Vlade was the glue behind the team, the voice of reason, he was also fun...He kept everything and everybody in check...and at this point I just don't see that voice. I still think that Cisco is a good leader to have on the court but I don't see anybody else - we need a Vlade type of player. That would help a lot.
Demarcus
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Sorry,but if Cisco is the leader, and only leader, we're really in trouble. One thing a true leader must do is be consistent, doesn't have to be great, but needs to produce consistently. Cisco has been one of the more inconsistent players so far, and on top of that, continues to make rookie mistakes. For every big shot there's a stupid pass. We saw it as recent as yesterday. Loosing the ball in the open court with no one around him, followed by that horrible pass to no one inparticular in the 4th.
He's a positive addition to a young team, but in no way, shape, or form should be the leader. He's a career bencher who's decision making hasn't improved in 5 years. In fact, I would say the fact he is considered to be such a leader on this team is a testament to the overall lack of leadership. None of the other 29 teams in the league are after him because of his veteran presence. It's more a product of our situation, in that we really don't have another leader.
He's a positive addition to a young team, but in no way, shape, or form should be the leader. He's a career bencher who's decision making hasn't improved in 5 years. In fact, I would say the fact he is considered to be such a leader on this team is a testament to the overall lack of leadership. None of the other 29 teams in the league are after him because of his veteran presence. It's more a product of our situation, in that we really don't have another leader.
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Jwill and Webber have certainly had issues, but the huge difference in thier early years is that neither of them had that pouty,complaining,demonstrative,flailing arms in the air with disgusted look when he doesnt get the ball or gets a foul called on him. Look at his on court actions, remember bad body language. I cant believe you guys cant see that. He's a cancer. You mentioned how he's 20 and how we all look back when we were in our 20's and how we're different , you said you were 65 or something, I only care about him whiles he's in his 20's, early 30's. Im sure you were the same at 20 as you were at 25,26,29. He wont change, it is who he is.
Trade him now for another teams #1 unprotected like mentioned today. Detroit and Houston both interested. They both could be in top 5 or 6 in the draft,coupled with our pick you could end up Knight,Barnes,Irving,dude from Baylor,Terrance Jones!! i'd take two of those guys to pair up with Tyreke and sign Gasol as an unrestricted FA,you'd be set Cancer free for years to come with excitement and commitment.
Trade him now for another teams #1 unprotected like mentioned today. Detroit and Houston both interested. They both could be in top 5 or 6 in the draft,coupled with our pick you could end up Knight,Barnes,Irving,dude from Baylor,Terrance Jones!! i'd take two of those guys to pair up with Tyreke and sign Gasol as an unrestricted FA,you'd be set Cancer free for years to come with excitement and commitment.
I really hope that we don't trade Demarcus. People, for some reason, are eager to pull the cord on the guy. I think he's going to be fantastic for this team.
I love this quote by the guy.
I don’t want to derail the thread but just to clarify…Yes, right now, Cisco is our only leader and I didn’t say that was a good thing. I like Cisco as a leader but, like I said before, I’d like to have at least someone else – a Vlade type of guy, that type of voice, the presence and his overall way of making the whole team bond…And I don’t care if Francisco has been inconsistent (he’s been like that his whole career), but the guy brings something to the table that is good for the team. Not only does he bring energy and passion, night in, night out, but he pulls guys aside and talks to them. And I think they listen.
I never said we should start him - I like him off the bench and I think that's a really great spot for him, and I do think a lot of teams could use a guy like him…Cisco is one of my favorite players on the team, but I do think he will be traded by the deadline this year.
I love this quote by the guy.
I don’t want to derail the thread but just to clarify…Yes, right now, Cisco is our only leader and I didn’t say that was a good thing. I like Cisco as a leader but, like I said before, I’d like to have at least someone else – a Vlade type of guy, that type of voice, the presence and his overall way of making the whole team bond…And I don’t care if Francisco has been inconsistent (he’s been like that his whole career), but the guy brings something to the table that is good for the team. Not only does he bring energy and passion, night in, night out, but he pulls guys aside and talks to them. And I think they listen.
I never said we should start him - I like him off the bench and I think that's a really great spot for him, and I do think a lot of teams could use a guy like him…Cisco is one of my favorite players on the team, but I do think he will be traded by the deadline this year.
Name one? How about Michael Jordan? Big Prima Donna. Fought with coaches. The Jordan Rules was the first time anyone brought it to the public attention, but if Jordan had played in the internet age it would have been an ongoing story. Seems that turned out just fine for the Bulls. Magic Johnson also went from rising star to hated Prima Donna after getting his coach fired and being labeled a selfish kid at 22-23. Turned out just fine for the Lakers. Clearly, I am not saying Cousins will even wiff the success of those two, but along with all of the other examples others mentioned, your argument just doesn't hold water.
BTW, you did ask for current. How about Kobe Bryant - feuded with coach, teammates, got Shaq traded, accused of rape, called a terrible leader and a cancer to his team, and sulked and wanted to be traded before the Gasol trade. Lakers seem very happy with him the last couple of years. Paul Pierce was accused of enjoying the nightlife too much, milking injuries, and wanted to be traded. Celtics are sure glad they kept that finals MVP. Have you seen the wrath LeBron has incured the last year? Any doubt every team in the league would still take him as he still has time to get his head on straight and win multiple rings.
BTW, you did ask for current. How about Kobe Bryant - feuded with coach, teammates, got Shaq traded, accused of rape, called a terrible leader and a cancer to his team, and sulked and wanted to be traded before the Gasol trade. Lakers seem very happy with him the last couple of years. Paul Pierce was accused of enjoying the nightlife too much, milking injuries, and wanted to be traded. Celtics are sure glad they kept that finals MVP. Have you seen the wrath LeBron has incured the last year? Any doubt every team in the league would still take him as he still has time to get his head on straight and win multiple rings.
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youve got to be kidding me with these comparisons, read my post again. You know what i meant,came into the league with all the negative criticism,bs, turmoil,attitude issues,headcase issues,teammate problems,clashes with the head coach etc. Kobe,Michael,Lebron,Pierce are you serious,none of those stars had that coming in. Name one issue where any of the above came into the league with the rep of DMC and continued it at DMC's pace. There is no comparison. those guys are Superstars,winners,leaders,NBA champs, MVP's,rookie of the years,1st team all NBA and so on. Youre talking a diff league of quality player,Game changers,franchise changers. That is not this dude,are you kidding me. You name Kobe and his antics, that all came AFTER he was a star,earned his way,diff angle.He'll go down as the best ever if not second best. Yes you accept his crap becasue he's KOBE BRYANT. DMC plays 3 years wins a All ster birth,nba final appearance or rookie of the year, scoring title, anything then HELL YES i'll back off of him. Hes not that guy dude. Hes a loser. MJ, you said MJ!!! guy came in to the NBA with a championship at NC, NO issues in school,none. No comparison. You score 26 as a rookie then yes, you get a pass for pissing at a teammate,prob deserved it too cuz he's not living up to MJ's standards. These people you named are living LEGENDS, im sickened you compare their crap to DMC's. What the hell has this guy done....Nothing,rode the coat tales of Wall and Calipari,he will not ever LEAD his team to anything. What a rediculous post
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I think you need to reread your post:
"You and I expect our 5 pick to be a star, the consement professional and lead us to the promised land. Look at all the current playoff teams right now, name one star of those teams who has ever had this rep who has been successful in the way we need it. there isnt one, because Its leadership qualities,chemistry issues, teammate spats,maturity,dedication to team first etc. that I think he lacks. The things he lacks right now i just listed do not or have not made up one player from any current playoff team who is their leader. Why???? cuz players like DMC are never the "franchise" it will always be DMC first , us and you making excuses for him. Sure he could get his 18/10 or 20/8 or whatever,but at the expense of a victory,"
If you don't think "leadership qualities,chemistry issues, teammate spats,maturity,dedication to team first etc." were issues with the above players, not the mention the others such as Payton, Webber, Kidd, etc., you need to go study some NBA history.
Cousins tries. When he plays well, so do we. He hasn't put it all together yet, but he seems to love the game and hates losing. Trying to draw broad conclusions about him 15 games into his 20 year old, rookie season is a practice in futility.
I stand by my post.
"You and I expect our 5 pick to be a star, the consement professional and lead us to the promised land. Look at all the current playoff teams right now, name one star of those teams who has ever had this rep who has been successful in the way we need it. there isnt one, because Its leadership qualities,chemistry issues, teammate spats,maturity,dedication to team first etc. that I think he lacks. The things he lacks right now i just listed do not or have not made up one player from any current playoff team who is their leader. Why???? cuz players like DMC are never the "franchise" it will always be DMC first , us and you making excuses for him. Sure he could get his 18/10 or 20/8 or whatever,but at the expense of a victory,"
If you don't think "leadership qualities,chemistry issues, teammate spats,maturity,dedication to team first etc." were issues with the above players, not the mention the others such as Payton, Webber, Kidd, etc., you need to go study some NBA history.
Cousins tries. When he plays well, so do we. He hasn't put it all together yet, but he seems to love the game and hates losing. Trying to draw broad conclusions about him 15 games into his 20 year old, rookie season is a practice in futility.
I stand by my post.
K
The only reason why those players did not come into the league with any issues is because the internet wasn't as strong or even existent when they did, so there was nothing to read about those players and no way to research their history and no 2-bit reporters having agenda's against people they had never seen play. If you honestly believe the bull **** you are spitting then I hope you have some scope to clean your mouth out when it gets thrown back in your face. If you are going to call someone a bust before they have even played half of their first season then you are about the dumbest poster I have ever seen in all my life. I guess that is one of the downsides of the internet, because now every idiot has a say in something.
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None of the guys you mentioned were superstars at age 20. Jordan was still at NC at Cousins age, and far from the complete product he later bacame. Same as anyone else.
Speaking in absolutes about what a player can or cannot do after 15 games is asinine. These legends you named weren't legends at age 20. Are you too stupid to realize that?
What has he done? Cousins was the most dominant big man in the last decade stat wise in college basketball. More dominant than Jordan. More dominant than Pierce. If you aren't aware, or haven't taken the time to look at the stats which are right there for all to see, your opinion means absolutely nothing. You haven't done your research.
You do realize Kobe forced a trade after being drafted by Charlotte before ever stepping on an nba court, right? Judging by your intellect, you don't.
You do realize Lebron dominated Cle behind the scenes for years, and constantly demanded special treatment for himself and his friends before becoming an MVP, right?
You do realize Jordan was one of the more selfish, stats oriented players in the league for his first 5 years, right? Jordan didn't come into the league a winner, in fact far from it.
I highly question how much basketball you have actually watched.
In a previous post you asked for names of guys who had a negative reputation their first few years, and are playing in the playoffs. I named a handful off the top of my head, yet you ignored the response. You clearly have an agenda, and when someone responds intelligently, you just ignore the facts and move on. You're like a 14 yr old who thinks his view is the only view, and don't have the ability to comprehend the other side of an arguement. Many have taken the time to respond to you with facts, and you have yet to respond intelliegently. This is the last time I will respond to you, because you're now to the point where you're not even making sense. Contradicting yourself at every turn.
And you really think a 20 yr old can't alter or change his future, and everything is set in stone?
Speaking in absolutes about what a player can or cannot do after 15 games is asinine. These legends you named weren't legends at age 20. Are you too stupid to realize that?
What has he done? Cousins was the most dominant big man in the last decade stat wise in college basketball. More dominant than Jordan. More dominant than Pierce. If you aren't aware, or haven't taken the time to look at the stats which are right there for all to see, your opinion means absolutely nothing. You haven't done your research.
You do realize Kobe forced a trade after being drafted by Charlotte before ever stepping on an nba court, right? Judging by your intellect, you don't.
You do realize Lebron dominated Cle behind the scenes for years, and constantly demanded special treatment for himself and his friends before becoming an MVP, right?
You do realize Jordan was one of the more selfish, stats oriented players in the league for his first 5 years, right? Jordan didn't come into the league a winner, in fact far from it.
I highly question how much basketball you have actually watched.
In a previous post you asked for names of guys who had a negative reputation their first few years, and are playing in the playoffs. I named a handful off the top of my head, yet you ignored the response. You clearly have an agenda, and when someone responds intelligently, you just ignore the facts and move on. You're like a 14 yr old who thinks his view is the only view, and don't have the ability to comprehend the other side of an arguement. Many have taken the time to respond to you with facts, and you have yet to respond intelliegently. This is the last time I will respond to you, because you're now to the point where you're not even making sense. Contradicting yourself at every turn.
And you really think a 20 yr old can't alter or change his future, and everything is set in stone?
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You cant compare rookie DMC to the likes of rookie MJ or Kobe. Some of the issues raised about DMC are legit, but may have been exaggerated. MJ and Kobe came into the league wanting to play and compete. At times I cant say the same for DMC, with his bad body language and demonstrative anger; sometimes it seems that he doesnt want to play at all. With that said, i think that DMC is making progress. It seems he's learning how to be professional, and how to cooperate with the team. It takes small steps, but as evidenced in the last game and recent inteviews, you can see he is putting in the effort to do better, and i think he will continue to do so.
While I agree with your final point, I don't agree with the bolded part at all. "Demonstrative anger" for real? The facial expressions can be negative, but demonstrative? That is a little strong. Is he choking people out and busting up the place now?
My take on the expressions and body language is he's probably more upset with himself than anything else... and like you said, he's learning. He's a expressive guy. When he makes a good play he gets pumped... Bad play or foul, usually disappointed. But he is no worse than most other players when they get a bad call they don't agree with. JT use to be constantly surprised at foul calls, and usually argued every call. Remember Brad Millers sour face on every call? Kobe, Tim Duncan... very expressive and pouting when called on a foul. Were they demonstrative? Now I do agree this is something not necessary and he needs to tone down.
As far as competing or doesn't want to play at all. Ive never seen this. If anything DeMarcus competes too hard. Probably as hard or harder than anyone on the team... maybe even as hard as MJ and Kobe. What is the evidence to say he doesn't? Facial expressions?
My take on the expressions and body language is he's probably more upset with himself than anything else... and like you said, he's learning. He's a expressive guy. When he makes a good play he gets pumped... Bad play or foul, usually disappointed. But he is no worse than most other players when they get a bad call they don't agree with. JT use to be constantly surprised at foul calls, and usually argued every call. Remember Brad Millers sour face on every call? Kobe, Tim Duncan... very expressive and pouting when called on a foul. Were they demonstrative? Now I do agree this is something not necessary and he needs to tone down.
As far as competing or doesn't want to play at all. Ive never seen this. If anything DeMarcus competes too hard. Probably as hard or harder than anyone on the team... maybe even as hard as MJ and Kobe. What is the evidence to say he doesn't? Facial expressions?
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My point was all the stars that were listed by the other poster along with their issues were things that happened after they were established stars,whether they were 21 or 22,23 24. we can go around in circles on this. The dude has played 15 games, youre right, hes played college ball.Since he's been in the spotlight for the last year and a half coupled with all the negative press he has received and the games ive seen this year lead me to MY opinion only, you all have yours. They are different, big deal in the grand scheme of things. You claim my ignorance or lack of bball iq or research, whatever. Perception is reality in this world and for every excuse you have for him or its "only been 15 games cut the guy some slack" I have seen events to the contrary. I stand by MY opinion of him and nothing will change it except DMC. and I hope he does. Until then he's a cancer and as you will see , never live up to what you want him to be. He will let you down over and over again until you yourselves, the "wise ones" on this board ,will finally agree.
I'm going to agree with you on the competition part. I watched this kid play a lot, and never did it think he didn't want to compete or play. I did at times think he didn't have the energy to compete. There was no doubt that he ran out of gas many times at Kentucky. So if anyone wants to criticize his not being in the best shape, he certainly deserves it. Ironicly, Dexter Pittman suffered from the same malady and although it was pointed out, he was never made a poster boy because of it.
Perhaps because I've seen Cousins play so much, I'm immune to his scowls. But I think you nailed it when you said he's mad at himself when he screws up. And he's not even close to being as bad as some of the other players in the league. I watch a lot of NBA basketball and guys like Duncan, and Melo are just as bad if not worse when it comes to protesting a foul called on them. Melo leads the league in technicals. I'm not sure why we tend to be harder on our own players when it comes to these things, but I feel we are. I have clear memories of Webb arguing foul calls on a regular basis. Personally I don't care as long as it doesn't end up being a technical or it has a bad influence on the officials when it comes to calling a game.
Perhaps because I've seen Cousins play so much, I'm immune to his scowls. But I think you nailed it when you said he's mad at himself when he screws up. And he's not even close to being as bad as some of the other players in the league. I watch a lot of NBA basketball and guys like Duncan, and Melo are just as bad if not worse when it comes to protesting a foul called on them. Melo leads the league in technicals. I'm not sure why we tend to be harder on our own players when it comes to these things, but I feel we are. I have clear memories of Webb arguing foul calls on a regular basis. Personally I don't care as long as it doesn't end up being a technical or it has a bad influence on the officials when it comes to calling a game.
If you think that perception is reality, then you truely are an idiot. Perception is the tool of propaganda.
Perception is not reality! It can be, but far too often, make that most often, its very far from reality. Perception is what someone else wants you to believe. Magic is all about perception and has nothing to do with reality. All too often, politics is only perception and has nothing to do with reality. So frankly I don't give a tinkers damm what your silly perception is. Because everything you post is just that, silly. Your perception is based on preconcieved notions. You discard the fact that he's only played 15 games as irrelevant. 15 games and his career is already settled in your mind. You don't need anymore information than that. Boy! I wish all of us were as smart as you are. Tell me, what has he done so far to make himself a cancer? Please don't use getting kicked out of practice. Because that happens all the time across the NBA. As Jerry Reynolds stated on the Rise Guys, Danny Ainge was kicked out of practice several times. Just how, in 15 games has he let anyone down? What are these major events that you've seen? How do you know what it is I want him to live up to?
I watched him play 24 times last year. I spent hours doing research on him through newspaper articles by the local rags and even the campus newspaper. I watched him play in two highschool all star games, and managed to find a couple of highschool games on the internet to watch.. And frankly, to have you come in and just discard everyone else's opinion including my own, without doing any research of you own and just watching 15 games tells me everything I need to know about you. You don't really care. Because if you cared, you would still be pulling for Cousins to succeed despite any reservations you might have. Because fans that truely care about their team will always hope everything works out, even when it looks like it might not. Because if it doesn't, it hurts the team. And no fan wants that.
Its one thing to be critical of a player. To point out his failings and what he needs to work on. Its fine to be upset that he got kicked out of practice. And to be critical of him for that. But you go beyond that. In your mind he has no chance of succeeding. He's already a bust and a failure. All this after just 15 games. What a joke. This I know. Your getting far too much attention, and you don't deserve it. Goodbye!
Perception is not reality! It can be, but far too often, make that most often, its very far from reality. Perception is what someone else wants you to believe. Magic is all about perception and has nothing to do with reality. All too often, politics is only perception and has nothing to do with reality. So frankly I don't give a tinkers damm what your silly perception is. Because everything you post is just that, silly. Your perception is based on preconcieved notions. You discard the fact that he's only played 15 games as irrelevant. 15 games and his career is already settled in your mind. You don't need anymore information than that. Boy! I wish all of us were as smart as you are. Tell me, what has he done so far to make himself a cancer? Please don't use getting kicked out of practice. Because that happens all the time across the NBA. As Jerry Reynolds stated on the Rise Guys, Danny Ainge was kicked out of practice several times. Just how, in 15 games has he let anyone down? What are these major events that you've seen? How do you know what it is I want him to live up to?
I watched him play 24 times last year. I spent hours doing research on him through newspaper articles by the local rags and even the campus newspaper. I watched him play in two highschool all star games, and managed to find a couple of highschool games on the internet to watch.. And frankly, to have you come in and just discard everyone else's opinion including my own, without doing any research of you own and just watching 15 games tells me everything I need to know about you. You don't really care. Because if you cared, you would still be pulling for Cousins to succeed despite any reservations you might have. Because fans that truely care about their team will always hope everything works out, even when it looks like it might not. Because if it doesn't, it hurts the team. And no fan wants that.
Its one thing to be critical of a player. To point out his failings and what he needs to work on. Its fine to be upset that he got kicked out of practice. And to be critical of him for that. But you go beyond that. In your mind he has no chance of succeeding. He's already a bust and a failure. All this after just 15 games. What a joke. This I know. Your getting far too much attention, and you don't deserve it. Goodbye!
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the difference being if your a stud leader and gripe about calls vs your a loafer and argue about calls as if hes earned the right to do so after 15 games. Earn your place first,establish who you are as a player,get respect. He acts as though hes deserving of calls as if he's a all star caliber player.
So then please tell us what DeMarcus has to do for you to stop this incessant crap? What in paricular is it that will resonably satisfy your skewed vision of him? ...and while you're at it, maybe you can tell us what it is you do like about the Kings and Sacramento? All your posts are so combative... We're just not convinced you're not a troll.
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the problem with you as you stated youve invested all this time in watching,reading analyzing the guy last year.Basically youve raised him in your mind as if he's one of your own. He's your child basically, you coddle him and teach him and allow him to make mistakes, youre more forgiving. It goes back to my point about objectivity, you dont have it my friend, he's your blood. Of course you will always stick up for him. his past year and this years first 15 games are plenty to make a judgement on him, not as a player mind you but as a teammate,a leader, a winner. I told you before the guy could avg good numbers eventually but he wont lead you to a title. Put him on OKC for example, look at that franchise, the players all love each other, hang together, win together and they are kids as well, youngest team inthe league. They win and i guarantee you if he somehow was drafted there he would be kicked off that team or traded, over never drafted if given the chance, because he doesnt fit in with winners. He may get his numbers one day but is that all you care about, numbers at the expense of winning. I want to root for a winning team on and of the court . DMC doesnt have the makeup for that. You can live in your fantasy world about him him being mad at himself, what a joke, that tells me you havent watched this years games, he's mad at the ref, coach teammates for not getting him the ball or some bs foul call. He's a me first cancer that will eventually make the Kings regret that pick.
How many technical fouls does he have? That stat will actually tell you how much he really "gripes" with the refs. The refs are giving techs out just for looking at them funny. I'll save you the time. He has 1 this year. It was against the Pistons. He makes faces and other gestures because he's upset with himself not with the refs. Guilty till proven innocent for you, huh?
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I want the Kings to trade him to either Houston or Detroit for their unprotected 1, then we could choose two players from Knight,Barnes,Percy,Irving,T Jones. I want "good guys" who will mesh together for the good of a team. To be the talk of the league as they mature and turn heads together. Who knows, regain trust from Sac fans and make it impossible for them to leave. DMC does not embody that transition. You will see
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My only combative posts are about DMC in simple response to someone else. Its an opinion, just like yours ,only opposite.What I love about the Kings is their cap room, the fact they have 1 player and half of another one. They have whats called long term upside if they play their cards right. If they have two top 8 picks next year we could be the next coming of OKC ,along with an overpayment to M Gasol in free agency. Of course that entails trading DMC and Landry to get that second 1st rounder. SO that goes back to playing your cards right. Something along the lines of DMC,Landry to Hou for Hill and filler,pick. They need bigs in lieu of Yao and would be dumb enough to fall for it.
You do realise your argument keeps changing? It's clear you're fighting a losing battle and simply can't admit it. Your posts have no backing or substantiation whatsoever, and everything you say is based on your keen insightful personal perception of what Cousins does. I'll agree with you that he hasn't earned any right to act like he does, but I don't see what that has to do with your original point, that he'll be a cancer, not worth the #5 pick, we should trade him etc. Every time someone brings a counter-argument you don't take the time to refute them, but jump on to your next idea that Cousins sucks because you see him look angry. You're simply throwing out random, unsupported arguments against Cousins that are entirely based on your personal opinion. You're right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But when your opinion is entirely formed based on nothing substantial then will frankly your opinion is BS.
Congratulations, you've earned your way to my ignore list
cya.
Congratulations, you've earned your way to my ignore list
cya.
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You do realise your argument keeps changing? It's clear you're fighting a losing battle and simply can't admit it. Your posts have no backing or substantiation whatsoever, and everything you say is based on your keen insightful personal perception of what Cousins does. I'll agree with you that he hasn't earned any right to act like he does, but I don't see what that has to do with your original point, that he'll be a cancer, not worth the #5 pick, we should trade him etc. Every time someone brings a counter-argument you don't take the time to refute them, but jump on to your next idea that Cousins sucks because you see him look angry. You're simply throwing out random, unsupported arguments against Cousins that are entirely based on your personal opinion. You're right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But when your opinion is entirely formed based on nothing substantial then will frankly your opinion is BS.
Congratulations, you've earned your way to my ignore list cya.
Congratulations, you've earned your way to my ignore list
cya.