or whatever. All this panic is just sad. People quit using their heads.
 
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P

pshn80

Starter
#21
#21
I agree. let's wait until the season's over, assess what we've got, pick and choose from our lot, make some moves, invest a little more money both on our guys and a new face or two. In the meantime follow our guys. It would an amazing accomplishment if the team could play this bad on through out the remainder of the season. So, let's see if we can improve a little tonight. Let's try looking good while losing. That's it , a step at a time.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#22
#22
LPKingsFan said:
This team will win a couple a games in a row and he'll be a genius again :rolleyes:
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He'll be lucky!

:p

Anyways: People I want to keep: JT, Reke, Cuz, Whiteside, Greene, Om, Dally

People I wouldnt mind seeing shipped out (if the price is right): Everybody else, with one of Greene or Omri if we HAVE to (but not both!).

We have (roughly) 30 win talent. And a lot of our players are going to get better and better as seasons go on. So I agree with the OP that desperation trades arnt really necessary. BUT...If we can fill a hole in the roster by shipping out some redundant players, then I wouldnt mind it either. I feel like Landry and Beno are our two most movable guys. At least during the summer. They've both fallen off, but who hasnt on our roster?

Coach has to go first. Sooner the better.
 
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TheWileyVet

TheWileyVet

Starter
#23
#23
gunks said:
He'll be lucky!

:p

Anyways: People I want to keep: JT, Reke, Cuz, Whiteside, Greene, Om, Dally

People I wouldnt mind seeing shipped out (if the price is right): Everybody else, with one of Greene or Omri if we HAVE to (but not both!).

We have (roughly) 30 win talent. And a lot of our players are going to get better and better as seasons go on. So I agree with the OP that desperation trades arnt really necessary. BUT...If we can fill a hole in the roster by shipping out some redundant players, then I wouldnt mind it either. I feel like Landry and Beno are our two most movable guys. At least during the summer. They've both fallen off, but who hasnt on our roster?

Coach has to go first. Sooner the better.
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I agree with this post 100%. QFMFT
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#24
#24
TheWileyVet said:
I agree with this post 100%. QFMFT
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Landry's a FA in the summer, we need to move him this year or we probably won't get anything for him. Unless we want to resign him but I don't think he fits well with DMC. Also I have no idea why everyone wants to keep Dalembert, he's horrible and kills our offense with stupid turnovers and easy misses when he's in.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#25
#25
Dally would be a GREAT big off the bench once Cuz is ready for more consistant minutes (hopefully by next season). He is a great rebounder, great shotblocker, and good defender. Why the Kings are trying to get him to be an offensive option is a head scratcher, but I think Westphal being a horrible coach has something to do with it. I wouldnt want to overpay him, but if we can get him for a reasonable amount of money, I say do it!

As far as Landry, I agree that he doesnt fit well with DMC. I dont think he fits well anywhere but off the bench on a team of vets. I think GP shipping him off to a playoff team is our best bet to get something decent in return, and even then we're probably looking at a low pick as the best case scenario. Still, better than letting him walk...Waaaay better than resigning the scrub.
 
Uncia03

Uncia03

Starter
#26
#26
I agree with the premise of this thread.

I have zero desire to trade any of the young players we've picked up over the last few years. (JT, Donte, Tyreke, Casspi, Cousins, Whiteside)
They are young, and the last thing you want is to trade them and have them develop their potential on another team that was willing to give them the time to develop.

Look at Noah and his development. I'm certain a lot of teams wished they'd been able to convince the Bulls to let him go when he was under-performing and causing problems. Do you all remember when the players voted for him to be suspended for a game due to his attitude?

That basically leaves our two big contract guys in Garcia and Beno, and our two enders in Landry and Dalembert.

The only guy of those four who I really want to see stick around is Dalembert. Both Garcia and Beno have shown that they can play as role-players, and if they are playing well I don't mind them sticking around as well.

So since I can't imagine us giving Landry a huge pay-day in the off-season, he seems to be the only guy who needs to be traded by the deadline.

So, as much as I hate losing, I'm willing to role with our youth to see how they develop. Trade Landry, try to keep Dalembert in the offseason.

If we have the opportunity to make a trade that involves Garcia or Beno, and it will make us better, then make the trade. But unless it's for a significant impact player, I don't want to see our youth traded, especially Tyreke and DMC.
 
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