Who Should Start at Shooting Guard?

[Chupacabra]

I think Cisco will be noticably valuable to us as a starter once the starting lineup gets some games under its belt. Because of Evans, Garcia will no longer be required to do things that are outide of his ability. I just think hes adequate enough to not spend more money on another shooting guard. I wouldnt be against picking up a hungry summer league player for the shooting guard position, but outside of that it just isnt necessary yet.

 

[Superman]

I think Cisco will be noticably valuable to us as a starter once the starting lineup gets some games under its belt. Because of Evans, Garcia will no longer be required to do things that are outide of his ability. I just think hes adequate enough to not spend more money on another shooting guard. I wouldnt be against picking up a hungry summer league player for the shooting guard position, but outside of that it just isnt necessary yet.

We haven't really seen Cisco with Tyreke, certainly not as a starter. When Cisco came back and was getting into a groove, we were also trying to integrate Landry, Beno was playing a larger role, and then Reke had his concussion. Having Reke as the primary ballhandler would take some pressure off of Garcia and allow him to just look to score and play defense. I'd like to see them both in the lineup to start the season, with Beno (much improved last season) backing up both guard spots, and moving Donte and Omri in and out as appropriate.

 

[KingsCitizen]

IMO, the main reason why we see Greene or Casspi at the 2 last season was because we traded Kevin Martin, Garcia was out with injury, and we wanted to see how it is if Evans is the smallest player we have on court to destroy the opponents PGs.

But I just don't see Casspi and Greene as the long term solution to our SG position. Green is a tweener forward and Casspi is clearly a SF. Both will be too slow to guard legit SG in this league. So I would vote Cisco to take the job if we don't sign any better SG this summer.

But I doubt we won't add any more wing player on this team. Petrie clearly mentioned the needs at the wings in several interviews. So we should be seeing a new face before the season starts.

 

[ParniValjak]

Totally agree! I think we're all so excited about the moves we've made to improve the front court (which has been a major weakness), that we've really started overvaluing Beno and Cisco. All this talk that the minutes are taken, that we just need to sign a couple guys out of summer league, etc. to me are a little off.

I'm not suggesting we overspend on a guard or that we need another "star" at the 2 guard, I just think that position is in no way settled for the long term.

Overvaluing Beno and Cisco?! I think not!

What people get carried away with is that they want a borderline star at every position on the court. It doesn't work like that! You need role players around your superstars.

Now we have Reke in the backcourt and hopefully Cousins is all we are hoping for in the front court. That gives you 2 foundation players (all-stars/superstars) to build around. You need to surround these stars with players who can play their role successfully without needing the ball to be effective. Aside from Mike Miller, Cisco is the best fit in the entire league next to Tyreke. He is a jack of all trades, master of none type player. He has his flaws as does every player (including the greats) BUT he brings exactly what this team needs and thats a full sized SG with leadership skills who can shoot the 3 at a good clip, handle and pass the ball well and try his best on the defensive end. Will he make bonehead mistakes, sure he will BUT he brings more positives than negatives to the table.

The is no reason why he can't be a 12ppg, 3rpg, 3apg, 1spg, 1bpg, 45%FG, ~40%3PT in 30+ minutes type role player.

Similarly with Beno, I can think of FAR FAR worse players than Beno and Cisco who have been starters on championship teams. Its not about whether or not Beno and Cisco are great but its about how they fit around the other players that appear to be the greats (Reke and DMC) and both are very good fits next to Tyreke.

 

[Kingstime]

I think Cisco will be noticably valuable to us as a starter once the starting lineup gets some games under its belt. Because of Evans, Garcia will no longer be required to do things that are outide of his ability. I just think hes adequate enough to not spend more money on another shooting guard. I wouldnt be against picking up a hungry summer league player for the shooting guard position, but outside of that it just isnt necessary yet.

Pretty much all Cisco needs to do is play his role and play it well. He's always been good for a clutch jumper, a good defensive play or a board. Ciscos problem throughout his career has always been the bonehead play and maybe now if he's playing with a guy like Reke he will settle down and just play his game.

 

[piksi]

We don't really have a decent SG assuming that Evans plays PG. Neither of those guys is good enough or consistant enough. We need someone else there.

And does anyone really believe that Cisco will play more than 30 games this season ?

 

[Geoff]

Just do me one favor: name a "true PG" currently playing in the NBA that is more than a role player. The last one I can think of is John Stocton, and he hasn't played in a while.

Hi, my name is Steve Nash. Probably you've also heard of my friends Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, and Jason Kidd who refuses to slow down.

 

[Showtime]

I think Beno and Evans should start, with Garcia being played at either PG or SG in a 3-player backcourt rotation. That gives the team options. Beno and Evans played well toegther and complimented each other well last season. With Garcia, he can play with both Beno and Evans, can shoot from the outside and play off Evans, and has the handles to play some point as well.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I think Beno and Evans should start, with Garcia being played at either PG or SG in a 3-player backcourt rotation. That gives the team options. Beno and Evans played well toegther and complimented each other well last season. With Garcia, he can play with both Beno and Evans, can shoot from the outside and play off Evans, and has the handles to play some point as well.

And I'm sure Paul will start the year with that pairing considering it worked pretty well last season. Beno was fantastic last year but I think he would really shine on the bench. I voted for Greene only because his defense is very very good and he won't be asked to do too much on offense considering we have Reke and Landry to do most of the scoring.

 

[fnordius]

The point I was trying to make is that what many people refer to as a "true PG" is not only very rare, but not even what they truly want leading their team (unless they have a superstar playing another position). Tyreke may not be the prototype when you think of a PG. But then neither was Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Oscar Robinson, Nate Archibald, Walt Frasier, etc. Most of the time when you find a "true PG", it ends up being a player like Chris Duhon. Not a bad player, but would you rather have him or Tyreke?

I agree that true PGs who rise to the level of greatness are rare. But I'd include guys like Deron Williams as lesser lights in that category. And they're nothing to sneeze at. Heck, our (formerly) own Sergio Rodriguez was a third-string quality true PG. They're out there.

And I'd include some of your "untrue PGs" list in that category, too. I don't define the category by being unable or absolutely unwilling to score; if you're Nate Archibald and get 11.4 assists a game and still score 34 points, I think you've labelled yourself as a HOF PG on a relatively weak team, not as a combo guard. (Maybe I'm being arbitrary here, but I don't think that combo guards get 10+ assists in practically every game they play.) I expect the PG to be the guy on the floor who knows how to make the team win, and will do what's needed, regardless of whether that means shooting much. Similarly, you don't say that Laimbeer wasn't a true C because he occasionally hit a 3, you say that Laimbeer was a true C and kind of a freak.

I don't know that we disagree on the subject, I just know that we have a budding superstar playing PG for us and I see no reason to try and move him to a different position simply because he plays it a little differently than what some consider the norm. I prefer to build around him which is what I believe Petrie is trying to do. I am just glad we got lucky enough to get Cousins as well to fill up the other of the two toughest positions to fill. Hopefully, the Kings have found their foundation to build on for a lot of championships to come.

I'm not arguing that he needs to be moved, I think that his game will be similar whatever name we hang on him, particularly in a dual-guard setup like we've been using. You can call Beno the SG if you want, teams will still have their SGs defending Tyreke much of the time, because most coaches aren't stupid. With this sort of setup, the title we use just doesn't matter.

I would argue that "true PGs" are not impossible to get, nor are they a forgotten vestige of an earlier century. But Geoff was always a 20 point, 4 assist sort of guard himself, and he's been quite consistent in his enthusiasm for the combo guard model. I don't expect to see a "true PG" starting for the Kings before he retires.

 

[tyrant]

cisco is trash, please sign someone or give the job to omri. it should be evans, omri, green, landry and cuz if we dont sign anyone else, but im not too comfortable with the pf position, we can do better than landry at that starting spot

 

[Rookie]

I wouldn't consider Cisco trash, I do agree however he needs to step up his game. I give him another try before shipping him out because of his injury and the man got heart.

PF
I'm very confortable with Landry/thompson/(Whiteside for testing) at the PF position. Are they star? nope, but combined they can get that position cover well.

 

[funkykingston]

I wouldn't consider Cisco trash, I do agree however he needs to step up his game. I give him another try before shipping him out because of his injury and the man got heart.

PF
I'm very confortable with Landry/thompson/(Whiteside for testing) at the PF position. Are they star? nope, but combined they can get that position cover well.

I agree on both counts. IF this team takes a big step forward towards being a contender again in the future it will presumably be Evans and Cousins leading the way. I have high hopes that those two players will be stars. And if they are, you don't need stars at every other position.

Are either Landry or Thompson the longterm answer at the PF? Maybe, maybe not. Landry is an effective scorer and Thompson is a hustle player with good size, good all-around skills and the ability to spell either PF or C. You won't have stars at every position and while both have weaknesses (for Landry it is size/rebounding and for Thompson it's basically hoops IQ) they can certainly be solid starters/contributors on contending teams.

As for the SG spot, here's the difficulty. The ideal player to pair with Tyreke must check a lot of boxes. He must:

Have good size to preserve Tyreke's advantage on opposing PGs
Be a good ballhandler and passer to take pressure off Evans
Play solid defense
Be able to hit open threes to open up the middle for Evans and our bigs
Be a team first player who doesn't need to dominate the ball
Be a savvy and smart player who limits costly mistakes
and it would help if he had leadership qualities, the ability to deliver great post entry passes and be a veteran who can help our young player's development.

The player that best fits that description is Doug Christie. But Garcia isn't far off. I don't know how well he feeds the post (to be fair, we haven't had players worth feeding), his shot is inconsistent and he still drives me nuts with some of his decisions. But he is clearly the best option next to Evans of the players currently on the team. And outside of Mike Miller (who is a far worse defender) I'm having a hard time thinking of too many players that would be better next to Evans period.

It's very hard to find a guy who is a good shooter, ball handler, defender and passer at the SG spot who also isn't ball dominant or a star player that would demand a much higher salary.

I could be wrong and Garcia may not pair well with Tyreke, but I definitely want to see it tried before we decide to go another direction.

 

[mcsluggo]

I agree on both counts. IF this team takes a big step forward towards being a contender again in the future it will presumably be Evans and Cousins leading the way. I have high hopes that those two players will be stars. And if they are, you don't need stars at every other position. ....

i take it you meant you DISagree???

i disagree with both counts as well.

I am very excited to see what a healthy garcia can do as a good complimentary role player next to Tyreke... He is not a star by any means, but he is also no scrub, he might actually be a PERFECTLY designed compliment for Evans with his skillset.

I am also not too sour on the JT/Landry combo at 4 for a young and improving team (with FOUR other servicable 7 footers that can rotate through that postion). I am kinda psyched about the 4/5 situation!

 

[Heuge]

And does anyone really believe that Cisco will play more than 30 games this season ?

Since last year was the first time he played less then 65 games, yes. Seriously, look things up before you trash players.

 

[funkykingston]

I meant I agreed with Rookie who was disagreeing with Tyrant. Don't you agree that such an agreement with the previous disagreement puts you and I in agreement?

 

[cuad]

Tyreke Evans and Beno should be the starting guards for now. Donte Greene should never start at the two. Come on now; have some sense.

Here is a realistic rotation that is based on the minutes each player played last year.

Tyreke (35) / [Scrub FA] (0)

Beno (32) / Garcia (25) / Udoka (7) / [Scrub FA] (0)

Greene (21) / Casspi (24)

Thompson (20) / Landry (28) / Brockman (0)

Cousins (24) / Dalembert (24) / Whiteside (0)

 

[wazzups]

ok so heres what i think

1-Tyreke / Beno
2-Garcia / Beno / Udoka
3-Casspi / Greene
4-Landry / Thompson / Whiteside / Brockman
5-Dalembert / Cousins / Whiteside

Its time to start Garcia, Casspi, and Landry. Start Dalembert until the new guys show you he needs to come off the bench. Its time for at least another 8+ win improvement season 30 something although it would be nice to see 40. Both Garcia and Casspi should be ready for major minutes this year. Greene first SF off the bench, Thompson first PF off the bench, and of course Cousins first C off bench. Oh and of course Tyreke can start and play as many minutes at 1 or 2 that he wants. Imagine how great it could be to have Beno sitting on the bench to spell either guard first 1 or 2 off bench Beno.

 

[rainmaker]

Wow.
Some of you actually think we have yet to see the best from Cisco? That he still has another level or two that he can get to? That he all the sudden will stop with the horrible TO's and forced jumpers? Yeah right.

You guys do realize Cisco turns 30 in Dec right? I buy the arguement that a Christie type is the perfect fit next to Tyreke. That makes a lot of sense. I also agree that Cisco is the closest thing to Christie we have on our roster. IMO, that isn't a compliment regarding Cisco, but more a result of the state of our roster.

The only thing I would say Cisco is better at than Doug would be 3pt shooting, although Cisco will still jack up some horrible 3's. Everything else Doug was either better, or much better. Better ball handler. Better passer, especially off the dribble. Attacked the paint much more. Much better athlete. Much better at retaining possession of the damn ball! And much, much better defensively. And more likely to play close to 80 games. Cisco has a better mid range jumper, but is still inconsistent, and forces too many of them. Doug always played within himself.

Cisco won't get any better. Anyone thinking that should come inside and stop letting their brains overheat in the sun. I don't think Cisco would be any better at 30 than he was at 27, even if he didn't break his wrist.

Now, given our backcourt, of Beno, Tyreke, and Cisco, would Cisco be a good fit at sg? Of course. Would a Cisco-esque type player work well next to Tyreke. Yes. Right now Cisco is a solid option for the next season. But he will not morph into Doug Christie. I don't even think he can live up to the expectation of being a poor-mans Christie. Too inconsistent. Not a natural playmaker. Not anywhere near the defender or athlete. I also don't think Cisco understands and see's the game at the level Doug did. And I really don't think it's close. IMO, Doug was one of the smartest and brightest to ever suit up for the Kings. Cisco still makes the same mistakes he did his first couple years in the league. Not to the same extent, but I always thought Cisco would mature more as a player. Guess I was wrong.

 

[mcsluggo]

I meant I agreed with Rookie who was disagreeing with Tyrant. Don't you agree that such an agreement with the previous disagreement puts you and I in agreement?

hmmmm. I disagree completely with your disagreable agreement with my aggregeous disagreement with your stealth disagreement with the disagreable original post