Jerry Reynolds on the Rise guys.
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
All Jerry said was that he could see situations where the Kings could have Martin, Evans, and Cisco on the floor at the same time, with Cisco and Evans being the main ball handlers. He said that if they were to guard Martin with their SF, Martin would have a quickness advantage on him, but that on the other end of the floor, Cisco would guard the other teams SF.
It just sounded like semantics to me. Cisco would still esentially be the SF, even though he was handling the ball.
It just sounded like semantics to me. Cisco would still esentially be the SF, even though he was handling the ball.
Hey, it's Jerry who says we might be playing Kevin at the 3, I'm only trying to make sense of why anyone would do such a thing, when there are already at least 3 other players on the roster for whom SF is their natural position. I don't like smallball, and as I said, I doubt that it would work very often for us. If you have a more plausible, non-smallball explanation as to why we'd want to try playing Kevin at SF, I'd be very interested in hearing it.
I suggested that Udrih would probably wind up as the last-string PG, which is his natural position at the moment. Mischaracterizing me as wanting Beno to play PG for us is a straw man argument. I don't think any of us want Beno as our last-resort PG, I don't think any of us want him on the roster at all. I don't want May as a backup PF, either. But those are the bench guys the FO has blessed us with. They will be getting played at those positions this year, whether we like them or not.
I suggested that Udrih would probably wind up as the last-string PG, which is his natural position at the moment. Mischaracterizing me as wanting Beno to play PG for us is a straw man argument. I don't think any of us want Beno as our last-resort PG, I don't think any of us want him on the roster at all. I don't want May as a backup PF, either. But those are the bench guys the FO has blessed us with. They will be getting played at those positions this year, whether we like them or not.
What's the big deal about positions? Kevin can score as a 2 or a 3, but he can't guard his shadow so it really doesn't matter. Cisco can play 3 positions and can guard people. He's proven he can play 2 or 3, but he turns the ball over a lot when playing the point. The bottom line is the Kings need a lot of help so Jerry makes a lot of sense when he talks about people being the floor together. The Kings aren't going to the playoffs this year, so what differecne does it make? Put the best players on the floor and let them play.
That's not a particularly fair potshot. In the four years that Reynolds held the head coaching position ('86-'87 to '89-'90), he coached 170 games and compiled a .329 winning percentage. During those same four years, three other coaches -- Dick Motta, Bill Russell, and Phil Johnson (who led the '85-'86 Kings to the playoffs) -- coached 158 games at a combined winning percentage of .297, and not a one of them had a better winning percentage over those years than Johnson's .304. Those teams weren't any good. I'm not saying Jerry was a fantastic coach -- if he were he'd probably still be coaching. I'm saying that life gave him lemons, and he made lemonade better than three other guys who got the opportunity. It looks petty to take a potshot at a guy for that.
Again, context is helpful here. Yes, our winning percentage has decreased in 6 of the past 7 years. But counting the first season of decrease (meaning NOT counting the best season), our record over those 7 years is 296-278 (.516) -- not even a losing record. Let me emphasize that: during our "NBA record for most consecutive years of futility" we are not even under .500. To take the first example that comes to mind, the L.A. Clippers are 221-353 (.385) over the same period and 150-392 (.277) over the '93-94 to '99-'00 seasons, which looks at a glance to be their worst seven year stretch. During that stretch they never had more than two consecutive seasons where their record got worse, they just sucked the whole time.
And let me put it another (extreme) way: If the Cavaliers (66-16 this year) were to go 65-17, 64-18, 63-19, 62-20, 61-21, 60-22, and 59-23 in the next seven years, they would by your definition of futility have "broken" our record. Obviously we didn't decrease by one win a year, but when a seven-year stretch of "NBA record futility" has four consecutive playoff years, something is wrong with the definition of futility.
Again, context is helpful here. Yes, our winning percentage has decreased in 6 of the past 7 years. But counting the first season of decrease (meaning NOT counting the best season), our record over those 7 years is 296-278 (.516) -- not even a losing record. Let me emphasize that: during our "NBA record for most consecutive years of futility" we are not even under .500. To take the first example that comes to mind, the L.A. Clippers are 221-353 (.385) over the same period and 150-392 (.277) over the '93-94 to '99-'00 seasons, which looks at a glance to be their worst seven year stretch. During that stretch they never had more than two consecutive seasons where their record got worse, they just sucked the whole time.
And let me put it another (extreme) way: If the Cavaliers (66-16 this year) were to go 65-17, 64-18, 63-19, 62-20, 61-21, 60-22, and 59-23 in the next seven years, they would by your definition of futility have "broken" our record. Obviously we didn't decrease by one win a year, but when a seven-year stretch of "NBA record futility" has four consecutive playoff years, something is wrong with the definition of futility.
Back more on topic: did any notice that JR mentioned Kmart spending some time at the #3 (VF?). I have discussed this before, and as usual, most people think I am out in left field. Maybe I am, but at least I have JR as some company.
I'm not a position purist. Martin isn't a 3 by any means. But, as far as I know, there is no rule in the NBA that says you must have a 1-2-3-4-5 on the court at the same time. We can mix it up and I think this is something Westphal will be working on. Subbing in different players to keep the defense on its toes can be a good strategy, IF those players work well together and know each other's games. And that, again, is where I think Westphal and the rest of the coaching staff are going to be focusing their efforts, at least in the beginning. Mold these young players into a cohesive unit and the sky is the limit...
Ok, that's just a "duh". The reason the opposing team would guard Kevin with their SF and Cisco with their OG is...wishful thinking basically. We've run that set plenty of times the last few years, I have yet to see Peja assigned to check Kevin.
Actually I think it far more likely this year that we may see Kevin guarded by opposing PGs while the OGs take Evans -- guarding Kevin with a PG has long been a saavy answer to his quickness, and now with a power tweener guard next to him that would be a logical switchup.
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Whats with the WE paleface? Speak for yourself. At least your consistant. Your still making with the negative ways. One thing I know for sure. I won't find your picture under the word OBJECTIVE in the dictionary.
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worse than a 17 win team? even if we ended up with the same record each year we would be a much better team. we wouldnt have beno signed to a 5 year deal. we wouldnt had thomas on the team... we didnt get any picks in either of those trades so i dont see what we would lose in keeping them except for the fact that we wouldve been under the cap 2 years ago. assuming we dont throw out mle contracts every year. because when we had webber we didnt use mle like we did after he was traded. we used part of it to sign useful players for a year or 2 like keon and jim jackson... we didnt give either one a 5 year deal.
petrie made trades for players that complimented the players we have on the team. we wouldve been a much better team. and we would still have martin, garcia, hawes, thompson and evans by your logic if we would be worse off. thats addition by subtraction; subtract benos contract and the painful memories of having thomas pouting on the bench claiming to be a starting quality pf. knowing what you know now how could you possibly believe that we would be worse off keeping better players? both of whom would not be on the team today and we would have a lot more cash to spend. instead of being 6 million under the cap we would be 18 million under the cap with the same core of martin, thompson, hawes and evans... are you serious?
petrie made trades for players that complimented the players we have on the team. we wouldve been a much better team. and we would still have martin, garcia, hawes, thompson and evans by your logic if we would be worse off. thats addition by subtraction; subtract benos contract and the painful memories of having thomas pouting on the bench claiming to be a starting quality pf. knowing what you know now how could you possibly believe that we would be worse off keeping better players? both of whom would not be on the team today and we would have a lot more cash to spend. instead of being 6 million under the cap we would be 18 million under the cap with the same core of martin, thompson, hawes and evans... are you serious?
You go back and look at the Kings roster back then. It was garbage. He had Danny Ainge and not much else. Nobody could have taken that team to the playoffs.
You can scoff all you want at what you think he didn't do. But he's been hired into college jobs and NBA jobs. I'm guessing your resume stopped somewhere around the TV?
Back more on topic: did any notice that JR mentioned Kmart spending some time at the #3 (VF?). I have discussed this before, and as usual, most people think I am out in left field. Maybe I am, but at least I have JR as some company.
I have to ask - what do you consider "support"?
also, I think you mean "optimistic" instead of "objective" since objective means facing things without personal bias, which would be subjective.
You continually berate people for being optimistic as though there's something wrong with looking for the good in the situation. That's not supporting your team ... or its fans.
Sorry, dude, but comments like "there's no shame in admitting when you are beat even if its before the fight starts" is defeatist and pessimistic and anything BUT supportive of one's team.
Just my two cents, but I think you've been hanging with your Laker buddies a little too long. For a lot of us who have been Kings fans for a very long time, it's not just about the winning. I think you may have lost that part somewhere along the line...
also, I think you mean "optimistic" instead of "objective" since objective means facing things without personal bias, which would be subjective.
You continually berate people for being optimistic as though there's something wrong with looking for the good in the situation. That's not supporting your team ... or its fans.
Sorry, dude, but comments like "there's no shame in admitting when you are beat even if its before the fight starts" is defeatist and pessimistic and anything BUT supportive of one's team.
Just my two cents, but I think you've been hanging with your Laker buddies a little too long. For a lot of us who have been Kings fans for a very long time, it's not just about the winning. I think you may have lost that part somewhere along the line...
I also like the post. When Webber went down with the knee injury it was pretty much the equivalent of about 85 million being flushed. That is very difficult for any sports franchise to recover from when you arr talking about guaranteed contracts.
Back more on topic: did any notice that JR mentioned Kmart spending some time at the #3 (VF?). I have discussed this before, and as usual, most people think I am out in left field. Maybe I am, but at least I have JR as some company.
Back more on topic: did any notice that JR mentioned Kmart spending some time at the #3 (VF?). I have discussed this before, and as usual, most people think I am out in left field. Maybe I am, but at least I have JR as some company.
Kevin eats smaller point guards for lunch. I've seen him do it repeatedly (and have looked at this aspect of his game carefully because of the pathetic inability of Peja and Miller to take advantage of such matchups). In fact, he just lights up like a 100 waat bulb when he sees he's being guarded by a little guy. The opposing team is going to have to pick their poison. Either way they go, it's going to be a problem for them.
I believe it also boils down to which point guard we're talking about. Some of the star PGs are quick and are strong, such as Deron Williams. Those kind of guards will bother Kevin I think, and he'll end up doing his I'm-just-gonna-try-to-get-to-the-free-throw-line-without-actually-trying-to-score-normally thing. Thankfully, Kevin's gotten stronger and with his ankle healed hopefully he'll stand a better chance at taking advantage of the mismatch.
No, typical internet forum response. Ad hom, Poisoning the Well, and No True Scotsman fallacies are on every message board and will pop up anytime people disagree.
Personally, I think Jerry is spot on with the Ridnour comparison. When Ridnour had Oregon in the top ten and they came to Arco for March Madness, he did a LOT of the same things that Rubio does. The comparison is valid, and until Rubio gets into an NBA game and proves differently, it will stand.
Personally, I think Jerry is spot on with the Ridnour comparison. When Ridnour had Oregon in the top ten and they came to Arco for March Madness, he did a LOT of the same things that Rubio does. The comparison is valid, and until Rubio gets into an NBA game and proves differently, it will stand.
That's not true at all -- some of the best defense played on Kevin has been played by PGs. Negates his quickness edge, and he does not have the ballhandling to deal with pesky guys nor the post game to punish them inside. Where he thrives is against slower guys. He loves the switch on SFs or PFs and its an almost automatic three or foul drawn.
Of course it goes without saying that a bad defender at PG is going to get lit up by Kevin just like they get lit up by everybody.
Of course it goes without saying that a bad defender at PG is going to get lit up by Kevin just like they get lit up by everybody.
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Ok, um, what? Some of the best defense played on Kevin has been done by pg's who are easily 5 inches shorter than him? Brick, I usually agree and respect everything, and I mean EVERYTHING you say here but this one time I think you are wrong.
The only pg's I think who have had any matter of success defending Kevin are Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, and Chauncey, and to a lesser extent Baron Davis. Any other pg gets torn a new one. The best defense on Kevin comes from people at his own position, Roy, Kobe, Wade, Sprewell (I'm just kidding about the Sprewell part), Igoudala, Ginobli, Pierce, VC, Mayo.
Lets face the music. Kevin will help create mismatches, whether they are positive or not is going to rely on him and his ball handling. Evans is going to be a physical beast that oftentimes will be guarding the other team's sg and Kevin will be on the pg. Those times it will be because the sg is more dominant than the pg and needs to be shut down and Kevin won't be physical enough to meet the challenge.
I can't wait to see how fast Evans is going to grow and mature, he's 19 years old with the sky as his limit. Previously the tough defensive wing assignments went to Salmons but now it is going to go to Evans. That means guarding Kobe, Wade, Roy, all the best wings in the league. A little help will come from Garcia but probably not much from Martin. Going to be interesting to see how defensive assignements are juggled.
The only pg's I think who have had any matter of success defending Kevin are Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, and Chauncey, and to a lesser extent Baron Davis. Any other pg gets torn a new one. The best defense on Kevin comes from people at his own position, Roy, Kobe, Wade, Sprewell (I'm just kidding about the Sprewell part), Igoudala, Ginobli, Pierce, VC, Mayo.
Lets face the music. Kevin will help create mismatches, whether they are positive or not is going to rely on him and his ball handling. Evans is going to be a physical beast that oftentimes will be guarding the other team's sg and Kevin will be on the pg. Those times it will be because the sg is more dominant than the pg and needs to be shut down and Kevin won't be physical enough to meet the challenge.
I can't wait to see how fast Evans is going to grow and mature, he's 19 years old with the sky as his limit. Previously the tough defensive wing assignments went to Salmons but now it is going to go to Evans. That means guarding Kobe, Wade, Roy, all the best wings in the league. A little help will come from Garcia but probably not much from Martin. Going to be interesting to see how defensive assignements are juggled.