Kings 2009-2010 NBA Draft:
- Thread starter bajaden
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Yes.....I know that. I did not say that Petrie NEVER drafts anyone over 6'9 only that he is PRONE to drafting guard/forward tweeners.
He was a G/F and I believe the G/F position is where his ability to distinguish talent is best suited.
List of big men drafted by Geoff:
JT
Spencer
Jerome James
Jabari Smith
Funderburke
Corsley Edwards
Like I said, mediocre draft record for big men.
Granted the Kings did not have high draft picks most of those years.
Nonetheless, he has a style to his drafting. He will likely reach for whoever he wants, and what he wants is someone that can pass and/or shoot.
He was a G/F and I believe the G/F position is where his ability to distinguish talent is best suited.
List of big men drafted by Geoff:
JT
Spencer
Jerome James
Jabari Smith
Funderburke
Corsley Edwards
Like I said, mediocre draft record for big men.
Granted the Kings did not have high draft picks most of those years.
Nonetheless, he has a style to his drafting. He will likely reach for whoever he wants, and what he wants is someone that can pass and/or shoot.
At the start of his career Anthony Parker was better but still not very good ballhandler that couldn't shoot past mid-range. I doubt Anderson will really improve his handles but he has enough skills to stay in the NBA.
3pt shot and defense are his only above average NBA qualities though he can do a bit of everything else. He should go in 20s-early 30s.
Petrie drafts good quality big men for their draft position.
Milllsap, Blair? Basically the whole league passed on them.
3pt shot and defense are his only above average NBA qualities though he can do a bit of everything else. He should go in 20s-early 30s.
Petrie drafts good quality big men for their draft position.
Milllsap, Blair? Basically the whole league passed on them.
Brian Grant, Michael Smith, and I don't believe he drafted Yogi Stewart, but invited him to camp and he stuck. A couple of other guys that don't fall into the center or power forward postion but were both 6'9" or taller were Peja and Hedo. Usually if he drafts someone that plays the wing its a player thats skilled, and rightly so. His biggest exception was Gerold Wallace.
I guess it would be nit picking to say that I think Anderson can improve his handles, but even if he did, I agree with you, that he'll always be one of those guys that makes you a nervous wreck when he drives into traffic.
I see him mostly as a spot up shooter and a very good defender. A good complimentry player. He does have a pretty good pull up midrange shot and a little floater. I would take Damion James over him. He's bigger, stronger and a lot more versatile.
I see him mostly as a spot up shooter and a very good defender. A good complimentry player. He does have a pretty good pull up midrange shot and a little floater. I would take Damion James over him. He's bigger, stronger and a lot more versatile.
The truth is, its hard to have a particularly strong record of drafting big men unless you have a few top 2 or 3 picks in your history. And if you have a bunch of those, you clearly suck at your job anyways. Geoff Petrie's highest picks are 4, 7, 8, 10...If you want to prove your point, don't point to late 2nd rounders and say he botched it, go back to each draft and say, he should have known to select this impact big man over this guy. It will be hard to build much of a case.
Brian Grant, Corliss Williamson, Peja Stojakovic, Tariq Abdul Wahad, Jason Williams, Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, Tyreke Evans...these are the lotto picks during his tenure. Hard to look at that list and say, "He reaches for passing and shooting."
Brian Grant, Corliss Williamson, Peja Stojakovic, Tariq Abdul Wahad, Jason Williams, Spencer Hawes, Jason Thompson, Tyreke Evans...these are the lotto picks during his tenure. Hard to look at that list and say, "He reaches for passing and shooting."
Well, 3 pt shooting and defense are pretty good qualities for a SG! He's actually a very good rebounder too. I liken him to Jason Richardson except more very good athlete vs jaw-dropping athelte. He's not a superstar, but there's not much wrong with his game either. I think he ends up in the top 11-15 because he's the best pure SG in the draft. He's a better prospect than guys like Brandon Rush and Gerald Henderson who just went that high.
I see your point about the talent comparison those years. I have no doubt that Petrie's picks are trustworthy in proportion to where he drafted and who was available.
Nonetheless, this team has needed interior defense and rebounding since Vlade and Webb left Probably even before that.
The team has not acquired or drafted anyone of value that can shore up those holes.
It is increasingly noticeable this year when JT is being outclassed by bigger and stronger PF's every night and Spence wants to hang out at the arc and shoot threes.
All I'm saying is that Petrie's pick WILL be unconventional, someone whom we (and the sports pundits) will scratch their heads about for a few seconds and then spout "In Petrie We Trust."
Aminu and Ed Davis are those picks IMHO.
Nonetheless, this team has needed interior defense and rebounding since Vlade and Webb left Probably even before that.
The team has not acquired or drafted anyone of value that can shore up those holes.
It is increasingly noticeable this year when JT is being outclassed by bigger and stronger PF's every night and Spence wants to hang out at the arc and shoot threes.
All I'm saying is that Petrie's pick WILL be unconventional, someone whom we (and the sports pundits) will scratch their heads about for a few seconds and then spout "In Petrie We Trust."
Aminu and Ed Davis are those picks IMHO.
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I think he's a better shooter than J. Rich was when he came into the league. As I stated, I like him, but he's just not a good ballhandler and is apt to turn the ball over when pressured. Its for that reason that I don't see him as a good fit next to Evans. And it is one of the reasons that I love Turner. I think Turner has better handles than Evans.
I suspose that its not mandatory that for our SG to have great handles. But I would prefer it. I still don't think he'll go any higher than 20 in the draft and possibly lower. I think once he starts the team visits and workouts, his ballhandling will be exposed and it will hold him down. That means some team thats already pretty good will end up with him and he could be a steal at that point, if the team has patience with him.
He was pretty impressive against Texas when he lit up Bradley, who I like as a defensive player. It actually gave me pause as to how good Bradley really is. It may be in his best interest to return to school and work on his flaws. That might apply to Bradley as well..
I suspose that its not mandatory that for our SG to have great handles. But I would prefer it. I still don't think he'll go any higher than 20 in the draft and possibly lower. I think once he starts the team visits and workouts, his ballhandling will be exposed and it will hold him down. That means some team thats already pretty good will end up with him and he could be a steal at that point, if the team has patience with him.
He was pretty impressive against Texas when he lit up Bradley, who I like as a defensive player. It actually gave me pause as to how good Bradley really is. It may be in his best interest to return to school and work on his flaws. That might apply to Bradley as well..
Don't forget Corliss, Brian Grant and Michael Smith. All three of whom turned out just fine, especially for where they were drafted.
I think a lot of the problem is we simply have not had many lottery picks in Petrie's tenure. And the quality of big men drops exponentially the further down in the draft you get. Since most of our picks have been in the 20s, it's easier to get value from a SG/SF and Geoff has done well with that.
Meanwhile, our lottery picks have been Williamson, Grant, Wahad, Jason Williams, Hawes, JT and Tyreke. By my count that's 4 bigs, 1 SG/SF, and 2 PGs. Of those bigs, 2 of them worked out very well, and the other 2 are still young and trying to prove they can.
Shake your head all you want. You'll be shaking it on draft day as well. Along with this entire forum.
Multiple posters on this forum have made references to Petrie's propensity for passers and shooters (big or small).
I am not the only one.
I though ad hominem attacks were banned on this forum? Jeez.
Petrie is not GOD people. Tough crowd.
Multiple posters on this forum have made references to Petrie's propensity for passers and shooters (big or small).
I am not the only one.
I though ad hominem attacks were banned on this forum? Jeez.
Petrie is not GOD people. Tough crowd.
Those "multiple posters" who made similar arguments to yours have their arguments repeatedly refuted, debunked, and subsequently this "GP only likes passers/shooters" theory has been in the deep freeze after this summer. Many who used to toll this line have not brought this up in a longggg time and I'm incline to believe they've seen the light.
And I'm not going to dive into this argument again because the evidence has been presented by many posters to prove the contrary. All I have to say is if you're right, then I guess Brockman, JT, Brian Grant, Jerome James, and Gerald Wallace must be fantastic shooters/passers.
Just as a comparison, below are the Lakers' draft picks:
Joe Crawford
Jordan Farmar
Devean George
Javaris Crittenton
Sun Yue
Brian Cook
Luke Walton
Ronny Turiaf
Mark Madsen
Marc Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Marcus Douthit
Von Wafer
D. Fisher
Wow, so the Lakers drafted a PF who can't rebound or play D (Cook), a PF who is average at best at defense (Turiaf), an undersized PF (6-8, Madsen), a C who they traded away (Gasol), a center who actually can play (Bynum) and another C (Douthit) who just sucked.
So really, they drafted and kept one seven-foot guy in over ten years and then a bunch of SGs, SFs, and PGs. Wow, using your logic, the Lakers must be really into passers/shooters like the Kings! See how dumb your argument is?
Also, You don't seem to understand the meaning of ad hominem. Calling your argument dumb because you yourself is dumb is ad hominem, calling your argument dumb because it contradicts facts is definitely not ad hominem.
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And I'm not going to dive into this argument again because the evidence has been presented by many posters to prove the contrary. All I have to say is if you're right, then I guess Brockman, JT, Brian Grant, Jerome James, and Gerald Wallace must be fantastic shooters/passers.
Just as a comparison, below are the Lakers' draft picks:
Joe Crawford
Jordan Farmar
Devean George
Javaris Crittenton
Sun Yue
Brian Cook
Luke Walton
Ronny Turiaf
Mark Madsen
Marc Gasol
Andrew Bynum
Marcus Douthit
Von Wafer
D. Fisher
Wow, so the Lakers drafted a PF who can't rebound or play D (Cook), a PF who is average at best at defense (Turiaf), an undersized PF (6-8, Madsen), a C who they traded away (Gasol), a center who actually can play (Bynum) and another C (Douthit) who just sucked.
So really, they drafted and kept one seven-foot guy in over ten years and then a bunch of SGs, SFs, and PGs. Wow, using your logic, the Lakers must be really into passers/shooters like the Kings! See how dumb your argument is?
Also, You don't seem to understand the meaning of ad hominem. Calling your argument dumb because you yourself is dumb is ad hominem, calling your argument dumb because it contradicts facts is definitely not ad hominem.
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I'm not quite sure what this argument is all about. Its one thing to say that a GM has certain inclinations. Its quite another to say that he's inflexable. If Petrie is presented with two players of equal height and weight, but one is more skilled than the other, he'll probably go with the more skilled player. Thats not a secret, nor is it rocket science. And its certainly not a revelation.
I believe that Petrie looks at the needs of the team. If he can find a player that fits that need, and can't find another player thats considerably better who doesn't fit that need, then he'll draft the player of need. I also believe, that if for instance this year, it came down to a choice between Udoh and Turner, he would choose Turner. Once again, not rocket science. And by the way that scenario would never happen, but the fact is, Udoh would fill our greatest need, a defensive big. But Turner is a considerably better basketball player.
I think Petrie picks the best player available. In most cases that means the player is fairly well skilled. This is going to be even more likely when picking in the lottery. Lets face it, your in the lottery because your not very good. You can't afford mistakes. So you take the most likely sure thing. If you not in the lottery your more likely to take a chance and go with a player that has a ton of potential but hasn't developed the skill level you would like. Such was the case with Wallace. Also true with Martin. Sometimes you strike out, such as with Douby. Sort of a GM heat check.
When the college season has ended and the players have been measured and weighed. When we finally know the position were picking from. Then I might venture a guess about who we'll pick. But to do so now is just shooting arrows into the air and seeing where they might land. An exercise in futility.
I believe that Petrie looks at the needs of the team. If he can find a player that fits that need, and can't find another player thats considerably better who doesn't fit that need, then he'll draft the player of need. I also believe, that if for instance this year, it came down to a choice between Udoh and Turner, he would choose Turner. Once again, not rocket science. And by the way that scenario would never happen, but the fact is, Udoh would fill our greatest need, a defensive big. But Turner is a considerably better basketball player.
I think Petrie picks the best player available. In most cases that means the player is fairly well skilled. This is going to be even more likely when picking in the lottery. Lets face it, your in the lottery because your not very good. You can't afford mistakes. So you take the most likely sure thing. If you not in the lottery your more likely to take a chance and go with a player that has a ton of potential but hasn't developed the skill level you would like. Such was the case with Wallace. Also true with Martin. Sometimes you strike out, such as with Douby. Sort of a GM heat check.
When the college season has ended and the players have been measured and weighed. When we finally know the position were picking from. Then I might venture a guess about who we'll pick. But to do so now is just shooting arrows into the air and seeing where they might land. An exercise in futility.
Its not the criticism of Petrie that drew the ire of the crowd. Petrie's done plenty to be criticized about. Its that people are protecting the discussion in the thread. This thread is discussing the top draft prospects, their strengths and weaknesses, and how those would suit the Kings. If you come in and say...
...Then follow it up with a bunch of uneducated posts "proving" your point, you're going to get shouted down by people who know better. Its not an attack on you, but your post is just flat untrue and isn't adding much to the discussion. I'm not sure how highly Petrie rates guys like Derrick Favors, DeMarcus Cousins, Cole Aldrich, Greg Monroe etc. ....but I'm 100% sure he's not lowering their draft grades because they're 6'10" or taller.
...Then follow it up with a bunch of uneducated posts "proving" your point, you're going to get shouted down by people who know better. Its not an attack on you, but your post is just flat untrue and isn't adding much to the discussion. I'm not sure how highly Petrie rates guys like Derrick Favors, DeMarcus Cousins, Cole Aldrich, Greg Monroe etc. ....but I'm 100% sure he's not lowering their draft grades because they're 6'10" or taller.
Had most of this typed last night before the internet went down, but take two:
I thought you meant playing style, or at least big men. But fine, this actually makes Petrie look even better. Because while you are certainly entitled to criticize him, you also need to start talking about which players he passed on who fit your criteria. Ironically, three of the best big men who he and many other GMs passed on are Boozer, Millsap and Blair who are 6'9'', 6'8'' and 6'6'' respectively. Heck, even if you count undrafted players, you get Brad Miller (over 6'9'') to count for you, but even Ben Wallace is 6'9''. The truth is most big men with any skill go in the lottery. So when Petrie was maximizing his picks in the late teens and 20s, he wasn't exactly passing on the bigs you are talking about.
Furthermore, yes Petrie likes skilled offensive players (who doesn't), but this notion that he only drafts soft, shooters is absurd. I'll give you Peja, KMart and Hawes (although 2 of those 3 were HUGE steals where they were drafted). However - Wahad, Wallace, Garcia, Hedo, Reke, Casspi and JT are all far from soft.
So, I am sorry, I would love a big, tough shot blocking big man as much as you. However, I don't think Petrie has ignored those players, so much as there aren't many out there. Even the ones with good D but limited O (Thabeet, Diop, Nazr, Kwame, Gadzuric) get taken in the late lottery for their upside.
I thought you meant playing style, or at least big men. But fine, this actually makes Petrie look even better. Because while you are certainly entitled to criticize him, you also need to start talking about which players he passed on who fit your criteria. Ironically, three of the best big men who he and many other GMs passed on are Boozer, Millsap and Blair who are 6'9'', 6'8'' and 6'6'' respectively. Heck, even if you count undrafted players, you get Brad Miller (over 6'9'') to count for you, but even Ben Wallace is 6'9''. The truth is most big men with any skill go in the lottery. So when Petrie was maximizing his picks in the late teens and 20s, he wasn't exactly passing on the bigs you are talking about.
Furthermore, yes Petrie likes skilled offensive players (who doesn't), but this notion that he only drafts soft, shooters is absurd. I'll give you Peja, KMart and Hawes (although 2 of those 3 were HUGE steals where they were drafted). However - Wahad, Wallace, Garcia, Hedo, Reke, Casspi and JT are all far from soft.
So, I am sorry, I would love a big, tough shot blocking big man as much as you. However, I don't think Petrie has ignored those players, so much as there aren't many out there. Even the ones with good D but limited O (Thabeet, Diop, Nazr, Kwame, Gadzuric) get taken in the late lottery for their upside.
This will be my last post regarding this subject because the hubris on this board is ridiculous.
I'm sure you guys "know better" because you are really Geoff Petrie in disguise.
YOU ARE NOT NBA EXECUTIVES. Neither am I. A lot of you have huge investments in your picks and your "status" on this board. That is just sad.
Bottom Line: To say that I am "flat untrue" just feeds your ego. You cannot know what Petrie's standards are for this draft. I'm sure you all predicted Jason Thompson as the pick a few years back and half of you probably thought Rubio was the pick last year.
Again: I think it will be either Ed Davis, or Aminu. Do I want Favors or Cousins? Hell yes. However, Aminu and Davis are perfect reaches for the man who likes to reach.
I trust what Petrie's previous draft history tells me. I do NOT trust the opinions of wannabe GM's on some internet message board.
I'm sure you guys "know better" because you are really Geoff Petrie in disguise.
YOU ARE NOT NBA EXECUTIVES. Neither am I. A lot of you have huge investments in your picks and your "status" on this board. That is just sad.
Bottom Line: To say that I am "flat untrue" just feeds your ego. You cannot know what Petrie's standards are for this draft. I'm sure you all predicted Jason Thompson as the pick a few years back and half of you probably thought Rubio was the pick last year.
Again: I think it will be either Ed Davis, or Aminu. Do I want Favors or Cousins? Hell yes. However, Aminu and Davis are perfect reaches for the man who likes to reach.
I trust what Petrie's previous draft history tells me. I do NOT trust the opinions of wannabe GM's on some internet message board.
Just so you know, I predicted Tyreke Evans this year. I predicted Thompson the year before and I predicted Hawes the year before that. When I say predicted, I mean those were my picks for the Kings. The fact that Petrie made the same decision actually shocked me.
Your entitled to your opinion, and we're entitled to disagree with you. And our attitude has more to do with your attitude than your predictions. You've become contentious with some of your statements. There is no status on this fourm other than the respect of the other posters. And that respect is earned by having respect for them. As for having an investment in whomever I might be picking, I have no idea what the hell your talking about. All I do is watch around 30 college basketball games a week and then give my opinion on who I believe the best players are. But when its all said and done my opinion is just what you paid for it. Take it or leave it. I could care less....
Your entitled to your opinion, and we're entitled to disagree with you. And our attitude has more to do with your attitude than your predictions. You've become contentious with some of your statements. There is no status on this fourm other than the respect of the other posters. And that respect is earned by having respect for them. As for having an investment in whomever I might be picking, I have no idea what the hell your talking about. All I do is watch around 30 college basketball games a week and then give my opinion on who I believe the best players are. But when its all said and done my opinion is just what you paid for it. Take it or leave it. I could care less....
Watched the Mississippi St./Kentucky game. Another very good game by Cousins. I was interested to see how Varanado would fare going up against another top player. Not too well. He had a couple of good moments, but it was too little too late. He got himself into foul trouble which limited his minutes. Meanwhile on the other side of the ball Cousins ended up with 19 points and 14 boards. Wall had a very good game and almost ended up with a triple double. I believe he ended up with 8 assists, just two shy of what he needed. He also had 10 boards. Kentucky just keeps rolling.
By the way, for all those Parakhouski fans out there 
, He logged his 22nd out of 25 games double double. I believe he had 25 points and 12 boards. Impressive, but not impressive, since he plays in a lesser conference. Of course if your going to be ranked up there, then you have to excell if your playing in a lesser conference. I suspect the NBA combine and the team workouts will determine his fate in the draft.
, He logged his 22nd out of 25 games double double. I believe he had 25 points and 12 boards. Impressive, but not impressive, since he plays in a lesser conference. Of course if your going to be ranked up there, then you have to excell if your playing in a lesser conference. I suspect the NBA combine and the team workouts will determine his fate in the draft.
I like Ed Davis. I don't think he will ever be much of a offensive threat but his defensive potential is exceptional. I have only see the kid play a few times this year and from what I have seen he reminds me a lot of Oden on the defensive end. Unfortunately he reminds me a lot of Oden on the offensive end as well.
Aldrich has also impressed me on the defensive end. He plays tougher then Davis at this point although his defense away from the basket is average at best. I think Davis has more potential on the defensive end, Aldrich still has the potential to be very good defensively.
On the offensive side neither guy has much touch around the basket. Aldrich does a far better job of using his size and strength to get good position around the basket and has better hands. Both of are limited in terms of post moves, with Aldrich being slightly more consistent with the hook shot. They both need to learn to learn how to use the off hand. Aldrich does a good job of playing to his strengths offensively without trying to do too much. Davis seems lost at times and overall has farther to go with his offensive game.
If we end up picking 5-8 I would be happy with either of them.
I am going to reserve judgment on Cousins. The two games I have seen out of him happen to be his two worse games of the year (vs Tennessee and UNC). He got frustrated early and couldn't pull it together in both of those games.
Aldrich has also impressed me on the defensive end. He plays tougher then Davis at this point although his defense away from the basket is average at best. I think Davis has more potential on the defensive end, Aldrich still has the potential to be very good defensively.
On the offensive side neither guy has much touch around the basket. Aldrich does a far better job of using his size and strength to get good position around the basket and has better hands. Both of are limited in terms of post moves, with Aldrich being slightly more consistent with the hook shot. They both need to learn to learn how to use the off hand. Aldrich does a good job of playing to his strengths offensively without trying to do too much. Davis seems lost at times and overall has farther to go with his offensive game.
If we end up picking 5-8 I would be happy with either of them.
I am going to reserve judgment on Cousins. The two games I have seen out of him happen to be his two worse games of the year (vs Tennessee and UNC). He got frustrated early and couldn't pull it together in both of those games.
I have Cousins ranked first and Aldrich ranked second. I have Davis down around 5 or 6 as far as bigs go. Cousins has been playing better with each game and there's just no denying his talent. He's an absolute load around the basket. I have Favor's ranked third. After that its a crap shoot between several players.
I don't want to come down too hard on Davis, but I've seen him play at least 10 or 12 times this year, and he doesn't have the wow factor. He's solid, and there's something to be said for that. But I have hopes for more than that.
I don't want to come down too hard on Davis, but I've seen him play at least 10 or 12 times this year, and he doesn't have the wow factor. He's solid, and there's something to be said for that. But I have hopes for more than that.
Davis just moves so well for a big guy and with his length he has the tools to be a defensive anchor. He does seem passive at times, which for a defensive big man is a big red flag. I could see Davis going either way, I just think his defensive potential is as good as anyone in this draft.
Cousins production is amazing. He is putting up crazy number for a big guy. Like I said I caught him at his worse, even at his worse his footwork is really impressive for a guy that size. I had heard bad things about him defensively but he seemed alright on that end from what I could see. Not great but nothing that makes me think he will be a liability. Having seen him play a lot this year what do you think of his defensive potential? And what NBA player would you compare him to? I see him as a Al Jefferson Zach Randolf type, average athlete/defender but highly skilled and very strong.
Cousins production is amazing. He is putting up crazy number for a big guy. Like I said I caught him at his worse, even at his worse his footwork is really impressive for a guy that size. I had heard bad things about him defensively but he seemed alright on that end from what I could see. Not great but nothing that makes me think he will be a liability. Having seen him play a lot this year what do you think of his defensive potential? And what NBA player would you compare him to? I see him as a Al Jefferson Zach Randolf type, average athlete/defender but highly skilled and very strong.