Will Petrie pass on Cousins?
- Thread starter Anthony1
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I dont think Tyreke is going to be THAT assertive in terms of drafting decisions....
not bashing tyreke mind you
tyreke nba exp : a year
Geoff and crew: 20 years or so...
So even if tyreke wants cousins.. if Geoff sees that there are other players who would fit better.... well you know were going to pass him up.
not bashing tyreke mind you
tyreke nba exp : a year
Geoff and crew: 20 years or so...
So even if tyreke wants cousins.. if Geoff sees that there are other players who would fit better.... well you know were going to pass him up.
If Cousins is there at 5, yes, I think Petrie passes on him because of the red flags. Cousins has a big hurdle to overcome.
The Artest experience has got to weigh on Kings management. Also, I don't completely buy the Reynolds' notion that this group of young guys could "handle" Cousins. Yes, these guys we have appear to be great guys, and Tyreke seems mature beyond his age. But it's one thing to handle your own business in a mature way, it's another entirely to deal with a teamate's emotional/mental issues. I think that's very tough for a very young team to do; much less so for grizzled vets who care much less about whether a young guy likes them or not and can really get in their face if need be to mold their behavior.
The Artest experience has got to weigh on Kings management. Also, I don't completely buy the Reynolds' notion that this group of young guys could "handle" Cousins. Yes, these guys we have appear to be great guys, and Tyreke seems mature beyond his age. But it's one thing to handle your own business in a mature way, it's another entirely to deal with a teamate's emotional/mental issues. I think that's very tough for a very young team to do; much less so for grizzled vets who care much less about whether a young guy likes them or not and can really get in their face if need be to mold their behavior.
I don't think Petrie passes and I also don't think he "reluctantly" picks Cousins. I think if he's there at #5 Geoff jumps at the chance.
That said, I very seriously doubt he will still be on the board at #5.
I love how everyone is talking about this kid as if he's a guaranteed locker room cancer and threat to the general population.
How many times was Cousins suspended in college? How many times was he arrested? How many drug tests did he fail?
The answer in each case is zero.
He's clearly not in the best shape he could be and it affects his ability to play big minutes effectively. He's blatantly argued with his coach. He clearly whines to the refs about calls. And he got angry during a scramble for a loose ball and hit a Louisville player with a forearm shiver to the head (after Cousins was kneed in the face)that should have resulted in an ejection. THOSE are his transgressions as I can see. Hardly public enemy #1.
Is there a chance Cousins never reaches his potential because of weight issues or an inability to harness his emotions? Sure. And I can't say for sure that won't happen.
But let's not make this kid something he's not.
That said, I very seriously doubt he will still be on the board at #5.
I love how everyone is talking about this kid as if he's a guaranteed locker room cancer and threat to the general population.
How many times was Cousins suspended in college? How many times was he arrested? How many drug tests did he fail?
The answer in each case is zero.
He's clearly not in the best shape he could be and it affects his ability to play big minutes effectively. He's blatantly argued with his coach. He clearly whines to the refs about calls. And he got angry during a scramble for a loose ball and hit a Louisville player with a forearm shiver to the head (after Cousins was kneed in the face)that should have resulted in an ejection. THOSE are his transgressions as I can see. Hardly public enemy #1.
Is there a chance Cousins never reaches his potential because of weight issues or an inability to harness his emotions? Sure. And I can't say for sure that won't happen.
But let's not make this kid something he's not.
I have no idea what Petrie will do. But if Cousins drops into our laps, I'll gladly leave that decision up to him. And if he passes, then I'll assume he had good reasons to do so. By the same token, if he drafts Cousins, I'll assume that he comfortable that he can fit in.
Remember, what we saw were the interviews with sports journalists. We have no idea how the team interviews went. Cousins is undoubtably uncomfortable with the press. Which at this point in his short career is understandable.
We all know he has a temper and that he's immature. But he wasn't a cancer on the Kentucky team. Wall and Patterson both stuck up for him. Wall even alluded to having similar problems when he was in highschool. Orton is the only one that threw him under the bus, if you choose to use that phrase, but really had nothing bad to say about him other than what we already knew. His closest friends say that he doesn't drink, smoke, and has never used drugs of any kind. He's never been kicked out of a game. He's never been suspended for any reason.
I'm sure that the Kings have talked to Calapari and to Cousins highschool coaches. Which I would put more value on,than interviews with the press. So, I'll leave it in Petrie's hands and be content with whatever decision he makes. Personally I hope Cousins passes Petrie's smell test. Because the dude can ball.
Remember, what we saw were the interviews with sports journalists. We have no idea how the team interviews went. Cousins is undoubtably uncomfortable with the press. Which at this point in his short career is understandable.
We all know he has a temper and that he's immature. But he wasn't a cancer on the Kentucky team. Wall and Patterson both stuck up for him. Wall even alluded to having similar problems when he was in highschool. Orton is the only one that threw him under the bus, if you choose to use that phrase, but really had nothing bad to say about him other than what we already knew. His closest friends say that he doesn't drink, smoke, and has never used drugs of any kind. He's never been kicked out of a game. He's never been suspended for any reason.
I'm sure that the Kings have talked to Calapari and to Cousins highschool coaches. Which I would put more value on,than interviews with the press. So, I'll leave it in Petrie's hands and be content with whatever decision he makes. Personally I hope Cousins passes Petrie's smell test. Because the dude can ball.
That is a very important point. If his teammates got his back, then you got some team unity. Then it's just a matter of getting along with the coaching staff. I think the real question about Cousins isn't his head, but his work ethic and motor on the court. He needs to work hard to stay in shape and work on his game.
Your a funny guy Kingster. Hard to believe that we agreed on Evans a year ago. I think people tend to become who they hang around with. If you hang out on street corners with a bunch of gangbangers, odds are you'll end up being a gangbanger. And the opposite is also true. There are exceptions of course, but in general, if you hang out with a bunch of good guys, you'll tend to mimic them after a while.
The important reference here is hang out. Cousins is a young guy, and most of the players on the Kings are of similar age. They would have a lot in common. In other words, reasons to hang out together. Put Cousins on a veteran team, with a bunch of older guys he has little in common with, he's then left to his own resources, and more likely to find trouble. I know I'm talking in generalities, but so are all those that are quick to condemm him.
Some have compared him to Zack Randolph. But Cousins has never had a problem with drugs or the police. Randolph has had those types of problems going all the way back to highschool. He has always been directly or indirectly involved drugs and violence. Close friends of his were shot to death. If memory serves his own brother was shot to death.
You've constantly compared Cousins to Artest. But he's nothing like Artest. Artest, god love him, just walks to a different drummer and as a result he does unexplainable things. Like last night with the Lakers up by three points and having the ball with 58 seconds left on the clock. Artest shoots a brick with around 18 seconds left on the shot clock. Luckily, the ball bounces off the rim all the way back out to the perimeter and Artest gets the ball back with a brand new shot clock. Does he dribble the ball to run the clock down. Does he pass it to another team mate. No! With 22 seconds still left on the shot clock, he shoots a three pointer and of course misses badly. The Suns tied the game and the Lakers still won on a miracle rebound and putback off a Kobe miss. The look on Kobe's face when asked about Artest shooting the ball instead of running the clock was priceless.
My point is that I just don't see Cousins doing anything like that. He's a different kind of person. Artest is from Mars. Not a bad thing if your on Mars, but it doesn't work as well when your on earth. I'm not saying that Cousins couldn't be a problem. Of course he could. But the opposite could be true as well. So all I'm saying is that you just don't disregard him without doing your homework on him. If you find enough reasons to pass on him, then fine.
The difference between you and I is that I'm willing to keep an open mind on Cousins and you simply want to condemm him and thats the end of it. We're not stupid. We've all been around the block a few times. Were able to understand that there are risks. From day one when I first brought up Cousins you found something to criticize about him. I don't remember you ever saying one good thing about him. All you've done is argue against him. Hardly representive of an open mind. And frankly I'm surprised by you. I always thought you were a pretty good judge of talent. So I always respected your opinion, even if I disagreed with it. But I don't get this apparent obbsesion to hammer Cousins over and over again, to the point of almost painting a image of him attached to a ball and chain in stripped prison attire.
If there was any indication of his being connected to drugs in any way, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. If he was known to run around with a bunch of guys carrying guns. I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. If he surrounded himself with a bunch of homies from the hood, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. But he's none of those things that we know of. What he is, is a 19 year old kid thats immature and has a temper. Thats it! My concern isn't with his temper. My concern is whether he wants to be a great player or not? Will he do the work necessary? Is he really dedicated? I don't have the answer to those questions. I'm sure the Kings will have the same concerns, and I'll trust their judgement on it.
So from here on out, I'm just going to talk about Cousins the basketball player and what he's capable of on the court. Which is what we should be concerned about.
The important reference here is hang out. Cousins is a young guy, and most of the players on the Kings are of similar age. They would have a lot in common. In other words, reasons to hang out together. Put Cousins on a veteran team, with a bunch of older guys he has little in common with, he's then left to his own resources, and more likely to find trouble. I know I'm talking in generalities, but so are all those that are quick to condemm him.
Some have compared him to Zack Randolph. But Cousins has never had a problem with drugs or the police. Randolph has had those types of problems going all the way back to highschool. He has always been directly or indirectly involved drugs and violence. Close friends of his were shot to death. If memory serves his own brother was shot to death.
You've constantly compared Cousins to Artest. But he's nothing like Artest. Artest, god love him, just walks to a different drummer and as a result he does unexplainable things. Like last night with the Lakers up by three points and having the ball with 58 seconds left on the clock. Artest shoots a brick with around 18 seconds left on the shot clock. Luckily, the ball bounces off the rim all the way back out to the perimeter and Artest gets the ball back with a brand new shot clock. Does he dribble the ball to run the clock down. Does he pass it to another team mate. No! With 22 seconds still left on the shot clock, he shoots a three pointer and of course misses badly. The Suns tied the game and the Lakers still won on a miracle rebound and putback off a Kobe miss. The look on Kobe's face when asked about Artest shooting the ball instead of running the clock was priceless.
My point is that I just don't see Cousins doing anything like that. He's a different kind of person. Artest is from Mars. Not a bad thing if your on Mars, but it doesn't work as well when your on earth. I'm not saying that Cousins couldn't be a problem. Of course he could. But the opposite could be true as well. So all I'm saying is that you just don't disregard him without doing your homework on him. If you find enough reasons to pass on him, then fine.
The difference between you and I is that I'm willing to keep an open mind on Cousins and you simply want to condemm him and thats the end of it. We're not stupid. We've all been around the block a few times. Were able to understand that there are risks. From day one when I first brought up Cousins you found something to criticize about him. I don't remember you ever saying one good thing about him. All you've done is argue against him. Hardly representive of an open mind. And frankly I'm surprised by you. I always thought you were a pretty good judge of talent. So I always respected your opinion, even if I disagreed with it. But I don't get this apparent obbsesion to hammer Cousins over and over again, to the point of almost painting a image of him attached to a ball and chain in stripped prison attire.
If there was any indication of his being connected to drugs in any way, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. If he was known to run around with a bunch of guys carrying guns. I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. If he surrounded himself with a bunch of homies from the hood, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. But he's none of those things that we know of. What he is, is a 19 year old kid thats immature and has a temper. Thats it! My concern isn't with his temper. My concern is whether he wants to be a great player or not? Will he do the work necessary? Is he really dedicated? I don't have the answer to those questions. I'm sure the Kings will have the same concerns, and I'll trust their judgement on it.
So from here on out, I'm just going to talk about Cousins the basketball player and what he's capable of on the court. Which is what we should be concerned about.
Well, a few points....
* As far as Evans is concerned, you were just in the caboose. I was driving the car...
* Regarding hanging out with good guys, yeah, to a certain extent it helps if you are "bad". He's not bad, he's just got emotional issues. Didn't help him last year though hanging out with good guys. Orton called him "a baby".
* Regarding the veteran thing, we just totally disagree. Put Cousins on a veteran team of winners and they are going to get him to toe the line, pronto. Boston, for example. Young guys (I was one once) tend to put wanting to be liked as a much higher priority than confrontation for the sake of winning. Guys like Garnett and Pearce could give a **** about whether they are liked by the younger guys. They just want to win. Imo, it would definitely be left to Westphal to do the heavy lifting on Cousins, not Tyreke and Co.
* Regarding the Artest comment. Artest may be an apple and Cousins an orange, but they are both fruit (no sexual reference intended). They both have issues. I certaintly wouldn't claim that Cousins will be running up in the stands to throw a punch. But having lived through the Artest experience, I have my doubts that Kings management is highly desirious of even having Artest-ultralite either. The other questions you raise about him are valid and speak to maturity, and are all a part of the Cousins amalgam. Take it for what it's worth, neither Napear nor Bobby Jackson seem enchanted with Cousins (Is that a smoke signal?).
* I'm not condemning Cousins. Condemnation has the ring of finality to it (like condemning to death). Cousins is just beginning adulthood. He's just starting, and he's going to hopefully learn many things. How long is the "learning process" going to take and what is going to be the cost of that learning process? Those are key questions. But the main question if you are in Kings management is: Do you want to be along for the ride?
* As far as Evans is concerned, you were just in the caboose. I was driving the car...
* Regarding hanging out with good guys, yeah, to a certain extent it helps if you are "bad". He's not bad, he's just got emotional issues. Didn't help him last year though hanging out with good guys. Orton called him "a baby".
* Regarding the veteran thing, we just totally disagree. Put Cousins on a veteran team of winners and they are going to get him to toe the line, pronto. Boston, for example. Young guys (I was one once) tend to put wanting to be liked as a much higher priority than confrontation for the sake of winning. Guys like Garnett and Pearce could give a **** about whether they are liked by the younger guys. They just want to win. Imo, it would definitely be left to Westphal to do the heavy lifting on Cousins, not Tyreke and Co.
* Regarding the Artest comment. Artest may be an apple and Cousins an orange, but they are both fruit (no sexual reference intended). They both have issues. I certaintly wouldn't claim that Cousins will be running up in the stands to throw a punch. But having lived through the Artest experience, I have my doubts that Kings management is highly desirious of even having Artest-ultralite either. The other questions you raise about him are valid and speak to maturity, and are all a part of the Cousins amalgam. Take it for what it's worth, neither Napear nor Bobby Jackson seem enchanted with Cousins (Is that a smoke signal?).
* I'm not condemning Cousins. Condemnation has the ring of finality to it (like condemning to death). Cousins is just beginning adulthood. He's just starting, and he's going to hopefully learn many things. How long is the "learning process" going to take and what is going to be the cost of that learning process? Those are key questions. But the main question if you are in Kings management is: Do you want to be along for the ride?
I took it totally the wrong way, and you manned up and didn't fire back. I figured you were just trollin'sorry I guess
I was just saying that Petrie obviously didn't have a problem drafting Evans, and although he didn't have questions about how hard he was willing to work it may mean he will go with Cousins as well.
Nah no problem it's hard to tell tone from text. I bet I do that kind of thing more than you do.
Here's something that has entered my mind- I wonder if Cousins' behavior is by design for the purpose of shaping his own destiny. I may be giving him way too much credit here but maybe he just doesn't want to play in Minnesota, or maybe even Sacramento. His behavior wouldn't help him move into the top 3 spots but it might give him a little more control over his destination of what's left.
The main reason I say this is because it seemed to me like he may have played up the volatile bad guy image that was projected on him. I don't know how clever he is and I might have believed it a bit more if it were someone with the acumen of Aldrich, and most likely never would have brought it up if it were Hassan.
Here's something that has entered my mind- I wonder if Cousins' behavior is by design for the purpose of shaping his own destiny. I may be giving him way too much credit here but maybe he just doesn't want to play in Minnesota, or maybe even Sacramento. His behavior wouldn't help him move into the top 3 spots but it might give him a little more control over his destination of what's left.
The main reason I say this is because it seemed to me like he may have played up the volatile bad guy image that was projected on him. I don't know how clever he is and I might have believed it a bit more if it were someone with the acumen of Aldrich, and most likely never would have brought it up if it were Hassan.
