LeBron James may have a planet-sized ego, BUT...

Are you going to watch the LeBron James special?


  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .
#61
Far be it form me to accidentally defend Kobe, even by proxy, but Gasol was not Top 10 before, nor after arriving in Cleveland. This idea that being able to play in Kobe's shadow somehow makes you some god is ridiculous and I am getting really annoyed at the ridiculous largely media and Laker fan driven overestimation of a 1x All Star who is about a 18 and 8 or 19 and 9 guy by nature. Good player, but people are being ridiculous. He's just another good big man. The player that Kobe needed of course, but strictly a second fiddle. Top 10 guys are guys who should get HOF consideration. With Dirk, Duncan, Bosh, Amare, Boozer, Jefferson etc. all sitting at the position, he might not even be Top 5 at his own position.

If a guy is Top 10 you shoudl be able to take him from hsi current team, trade him to a team without a superstar, and build a contender around him. In no way is Pau in that class. I can name 8 guys ahead of him on that curve without even blinking: LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dirk, Howard, CP3, Melo, Durant, and have far too many contenders for the last two spots for a guy who's averaged 20-10 once in his whole career to nab it: Duncan, Yao, Roy, Amare, Bosh, our own Tyreke if he contiues his upward arc, Deron, Rose (with improvement) Joe Johnson, Nash etc.
So not top ten. I'll concede that. Still a damn fine player, and miles ahead of anyone LeBron has had in the last four years. That's all my point was. To argue that LeBron isn't in Kobe's league because he can't win without a really good team around him is ludicrous. There are a dozen other arguments that could be made about why Kobe is better than LeBron that would make more sense than that. Like I said, Kobe was getting bounced in the first round and demanding a trade until he got a quality big man (not top ten, top 25 though), and even then he couldn't beat the Celtics Big Three.

And the subtext to all of this is of course that somehow there is now a rule that in order to keep a young superstar player you have to win a title with him by the time he's 25. Which just qaulifies as a "are you serious"? The kid isn't even truly in his prime yet, but if you haven't delivered him a title by then its perfectly justified for him to pull up stakes and ditch you no matter how close you are because obviously he's never going to win one with you. Afterall, just look at all those poor ringless one team guys like Jordan (first at 27) Hakeem (first at 31) Isiah (first at 29) Admiral (first at 30) etc. Poor bastards having to wait until they were old enough to drink before their teams finally delivered a title to them.
I'm not claiming it's justified at all. I think it sucks for the city and the fans of the Cavs. Like I said, especially doing it on national TV, LeBron is a cold hearted bastard who doesn't get "it", it might be because he doesn't have "it". Don't know, but leaving your fiance at the altar in favor of the hot blonde winking in the back of the chapel is ... well, it sucks. Plain and simple. And it portends bad things for us small market fans.

In the Cavs case, however, my primary pushback is against the idea that he played them, that he pretended to love them, that this was some epic betrayal, like he just decided a few days ago to explore free agency. The writing was on the wall in the summer of '06 when he insisted on a player option for 2010. If we try to extend Reke in a couple years and he insists on a four year deal with a player option after three, well then the front office is officially on notice. Not that it's right, but we can't come back four years later when he leaves us standing in the rain and say "WTF Reke?" WTF started happening four years ago, and Dan Gilbert and company screwed up.

It's also worth noting that the three you mentioned didn't go straight to the pros. LeBron has as much mileage at 25 as Jordan had at 27, maybe more. The clock's ticking.
 
#63
Gasol was not even considered top 10 before he got paired with Kobe.

Funny. Players get teamed with Kobe and become better. Guys get paired with Lebron and become Harlem Globetrotters.

Agreed. Lebron is going to an All Star team. Wade is a top guy and Bosh was also the top guy on his team. Gasol would never be a number 1 option. Kobe made him better. Someone even had the nerve to mention well Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. First of all, you dont give the ball to Rodman in key situations, he gets you the ball. Not a number 1 option. Pippen is not a top 50 player without Jordan. Pippen is not a number 1 option without Jordan. A lot of people must not have watched the NBA the year after Jordan retired the first time because I saw Pippen melt down numerous times on an average Bulls team. Proof that he was a solid player but never meant to be "the guy". Lebron is apparently not cut from the same cloth as Jordan (we knew this from day one) or even Kobe for that matter. Dont get me wrong I questioned Kobe until he won without Shaq being the guy. Kobe takes over games and hits the biggest shots in the biggest games (how many times did we see it this year?). He takes all of the credit for wins and blame for losses. Since Lebron joined Miami this wont be the case with him. I also believe this will keep him from even Kobe's level. He had a chance on a team with another solid player and good role players (such as Cleveland or NY), but not 2 other super stars on the team. It'll always be Wade's team. I saw a good baseball comparison: Lebron is A-Rod and Wade is Jeter. Period. But if all his goal is titles, then he did make the best choice. He did not make the best choice for his own legacy though.
 
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#64
So not top ten. I'll concede that. Still a damn fine player, and miles ahead of anyone LeBron has had in the last four years. That's all my point was. To argue that LeBron isn't in Kobe's league because he can't win without a really good team around him is ludicrous. There are a dozen other arguments that could be made about why Kobe is better than LeBron that would make more sense than that. Like I said, Kobe was getting bounced in the first round and demanding a trade until he got a quality big man (not top ten, top 25 though), and even then he couldn't beat the Celtics Big Three.



I'm not claiming it's justified at all. I think it sucks for the city and the fans of the Cavs. Like I said, especially doing it on national TV, LeBron is a cold hearted bastard who doesn't get "it", it might be because he doesn't have "it". Don't know, but leaving your fiance at the altar in favor of the hot blonde winking in the back of the chapel is ... well, it sucks. Plain and simple. And it portends bad things for us small market fans.

In the Cavs case, however, my primary pushback is against the idea that he played them, that he pretended to love them, that this was some epic betrayal, like he just decided a few days ago to explore free agency. The writing was on the wall in the summer of '06 when he insisted on a player option for 2010. If we try to extend Reke in a couple years and he insists on a four year deal with a player option after three, well then the front office is officially on notice. Not that it's right, but we can't come back four years later when he leaves us standing in the rain and say "WTF Reke?" WTF started happening four years ago, and Dan Gilbert and company screwed up.

It's also worth noting that the three you mentioned didn't go straight to the pros. LeBron has as much mileage at 25 as Jordan had at 27, maybe more. The clock's ticking.
I'm just sick and tired of hearing that LeBron didn't get enough support in Cleveland. You got a 60+ win team and that's not called enough support?

I just don't get it. With ANY other team, e.g. Lakers, people say "Oh they're that good because Kobe has Gasol". But for the Cavs, "Oh, Lebron James singlehandedly won 60 games. Yup that's how ****in awesome he is. He has no support, but his team still gets more wins than the Lakers where Kobe has support". But when the Cavs get booted from the playoffs? "Oh, Lebron doesn't have enough support. He's justified in leaving for Miami because Cleveland didn't give him a #2"

**** man, give me a break. LBJ is not the only reason why the Cavs won as many games as they did. If the last couple of seasons the Cavs just barely made the playoffs, or didn't make it all then sure, you have a legitimate argument that he doesn't have a good enough supporting cast or commitment from management to build a contending team. There is also a huge difference between a lack of supporting cast and the supporting cast simply choking. You can't blame the FO if Mo Williams suddenly goes from all-star level to scrub in the playoffs, and then say that they didn't get you good enough team mates. Look at the scrubs Wade has been playing with the past couple of seasons - yet I think he would have stayed in Miami even if Bosh hadn't agreed to go there.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just think that the excuses made for LBJ, taking all the blame off his shoulders every single damn time, is just ridiculous.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#66
You know, people are starting to talk about Carmelo Anthony leaving Denver to go to New York: how great would it be if he went to Cleveland, and won there?