Kings meeting with Lebron?

[DocHolliday]

Wow! I make a non-offensive comment about Jesus being on the team with bosh wade and Lebron, which gets some laughs, and it was all in fun, and the posts get removed?

This site is informational, but the ultra-conservative moderating is ridiculous. If you're going to let your personal religious beliefs effect your moderating, you shouldn't be a moderator. If they were removed, because you're worried about someone else being religiously offended, that's their problem, not this sites, and certainly not mine.

This site could not have legal action taken against for the comment about Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire, and Jesus being on a team together, so that's not a concern.

I know what kind of response I'll get to this already, I've seen it before. I just shake my head, because there are so many other more important things to worry about in life than a joking comment such as the one I posted.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Calm down big fella, those posts were (and still are) in another thread.

 

[Superman]

Since I don't personally know the guy, I'm not going to pass judgement on his movitation. But you don't become the best player in basketball by not working hard and playing hard. And thats the bottom line. What his personal movitation is, I don't care. Thats between him and his maker. His only job is to show up and play hard and win. As far as I can see, thats what he's done in Cleveland. Take him off that team and what do you have left? I've watched LeBron play a lot, and no one will tell me he doesn't bring it every night. Yeah, he has arrogance and ego. But thats what seperates the great one's from the almost great. They happen to think that they're the best there is, and they're willing to prove it night in and night out. Michael Jordan was arrogant. Kobe's arrogant. In his prime Shaq was arrogant, saying he was the best center in the NBA and no one was even close to him. One of the reasons I liked Cousins so much is because he believes he's the best. He has that same kind of arrogance. You think Tyreke doesn't have it. He may not flaunt it like LeBron, but he has it.

LeBron shows it with his talcum powder display. Jordan just did it with a smile. Shaq did it with his mouth. Everyone is different, but in some ways the same. All these guys are surpremely confident. They all want to win. Loosing eats at them as an intollable desease. And yes, they all want to be rich as well. Some also like the famous part. But not all.

In closing, I would find it hard to believe that LeBron doesn't want to win a championship. He plays hard. He's brought Cleveland 60 win seasons with a less than stellar supporting cast. I just don't think you can question the motivation of a player with his accomplishments. Well I guess you can, because you did. But I can't!

I was watching an NBA.com show last night that was showing some of the predraft workouts and interviews. They talked to Jon Niednagel, aka The Brain Doctor, and he said that over half of the top 50 players in the NBA all have the same brain type, and almost all of the top 50 have one of two brain types. So elite athletes are all pretty much the same arrogant and self-centered SOB. Some just handle it differently.

 

[Superman]

Wow! I make a non-offensive comment about Jesus being on the team with bosh wade and Lebron, which gets some laughs, and it was all in fun, and the posts get removed?

This site is informational, but the ultra-conservative moderating is ridiculous. If you're going to let your personal religious beliefs effect your moderating, you shouldn't be a moderator. If they were removed, because you're worried about someone else being religiously offended, that's their problem, not this sites, and certainly not mine.

This site could not have legal action taken against for the comment about Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire, and Jesus being on a team together, so that's not a concern.

I know what kind of response I'll get to this already, I've seen it before. I just shake my head, because there are so many other more important things to worry about in life than a joking comment such as the one I posted.

Wrong thread. Rant wasted.

 

[bajaden]

i'm going to have to concede to you, because the statistics will be on your side and i'm not great with the numbers (being a part of my argument, which is why i footnote things by saying it's my opinion).

it's just that, i look at a team like the cavs, who've been juggernauts in the past two regular seasons, and i think to myself, how do these guys lose in the playoffs? in the regular season it's all laughter and good time and fake-camera-posing, and then in the playoffs it's like it's a whole different team. and it's even odder because, like you say, the evidence points to lebron getting statistically better in the postseason, and yet somehow they lose. is it the supporting players all of a sudden sucking? does lebron become more dominant at the detriment of the team? does his leadership for some reason waver? i just don't know, but i must attribute some of it to lebron.

okay, who am i kidding, i attribute a lot of it to him, i plain don't like him!

There's no doubt that the Cav's have struggled in the playoffs. I really think thats where LeBrons supporting cast gets exposed. Things change when you get into a seven game series. Your playing the same team every night until one of you are gone. More than that, your now playing the best of the best every night. A good team now has time to study and plan. They start to take away all the things you did during the season one by one. The game also gets a lot more physical. Suddenly it all falls on LeBron's shoulders. And to be fair, he usually rises to the occasion by putting up better numbers during the playoffs. The problem is that no one else on the team steps up consistently on a nightly basis. LeBron doesn't have a Gasol or an Odom to defer to. There's no Vince Carter or even a Hedo. He's left to do it all himself, and he can't. Neither could Jordan or Kobe. As any player in the NBA will tell you. There's the regular season, and then there's the playoffs. Two entirely different things.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Since I don't personally know the guy, I'm not going to pass judgement on his movitation. But you don't become the best player in basketball by not working hard and playing hard. And thats the bottom line. What his personal movitation is, I don't care. Thats between him and his maker. His only job is to show up and play hard and win. As far as I can see, thats what he's done in Cleveland. Take him off that team and what do you have left? I've watched LeBron play a lot, and no one will tell me he doesn't bring it every night. Yeah, he has arrogance and ego. But thats what seperates the great one's from the almost great. They happen to think that they're the best there is, and they're willing to prove it night in and night out. Michael Jordan was arrogant. Kobe's arrogant. In his prime Shaq was arrogant, saying he was the best center in the NBA and no one was even close to him. One of the reasons I liked Cousins so much is because he believes he's the best. He has that same kind of arrogance. You think Tyreke doesn't have it. He may not flaunt it like LeBron, but he has it.

It's not about the arrogance or ego, it's the "I'm so good I get to decide who the coach and GM are" part of the reports that worry me. Jordan and Kobe's stories both could have been written much differently if they had remained with coaches that couldn't control them. At some point the player has to be a part of something larger.

 

[Superman]

It's not about the arrogance or ego, it's the "I'm so good I get to decide who the coach and GM are" part of the reports that worry me. Jordan and Kobe's stories both could have been written much differently if they had remained with coaches that couldn't control them. At some point the player has to be a part of something larger.

Kobe learned that the hard way, but straightened up quick enough to admit it and get the situation fixed. Still couldn't win without a #2, but the coach situation got fixed after just one season.

 

[bajaden]

I was watching an NBA.com show last night that was showing some of the predraft workouts and interviews. They talked to Jon Niednagel, aka The Brain Doctor, and he said that over half of the top 50 players in the NBA all have the same brain type, and almost all of the top 50 have one of two brain types. So elite athletes are all pretty much the same arrogant and self-centered SOB. Some just handle it differently.

Yep, it just comes with the territory. I do think some handle it better than others. Probably depends on their upbringing. I will admit that when I played ball I was probably an arrogant ***. I didn't think there was a pitcher alive that could get me out. And if they did, it wasn't anything they did, It was because I made a mistake. I never ever, ever gave credit to the other team. I never ever thought we would lose, and if we did, it was our fault, and not the other teams ability. If you were on my team and I saw that dammed deer in the headlights look on your face, I was going to blast you. I didn't want losers on my team. If your coming to lose then just stay home.

As you can see, I wasn't the most pleasant fellow to be around in those days. But I understand the mentality, and all winners have it in some fashion. Some are just bigger jerks than others. Its usually some of those jerks that are winning championships though.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Kobe learned that the hard way, but straightened up quick enough to admit it and get the situation fixed. Still couldn't win without a #2, but the coach situation got fixed after just one season.

You mean the second time around?

 

[Superman]

You mean the second time around?

Yeah. Ran Shaq and Phil out of town (not literally, but clearly didn't want either of them around), then went crawling back to Phil the next summer, and still couldn't win without a true second fiddle in Gasol. There's a huge level of respect between Kobe and Phil, and while I don't think they spend their nights falling asleep on the phone with each other, they've established a bond now, as men. Not a peer-to-peer bond, but a student-to-teacher bond, which was lacking the first time around. You look at some of the stuff Phil wrote about Kobe in his book, and it was plainly obvious that the relationship was flawed, at best. Haven't had those kinds of reports with any regularity this time, especially with them winning.

 

[Superman]

Yep, it just comes with the territory. I do think some handle it better than others. Probably depends on their upbringing. I will admit that when I played ball I was probably an arrogant ***. I didn't think there was a pitcher alive that could get me out. And if they did, it wasn't anything they did, It was because I made a mistake. I never ever, ever gave credit to the other team. I never ever thought we would lose, and if we did, it was our fault, and not the other teams ability. If you were on my team and I saw that dammed deer in the headlights look on your face, I was going to blast you. I didn't want losers on my team. If your coming to lose then just stay home.

As you can see, I wasn't the most pleasant fellow to be around in those days. But I understand the mentality, and all winners have it in some fashion. Some are just bigger jerks than others. Its usually some of those jerks that are winning championships though.

That's the reason you can't surround Dwight Howard -- at his current maturity level -- with softies like Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter and expect to win a championship. There's no fire on that team.

I don't think you have to have infighting (literally and figuratively) in order to have a winning dynamic, but the alpha mentality has to be there in some respect or another to win. That's kind of the reason the Celtics didn't get it together until the vets were willing to concede to Rondo on the court, because he became the best player on the team (or at least the most important), and that's hard for three former franchise-level players and future HOFers to come to grips with. But he didn't back down, and went out and earned his stripes on the court, and now that's his team.

It's partly what was missing on our team in 2002; when things got tough in Game 6 and when we're playing for our lives in Game 7, with an alpha out there who isn't going to let anyone back down or give up, who is going to put the team on his shoulders and say "follow me", we beat the Lakers. Sadly, Webber wasn't that guy yet. Bibby had the mentality, but wasn't good enough to carry the team by himself against a juggernaut in the playoffs. Webber became that guy the following season, and then the knee happened. But that was the year that you began to hear about Webber riding his teammates, telling guys to get it together, not caring about who isn't getting shots and when, demanding the ball in crunch time, etc.

Sometimes you have to be that way if you want to win. It's all forgotten when you're hoisting the trophy and dousing each other in champagne.

 

[TaxMan]

Wow....I'm pretty shocked by some of the venom against Lebron. He always seemed like a pretty good guy to me, all things considered (i.e. the amount of fame he received at such a young age). Does he think he's bigger than the team? I guess it's possible, but his style of play doesn't really suggest that. The guy is perhaps too unselfish for the good of the team. Sort of similar to the critisims received by Garnett throughout his career.

Certainly is an interresting thread. I suppose if we had this conversation in the late 80's/early 90's there would be people saying the same thing about Jordan. Looking back on things, and hearing some stories after the fact, it seems like MJ really was a bit of a jerk. For some reason I don't get that impression about Lebron. I don't know, I can't imagine people would stop being Kings fans if we signed him (I know it's not reality), but I guess people would based on general principle.

Anyways, I'm too old at this point for hero worship, but I would love to see Lebron in a Kings uniform. I'm not sure how it's any different from signing a second tier free agent, but whatever.

 

[bajaden]

It's not about the arrogance or ego, it's the "I'm so good I get to decide who the coach and GM are" part of the reports that worry me. Jordan and Kobe's stories both could have been written much differently if they had remained with coaches that couldn't control them. At some point the player has to be a part of something larger.

Since we don't know for a fact what Lebron has asked for or not asked for its all speculation, and I refuse to argue over speculation since you or anyone can speculate anything they want. How Jordan or Kobe may have or not have turned out again is just speculation. We don't know. How they did turn out is what we have to deal with. We have to deal with what is, and not what we want it to be, or what we think it might have been if everything had been different. If George Armstrong Custer had just waited for two more days until help arrived he might have lived a long life. But he didn't, and the dude and most of his command ended up dead.

The part of you statement I agree with is that the player at some point has to be part of something bigger. Especially if he wants to win a championship. Well isn't that what LeBron's trying to decide right now. What he wants to be a part of. Mi Amigo, this is his life. Basketball is his life. And this may be his last chance to influence his future. For the first time in a long time, his future is in his own hands. Now its easy for you or me, or anyone else to tell him what he should or should not do. We have no stake in it. We're just contentious fans that think we know it all, and were more than willing to pass judgement on his decision. Just remember that we wouldn't even be having this discussion if he wern't the great player that he is. And also remember that neither you, me, or anyone else made him that player. He made himself that player. So he's earned the right to be in the position he's in. And you have every right to dislike him. Just try for a moment to put yourself in his position. Try seeing things from his point of view. Instead of imagining the worse, try imagining the best. Because the truth is, that when you don't really know someone, what you think of them is based on choice and not fact.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

I made a thread a short while back before the draft regarding LeBron and most of you guys think its impossible. I agree its a long shot but if GP believes LBJ will really help the team get a title soon, then we must make a pitch. So what if we are not on his "wishlist". We have the cap space and a good young team. Our talent situation is clearly better than a few of those wishlist teams.

BUT, I don't think we really need LBJ. Our future is brighter than ever even without him so it really comes down to the FO determining if he will really help the team rather than slow the growth of our other young stars Tyreke/DMC.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

That's the reason you can't surround Dwight Howard -- at his current maturity level -- with softies like Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter and expect to win a championship. There's no fire on that team.

Its more than Howard's maturity. His overall skills are just not good enough to be the guy. He is light years below Shaq's prime. Shaq was unstoppable on offense while DH could be defended straight up by a handfull of centers and easily limited by the rest if the team choose to double him with a plan.

 

[Superman]

Its more than Howard's maturity. His overall skills are just not good enough to be the guy. He is light years below Shaq's prime. Shaq was unstoppable on offense while DH could be defended straight up by a handfull of centers and easily limited by the rest if the team choose to double him with a plan.

I know he's limited, but I think he's good enough to be your best player, provided you have a star-level #2 bringing up the rear. Knocked off the Cavs and made the Finals with Hedo as his #2, and missing his point guard. I think his problem is his attitude, in that he's not a top dog kind of guy. Part of it is being young and wanting everyone to like you, wanting to get along with all your teammates and all that jazz. Makes for a great piece in the local paper, but it's not what wins championships.

 

[The Hammer]

People are neglecting one simple fact: if we sign Lebron, we sell out every game, get a ton of tv coverage (and accompanying money), the Kings don't leave Sac, we get a new arena, and the Sacramento economy gets a shot in the arm. Oh yeah but we're too good for that and it's better to do it "Our Way". Yeah right.

 

[Superman]

I got the impression this was about the merits of building it yourself vs. throwing money around for a franchise player.

The monetary benefits (and the byproducts thereof) have been mentioned in this thread. That's just not the focus.

 

[uolj]

this probably puts me at odds with a lot of people on this board, but my preference here is:

1) win with a team that i am proud of.
2) have a team that i am proud of.
3) win.

I can understand this sentiment and actually agree with it. But my definition of "a team that I am proud of" would be pretty loose. Still, it's hard to fault people for not wanting certain players to join their team even if it means a greater chance at winning.

To me, these athletes are just people and for a team to really be one that I'm proud of would be an extremely high bar that would take away most of my sports watching pleasure. Instead I settle for a team that I am not disgusted by. If the Lakers traded their team for ours, then that might qualify, but generally speaking you have to be pretty bad in my mind to fall all the way down to #3.

As for LeBron, I actually root for him in Cleveland, so of course I'd be happy to root for him on the Kings. I'm not torn up about him not coming, though, since we've got an exciting team ourselves.

 

[bajaden]

That's the reason you can't surround Dwight Howard -- at his current maturity level -- with softies like Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter and expect to win a championship. There's no fire on that team.

I don't think you have to have infighting (literally and figuratively) in order to have a winning dynamic, but the alpha mentality has to be there in some respect or another to win. That's kind of the reason the Celtics didn't get it together until the vets were willing to concede to Rondo on the court, because he became the best player on the team (or at least the most important), and that's hard for three former franchise-level players and future HOFers to come to grips with. But he didn't back down, and went out and earned his stripes on the court, and now that's his team.

It's partly what was missing on our team in 2002, when things got tough in Game 6 and when we're playing for our lives in Game 7, with an alpha out there who isn't going to let anyone back down or give up, who is going to put the team on his shoulders and say "follow me", we beat the Lakers. Sadly, Webber wasn't that guy yet. Bibby had the mentality, but wasn't good enough to carry the team by himself against a juggernaut in the playoffs. Webber became that guy the following season, and then the knee happened. But that was the year that you began to hear about Webber riding his teammates, telling guys to get it together, not caring about who isn't getting shots and when, demanding the ball in crunch time, etc.

Sometimes you have to be that way if you want to win. It's all forgotten when you're hoisting the trophy and dousing each other in champagne.

Yep! Look at the old Oakland A's with Bando, Rudi and Jackson. Those guys fought amongst themselves almost as much as they fought to win on the field. But when the game was on the line they always came through. And everyone knew that they would. Sadly your right about our close call to grabbing the brass ring. Yeah, he got jobbed in one game. And Yeah if we win that game its all over. But as much as I hate to say this, we still had a chance to win the whole thing. And thats what the great teams do. We didn't rise to the occasion. We didn't have that Jordan or Kobe or choose whomever your want, to step up and grab a piece of history. Too bad. But hey, the sun will come up tomorrow, and it will be a new day. And a new power is slowly rising in the west. Sorry, I got carried away!

 

[bajaden]

Its more than Howard's maturity. His overall skills are just not good enough to be the guy. He is light years below Shaq's prime. Shaq was unstoppable on offense while DH could be defended straight up by a handfull of centers and easily limited by the rest if the team choose to double him with a plan.

Shaq was all business on the court. He was a tough SOB that thought he was the best there was. Howard doesn't appear to have the same mentality. I recall in one of the playoff games with around 2 minutes left in the game and the Magic down by a point or two, Howard was down under his own basket hamming it up with a fan that was sitting there. One of his teammates had to come down and pull him away and back to the center of the court. I remember thinking at the time. Dude this is a playoff game and your down two points with 2 minutes to go. Its time to be serious. Not laughing and joking. The Magic went on to lose that game. Not an indictment of Howard. He's still young. But he needs to take the game more seriously. And he needs to start working on the holes in his game. Because he has a few..

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

I know he's limited, but I think he's good enough to be your best player, provided you have a star-level #2 bringing up the rear. Knocked off the Cavs and made the Finals with Hedo as his #2, and missing his point guard. I think his problem is his attitude, in that he's not a top dog kind of guy. Part of it is being young and wanting everyone to like you, wanting to get along with all your teammates and all that jazz. Makes for a great piece in the local paper, but it's not what wins championships.

I agree with this part. Too many young players are more worried about being a cool guy amongst the players and where to hang out after the game etc. What ever happen to beating your opponents at all cost like the old days?

 

[bajaden]

I got the impression this was about the merits of building it yourself vs. throwing money around for a franchise player.

The monetary benefits (and the byproducts thereof) have been mentioned in this thread. That's just not the focus.

Exactly! By the way in a non related subject. I notice that you reside in Long Beach. Not far from Los Vegas me thinks. Are you considering going to the summer league at all? And if so, we could meet up. I'll be there with Cruzdude starting on the 14th.

 

[Telemachus]

Not an indictment of Howard. He's still young. But he needs to take the game more seriously. And he needs to start working on the holes in his game. Because he has a few..

This is the biggest problem I have had with Howard. He made a conscious effort to improve his defense a couple years ago and became DPOY. Now it has been obvious for some time that he has some fairly big holes in his offensive game. They are big enough that several big men around the league are able to defend him straight up (that should NOT be the case when talking about a supposed Superstar IMO). Yet, he seems to have made little effort to improve this part of his game. Maybe he will change that this off-season, but until he does I don't see him taking any team to a championship.

 

[carmichaeldave]

Can I just say, for the record:

I don't care if our starting lineup is

PG: Stalin
SG: Hitler
SF: Hussein
PF: McVeigh
C: Bin Laden

If that gets us a title, awesome. I have been waiting for 25 years for a title, and I don't care if the Maloofs kidnap David Stern's grandkids, and have Slamson Kerrigan Kobe's kneecaps.

As long as we get the title.

So yes, LeBron, you're welcome here.

Yes, its a very very very very almost non-existent chance, but consider the following:

1. Stein wrote today that ownership is a HUGE factor. James and the Maloofs have been good friends since his rookie year.

2. He started high school during the peak of the Kings run. Gotta have good memories of the team/crowd.

3. We have (can create) the cap room.

4. Tyreke, James, and Cousins makeup a hell of a core, and would instantly be right with the Lakers for WC favorites.

5. Close proximity to LA. He can't sign with the Lakers, doesnt want to sign with the Clippers, Phoenix can't do it, and GS is a suck hole. Not bad for endorsements.

6. Did I mention teaming up with 'Reke, and having a loaded front line?

7. Sacramento is more like Cleveland as a city than any of the other suitors.

8. No legacy of Jordan, Willis Reed, or Dwyane Wade to follow.

Yes, much, much reaching here. But sometimes in the sports world, the team that stays under the radar can surprise people. No one, and I mean NO ONE is counting the Kings in this discussion. I completely admit that they are supreme underdogs, but I also believe there are enough mitigating factors to allow for a slight possibility, enough to at least be acknowledged.

 

[The Hammer]

Can I just say, for the record:

I don't care if our starting lineup is

PG: Stalin
SG: Hitler
SF: Hussein
PF: McVeigh
C: Bin Laden

If that gets us a title, awesome. I have been waiting for 25 years for a title, and I don't care if the Maloofs kidnap David Stern's grandkids, and have Slamson Kerrigan Kobe's kneecaps.

As long as we get the title.

So yes, LeBron, you're welcome here.

Yes, its a very very very very almost non-existent chance, but consider the following:

1. Stein wrote today that ownership is a HUGE factor. James and the Maloofs have been good friends since his rookie year.

2. He started high school during the peak of the Kings run. Gotta have good memories of the team/crowd.

3. We have (can create) the cap room.

4. Tyreke, James, and Cousins makeup a hell of a core, and would instantly be right with the Lakers for WC favorites.

5. Close proximity to LA. He can't sign with the Lakers, doesnt want to sign with the Clippers, Phoenix can't do it, and GS is a suck hole. Not bad for endorsements.

6. Did I mention teaming up with 'Reke, and having a loaded front line?

7. Sacramento is more like Cleveland as a city than any of the other suitors.

8. No legacy of Jordan, Willis Reed, or Dwyane Wade to follow.

Yes, much, much reaching here. But sometimes in the sports world, the team that stays under the radar can surprise people. No one, and I mean NO ONE is counting the Kings in this discussion. I completely admit that they are supreme underdogs, but I also believe there are enough mitigating factors to allow for a slight possibility, enough to at least be acknowledged.

Well said CD, well said. And you give us all a glimmer of hope.

 

[Megalodon]

Can I just say, for the record:
But sometimes in the sports world, the team that stays under the radar can surprise people. No one, and I mean NO ONE is counting the Kings in this discussion. I completely admit that they are supreme underdogs, but I also believe there are enough mitigating factors to allow for a slight possibility, enough to at least be acknowledged.

I believe there is a chance as well, and would be stoked to see it happen.

I don't care if our starting lineup is
PG: Stalin
SG: Hitler
SF: Hussein
PF: McVeigh
C: Bin Laden

With a lineup like that, we would murder people !

 

[carmichaeldave]

For those of you who will try to take my above post to task, to wit:

Bin Laden plays the 5 because I believe he is the tallest. Plus the beard could be scratchy on defense when he bodies up.

Just sayin.

Scratchy beard.

 

[rexb_kings]

who wouldn't want the King in Kings uniform!! if you have a chance to get him and win then by all means!!

Lebron in Chicago? come on if he's even thinking about it, the Kings can offer a lot better team than them.

if he really wants a low post presence, shooters, and slasher then he should go to the Magic (but we already know that's won't happen due to salary constraints)

actually if Cleveland can get an inside presence (Bosh/Amare/Boozer ) they are set.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Can I just say, for the record:

I don't care if our starting lineup is

PG: Stalin
SG: Hitler
SF: Hussein
PF: McVeigh
C: Bin Laden

Hmmm... about right but I'd probably switch McVeigh and Hussein Heights confirmed or mostly confirmed - very close to accurate...

PG Stalin 5'6"
SG Hitler 5'7"
SF McVeigh 6'0"
PF Hussein 6'2"
C Bin Laden 6'5"

Coach: Manson 5'4" (although he listed his height as 5'7" on Cal Drivers Lic)