[NBA] Comments that don't warrant their own thread OCT/NOV
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
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But that's really what the argument comes down to. It isn't just that Jordan was great, the argument for retiring #23 is that he did change the game. There were great players before that, for sure. But if you look at so much of what represents the image of the NBA today (playing above the rim, sneaker contracts, dunk contest) a lot of that comes from Jordan. He changed the face of the game. I think there's an argument to be made that Doctor J should get some credit as well, but for sure Jordan's impact on the sport goes a lot deeper than his stats and his championship rings. Everybody who grew up watching basketball in MJ's heyday wanted to play like Michael. That's what Lebron was saying. Without MJ there's no Kobe Bryant, no Lebron James, no Dwyane Wade. That's why so many players choose to wear #23 in the first place. I don't exactly agree that his number should be retired for the entire league, but I think it's fair to say his impact on the game is bigger than any other single player.
People who watched him play, (I actually did but was a youngster), say the Elgin Baylor was the guy that started the high-flying part of the game...there have been many players before Jordan that had shoe contracts, the commercials for the Converse Weapon with Magic and Bird come to mind, though they weren't paid OBSCENE amounts for their endorsements...and my strongest dunk contest recollection was Dr. J flying through the air from the freethrow line back in '76...(see Jordan wasn't the first.) BTW...George Gervin was awful.
As far as making an impact...who took the league that was trudging along with the NBA Finals on tape delay, for god's sake?...the arrival of Magic and Bird.
The NBA changed rules to stop Wilt Chamberlain.
The NBA changed rules to help Michael Jordan.
I don't think you can give MJ credit for bringing high-flying game to the NBA. I can think of many who came before him who played that way as well. Dr. J, Elgin Baylor, and the Big O come to mind right away. And if you are looking for a player who changed the game, I don't think anyone changed the game more than Wilt Chamberlain.
Jordan globalized the game. Ok maybe its too much to say his number should be retired throughout the league. But the way he impacted the game around the world is remarkable. Remember in the '92 olympics when they arrived in barcelona and there was a giant Jordan poster on one of the buildings. You just don't see that kind of impact on a daily basis. And that was damn near 20 years ago.
Bird and Magic were already fading when I started watching basketball and Lebron is younger than me, so perhaps that's your answer right there. Maybe it's just a generational thing. When I was growing up, there was nobody even close to Jordan's league as a basketball player and in many ways there still isn't.
I know Devin Harris is injured, but it's looking more and more like New Jersey (Brooklyn?) has a lock on the top spot in the lottery right now. So now they've got Devin Harris, Brook Lopez, Jay-Z, a possible first overall pick, the richest owner in the NBA, and a new arena in Brooklyn coming soon. Does anyone else still think Lebron is staying in Cleveland? 
99, it's shaky ground to imply that Jordan of all people had a tough time getting to the line compared to anyone of this generation. You got whistled if you breathed on Jordan.
The Pistons had rules to stop Jordan because they knew he would stupidly try to butt his head thru a wall of defenders over and over. The same franchise knew the same thing about Kobe yrs later. They did not have Magic or Bird rules -- they had Lakers and Celtic team defensive strategies.
The Pistons had rules to stop Jordan because they knew he would stupidly try to butt his head thru a wall of defenders over and over. The same franchise knew the same thing about Kobe yrs later. They did not have Magic or Bird rules -- they had Lakers and Celtic team defensive strategies.
That's not what he implied. He said, very clearly, that handchecking was not against the rules in Jordan's heyday. And it wasn't. There's no arguing that changing that rule has affected the game; that's the reason they changed it, after all.
Jordan didn't have Kareem and Wilkes or Parish and McHale. It wasn't until 1990 that Scottie Pippen became a significant contributor. When you played the Lakers or Celtics, you couldn't zero in on one player because they had talent all over the floor. When you played the Bulls, it was all about stopping Michael Jordan.
I'm not taking anything away from Bird or Magic. But let's not act like there was an even playing field between them and Jordan.
Jordan didn't have Kareem and Wilkes or Parish and McHale. It wasn't until 1990 that Scottie Pippen became a significant contributor. When you played the Lakers or Celtics, you couldn't zero in on one player because they had talent all over the floor. When you played the Bulls, it was all about stopping Michael Jordan.
I'm not taking anything away from Bird or Magic. But let's not act like there was an even playing field between them and Jordan.
Crystal clear what he implied. I answered Jordan is a bad example of someone who was supposedly hampered by league rules. No superstars starve for calls, no matter how the land lays, Jordan especially.
Let's also not pretend that Jordan was the same guy in 1990 under Collins than he was after Phil got to him. Aamof, Jordan was the same way under Collins in 2001(!) much less 1990. He forced his way thru defenses on his own volition in those days. Hard to argue that he wouldn't have done the same thing with good teammates before Jackson put cor-...nay...before Jordan himself ACCEPTED the corners that Jackson was trying to put on his game.
Best I'll give you is that the period where he became more of a facilitator precisely coincided with the rise of Pippen and Grant.
Let's also not pretend that Jordan was the same guy in 1990 under Collins than he was after Phil got to him. Aamof, Jordan was the same way under Collins in 2001(!) much less 1990. He forced his way thru defenses on his own volition in those days. Hard to argue that he wouldn't have done the same thing with good teammates before Jackson put cor-...nay...before Jordan himself ACCEPTED the corners that Jackson was trying to put on his game.
Best I'll give you is that the period where he became more of a facilitator precisely coincided with the rise of Pippen and Grant.
There was a lot more pushing and shoving in the NBA in the '80s and early '90s than there is now, and while Jordan certainly didn't starve for calls, there was more physical play by the defenses back then. Anthony Mason wouldn't go two weeks without getting fined in the NBA today. He was one of the Knicks best players. John Starks was a goon, but was considered "the Jordan Stopper". Ruben Patterson was nowhere near as goonish as Starks. Bruce Bowen? Get outta town.
All I'm saying (I won't speak for anyone else anymore) is that the NBA is different now than it was then.
We don't have to take anything away from Pippen and Grant to acknowledge that Jordan was the straw that stirred the drink (you know as well as anyone else that the Bulls don't beat the Lakers in '91 if not for Scottie Pippen matching up with Magic.) The method of attack changed under Phil Jackson, but it was still the Michael Jordan show. And, as good as Pippen and Grant eventually became (not just in '91, but especially in the years that followed), they weren't Kareem and Wilkes/Worthy, and they weren't Parish and McHale.
It also precisely coincided with Phil Jackson's takeover.
All I'm saying (I won't speak for anyone else anymore) is that the NBA is different now than it was then.
We don't have to take anything away from Pippen and Grant to acknowledge that Jordan was the straw that stirred the drink (you know as well as anyone else that the Bulls don't beat the Lakers in '91 if not for Scottie Pippen matching up with Magic.) The method of attack changed under Phil Jackson, but it was still the Michael Jordan show. And, as good as Pippen and Grant eventually became (not just in '91, but especially in the years that followed), they weren't Kareem and Wilkes/Worthy, and they weren't Parish and McHale.
It also precisely coincided with Phil Jackson's takeover.
So, I hear on Sportscenter that Kobe Bryant has tied Kareem Abdul-Jabbar for second-most points as a laker, only a thousand or so points behind the Logo. I don't like Kobe Bryant, and I detest the gd lakers, but given the history of that accursed franchise, I almost feel compelled as an NBA fan to give the devil his due.
We saw him a couple of times against the Kings -- lightning quickness was his big selling point. Could blow by just about anyone. And I think that made him a pretty effective passer on the drive and kick. Don't think he was much of a floor general though -- kind of one of those classic undersized scorers who aren;t big enough for the NBA. Struggled with his shooting, although he seemed streaky + had some big nights. Just checking his stats last season in the NBA, he shot .410 from the field, .691 from the line, and .325 from the NBA 3pt line.
Here's his page at draftexpress: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mike-Taylor-5211/
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Nate! Wrong basket, dude!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...son-shoots-on-wrong-basket-D-A?urn=nba,204081
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ba...son-shoots-on-wrong-basket-D-A?urn=nba,204081
Why did the NBA go from a more contact sport to just calling fouls left and right? It's not like fans like fouls or anything, they slow the game down and and FT's aren't exactly an exciting thing to watch. Did the babying of the players just get out of hand and now they are too far away to right the ship, or is there some other reason why ticky tack fouls are the norm now? Possibly to be able to control games better?
Thunder send Mullens, Weaver to D-League
This news is a couple of days old now but I saw someone maybe here post that the D-League is where draft busts and older players get sent to fade out or something to that extent. Mullens never even played an NBA game. Does this mean they have given up on these guys completely or do they intend to possibly call them back up to the NBA again?
This news is a couple of days old now but I saw someone maybe here post that the D-League is where draft busts and older players get sent to fade out or something to that extent. Mullens never even played an NBA game. Does this mean they have given up on these guys completely or do they intend to possibly call them back up to the NBA again?
A guy like Mullens will be called up again. I think Andrew Bynum played a whole year int he d-league. Both were young 7 footers drafted purely on potential. It's less certain with Weaver. He looked like an important player for them last year, so that's a little puzzling. I haven't followed the team close enough to judge that one. But he's the kind of guy (2nd rounder, journeyman skills) who tends to fade away in the d-league when teams move on to younger players.
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