The one and ONLY Rubio thread (merged)

[drboiffard]

You cant prepare for playing against the likes of the NBA's point guards by playing against FIBA's point guards

I don't see a huuuge difference between a low -average NBA team and a eurobasket contendient as Barcelona is. Saying that NBA has a higher level than FIBA (which is true) doesn't mean every NBA team is better than any FIBA team. For a PG, the main difference between competitions is refereeing , as NBA rules are muuuuch more flexible, but where you see that the most is playing as a forward, not specially in a PG. In fact, I think he'll play against harder deffenses schemes in euroleague than he'd do in 50% of matches in NBA.

The main problems of Rubio right now are his shoot technique and to stay more cold-headed so he can get more responsabilities. For the first thing is better to stay. The second one is only on him.

 

[Chupacabra]

I don't see a huuuge difference between a low -average NBA team and a eurobasket contendient as Barcelona is. Saying that NBA has a higher level than FIBA (which is true) doesn't mean every NBA team is better than any FIBA team. For a PG, the main difference between competitions is refereeing , as NBA rules are muuuuch more flexible, but where you see that the most is playing as a forward, not specially in a PG. In fact, I think he'll play against harder deffenses schemes in euroleague than he'd do in 50% of matches in NBA.

The main problems of Rubio right now are his shoot technique and to stay more cold-headed so he can get more responsabilities. For the first thing is better to stay. The second one is only on him.

Theres defensive and offensive schemes and then theres defensive and offensive TALENT. Even if i over exaggerate and say that FIBA defense and schemes are tougher than the NBA (they arent), the individual TALENT Rubio will face in the NBA is nothing like that of FIBA. Rubio will face a top 20 point guard in the world almost everynight. The main difference between NBA and FIBA in terms of point guard play isnt refereeing, its TALENT.

 

[drboiffard]

So what? We all know there are much more talent in NBA than in euroleague, but the point is if he can improve staying or not. Improving is not only a matter of who you play against. Playing against Nash or Rose doesn't make improve your shoot techinque, training does. And although it is true deffense would be much easier here for him, playing against a run'n'gun NBA team doesn't make improve your pick and roll or creativity, playing against closer and zone deffense does.

Maybe Rubio is hyped a little, but only a little. He's a guy who scored 54 points and made 20 assist in an euro-sub 16 final, wich has a higher level than ANY high school game. You've seem here play in the Olympics final against NBA players in the Olympics and he did it pretty well for a guy of his age (17 then). He has won playoff matches against a euro-top 10 team as Real Madrid by himself. This year he has a winning team, he should have passed the Olympics and the fame hangover this year and he will continue improving, playing in a euroleague team against best FIBA teams.
He has an incredible court vision and he could be easily a Nash-like PG in the NBA. And specially considering that precissely Nash started being an All-Star PG in his 4TH YEAR, I see completely ridiculous to blame Rubio because a only bad game.

He has to improve, but hell, there are a lot of gray tones between being the rookie of the year and being a failure who isn't prepared to play in NBA.

 

[Gary]

^^^ It's true, and I would go as far as saying that the Spanish team is far superior to any college team.. So any young guys with talent playing in competitive Euro teams will garner as much hype as college players.. Ahh well.. Two more years if not more until we get to see Rubio play in the NBA.

 

[AriesMar27]

that and he will actually get the bulk of the minutes playing pg in a place where he is comfortable. there are a lot of young players that dont match their hype because they were being asked to do too much too soon. look at beasley, he is a talented player but maybe he should have stayed in college one more year.

after 2 or 3 years of playing in europe rubio will come over to the nba and be a lot more fundamentally sound than most of the players in this years draft in that same time span. he was already head and shoulders better thqn most of the players before the draft. most of the rookies who will be playing in the nba wont get that many minutes and some will be playing against inferior talent in the nbdl... greene was tearing up nbdl teams yet looked lost playing for the worst team in the nba....

i was willing to wait for rubio and i still am... i might to start looking for places to watch his games online... i doubt timewarner has a cable package that includes fiba games... or maybe they do, i should call....

 

[Chupacabra]

Why are we comparing Spanish teams to college teams? The comparison is Fiba teams to NBA teams. Instead of playing in the NBA Rubio chose to play in Europe. Not instead of playing in the NCAA Rubio chose to play in Europe. Everyone that thinks clearly knows that the best way to improve your game is to play against the best talent. If Rubio is an amazing prodigy he should have no problem playing against the best players right now. So why do some of you keep pulling the "he's much better off staying in europe" card?

 

[drboiffard]

Everyone that thinks clearly knows that the best way to improve your game is to play against the best talent.

Everyone that has ever played competition basketball or knows the game a little bit more than seeing it from the sofa while drinking a beer knows that improving it's a little bit more complicated than this cheap discourse for NIKE ads.

If Rubio is an amazing prodigy he should have no problem playing against the best players right now.

He'd have no problem to play right now against the best players. He already played against the very best players in the olympics, and he did it quite well.

He stays here for economical reasons out of his control.

So why do some of you keep pulling the "he's much better off staying in europe" card?

The point is although he could play there YET, he can develop and improve here faster. So he's much better off staying in europe because he can develop here faster than there. The Rubio who goes to NBA with 21 years old will be much better than the Rubio who goes now and plays 2 years there:

-He will improve his shot technique better here, as he'll have much more training time. That's a fact.
-He will improve his court vision and pick-and-roll ability, as he'll have to play against much more tactical and changing defenses. Another fact.
-Playing with Barcelona the euroleague will also get him starting PG minutes in play-offs at the top european level, what is much better for his concentration improving and handling responsabilities than playing the same or less minutes for a low profile NBA team which won't reach the play-offs in this year and the next. Another fact.
-The only thing he cant improve here for playing there in the future is deffense, as here he won't be deffending any Derrick Rose under more flexible rules. But hey, I think the other things are much important right now, specially the shoot technique.
- The only thing that doesn't mind at all to adapt is the game chalendar, as the difference will be the same now and in 2 years.

 

[Rookie]

Everyone that has ever played competition basketball or knows the game a little bit more than seeing it from the sofa while drinking a beer knows that improving it's a little bit more complicated than this cheap discourse for NIKE ads.

Agreed...but you can still apply logic to your thought. I agreed with Chupa that tougher competition, you improve much better than if you were to play in a leeser competitive league.

He'd have no problem to play right now against the best players. He already played against the very best players in the olympics, and he did it quite well.

A good game against the best doesn't prove much. But I do agreed that it does give some indication that he could be ready. But to boldly state that he is ready...raises more questions. Sound like the guy dunking on Lebron is ready for the NBA.

The point is although he could play there YET, he can develop and improve here faster. So he's much better off staying in europe because he can develop here faster than there. The Rubio who goes to NBA with 21 years old will be much better than the Rubio who goes now and plays 2 years there:

Is the Rubio who's 21 playing in the NBA for 2 years better than the one in Europe for 2 years? I think so but again it's just my opinion.

-He will improve his shot technique better here, as he'll have much more training time. That's a fact.
-He will improve his court vision and pick-and-roll ability, as he'll have to play against much more tactical and changing defenses. Another fact.
-Playing with Barcelona the euroleague will also get him starting PG minutes in play-offs at the top european level, what is much better for his concentration improving and handling responsabilities than playing the same or less minutes for a low profile NBA team which won't reach the play-offs in this year and the next. Another fact.
-The only thing he cant improve here for playing there in the future is deffense, as here he won't be deffending any Derrick Rose under more flexible rules. But hey, I think the other things are much important right now, specially the shoot technique.
- The only thing that doesn't mind at all to adapt is the game chalendar, as the difference will be the same now and in 2 years.

None of those are facts...we simply don't know what he can or cannot do because it hasn't happened or proven yet.

Some of those are just opinion which I disagree. Playing for low profile team in the NBA wont improve his da da da? They still have to play NBA team...I think Lebron developed pretty well playing for the Cleveland (extreme example but the point is made). If you got it, you got it.

 

[AriesMar27]

Some of those are just opinion which I disagree. Playing for low profile team in the NBA wont improve his da da da? They still have to play NBA team...I think Lebron developed pretty well playing for the Cleveland (extreme example but the point is made). If you got it, you got it.

kwame brown played for the wizards and lakers yet he didnt improve.... playing against the best competition doesnt always make you a better player. same could be said for darko. carloss arroyo played for the jazz and had the same coach as john stockton, and he is still a scrub....

if rubio plays in spain for 2 years he has a better chance to improve on his weakness than someone being thrown to the wolves. after 15 years of playing in the nba as a starting pg jason kidd still cant shoot the damn ball... neither can andre miller....

shaq still cant shoot freethrows.... the list goes on and on, they became great players in spite of their very obvious weaknesses... rubio can do the same. but playing in spain may give him a chance to improve in ways that he never could playing for the crappy twolves....

 

[ElRey]

Any of you guys know how we could watch the Euro championships? Spain lost to Serbia in their first game, which is quite surprising. I would like to see Rubio in the Euro championships.

 

[Rookie]

kwame brown played for the wizards and lakers yet he didnt improve.... playing against the best competition doesnt always make you a better player. same could be said for darko. carloss arroyo played for the jazz and had the same coach as john stockton, and he is still a scrub....

if rubio plays in spain for 2 years he has a better chance to improve on his weakness than someone being thrown to the wolves. after 15 years of playing in the nba as a starting pg jason kidd still cant shoot the damn ball... neither can andre miller....

shaq still cant shoot freethrows.... the list goes on and on, they became great players in spite of their very obvious weaknesses... rubio can do the same. but playing in spain may give him a chance to improve in ways that he never could playing for the crappy twolves....

Its not that they didn't improve...it's that they couldn't hang with the big boys.

Regarding Jason Kidd/Shaq...etc about their weakness...not every player is perfect at everything. They dominate what they're good at. I don't get your point in mentioning those guys. Like I stated...if you got it, you got it.

 

[Chupacabra]

Everyone that has ever played competition basketball or knows the game a little bit more than seeing it from the sofa while drinking a beer knows that improving it's a little bit more complicated than this cheap discourse for NIKE ads.



He'd have no problem to play right now against the best players. He already played against the very best players in the olympics, and he did it quite well.

He stays here for economical reasons out of his control.



The point is although he could play there YET, he can develop and improve here faster. So he's much better off staying in europe because he can develop here faster than there. The Rubio who goes to NBA with 21 years old will be much better than the Rubio who goes now and plays 2 years there:

-He will improve his shot technique better here, as he'll have much more training time. That's a fact.
-He will improve his court vision and pick-and-roll ability, as he'll have to play against much more tactical and changing defenses. Another fact.
-Playing with Barcelona the euroleague will also get him starting PG minutes in play-offs at the top european level, what is much better for his concentration improving and handling responsabilities than playing the same or less minutes for a low profile NBA team which won't reach the play-offs in this year and the next. Another fact.
-The only thing he cant improve here for playing there in the future is deffense, as here he won't be deffending any Derrick Rose under more flexible rules. But hey, I think the other things are much important right now, specially the shoot technique.
- The only thing that doesn't mind at all to adapt is the game chalendar, as the difference will be the same now and in 2 years.

The Rubio 21 year old that has 2 years of NBA experience is better than the 21 year old Rubio that has 2 extra years of FIBA and no NBA experience. Theres 24 hours in a day in the USA just like there are 24 hours in a day in Europe. If Rubio wanted to train long and hard in the USA it wouldnt be a problem. Stop acting like the NBA doesnt have shooting coaches.The most significant fact of all is that after 2 more years in Europe Rubio still wont have any significant experience against NBA players. If Rubio needs more time to prepare for the NBA then why in the hell was he the #5 pick? Can anyone explain this? Im sick of everyone trying to bail out this turkey.

 

[drboiffard]

It's not a question of "if NBA also has shooting coaches". It's a question of the number of games that are being played in one competition and another, and how many training time gives you in one case and in the other. I think is very obvious, but maybe you think that FIBA schedules are the same than NBA, and they aren't. FIBA competitions have a lot less matches than NBA, so he'll get much more training time: it's a fact. There are 24 hours a week the same here and there, but here he'll play 1 game per week instead of 4 (2 at the most when the euroleague starts) So YES, he'll have a lot more training time here than there. This is the fact.

Of course, we don't have a Delorean with a flux condeser to compare the two hypotetical Rubios from 2011 but its pretty obvious for every people who knows both competitions that here he can improve better his weakness precissely because of having a lot more training time... and a lot more percentage of decissive matches, which requires much more concentration. This is more debatable than the "training time" point, but I think that specially for a PG is better to play in a european top level than in a low NBA team. If he were a forward it were a different case.

If Rubio needs more time to prepare for the NBA then why in the hell was he the #5 pick?

Rubio doesn't need more time to prepare for the NBA, he could play there this year (and he would have done it if he had'nt the damn payout) but if he prepares more, he'd arrive as a better player.

The question is why Rubio have chosen to be draftable this year knowing he'd be in such a complicated situation because of his buyout.

 

[AriesMar27]

Its not that they didn't improve...it's that they couldn't hang with the big boys.

Regarding Jason Kidd/Shaq...etc about their weakness...not every player is perfect at everything. They dominate what they're good at. I don't get your point in mentioning those guys. Like I stated...if you got it, you got it.

what i was trying to say is that they had correctable problems that they couldnt overcome but still became great players. the main weakness of rubio would be harder to improve playing against nba players and he will have to adapt to that. if he stays in spain he can learn how to play at a higher level before playing against the highest level of competition.

if rubio played in the nba this season he would have been scared to shoot by the end of the season and would never develop a reliable jumper. look at kidd and miller..... he still wouldve been a good player but he would never add that aspect to his game. he can learn to shoot if he works on it in europe. he wont have dwight howard guarding him on a pick n roll, thats a scary though for a pg that cant shoot. you cant shoot from distance and he will block your shot if you drive. he can develop a reliable jumper and learn to play defense quicker in europe than he would in the nba.

thats one of my fears about evans playing pg, the shock might be too much. remember juan dixon and dajuan wagner? they were the ultimate combo guards, more 2 than 1.... they couldnt take it. dixon was the ncaa basketball tournament most outstanding player and wagner once score 100 points in high school. they were good players, but they werent ready to be nba pgs....

 

[Chupacabra]

what i was trying to say is that they had correctable problems that they couldnt overcome but still became great players. the main weakness of rubio would be harder to improve playing against nba players and he will have to adapt to that. if he stays in spain he can learn how to play at a higher level before playing against the highest level of competition.

if rubio played in the nba this season he would have been scared to shoot by the end of the season and would never develop a reliable jumper. look at kidd and miller..... he still wouldve been a good player but he would never add that aspect to his game. he can learn to shoot if he works on it in europe. he wont have dwight howard guarding him on a pick n roll, thats a scary though for a pg that cant shoot. you cant shoot from distance and he will block your shot if you drive. he can develop a reliable jumper and learn to play defense quicker in europe than he would in the nba.

thats one of my fears about evans playing pg, the shock might be too much. remember juan dixon and dajuan wagner? they were the ultimate combo guards, more 2 than 1.... they couldnt take it. dixon was the ncaa basketball tournament most outstanding player and wagner once score 100 points in high school. they were good players, but they werent ready to be nba pgs....

Dixon was a small 2 guard. Wagner suffered a career ending/altering injury. The shock might be too much for alot of guys that get drafted. You never know until they play for a little while. If you dont think Rubio would have ever developed a reliable jumper and would have been too afraid to shoot the ball due to shock, then why did you want the Kings to draft him? You do realize you cant have it both ways, right? On second thought, maybe you dont...

 

[TaxMan]

Of course, we don't have a Delorean with a flux condeser to compare the two hypotetical Rubios from 2011 but its pretty obvious for every people who knows both competitions that here he can improve better his weakness precissely because of having a lot more training time...

Not with a flux condeser...but if you had a flux capacitor, now that's a different story. Just need to get it up to 1.21 jigawatts!

 

[beb0p]

thats one of my fears about evans playing pg, the shock might be too much. remember juan dixon and dajuan wagner? they were the ultimate combo guards, more 2 than 1.... they couldnt take it. dixon was the ncaa basketball tournament most outstanding player and wagner once score 100 points in high school. they were good players, but they werent ready to be nba pgs....

Yes, I remember Dixon and Wagner. Dixon was never ever seriously considered a starting PG. And we'll never know how good Wagner would have been if the kidney ailment hadn't struck him down.

The NBA is littered with SGs who couldn't transition to PGs. But there are enough who successfully did it to give one hope.

I found the following article on Chauncey Billups' transition from SG (or at least a SG in a PG's body) to PG as well as his early struggle and subsequent success. Pretty cool read.

http://niketalk.yuku.com/topic/175761

 

[KingsCitizen]

Having shooting mechanics improve better when playing in Europe than in the NBA is just another weak reason to cover up Rubio's actual inability to play this year in the NBA. Tony Parker is a good example of PG which has a questionable perimeter game. So is our own Kevin Martin which started with a pretty weird shot himself. But both improved dramatically while playing in the NBA. And Parker did play in Europe but only got his mechanics corrected properly in the NBA.

And I doubt even Rubio said that by staying in Europe his shooting mechanics will improve. NBA is the highest level of competition in basketball. And it doesn't get that name by only having lame shooting coaches.

Rubio just can't play this season no matter what the odds are. Jason Levien is a pretty admired guy for overseas contract negotiations and I believe the Kings themselves could not see a solid possibility of Rubio actually playing in the NBA this season. Petrie already highlighted that we will only draft a player who will play this season. And that is a statement I strongly support. Coz we are not like the Lakers or Spurs that have the luxury to compete at high level without even drafting top 20 players. Even if we fall to #5, we might as well have drafted Flynn instead of Rubio.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Not with a flux condeser...but if you had a flux capacitor, now that's a different story. Just need to get it up to 1.21 jigawatts!

1.21 Jigawatts!!!!
[yt=1.21 Jigawatts]I5cYgRnfFDA[/yt]

Sorry, had to do it.

 

[LoungeLizard]

It's not a question of "if NBA also has shooting coaches". It's a question of the number of games that are being played in one competition and another, and how many training time gives you in one case and in the other. I think is very obvious, but maybe you think that FIBA schedules are the same than NBA, and they aren't. FIBA competitions have a lot less matches than NBA, so he'll get much more training time: it's a fact. There are 24 hours a week the same here and there, but here he'll play 1 game per week instead of 4 (2 at the most when the euroleague starts) So YES, he'll have a lot more training time here than there. This is the fact.

Of course, we don't have a Delorean with a flux condeser to compare the two hypotetical Rubios from 2011 but its pretty obvious for every people who knows both competitions that here he can improve better his weakness precissely because of having a lot more training time... and a lot more percentage of decissive matches, which requires much more concentration. This is more debatable than the "training time" point, but I think that specially for a PG is better to play in a european top level than in a low NBA team. If he were a forward it were a different case.



Rubio doesn't need more time to prepare for the NBA, he could play there this year (and he would have done it if he had'nt the damn payout) but if he prepares more, he'd arrive as a better player.

The question is why Rubio have chosen to be draftable this year knowing he'd be in such a complicated situation because of his buyout.

What? I thought Ricky would play for free......(watch video in link)
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-141/Ricky-Rubio-Would-Play-for-Free.html

 

[est.1999]

god why is everyone still talking about this guy? He's not on the kings and he's not even in the NBA.

 

[AriesMar27]

god why is everyone still talking about this guy? He's not on the kings and he's not even in the NBA.

well wouldnt this thread be in the appropriate place then? the nba section of the forum.... if this were in personnel moves or the main kings rap section you would have a point. but no one is talking about rubio on this team but him playing in the nba which will always be a relavent topic until he actually plays in the nba. whne that happens we will talk about how well he plays and if waiting 2 years had any affect on his game and whether or not he is any good....

 

[VF21]

god why is everyone still talking about this guy? He's not on the kings and he's not even in the NBA.

Not everyone is still talking about him. I think it's pretty easy to avoid the discussion if you're not interested, considering the title of the thread and all...

 

[est.1999]

yeah but it's not just this thread where he is talked about. There are multiple threads where his name gets brought up. It's frustrating cause I feel the only reason he is talked about is cause people are still bitter that we passed on him for reke.

 

[VF21]

If you notice, there are very few people still clinging to that bitterness. I figure let them work it out in a support group-type thread and hopefully they'll eventually get past it.

 

[est.1999]

haha yeah I don't dislike the guy at all. I appreciate that he even tried to find a way to buy out that contract to come to the NBA and I wasn't against picking him and was actually surprised when I heard rekes name called but I'm still more confident in rekes game than rubios.

 

[drboiffard]

Having shooting mechanics improve better when playing in Europe than in the NBA is just another weak reason to cover up Rubio's actual inability to play this year in the NBA. Tony Parker is a good example of PG which has a questionable perimeter game. So is our own Kevin Martin which started with a pretty weird shot himself. But both improved dramatically while playing in the NBA. And Parker did play in Europe but only got his mechanics corrected properly in the NBA.

And I doubt even Rubio said that by staying in Europe his shooting mechanics will improve. NBA is the highest level of competition in basketball. And it doesn't get that name by only having lame shooting coaches.

Rubio just can't play this season no matter what the odds are. Jason Levien is a pretty admired guy for overseas contract negotiations and I believe the Kings themselves could not see a solid possibility of Rubio actually playing in the NBA this season. Petrie already highlighted that we will only draft a player who will play this season. And that is a statement I strongly support. Coz we are not like the Lakers or Spurs that have the luxury to compete at high level without even drafting top 20 players. Even if we fall to #5, we might as well have drafted Flynn instead of Rubio.

I'm not saying Rubio wouldn't improve anything in the NBA. I'm saying here he would improve faster. I dont wanna discuss the "NBA is a better competition so that implies everything in every detail in NBA is better than FIBA" because it is very, very ridiculous. Tony Parker was on a french team so the comparision is also ridiculous. French basketball sucks, they haven't reached any euro Final Four since 1992. Of course he did improve a lot in NBA.

Guys, you don't know much about european basketball, do you? I don't blame you of having a NBA-centric vision of basketball (I wouldn't care at all about european basketball if I had born ther), but I can get so tired in this thread arguing and arguing against "NBA is better in everything because is a better competition"-like arguments. Maybe you overrate NBA, maybe you underrate FIBA top competitions but its so tiring.

Anyway I was only saying why I think Rubio will improve better staying here two more years, I've always said that picking up Tyreke and Sergio was by far a better move than picking up Rubio.

The complications of Rubio playing this year are only because of his buyout. Not because he isn't prepared to play right now in the NBA. The difference is BIG.

 

[drboiffard]

What? I thought Ricky would play for free......(watch video in link)
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-141/Ricky-Rubio-Would-Play-for-Free.html

Yes, if he had been picked up #4 he would have probably play for free. But being picked up #6 implies he loses a lot of money if he buys himself his buyout.

 

[ElRey]

For those of you interested, here are Rubio's stats so far from the Euro championships after two games. You can make what you want out of it, but hardly awe inspiring numbers so far. Some of these Euro National teams can hang with the best of NBA teams, so you can somewhat get a glimpse of how Rubio does against NBA competition. Of course, it'd be nice to watch these games. anyone?

Season: 2009 (European Championships)

Team G MN PTS 2FGP -3FGP -FT -RT -AS PF BS ST
Spain 2 25.0 5.5 42.9% 0% 62.5% 2.0 4.5 3.0 0.5 0.5

 

[AriesMar27]

For those of you interested, here are Rubio's stats so far from the Euro championships after two games. You can make what you want out of it, but hardly awe inspiring numbers so far. Some of these Euro National teams can hang with the best of NBA teams, so you can somewhat get a glimpse of how Rubio does against NBA competition. Of course, it'd be nice to watch these games. anyone?

Season: 2009 (European Championships)

Team G MN PTS 2FGP -3FGP -FT -RT -AS PF BS ST
Spain 2 25.0 5.5 42.9% 0% 62.5% 2.0 4.5 3.0 0.5 0.5

arent assists calculated differently in fiba? i heard thats why their assist numbers are always lower than nba players....4.5 assists in 25 minutes, not bad.... not bad at all....