Tyreke and Omri are the only 2 pieces I see that are untouchable at this point. JT almost became the third but he is too inconsistant for being what 24 or 25. Everyone else can be traded. Omri is a need to this team, he is not a player you don't consider to be part of your franchise for his entire carreer. All this debate about Greene Vs Omri is retarded. Not even close.
Tyreke and Omri untouchable? (split)
- Thread starter apollo916
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JT is 23, and I wouldn't say he's inconsistent. He has been putting up solid numbers this season, and it's true he's been in kind of a slump the last week and a half or so, but what player doesn't have these slumps?
I think that in addition to Omri and Tyreke, the Kings should (and to my knowledge are planning to) build around all the young players, including Greene, JT, Hawes, and Brockman. I imagine they will also keep Beno around unless there is a VERY tempting trade option that includes getting a star big man.
Kevin and Cisco are great players, but if the Kings are planning on rebuilding around the core that I mentioned, their value as trade chips is probably higher than the value they have for this team in their position (although I'm open to the possibility that their return might make a huge impact and turn the Kings into a winning machine).
I like Sergio as a 3rd PG, but I can see him go in a trade if needed. Udoka, KT, and Noc also contribute occasionally, but I don't think GP will hesitate to use them as trade chips either.
I think that in addition to Omri and Tyreke, the Kings should (and to my knowledge are planning to) build around all the young players, including Greene, JT, Hawes, and Brockman. I imagine they will also keep Beno around unless there is a VERY tempting trade option that includes getting a star big man.
Kevin and Cisco are great players, but if the Kings are planning on rebuilding around the core that I mentioned, their value as trade chips is probably higher than the value they have for this team in their position (although I'm open to the possibility that their return might make a huge impact and turn the Kings into a winning machine).
I like Sergio as a 3rd PG, but I can see him go in a trade if needed. Udoka, KT, and Noc also contribute occasionally, but I don't think GP will hesitate to use them as trade chips either.
Jason's only in his second season of the NBA. That being said, absolutely no one is untouchable. If the Magic wanted to trade Dwight Howard for Omri, I would do it in a heart beat. If the Cavs offered Lebron for Reke, I'd do it (though they'd better offer up apick or something too 
). It's all a matter of circumstance.
). It's all a matter of circumstance.
Jason's only in his second season of the NBA. That being said, absolutely no one is untouchable. If the Magic wanted to trade Dwight Howard for Omri, I would do it in a heart beat. If the Cavs offered Lebron for Reke, I'd do it (though they'd better offer up apick or something too ). It's all a matter of circumstance.
). It's all a matter of circumstance.
Jason's only in his second season of the NBA. That being said, absolutely no one is untouchable. If the Magic wanted to trade Dwight Howard for Omri, I would do it in a heart beat. If the Cavs offered Lebron for Reke, I'd do it (though they'd better offer up apick or something too ). It's all a matter of circumstance.
). It's all a matter of circumstance.
I think untouchable carries the implication that you'd still do it in exchange for the best player in the league, but there's basically no realistic way a deal could get done that would involve trading them. At this point, Tyreke is as untouchable as any player that has suited up in the Sacramento era.
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he'd still be an inconsistent, mouth breathing, dufus.... he has his moments where he looks like he figured it out but then he'll get into foul trouble the next day against a scrub. i just dont see where he'll somehow become a good nba starting pf, a good back up and spot starter... but i just dont see him being the man, like al jefferson...
Your misspelling of the word "doofus" makes me lose any respect for you. He's already a good starting pf. Not special, not by any means a star but still a good serviceable starter. Who could you realistically trade for that would be better than JT?
And really, Al Jefferson seems to be the K-Mart of "big men" (he's only 6'9") he can put up great offensive numbers but his defense is spotty at best and he can't seem to be the ever popular "go-to-guy".
He's already a good starting pf. Not special, not by any means a star but still a good serviceable starter. Who could you realistically trade for that would be better than JT?And really, Al Jefferson seems to be the K-Mart of "big men" (he's only 6'9") he can put up great offensive numbers but his defense is spotty at best and he can't seem to be the ever popular "go-to-guy".
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the thing about the untradeable title is that its unfair when the players are on rookie contracts... wait until they have to be re-signed... casspi is one hell of a deal as the 23rd pick. but when he's making 7-8 million will he be that special? evans will obviously be this teams star for as long as he remains a king but when he gets maxed out will he be as untouchable as he is now?
if lebron and evans were the same age and made the same amount, i would take lebron... if casspi and manu made the same amount, i would take manu... but they dont so i have no problem with keeping the players that we have. untouchable? no one on this team is untouchable. there are maybe 2 players in the nba that are untouchable, lebron and kobe.... unless they are being traded for each other in which case lebron is the only untouchable player in the nba.
if lebron and evans were the same age and made the same amount, i would take lebron... if casspi and manu made the same amount, i would take manu... but they dont so i have no problem with keeping the players that we have. untouchable? no one on this team is untouchable. there are maybe 2 players in the nba that are untouchable, lebron and kobe.... unless they are being traded for each other in which case lebron is the only untouchable player in the nba.
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Your misspelling of the word "doofus" makes me lose any respect for you. He's already a good starting pf. Not special, not by any means a star but still a good serviceable starter. Who could you realistically trade for that would be better than JT?
And really, Al Jefferson seems to be the K-Mart of "big men" (he's only 6'9") he can put up great offensive numbers but his defense is spotty at best and he can't seem to be the ever popular "go-to-guy".
He's already a good starting pf. Not special, not by any means a star but still a good serviceable starter. Who could you realistically trade for that would be better than JT?And really, Al Jefferson seems to be the K-Mart of "big men" (he's only 6'9") he can put up great offensive numbers but his defense is spotty at best and he can't seem to be the ever popular "go-to-guy".
and now i know how to spell doofus...
but al jefferson is a beast and is being played out of position at center.... thompson is scrappy at times and garbage the rest... once he reaches his prime and has everything clicking he will still be an average pf at best. if anything once his shot becomes more consistent he'll probably get fewer touches. he'll get his 15 points and then he'll be ignored for the rest of the game....
He also has knee problems and hasn't really been all that amazing this year. As a Kings fan, I, of course, am weary of PF's with combustible knees.
How exactly will JT becoming a better shooter limit his offensive game? Is there some scoring cap that I'm not aware of? "I'm sorry JT, you've already scored your max of 15 points so you'll just have to st out for the rest of the game."
How exactly will JT becoming a better shooter limit his offensive game? Is there some scoring cap that I'm not aware of? "I'm sorry JT, you've already scored your max of 15 points so you'll just have to st out for the rest of the game."
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it happens... when roleplayers max out their talent they shoot the ball less because they make the shots that they get. dont you ever wonder why superscrubs dont shoot the ball more often. hell donte had one of those games a few nights ago against the sixers, he was hot and then he was benched. we all wondered where he was and why he wasnt shooting the ball... he had played better than the coach expected and was benched because the coach was affraid to ride the hot hand. probably so that fans wont start any trade "star" threads because one of the roleplayers is playing well...
it annoys me when a scrub is shooting 6-6 from the field and doesnt get the ball... i watch a lot of cavs games and i hate it when i know that gibson would make a wide open three but lebron wants to shoot it from 30 feet with a man in his face. the same thing happens with the lakers, though fisher has been shooting poorly recently, i think he's doing it on purpose to show how valuable he is to the team.
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i dunno... casspi was putting up monster numbers, donte was playing well too... if we had won all of those games without evans, martin and garcia... this past week or so...
and fisher, i think he really is doing this on purpose. he's an expiring contract, he knows that famar wont be there next year and brown isnt a pg... he's going to suck until the playoffs and go ballistic for his final mle contract...
and fisher, i think he really is doing this on purpose. he's an expiring contract, he knows that famar wont be there next year and brown isnt a pg... he's going to suck until the playoffs and go ballistic for his final mle contract...
Wow.
How many years has Casspi been playing professional ball? Since he was 17, correct?
You do understand that Donte's first season in the NBA was last year, and that the season as a whole was a complete debacle in terms of player development.
This first 30+ games of the season has truly been the best environment for Donte's basketball development in I would imagine his entire life. When he was in College he was a 3pt chucker who had athleticism which he didn't utilize while playing for a team which uses a zone defense.
This season he's been challenged to be a defensive player 1st. He's also been challenged to be smarter with the basketball and to make sure that his shot selection is smart.
If he can continue to show the same improvements in maturity and mental focus as he's displayed in the first part of this season, and if he can continue to buy in to what Coach Westphal has been teaching him, he's got the makings to be a top player in the league and an absolute beast next to Tyreke.
I love Casspi and I agree completely that he's a core part of our team and we shouldn't trade him for anyone unless it's a complete no-brainer sort of scenario.
But when comparing Donte to Casspi here is what I see:
Donte is Younger
Donte is Taller and has more Length
Donte is more athletic and Explosive
Donte has shown the ability to be a lockdown defender against 2s & 3s.
Donte has shown the ability to create off the dribble, attack the basket and hit open teammates for easy buckets.
Casspi is a better outside shooter
Casspi is more tenacious
Casspi shows far more mental focus
Casspi has shown far more rebound aggressiveness
Donte has the capacity to become one of the elite defenders in the league if he can keep his focus on that. That in my mind is what gives the edge to Donte.
Both are going to be critical pieces to our team. But to say that it's absurd to compare the relative impacts both of these players could have on this Kings team in the future tells me that you are not really aware of the history of Donte Greene.
I would imagine that every single Kings fan who sat through last season and Donte's antics and immaturity and bad shot selection is completely befuddled by the Donte Greene we're seeing today. He's a completely different player, and if he can continue to make the same strides he's made over the last 30+ games, and grow for another season or two or three, he has the chance to be in the conversation with Artest as the most talented small forward the Kings have had while in Sacramento.
I wasn't high on Donte at the start of the season, though I did want to give him some playing time to see if he could show up and be an NBA player. He's utterly exceeding my expectations. If he stops developing as a player today, then I'd say that Casspi is the more consistent/reliable/polished (better) player. But with the way Donte's come out this season I have to now give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's going to continue to develop. Since I root for the Kings before rooting for either Casspi or Greene, I hope for the team's sake that he continues to develop and mature.
I'm also expecting for Casspi to continue to develop. Just like Greene he's still very young and he can do a lot to improve his game. I want them both to improve, because our team's success will depend on both of them. With that said, since Donte is a more gifted athlete who has shown not only the ability, but the desire to be an elite defender, I think he does have a greater upside than Casspi. Doesn't mean he'll reach it, but his potential is very clear to see.
One other note:
Finding full-sized bigs who have some talent is hard. We finally got a full-sized power-foward in JT, and unless he gets traded for a star player he is part of our core. I just think about the Cavaliers. There isn't a single Big on the Cavs that I would trade for JT. So if they are trying to win a championship and don't have a player of JT's ability and size, then it seems to me that the prudent move would be to keep him unless we make a move for a legitimate star at that position.
How many years has Casspi been playing professional ball? Since he was 17, correct?
You do understand that Donte's first season in the NBA was last year, and that the season as a whole was a complete debacle in terms of player development.
This first 30+ games of the season has truly been the best environment for Donte's basketball development in I would imagine his entire life. When he was in College he was a 3pt chucker who had athleticism which he didn't utilize while playing for a team which uses a zone defense.
This season he's been challenged to be a defensive player 1st. He's also been challenged to be smarter with the basketball and to make sure that his shot selection is smart.
If he can continue to show the same improvements in maturity and mental focus as he's displayed in the first part of this season, and if he can continue to buy in to what Coach Westphal has been teaching him, he's got the makings to be a top player in the league and an absolute beast next to Tyreke.
I love Casspi and I agree completely that he's a core part of our team and we shouldn't trade him for anyone unless it's a complete no-brainer sort of scenario.
But when comparing Donte to Casspi here is what I see:
Donte is Younger
Donte is Taller and has more Length
Donte is more athletic and Explosive
Donte has shown the ability to be a lockdown defender against 2s & 3s.
Donte has shown the ability to create off the dribble, attack the basket and hit open teammates for easy buckets.
Casspi is a better outside shooter
Casspi is more tenacious
Casspi shows far more mental focus
Casspi has shown far more rebound aggressiveness
Donte has the capacity to become one of the elite defenders in the league if he can keep his focus on that. That in my mind is what gives the edge to Donte.
Both are going to be critical pieces to our team. But to say that it's absurd to compare the relative impacts both of these players could have on this Kings team in the future tells me that you are not really aware of the history of Donte Greene.
I would imagine that every single Kings fan who sat through last season and Donte's antics and immaturity and bad shot selection is completely befuddled by the Donte Greene we're seeing today. He's a completely different player, and if he can continue to make the same strides he's made over the last 30+ games, and grow for another season or two or three, he has the chance to be in the conversation with Artest as the most talented small forward the Kings have had while in Sacramento.
I wasn't high on Donte at the start of the season, though I did want to give him some playing time to see if he could show up and be an NBA player. He's utterly exceeding my expectations. If he stops developing as a player today, then I'd say that Casspi is the more consistent/reliable/polished (better) player. But with the way Donte's come out this season I have to now give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's going to continue to develop. Since I root for the Kings before rooting for either Casspi or Greene, I hope for the team's sake that he continues to develop and mature.
I'm also expecting for Casspi to continue to develop. Just like Greene he's still very young and he can do a lot to improve his game. I want them both to improve, because our team's success will depend on both of them. With that said, since Donte is a more gifted athlete who has shown not only the ability, but the desire to be an elite defender, I think he does have a greater upside than Casspi. Doesn't mean he'll reach it, but his potential is very clear to see.
One other note:
Finding full-sized bigs who have some talent is hard. We finally got a full-sized power-foward in JT, and unless he gets traded for a star player he is part of our core. I just think about the Cavaliers. There isn't a single Big on the Cavs that I would trade for JT. So if they are trying to win a championship and don't have a player of JT's ability and size, then it seems to me that the prudent move would be to keep him unless we make a move for a legitimate star at that position.
Can we make this realistic and not a fantasy discussion? Lebron for tyreke, omri for durant??? They are untouchable pieces in our franchise that you don't even think about moving because as a GM that would be retarded. We have no idea we these 2 players have in store for us. No further comment. Refrain from trying to prove one wrong and just admit Tyreke and Omri.... Rookies...... Are the hottest names on the kings rite now.
I don't want to get into this whole Omri vs. Donte thing. I think they are both extremely talented and have the potential to be allstar quality players in the future.
I will, however, correct you on one thing: Donte is not younger than Omri. He is actually 4 months older.
The other thing is, understandably you guys are impressed with Donte's progress, but I'm not sure that you are aware of what Casspi has done over the summer. He is a completely different player than he was last year. He has improved pretty much every parameter of his game, and the impressive thing is the systematic way in which he does it. He sets extremely high goals for himself and doesn't rest until he reaches them.
Which brings me to your last point, about Donte having the desire to become an elite defender. I would say that Casspi has that desire just as much as Donte does. He is not as good a defender as Donte is yet, mainly because he is not as athletic, but also because he is still learning the NBA. He played pro ball in Europe and that shows in a lot of his traits, but the pace and the level of players you have to defend in the NBA is a whole different story. I can assure you that by this time next year Omri will be considered a great NBA defender.
Again, all of this is not to take anything away from Donte. I think he has great talent and I hope that him and Omri, along with Tyreke and the others, will become the legends of the new Kings dynasty.
I will, however, correct you on one thing: Donte is not younger than Omri. He is actually 4 months older.
The other thing is, understandably you guys are impressed with Donte's progress, but I'm not sure that you are aware of what Casspi has done over the summer. He is a completely different player than he was last year. He has improved pretty much every parameter of his game, and the impressive thing is the systematic way in which he does it. He sets extremely high goals for himself and doesn't rest until he reaches them.
Which brings me to your last point, about Donte having the desire to become an elite defender. I would say that Casspi has that desire just as much as Donte does. He is not as good a defender as Donte is yet, mainly because he is not as athletic, but also because he is still learning the NBA. He played pro ball in Europe and that shows in a lot of his traits, but the pace and the level of players you have to defend in the NBA is a whole different story. I can assure you that by this time next year Omri will be considered a great NBA defender.
Again, all of this is not to take anything away from Donte. I think he has great talent and I hope that him and Omri, along with Tyreke and the others, will become the legends of the new Kings dynasty.
Casspi is a better player right now, and might always be that. However, Donte has the potential to be a star. Not a Lebron James, Kobe, Carmelo star... more like a Rudy Gay, Kevin Martin, Al Jefferson level star. 2nd tier if you will. Greene has all the tools needed to become such a star, he just needs to learn how to control them. That being said I think we need both of them. Casspi's hustle is something Greene doesn't have and is an incredibly valuable asset. Its the kind of thing that gets you back in games that have seemingly drifted out of reach.
I think people imagine Casspi was the go to guy in a top european team since he was 16.
What actualy happened is he got good playing time since only last year.
The year before that he hardly saw any minutes in Maccabi and he nearly left the team because of it.
Casspi is a very raw 21 year old,which only makes me smile at thinking how good he could actualy be.
Even if he was THE MAN since he was 5,that doesn't mean he reached his peak when he was 21,it just means he's better right now,more developed right now.
Casspi has a lot of stuff to work on his game and i promise you he'll never stop working until he has them down.
If he works on his game more than Donte,thats not something to hold against him.
Right now Casspi is BY FAR the better player than the 2,and has shown tremendous amount of potential.
More reasonable to say is Donte is a sophmore and has less confidence than Omri,
in his first year abroad in a completely new surroundings.
That is a more accurate view of the matter.
You can't buy that kind of character,will power and work ethic,and thats what would make him a star someday.
What actualy happened is he got good playing time since only last year.
The year before that he hardly saw any minutes in Maccabi and he nearly left the team because of it.
Casspi is a very raw 21 year old,which only makes me smile at thinking how good he could actualy be.
Even if he was THE MAN since he was 5,that doesn't mean he reached his peak when he was 21,it just means he's better right now,more developed right now.
Casspi has a lot of stuff to work on his game and i promise you he'll never stop working until he has them down.
If he works on his game more than Donte,thats not something to hold against him.
Right now Casspi is BY FAR the better player than the 2,and has shown tremendous amount of potential.
More reasonable to say is Donte is a sophmore and has less confidence than Omri,
in his first year abroad in a completely new surroundings.
That is a more accurate view of the matter.
You can't buy that kind of character,will power and work ethic,and thats what would make him a star someday.
Well I don't think I move Evans for ANYONE this side of LeBron or Dwight. I think I'd rather have Evans than CP3 mostly due to the fact that Evans is on a rookie deal for the next 3 years, then a 'lesser' max contract the following 6 years(as I'm sure he gets maxxed).Oh and not to mention he's 20 rather than 25-26 range, which gives him an additional half a decade to dominate the league going forward.
1. Why do people put Dwight Howard in such high regard? The guy is an athletic freak, but man that guy has not done much besides grab rebounds and swat balls - that's the same class as LBJ? Howard is the same guy who wilts vs true big men, he's the same guy that has NO offensive game, and he's the same guy that has shown almost zero improvement on the offensive side of the ball - to even think about trading Tyreke for him is insane.
2. CP3 is better than Tyreke now, and will be until Tyreke expands his game. CP3 could easily go for 30 pts, 20 assists, 4 rbds, 5 stls if he had anything resembling a team around him. I love Tyreke as much as the next guy, but we need to chillax. As of right now, Tyreke's ceiling is immense, but CP3 is on another level. (*disclaimer - they are not as far apart as it seems, but I really hope that if one had a choice, they would not pick Tyreke over CP3 when starting a team from scratch) This is before we get into the intangibles like leadership, poise, decision making and such.
2. CP3 is better than Tyreke now, and will be until Tyreke expands his game. CP3 could easily go for 30 pts, 20 assists, 4 rbds, 5 stls if he had anything resembling a team around him. I love Tyreke as much as the next guy, but we need to chillax. As of right now, Tyreke's ceiling is immense, but CP3 is on another level. (*disclaimer - they are not as far apart as it seems, but I really hope that if one had a choice, they would not pick Tyreke over CP3 when starting a team from scratch) This is before we get into the intangibles like leadership, poise, decision making and such.
Greene vs Casspi, Casspi is ready to kill. Greene is at the police academy. As of now, BOTH of them have a huge upside. Greene does great as does Omri. You say hes younger, I dont think the primary goal is to have the youngest player on the court. You say Omri is more mentally ready, Rebounds more, and automatic from 3. Sounds like a great fit to our future franchise player to me (REKE).
I don't kno what it is but at times Greene seems UKNOWINGLY uncoordinated. I love greene, I do. But I see him getting most of the bench time once Martin comes back.
I don't kno what it is but at times Greene seems UKNOWINGLY uncoordinated. I love greene, I do. But I see him getting most of the bench time once Martin comes back.