Ekbe Udoh

[SacKings7]

Assuming Wall, Turner, Favors and Cousins are gone, what do you guys think of us taking Udoh at #5? I like what I've read about him, and would be happy with him or Johnson.

Has anybody seen a lot of him this past season? If so, could you comment on his strengths and weaknesses? bajaden or Vlade4GM, you guys seem to be the NCAA mongers of the board, what do you think of Udoh?

 

[King-Da-Yah]

Everyone needs to take a minute (or several) and read the entire 2009-10 Kings Draft started by Bajaden, the Yoda of kingsfans.com (Brick is the Mace Windu). This thread has tons of great input from the likes of Baja, Brick, and Vlade4Gm (just to name a few). And although long, it really goes in depth on a lot of the key players we will be looking at with our pick. I am not saying we should not start new threads regarding our potential newest Kings, but really just that this is an amazing thread. As soon as I finished it I knew I had to become a member here. Ekpe is a very popular topic on that thread as well SacKings7.

To answer your question about Ekpe, I really like this guy. He brings a lot to the table IMO, athleticism, quicks, and really just an ability to get into a game and make an impact. I don't want to put him #1 on my draft board as of yet, but there is just something about the guy I really like. I was watching Baylor in the tournament and Udoh just stood out to me at key moments me in the game. If anyone watched Game 2 of the Finals, I think you will be able to agree with me when I say that it is an incredible luxury to have a quietly impacting player like Derek Fisher (or Ekpe Udoh perhaps?) on your roster.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

Everyone needs to take a minute (or several) and read the entire 2009-10 Kings Draft started by Bajaden, the Yoda of kingsfans.com (Brick is the Mace Windu). This thread has tons of great input from the likes of Baja, Brick, and Vlade4Gm (just to name a few). And although long, it really goes in depth on a lot of the key players we will be looking at with our pick. I am not saying we should not start new threads regarding our potential newest Kings, but really just that this is an amazing thread. As soon as I finished it I knew I had to become a member here. Ekpe is a very popular topic on that thread as well SacKings7.

To answer your question about Ekpe, I really like this guy. He brings a lot to the table IMO, athleticism, quicks, and really just an ability to get into a game and make an impact. I don't want to put him #1 on my draft board as of yet, but there is just something about the guy I really like. I was watching Baylor in the tournament and Udoh just stood out to me at key moments me in the game. If anyone watched Game 2 of the Finals, I think you will be able to agree with me when I say that it is an incredible luxury to have a quietly impacting player like Derek Fisher (or Ekpe Udoh perhaps?) on your roster.

Agreed with your assessment, Udoh is going to be a GREAT role player, but you typically don't look for role players with the 5th overall pick

 

[bajaden]

Agreed with your assessment, Udoh is going to be a GREAT role player, but you typically don't look for role players with the 5th overall pick

Too early to call just exactly how good, or what his ultimate role will be. He's sort of the old man of the current group, but I think he still has upside. His improvement from his sophmore year to his junior year would border on astounding if he hadn't sat out a year because of transfering from Mich to Baylor. But he made the most of his year off by really improving his game. Especially on offense. He's not a freak athlete, but he's a good athlete and has decent to good quickness. He runs the floor well and has the ability to put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket. Something you don't see a lot from bigs coming out of college. He's also a pretty good passer. Something he's really worked on.

His main forte is defense. He's a terrific shotblocker. And like Whiteside and Varnado, he just has good instincts for it. He doesn't foul much either. A good plus for a shotblocker. Going on just stats he looks like a very good offensive rebounder, but not much of a defensive rebounder. But because Baylor played a 2/3 zone that pulled him away from the basket and out to the right wing, I think thats partially the reason for the low numbers on the defensive end.

Offensively he has the beginning of a good foundation. It just needs to built on and polished. He could end up being just an important player off the bench, or he could end up being a starter at PF for some team. I don't see him as a center, although I think he definitely could play the position under the right circumstance. I really like Udoh. I've liked him all year. And there's no doubt that he can help some team right away on the defensive end of the floor. There's no mystery with him. You know exactly what your getting with him. And to my mind, its quite a bit.

 

[Sparky6string]

Right the mystery is how good will he get, and how tough will he be at the next level. I actually think he has upside to him despite his age since he was something of a late bloomer to begin with and he appears to have a strong work ethic. Ever notice how much he says the word "work" in interviews?

He has kind of an odd body though doesn't he? Very wide shoulders but not as much of vert reach. He appears more athletic than he is I think, IDK. He has kind of an econo-sized Junior Jones body.

I like him but I'd want him to work on toughness and at being more aggressive in the paint.

 

[dmj]

I would stay away from Udoh, especially with the 5th pick. He's already 23 years old, is a poor rebounder, and doesn't really offer anything we couldn't get from one of the other lottery big men, most of whom are 2-3 years younger.

I'm not saying he can't be a good player in the NBA, but I'd have a hard time justifying selecting him over Whiteside, Monroe, Davis, or Aldrich, though not necessarily in that order.

 

[beb0p]

I think Udoh is underrated. I don't see him as a star but there's something to be said about a guy who can give you 13 and 9 with close to two blocks, is athletic , can pass, and can hit the 20 foot jumper.

I rank Udoh ahead of Monroe, Orton, and Davis. He is better than Monroe offensively (except for passing) and way ahead defensively. He is already doing things that you wish Davis could do one day.

Whiteside, well, he's a gambler's pick. He could turn out to be even better than Derrick Favors or he could be the next Ryan Hollins. So I can' really compare a known product like Udoh to an unknown like Whiteside.

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[Kingster]

I like Udoh. As far as the role player thing, I don't really know what that means. I guess Tyreke has a role on the Kings, so is he a role player? When I watched Udoh in the NCAAs he made a obvious impact on the game on the defensive end because of his shotblocking. And, on the offensive end, he wanted the ball at big moments of the game, and was pretty darned effective there also. With Udoh, you know what position he's going to play (unlike Johnson), he doesn't have red flags (unlike Cousins), he's more defensively impactful than Monroe. And back to Johnson, I thought Udoh made more of an impact on the game than Johnson. Will he be a star? I doubt it. But after Turner and Wall I'm doubtful of the star potential of any of the left-overs. All in all, I'd be surprised if the Kings don't seriously consider him, especially because of their need for interior D. Maybe he's the "surprise" that Reynolds talked about.

 

[est.1999]

I think it's unfair to call him a poor rebounder, considering the fact that Baylor played a zone and he wasn't always in position to get boards.

 

[Chupacabra]

I would stay away from Udoh, especially with the 5th pick. He's already 23 years old, is a poor rebounder, and doesn't really offer anything we couldn't get from one of the other lottery big men, most of whom are 2-3 years younger.

I'm not saying he can't be a good player in the NBA, but I'd have a hard time justifying selecting him over Whiteside, Monroe, Davis, or Aldrich, though not necessarily in that order.

Outside of the wall/cousins/favors/turner, Ekpe Udoh is my pick. Hes a versatile player on both ends of the floor. Hes definitely a starter. The fact that he made a huge improvement the year he sat out is very promising. Shows great worth ethic. You know what youre getting with Udoh and he has potential to get alot better.

 

[hammystyle]

I have Udoh #4 on my possible to be there board after Cousins, Monroe, and Johnson. I don't really know where his upsides lays, but you could hardly pick a better fit for the Kings right now. Shot-blockers who can shoot and pass are a pretty special combo.

As for the comp to Monroe, even if you think Udoh is a better all around player right now, (and I'd say that's very debatable) Monroe is 20 and Udoh is 23. Essentiallly comparing a Freshman to a Senior. Even with giving Udoh some points for being a late bloomer, you have to consider that Monre should project to improve a LOT more.

 

[pshn80]

I have Udoh #4 on my possible to be there board after Cousins, Monroe, and Johnson. I don't really know where his upsides lays, but you could hardly pick a better fit for the Kings right now. Shot-blockers who can shoot and pass are a pretty special combo.

As for the comp to Monroe, even if you think Udoh is a better all around player right now, (and I'd say that's very debatable) Monroe is 20 and Udoh is 23. Essentiallly comparing a Freshman to a Senior. Even with giving Udoh some points for being a late bloomer, you have to consider that Monre should project to improve a LOT more.

To me the age difference here is a plus for Udoh. We have had enough of the under 23 crowd for a while. If Udoh is more mature, physically, mentally, and basketball wise, then that's a real plus in my eyes.

 

[dmj]

I think Udoh is underrated. I don't see him as a star but there's something to be said about a guy who can give you 13 and 9 with close to two blocks, is athletic , can pass, and can hit the 20 foot jumper.

I rank Udoh ahead of Monroe, Orton, and Davis. He is better than Monroe offensively (except for passing) and way ahead defensively. He is already doing things that you wish Davis could do one day.

Whiteside, well, he's a gambler's pick. He could turn out to be even better than Derrick Favors or he could be the next Ryan Hollins. So I can' really compare a known product like Udoh to an unknown like Whiteside.

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So basically he is JT with better shot blocking ability? That isn't exactly what I would like out of the 5th pick.

I can understand putting Udoh ahead of Orton, because Orton hasn't really proven anything at the collegiate level. But Monroe has been about as productive as Udoh (with the exception being on the defensive end) despite being about three years younger. If you compare their numbers at the same age, then Monroe is head shoulders over Udoh (the same can be said for Whiteside and Davis as well).

 

[Amory]

Everyone needs to take a minute (or several) and read the entire 2009-10 Kings Draft started by Bajaden, the Yoda of kingsfans.com (Brick is the Mace Windu). This thread has tons of great input from the likes of Baja, Brick, and Vlade4Gm (just to name a few). And although long, it really goes in depth on a lot of the key players we will be looking at with our pick. I am not saying we should not start new threads regarding our potential newest Kings, but really just that this is an amazing thread. As soon as I finished it I knew I had to become a member here. Ekpe is a very popular topic on that thread as well SacKings7.

To answer your question about Ekpe, I really like this guy. He brings a lot to the table IMO, athleticism, quicks, and really just an ability to get into a game and make an impact. I don't want to put him #1 on my draft board as of yet, but there is just something about the guy I really like. I was watching Baylor in the tournament and Udoh just stood out to me at key moments me in the game. If anyone watched Game 2 of the Finals, I think you will be able to agree with me when I say that it is an incredible luxury to have a quietly impacting player like Derek Fisher (or Ekpe Udoh perhaps?) on your roster.

Hmmm, 60 pages of posts. I'll get started from the beginning! =D

 

[hammystyle]

To me the age difference here is a plus for Udoh. We have had enough of the under 23 crowd for a while. If Udoh is more mature, physically, mentally, and basketball wise, then that's a real plus in my eyes.

That's the thing, Monroe is already a better all around player right now in my opinion. And to those who'd disagree, I'd think they'd acknowledge that its pretty close. This isn't between Udoh and Whiteside or even Ed Davis. You could flip a coin about who will contribute more next year between Monroe and Udoh.

That said Udoh is the more mentally mature player. He might be the head of this draft class in terms of mental maturity.

 

[matthew76]

Hmmm, 60 pages of posts. I'll get started from the beginning! =D

Exactly the thing that discouraged me from starting. I mean I have time, but not THAT much time on my hands.

 

[beb0p]

So basically he is JT with better shot blocking ability? That isn't exactly what I would like out of the 5th pick.

I can understand putting Udoh ahead of Orton, because Orton hasn't really proven anything at the collegiate level. But Monroe has been about as productive as Udoh (with the exception being on the defensive end) despite being about three years younger. If you compare their numbers at the same age, then Monroe is head shoulders over Udoh (the same can be said for Whiteside and Davis as well).

The difference is that Monroe was the MAN in Georgetown, while Udoh was playing in a guard dominated system in Baylor. Udoh ranks third on his team in total shots attempted (FG + FT) while Monroe ranks first. Yes, stats wise Monroe is similarily productive as Udoh but the numbers dont tell the whole story. Put Udoh in Monroe's place at Georgetown and he will likely have a huge surge in offensive numbers.

It's debatable how much Monroe can improve on his offense (I honestly don't see any difference in his offensive game from year 1 to year 2 in college), but it's unarguable that Udoh is the better defender and the more athletic player. Defensively, no matter how much Monroe improves he will never reach Udoh's level, not that Udoh is the next Ben Wallace but Monroe projects to be even less than Udoh.

And defense is big on my board. Plus the fact that Udoh is more advanced offensively squarely put him above Monroe in my book.

And yes, there are some overlapping skill between Udoh and JT (and some differences too). But if the Kings are just drafting for BPA then I think Udoh should be in the equation and he should be ranked ahead of Monroe. Not that I want us to draft Udoh (my preference is between Johnson/Aminu/Alrich) but he should be in consideration and I want him more than I want Monroe.

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[bajaden]

So basically he is JT with better shot blocking ability? That isn't exactly what I would like out of the 5th pick.

I can understand putting Udoh ahead of Orton, because Orton hasn't really proven anything at the collegiate level. But Monroe has been about as productive as Udoh (with the exception being on the defensive end) despite being about three years younger. If you compare their numbers at the same age, then Monroe is head shoulders over Udoh (the same can be said for Whiteside and Davis as well).

Comparing Monroe and Udoh is almost like comparing apples and oranges. They are entirely different types of players. First off, Udoh is a much better athlete than Monroe. Anyone that watched both players play would certainly agree with that. Udoh can jump higher and quicker, has better lateral movement and is terrific at running the floor. The big question mark about Monroe, is can he play defense. There is no question mark about Udoh in that regard. He is right now, a better defender than Monroe will ever be at any point in his career. Thats no one's fault. Udoh was just born with great shotblocking instincts. And, he loves to play defense.

Offensively you have to give the edge to Monroe. He's a very skilled offensive player, and if thats what we need, then go ahead and draft him. Personally I think the Kings need more toughness and interior defense. And saying that Monroe might develop into a pretty good defender just isn't good enough for me. Yeah, Hawes just might develop into a pretty good defender.

The advantage Monroe has over Udoh is that he has the size to play center, and I see Udoh as more of PF. But he did slide to the center position when Lomer's went to the bench. Amazingly his defensive rebounding increased when he moved to the center postion.

You called Udoh a poor rebounder. I'm not sure what you definition of poor is. His per 40 minute rate was 11.1. Monroe's per 40 rate was 11.4. Neither rate is world shattering, but its hardly poor. By comparison Cousins per 40 rate was 17.3, and the closest to him that I could find was, believe it or not, Parakhouski at 16.0. I think that if Baylor had played one on one defense Udoh's defensive rebounding numbers would be much higher.

As for his age and so called limited potential. Here are some names you'll remember and the age they were when entering the NBA. Obviously they had already peaked out and had little potential left.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar - Age 22
Ray Allen - age 21
Nate Archibald - age 22
Larry Bird - age 23
Kevin McHale - age 23
Vince Carter - age 22
Elgin Baylor - age 24
Eric Dampier - age 22
Alex English - age 23
Patrick Ewing - age 23
Michael Jordan - age 21
Bill Walton - age 22
Eddie Johnson - age 22
Dale Davis - age 22
Tim Duncan - age 21
Dave Cowens - age 22
Rick Barry - age 21
Antawn Jamison - age 22
Jerry West - age 22
LaMarcus Aldridge - age 21
Charles Barkley - age 21
Dave DeBusschere - age 22

I could go on and on. The majority of these guys played 12 or more seasons. The rare one's like Stockton and Malone almost played 20 seasons. and they were both 21 or older when they came into the NBA.

One final note on Udoh. He was recuited by Michigan. They were running the princeton offense, and he felt his skill level didn't match that type of offense, which requires the center or PF to play away from the basket and initiate the offense. It also requires that player to be a good shooter from the outside. So he transfered to Baylor. The irony is, that in his year off, he developed the skills that he needed to play in that type of offense. My point is that you can almost throw out his first two years as a waste.

 

[hammystyle]

The difference is that Monroe was the MAN in Georgetown, while Udoh was playing in a guard dominated system in Baylor. Udoh ranks third on his team in total shots attempted (FG + FT) while Monroe ranks first. Yes, stats wise Monroe is similarily productive as Udoh but the numbers dont tell the whole story. Put Udoh in Monroe's place at Georgetown and he will likely have a huge surge in offensive numbers.

It's debatable how much Monroe can improve on his offense (I honestly don't see any difference in his offensive game from year 1 to year 2 in college), but it's unarguable that Udoh is the better defender and the more athletic player. Defensively, no matter how much Monroe improves he will never reach Udoh's level, not that Udoh is the next Ben Wallace but Monroe projects to be even less than Udoh.

And defense is big on my board. Plus the fact that Udoh is more advanced offensively squarely put him above Monroe in my book.

And yes, there are some overlapping skill between Udoh and JT (and some differences too). But if the Kings are just drafting for BPA then I think Udoh should be in the equation and he should be ranked ahead of Monroe. Not that I want us to draft Udoh (my preference is between Johnson/Aminu/Alrich) but he should be in consideration and I want him more than I want Monroe.
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I doubt Udoh would have surged in offensive numbers at Georgetown. Its not a big number system. In fact, I think its Monroe who would have fared better in most other college programs at least in scoring and rebounding. It probly helped his assists. There's been two recent Georgetown grads in Green and Hibbert who have outpaced their college production in the pro's.

Also, I don't know if we should debate if a 19 year old center would improve his offense. That's a pretty safe assumption I think.

Still, none of this is a knock on Udoh, who's a really good versatile player who'd help shore up a lot of our major weaknesses.

 

[dmj]

Comparing Monroe and Udoh is almost like comparing apples and oranges. They are entirely different types of players. First off, Udoh is a much better athlete than Monroe. Anyone that watched both players play would certainly agree with that. Udoh can jump higher and quicker, has better lateral movement and is terrific at running the floor. The big question mark about Monroe, is can he play defense. There is no question mark about Udoh in that regard. He is right now, a better defender than Monroe will ever be at any point in his career. Thats no one's fault. Udoh was just born with great shotblocking instincts. And, he loves to play defense.

Offensively you have to give the edge to Monroe. He's a very skilled offensive player, and if thats what we need, then go ahead and draft him. Personally I think the Kings need more toughness and interior defense. And saying that Monroe might develop into a pretty good defender just isn't good enough for me. Yeah, Hawes just might develop into a pretty good defender.

The advantage Monroe has over Udoh is that he has the size to play center, and I see Udoh as more of PF. But he did slide to the center position when Lomer's went to the bench. Amazingly his defensive rebounding increased when he moved to the center postion.

You called Udoh a poor rebounder. I'm not sure what you definition of poor is. His per 40 minute rate was 11.1. Monroe's per 40 rate was 11.4. Neither rate is world shattering, but its hardly poor. By comparison Cousins per 40 rate was 17.3, and the closest to him that I could find was, believe it or not, Parakhouski at 16.0. I think that if Baylor had played one on one defense Udoh's defensive rebounding numbers would be much higher.

As for his age and so called limited potential. Here are some names you'll remember and the age they were when entering the NBA. Obviously they had already peaked out and had little potential left.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar - Age 22
Ray Allen - age 21
Nate Archibald - age 22
Larry Bird - age 23
Kevin McHale - age 23
Vince Carter - age 22
Elgin Baylor - age 24
Eric Dampier - age 22
Alex English - age 23
Patrick Ewing - age 23
Michael Jordan - age 21
Bill Walton - age 22
Eddie Johnson - age 22
Dale Davis - age 22
Tim Duncan - age 21
Dave Cowens - age 22
Rick Barry - age 21
Antawn Jamison - age 22
Jerry West - age 22
LaMarcus Aldridge - age 21
Charles Barkley - age 21
Dave DeBusschere - age 22

I could go on and on. The majority of these guys played 12 or more seasons. The rare one's like Stockton and Malone almost played 20 seasons. and they were both 21 or older when they came into the NBA.

One final note on Udoh. He was recuited by Michigan. They were running the princeton offense, and he felt his skill level didn't match that type of offense, which requires the center or PF to play away from the basket and initiate the offense. It also requires that player to be a good shooter from the outside. So he transfered to Baylor. The irony is, that in his year off, he developed the skills that he needed to play in that type of offense. My point is that you can almost throw out his first two years as a waste.

I don't think I ever claimed they were identical players, my comparison is based on both being lottery caliber bigmen that we are considering drafting.

I also think you are misunderstanding my point about Udoh's age. I'm not arguing that at 23 he has developed as much as he can and is a finished product (though I suspect that may be the case). Nor am I saying that a player that old can't come in and be a very good NBA player.

Rather, my issue with Udoh is that if he wasn't more productive than Whiteside, Monroe, Aldrich, or Davis despite being older by 2-3 years, then what reason do we have to believe he will be the best NBA player out of the group?

 

[beb0p]

I doubt Udoh would have surged in offensive numbers at Georgetown. Its not a big number system. In fact, I think its Monroe who would have fared better in most other college programs at least in scoring and rebounding. It probly helped his assists. There's been two recent Georgetown grads in Green and Hibbert who have outpaced their college production in the pro's.

Also, I don't know if we should debate if a 19 year old center would improve his offense. That's a pretty safe assumption I think.

Still, none of this is a knock on Udoh, who's a really good versatile player who'd help shore up a lot of our major weaknesses.

I heard the Georgetown depresses players' stats theory more than once and I scratched my head thinking, "Who exactly?" Jeff Green and Hibbert are exactly who we thought they would be. I was one of tens of thousands who predicted around 15 and 7 for Green and that Hibbert's lack of rebounding would translate to the pros. Stats or not stats, few people are surprised at what they can do in the pros.

I don't dislike Monroe but I see someone who pretty much made known what quality of player he is going to be - great passer, ok defender, crafty player, will find ways to score but definitely not a #1 and barely a #2 guy. Needs to surround him with good scorers. If you like "Point Center", Monroe is your man.

However, I like my big man to be defensive stalwart, out of all the bigs not named Favors or Cousins, Udoh and Alrich have proven themselves to be rebounder/shot blocker; out of the two, Udoh is easily the better offensive player. So it's Udoh over Monroe, a classic case of a good defender with solid offense over a somewhat good offensive player with average defense.

Futhermore, I like Udoh's offensive game more than Monroe's. Udoh can pass, put the ball on the floor, shoot, and post up. He isn't great at anything but he can do a bit of everything. Udoh's offense is underrated, I saw him hit turnaround fadeaway shots and hook shots with his off-hand that I never see Monroe do.

One thing in Monroe's favor is that he is tall enough to play center. But that alone doesn't propel him over Udoh in my book. It's just how I rank the players, I'm not saying this is the only way to rank them. I understand why some like Monroe over Udoh. I'm just saying that I like Udoh over Monroe.


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[hammystyle]

I heard the Georgetown depresses players' stats theory more than once and I scratched my head thinking, "Who exactly?" Jeff Green and Hibbert are exactly who we thought they would be. I was one of tens of thousands who predicted around 15 and 7 for Green and that Hibbert's lack of rebounding would translate to the pros. Stats or not stats, few people are surprised at what they can do in the pros.

I don't dislike Monroe but I see someone who pretty much made known what quality of player he is going to be - great passer, ok defender, crafty player, will find ways to score but definitely not a #1 and barely a #2 guy. Needs to surround him with good scorers. If you like "Point Center", Monroe is your man.

However, I like my big man to be defensive stalwart, out of all the bigs not named Favors or Cousins, Udoh and Alrich have proven themselves to be rebounder/shot blocker; out of the two, Udoh is easily the better offensive player. So it's Udoh over Monroe, a classic case of a good defender with solid offense over a somewhat good offensive player with average defense.

Futhermore, I like Udoh's offensive game more than Monroe's. Udoh can pass, put the ball on the floor, shoot, and post up. He isn't great at anything but he can do a bit of everything. Udoh's offense is underrated, I saw him hit turnaround fadeaway shots and hook shots with his off-hand that I never see Monroe do.

One thing in Monroe's favor is that he is tall enough to play center. But that alone doesn't propel him over Udoh in my book. It's just how I rank the players, I'm not saying this is the only way to rank them. I understand why some like Monroe over Udoh. I'm just saying that I like Udoh over Monroe.
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Jeff Green averaged 14 and 6 his junior year. Hibbert averaged 13 and 6 his senior year. That's not particularly impressive IMO. I was surprised Green upped his averages to 15 and 7, and Hibbert basically maintained the statline at 12/6. So completely unscientifically, but following this small trend, if Monroe maintained what he did as a 19 year old sophomore at GT, we'd have a center averaging 16 points 10 rebounds 4 assists 1.5 blocks and 1.2 steals by his 2nd year in the league. I actually believe that's a reasonable projection for the player he could be. That'd be a great post presence with a talented group of wing and backcourt players.

I like Udoh too though. I get the love. In fact I think he's a fair bet to maintain himself as a 14 point 10 rebound 2 block (he' not going to average 3.7) 3 assist player. Which is obviously pretty valuable itself. I'd just rather have the younger center.

 

[King-Da-Yah]

Hmmm, 60 pages of posts. I'll get started from the beginning! =D

Maybe it will be draft day by the time you finish the thread. Better yet maybe it will be opening day! Hey during TDOS you need all the 60 page threads you can get.

 

[beb0p]

I found this quote by Rod Thorn:

“I think the kid from Georgetown – Greg Monroe – a lot of people like him in the top five. And it’s possible the kid from Baylor (Ekpe Udoh) and Aminu from Wake can also get in there.”

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons_100526.html

Thorn is basically speculating who he'd consider if he runs the Kings. Aminu and Monroe possibly cracking the top five is no surprise, but having Udoh in the conservation surely is. I think it speaks volume about Udoh that Thorn thinks this highly of him.

I still have Johnson and Aminu ranked ahead of Udoh. But then again, my ranking changes almost daily.

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[bajaden]

I don't think I ever claimed they were identical players, my comparison is based on both being lottery caliber bigmen that we are considering drafting.

I also think you are misunderstanding my point about Udoh's age. I'm not arguing that at 23 he has developed as much as he can and is a finished product (though I suspect that may be the case). Nor am I saying that a player that old can't come in and be a very good NBA player.

Rather, my issue with Udoh is that if he wasn't more productive than Whiteside, Monroe, Aldrich, or Davis despite being older by 2-3 years, then what reason do we have to believe he will be the best NBA player out of the group?

I'm sorry, but I have to ask the question. Have you seen him play, and if so, how many times. You just can't look at stats and come to a decision about a player. As has been pointed out, Monroe was the man at Georgetown. Whiteside was the man at Marshall, and it was in a lesser conference. If you watched Baylor play against Texas or any other big school you would know that Udoh was a main ingedient to Baylors success. You would also know that Udoh wasn't the main focus of Baylors offense. It was a guard oriented team. They had Tweety Carter at point guard and a terrfic SG, LaceDarius Dunn who averaged almost 20 pt's a game.

Remember, Udoh was new to this team. It was his first year playing with them. They also had Quincy Acy off the bench. There was on game when Acy got hot, and Udoh kept setting him up. Feeding him the ball, setting screens and running picks for Acy. I think Acy score over 30 pt's in that game. My point is that Udoh is an unselfish team player. And that there's more to basketball than just scoring points and putting up good stats. Udoh brings a lot of intangibles to the game.

As you can see I really like him. He's one of my favorite players to watch. Just like I love to watch Damion James of Texas. There are certain players that just help the team win. And some nights their stats might show it. And other nights they might not.

As an aside. You may or may not know this, but if you watch a lot of college basketball, as I do, you'll know that you have to look deeper than just the stats. The players are victims of the system they play in. If its a system that favors their strengths, then they're lucky. Favors and Davis both got the short end of the stick this year. Both were stuck on teams that had horrible guard play. Particularly Favors. If you go back over the years and were surprised by how well a player did in the NBA after not looking like a great prospect in college. It usually had to do with that player finally having the freedom to play his game. Kevin Johnson at Cal was a prime example of that. He was stiffled at Cal.

My opinion is based solely on watching these guys play. The first 4 or 5 times I watched Udoh play, I didn't even know what his stats were. And I didn't care. All I knew was that he was a dammed good player. It wasn't until someone on the fourms threw some defensive rebounding stats at me that I went and looked them up.

Anyway, sorry to be so long winded. I understand where your coming from. All I ask is that you don't rush to judgement. And don't pay any attention to where the mock drafts have people slotted. Time and time again, players taken down in the lower half of the first round, would be taken in the lottery if the draft were retaken a couple of years later. Its not a popularity contest. Its about getting the best player available. And if that means people think your reaching, then so be it. Hopefully you'll get the last laugh.

 

[Kingster]

Jeff Green averaged 14 and 6 his junior year. Hibbert averaged 13 and 6 his senior year. That's not particularly impressive IMO. I was surprised Green upped his averages to 15 and 7, and Hibbert basically maintained the statline at 12/6. So completely unscientifically, but following this small trend, if Monroe maintained what he did as a 19 year old sophomore at GT, we'd have a center averaging 16 points 10 rebounds 4 assists 1.5 blocks and 1.2 steals by his 2nd year in the league. I actually believe that's a reasonable projection for the player he could be. That'd be a great post presence with a talented group of wing and backcourt players.

I like Udoh too though. I get the love. In fact I think he's a fair bet to maintain himself as a 14 point 10 rebound 2 block (he' not going to average 3.7) 3 assist player. Which is obviously pretty valuable itself. I'd just rather have the younger center.

Monroe will give you nothing on the defensive end. You will have to rewind to see if he's out there on the defensive end. Unfortunately, stats don't tell you much about that. If the Kings draft him, I'd call Kevorkian.

 

[SacKings7]

Monroe will give you nothing on the defensive end. You will have to rewind to see if he's out there on the defensive end. Unfortunately, stats don't tell you much about that. If the Kings draft him, I'd call Kevorkian.

That's just the thing. I haven't seen much of either Monroe or Udoh but going off of what I read, I'd rather have a defensive player with good offensive potential (Udoh) than an offensive player with limited defensive potential (Monroe)

 

[beb0p]

One thing I'd like to add is that Monroe is not a very good post player, he is crafty but he is not effective in the post. Defensively, he is smart and he plays hard but limited by his physical tools. The following scouting report appears on the Utah Jazz's website, mostly jive with my opinion of Monore (click on link for full report).

Greg Monroe
http://www.nba.com/jazz/features/scouting_gregmonroe.html

Post Game: Not spectacular. Doesn’t have the athleticism to explode over people. Tried to play with power but got in trouble. Not refined at all. His moves don’t seem to get him open. Fights for his position. Leaves the post when he is in wrong spot. Good understanding of how to not stall offense. Didn’t receive a lot in the post. Shot a ton of free throws in college.


DEFENSE

Overall: Laterally doesn’t move very quickly. Good concepts and understanding. Makes an effort but not an impact. Plays every possession.

Shot Blocking : Doesn’t play off the floor. Not affecting very many shots. Not affecting shots that aren’t in his area.

Just for comparison, the following is Udoh's. Interestingly, the scouting report rave about Udoh's offense and questions his defense even though he is more advanced defensively. I do agree with the report that Udoh does appear to do just the minimum defensively, but watch him over the course of many games and you see that he can raise his level according to the opposition.

Ekpe Udoh
http://www.nba.com/jazz/features/scouting_ekpeudoh.html

Offense

Overall: Really really like him offensively. He plays inside the game. He is comfortable with the basketball. Has good passing skills for a big. Can play in the post and play straight up at 16 feet. Runs the floor very well. Strong handle for a big. Moves well. Doesn’t have an amazing lift.


DEFENSE

Overall: Played a zone; therefore, hard to read this defensive ability. I would call him disinterested on the defensive end.

Shot Blocking: Will miss a defensive assignment to try to get a block. Blocked a shot when he was defending the shooter, impressive. Blocks with left hand, can’t get off hand.

 

[hammystyle]

One thing I'd like to add is that Monroe is not a very good post player, he is crafty but he is not effective in the post. Defensively, he is smart and he plays hard but limited by his physical tools. The following scouting report appears on the Utah Jazz's website, mostly jive with my opinion of Monore (click on link for full report).

Just for comparison, the following is Udoh's. Interestingly, the scouting report rave about Udoh's offense and questions his defense even though he is more advanced defensively. I do agree with the report that Udoh does appear to do just the minimum defensively, but watch him over the course of many games and you see that he can raise his level according to the opposition.

Interesting what people with different viewpoints people pick out. I read that the guy overall was really impressed with Monroe. Moreso than Udoh although the praise was pretty good on both sides. And again (not to you BeBop, but the Greg monroe is soft crowd), read through that scouting report of a guy who played 4 games in 4 nights and how again is he soft? Guy sounds like a warrior in that scouting report. A heavy footed, not particularly quick warrior.

I do agree with you on Udoh though. He may not look like he's expending super effort, but then he just seems to show up making good plays.

 

[Kingster]

It's interesting reading these boards to get a sense of whose stock is going up and whose is going down.

My subjective sense is that Udoh's is going up, Cousins is going down, Monroe is going down, and Johnson is probably staying about the same. No?