2009 Draft

[Den-Den]

Ok, as we head into that glorious time of year known as March Madness, who do you think the Monarchs will take in the first round? What position?

While this may not be a position that Whiz fills in the first round, I am hoping that another point guard will be backing up Ticha. I am quite fond of Aqua, but I do not see her as the future to build around in the post Ticha years. A few names have popped up recently on the radar that I was not as familiar with: Kristi Cirone (Illinois State) and Shalee Lehning (Kansas State). Good info on both can be found in Graham Hayes article on espn.com:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/storycolumnist=hays_graham&id=3935520

Anyone have an opinion on whether either would be a good fit for our Monarchs?

 

[6th]

Who do I think he'll take or who do I want. Well, I will answer by position, as well.

Think he will?...........no idea. I can never tell with Whiz.

Want?....................I want a PG.

 

[Purple Reign]

I think the Monarchs need the following in this order:

1. Any wing player (shooting guard/small forward) that can come off the bench get their own shot and score. We have a bunch of 2's and 3's player off the bench (Newton, Robinson, Smith, Maiga-Ba,) none of them can naturally get their own shot in the spirit of Taurasi, Pondexter, and Beard
PLAYERS THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE
DeWanna Bonner, Auburn 6'4" Guard/Forward
Shavante Zellous, Pittsburgh 5'10" Guard

2. A Backup/Future starrting point guard; preferably one that can shoot
PLAYERS THAT MAY BE AVAILABLE
Kristi Tolliver, Maryland 5'7" Guard
Renee Montgomery, UConn 5'7" Guard

3. Courtney Paris. In my opinion, she is the #1 pick, but there are some smarter than me who feel that she is not. If there is anyway she is available, she would anchor the Monarchs post for years to come.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

Until Courtney Paris can condition herself to play well in in a faster paced environment than she's spent the last 4 years in college, she is not the number 1 pick. She's also not the number one pick in terms of need for Atlanta either. Getting Houston's front court in a fire sale should set the Dream up to not need Paris. They could/should take McCoughtry and call it good and be happier than a kid in a candystore at their good fortune this offseason. Teasley, whoever, McCoughtry, Lyttle and Snow is not bad as a starting five to have fall in your lap year two of your existence.


The M's need a guard who can score and if that guard can run some point too? Win/Win. But I don't see them needing to use their first round pick on a point guard or even any pick on a point. If Maio is coming to camp as reported earlier, problem solved...so get me Zellous.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Zellous. She is stupid athletic and solidly built and can score or at least won't pass up a shot. She may no longer be there unless there is a run on point guards and posts late lottery or mid-first round.

If we take a post player, they'd have to be better than Kelly at doing what she does and how efficiently she does it. Ashley Walker could fit here if we want to continue with the undersized post theme. Ashley Paris is more intriguing to me than her twin.

A player I've always liked who may fall as Zellous rises is Briann January of Arizona State. She is a prototypical Monarch, badass defender who will crawl into somebody's jersey on defense. Her offensive game is WORLDS better than it was at any time in her collegiate career. I saw her anihilate UC Davis nearly single-handedly with seven three-pointers in December. She runs some point @ ASU as well.

Bonner is nice, and as a 6'4" all-american quality player who is listed as a guard, I'm interested...but not if Zellous is there and maybe not if January is there.

Color me surprised if the Monarchs end up with a post in the draft, my money is on them picking up a guard now that they signed Maiga-Ba.

 

[RDub21]

Ok, so if for some reason Courtney Paris falls to us, I say pick her. Is she fill our biggest need? No. I'm not exactly her biggest fan, but you can't pass her up.

I'm hoping that Auburn gets far in the tourney, I really want to see Bonner play. I keep hearing the same scouting report on her, but it'd be nice to actually see her in a game.

Marissa Coleman has always intrigued me. 6'1" wing player who can shoot (Nicole 2.0 anyone?)

Neither projected 1st round PG interests me, I'd rather take another flyer pick in the 2nd or 3rd round, just like with Aqua.

Same thing with either Ashley (Paris or Walker). Not interested unless they fall to the second round...

I think the best pick is Zellous. I saw her on TV throughout her career and once this year and she can flat out score(or as others mentioned, not afraid to shoot). She has an amazing mid-range game, can penetrate, and is freakishly athletic.

 

[Purple Reign]

Ok, so if for some reason Courtney Paris falls to us, I say pick her. Is she fill our biggest need? No. I'm not exactly her biggest fan, but you can't pass her up.

I completely agree with this. You can not pass up over 100 double doubles consecutively. I had the opportunity to meet her dad a few weeks ago, and bubba Paris is one big dude. She gets her size honestly, so in my opinion her weight is not lazy, out of shape weight. She is very bright, and once again she is a natural double double that goes after the tough rebounds. You put her in the middle and slide Brunson to her natural power forward position and I think you have a monster inside tandum.

I think it is a non-factor because she ain't sliding to #7. If Atlanta does not take her, I guarantee you that Washington, Minnesota or Indiana will or watch for Los Angeles to trade for her and she will be down in Southern California.

As far as the point guard position, unless the organization has plans to move Kara Lawson to the point guard after Ticha, i still feel this team has to find a successor. We are so used to strong point guard play; Aqua Franklin ain't nowhere near the answer in my book. If Zellous is gone and Montgomery or Tolliver is available, I say that is the direction you go.

 

[6th]

I completely agree with this. You can not pass up over 100 double doubles consecutively. I had the opportunity to meet her dad a few weeks ago, and bubba Paris is one big dude. She gets her size honestly, so in my opinion her weight is not lazy, out of shape weight. She is very bright, and once again she is a natural double double that goes after the tough rebounds. You put her in the middle and slide Brunson to her natural power forward position and I think you have a monster inside tandum.

I think it is a non-factor because she ain't sliding to #7. If Atlanta does not take her, I guarantee you that Washington, Minnesota or Indiana will or watch for Los Angeles to trade for her and she will be down in Southern California.

As far as the point guard position, unless the organization has plans to move Kara Lawson to the point guard after Ticha, i still feel this team has to find a successor. We are so used to strong point guard play; Aqua Franklin ain't nowhere near the answer in my book. If Zellous is gone and Montgomery or Tolliver is available, I say that is the direction you go.

This is my main concern. Aqua is not the answer to Ticha's replacement. I have no problem if they keep her as a back-up, but no way is she a good starting pg, especially for the Ms.

Had a nice q & a with Coach Jenny last night. They are looking at getting as many players who can play multiple positions. She even mentioned working with Nicole as an occasional pg (a position she played some at Stanford). My guess is that they will pick up a guard, particularly someone who can play positions 1 thru 3. This is apparently all in response to the league cutting teams to 11 players and having plenty of flexibility in case of injury.

 

[RDub21]

I think it is a non-factor because she ain't sliding to #7. If Atlanta does not take her, I guarantee you that Washington, Minnesota or Indiana will or watch for Los Angeles to trade for her and she will be down in Southern California.

Absolutely, there's no way we actually have a chance at her unless we trade up.

Had a nice q & a with Coach Jenny last night. They are looking at getting as many players who can play multiple positions. She even mentioned working with Nicole as an occasional pg (a position she played some at Stanford).

That's interesting. Of course all the hype of Nicole playing all 5 positions have come and gone, I think playing her at point for limited minutes (5 to 10) definitely gives us a different look on offense.

I really think that paving the way for Kara as our point guard for the future is the way the Monarchs should go. She is a natural leader, has great BBall IQ and has championship experience. I'd rather see a Kara and Chelsea/Scho/Miao/Allen backcourt in the future, than a Aqua/filler PG and Kara backcourt.

 

[Luv13fan]

That's interesting. Of course all the hype of Nicole playing all 5 positions have come and gone, I think playing her at point for limited minutes (5 to 10) definitely gives us a different look on offense.

She has enough excuses why she isn't shooting the ball and scoring the way someone with her "Talent" should be. Aka. the defense is very demanding etc... She has had to spend more time in the post over the last few years. More than we wanted. Now Jenny wants to add Point guard duties to that list.

No No and No.
She can't play all 5 positions. She really couldn't at Stanford. She was their best Ball handler, hardly a Point guard.
Nicole needs to Stay where she is at the 3. And Develop her skills there.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[6th]

She has enough excuses why she isn't shooting the ball and scoring the way someone with her "Talent" should be. Aka. the defense is very demanding etc... She has had to spend more time in the post over the last few years. More than we wanted. Now Jenny wants to add Point guard duties to that list.

No No and No.
She can't play all 5 positions. She really couldn't at Stanford. She was their best Ball handler, hardly a Point guard.
Nicole needs to Stay where she is at the 3. And Develop her skills there.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, that may very well be where she needs to Stay, but because of the drop to 11 players, Jenny wants to have more flexibility in case of injury. She said she expects that Nicole will be able to play the 1 thru the 4, if the health situation of the team warrants it. She is not expected to play at Center, but who knows?

 

[6th]

BTW - when talking about the drop from 13 to 11 players, Jenny expressed more concern for the players who will find themselves out of jobs, especially when you consider almost every team will add at least one player to their roster from the draft.

 

[Luv13fan]

That's Jenny for ya

BTW - when talking about the drop from 13 to 11 players, Jenny expressed more concern for the players who will find themselves out of jobs, especially when you consider almost every team will add at least one player to their roster from the draft.

Well Jenny wouldn't be Jenny if she didn't have that concern. It is what makes her the type of Coach that players get behind.

However; there are alot of people who have lost and are Losing their jobs. Thru no fault of their own. And they don't have the option of getting paid to go over to Europe to improve their skills.

I hate to be cold-Hearted about this but... The average athlete loses their job because a) someone came along that was better qualified or b) they were never qualified to hold the spot to begin with. Something I think we all seem to forget at times.

It has been advocated that the players don't owe us anything more than their best effort on the court. I have always felt that they should do a little more because we are still growing the league. But I understand that now.
Well if that is true then conversely we (Fans & Management alike) OWE them nothing more than the opportunity to compete for a job. But not just season to season...
Week to week...
However we seem far more forgiving of them when they Fall into a funk, or are developing slower than our needs require. We are just expected to be loyal. Now I am not talking about win vs. loses I am talking about performing vs. not performing.

Perhaps the drop from 13 to 11 players could be the best thing the league has done. IMO quite a few players league wide have been taking their job for granted. I think some will be in for a rude awakening when a bigger, stronger, younger and cheaper player comes in and makes off with their jobs.

It is unfortunately that some fringe players may not get the opportunity to develop in a WNBA system. But I am hoping the added competition will truly lead to a better product on the floor. Players will have to work harder in camp to make rosters. But the big thing I see is more solid players being available on waiver wires. Which means that players will have to keep on working and improving if they want to keep their jobs throughout the season?

For some reason I see that as nothing but a plus for the League.

 

[Purple Reign]

Shavonte Zellous

It is starting to look like this may be "the player" us Monarch fans have been searching for for a number of years. Our own Alana Beard, our own Cappie Pondexter. I will be paying close attention to the Pitt Panthers in the tournament to see her. According to wnbadraftnet.tripod.com the 2009 draft should go in this order.

1. Atlanta - Angel McCoughtry, SMALL FORWARD, "The Lou"
2. Washington - Courtney Paris, CENTER, OU
3. Chicago - DeWanna Bonner, POWER FORWARD, Auburn
4. Minnesota - Ashley Paris, POWER FORWARD, OU
5. Phoenix - Kristi Tolliver, POINT GUARD, Maryland
6. Indiana - Renee Montgomery, POINT GUARD, UConn
7. Sacramento - Shavonte Zellous, SHOOTING GUARD, Pittsburgh

NOTESI think picks #1-3 should go as projected. It is at the Minnesota slot where things get interesting. Minnesota has made a number of changes in the off season adding LaToya Pringle, Cristi Thomas, LaToya Thomas, Roneeka Hodges and the key Kelly Miller. You throw in Anosike, Augustus, Wiggins, DeForge, Houston and Quinn and on paper the Minnesota Lynx are a very, very young and VERY VERY TALENTED. SCARY TALENTED!!!! Minnesota at #4 is in the prime position to take the most talented player available because again on paper, they have no needs. Is Ashley Paris the most talented player available.

I believe that Phoenix would select Montgomery over Tolliver just because she is a better defender, her UConn roots and she is a better pure point guard, where Tolliver is Pondexter Lite.

That means that Zellous more than likely will be there for the taking. Here are some things I have found out about her FROM A 2/8/09 PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE REVIEW ARTICLE. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/mtpleasant/s_610757.html

But all that only makes it seem that much sweeter that the 5-foot-10 senior guard is who she is today — the leading scorer in the Big East, third-leading scorer in the nation and the strong leader of a No. 22 Pitt team that went to the Sweet Sixteen last year, with a career in the WNBA ahead of her. "It feels good because there was so much stuff I needed to know," said Zellous, who is averaging 24 points and 5.5 rebounds per game. "Coming from high school, I didn't even know the basic fundamentals."She knows now.

Zellous' track speed and long-jumping skills help her lift herself above virtually everyone else on the court. It's almost as if she has her own personal trampoline under her feet everywhere she goes, whether it's pulling up for a jumper or soaring for a rebound.

"My freshman year was rough, getting kicked out of classes like I was still in high school, about to get sent back to Florida," she said. "I got a reality check real quick. I was like, let me get myself together. This is not high school.
"If I go home, I'm not going to be doing anything with myself, probably getting into some type of trouble, hanging with the wrong crowd. That was basically the turning point, realizing what I was going to lose and what I could gain by being here."
Back on track, Zellous was named the Big East Most Improved Player her sophomore season and earned a spot on the All-Big East First team, an honor she received again last year.
With Marcedes Walker gone, she is now the team's intense and nurturing leader.

Those who have seen her play, tell us more.

 

[creative one]

I think the Monarchs will choose the best player near six feet tall they can pick, which means they're looking at a 2 or 2/3 who can also handle the ball in the open court. That leaves the door open for Zellous, Coleman (who won't be available because she's the likely ACC Player of the Year), Bonner (SEC POY, probably not available), and Littles.

I see them carrying another true PG on the roster after Ticha (hopefully not Aqua because she didn't show much last year and isn't even playing overseas now after being cut), but this player probably won't be Ticha's primary back-up. That job would likely go to Kara again. For that reason, I don't see the Monarchs taking Montgomery or Toliver (they're not true PGs anyway, and neither would even come close to replacing Ticha in terms of bball IQ, defense, court vision, and "quarterback" mentality). As was mentioned earlier, this position could be filled either in the second round (unlikely) or in training camp (most likely). You don't use your single digit 1st round pick on a player you intend to be an "emergency" player because you aren't really going to develop her. And with Minnesota, Phoenix, and Indiana looking at young PGs to possibly develop, we probably won't get a chance to pick a PG whose stock is legitimately 1st round. Regardless of what you hear, Briann January is NOT a first-round PG. Cirone and Lehning (whose stock is sliding fast) aren't WNBA PGs.

The second round pick is likely to be a post. Of course you take Courtney at #7 if she's still there, but that won't happen so don't hold your breath. There could be some intriguing names left on the board (Wisdom-Hylton, Mohammed, and even Black or Vaughn) at #20, so Kelly will have some solid competition in camp (and she should, as no roster spots outside of our likely starters and maybe Harper should be considered locks at this point). The third round pick will likely be an international player who may never show up.

All that said, I can't see any team in the WNBA trying to "build for the future". What future is promised for this league? We might not have a league in a couple of years, as some NBA owners (like Robert Sarver of Phoenix and the group in Indiana) are already looking for creative ways to claim that their WNBA teams are financial albatrosses. You build to win NOW, which is why teams in "win now" mode don't take a chance on a player who has to develop (PGs, true centers). Sure, fans love "youth", but "youth" doesn't always lead to prosperity. Most highly regarded WNBA prospects NEVER develop.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

I've seen her once in person but mostly what I've seen of her is on TV. I wouldn't compare her to Beard or Pondexter, I just don't see her as a combo guard. I'd compare her to Lennox and Nolan.


Where I saw her in person, a Sweet 16 game against Stanford's size and defense, she lit them up for 20+, nobody else from Pitt was scoring which is why Stanford rolled them. She can get to the basket, she's got the middie game and a shot from the perimeter. As I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, Zellous is STUPID athletic with a Nolan-like ability to levitate to get a shot up over a defender. I'm not sure she falls tho. WNBAdraftnet doesn't have Ashley Walker in this mix and I think she slots somewhere in the top 6 as should Marissa Coleman. I'm also not convinced Minny uses that pick, let alone using it on a post.

I have some more stuff on Zellous but I'm not at home so I may post it later tonight.

 

[creative one]

It is starting to look like this may be "the player" us Monarch fans have been searching for for a number of years. Our own Alana Beard, our own Cappie Pondexter. I will be paying close attention to the Pitt Panthers in the tournament to see her. According to wnbadraftnet.tripod.com the 2009 draft should go in this order.

1. Atlanta - Angel McCoughtry, SMALL FORWARD, "The Lou"
2. Washington - Courtney Paris, CENTER, OU
3. Chicago - DeWanna Bonner, POWER FORWARD, Auburn
4. Minnesota - Ashley Paris, POWER FORWARD, OU
5. Phoenix - Kristi Tolliver, POINT GUARD, Maryland
6. Indiana - Renee Montgomery, POINT GUARD, UConn
7. Sacramento - Shavonte Zellous, SHOOTING GUARD, Pittsburgh

NOTESI think picks #1-3 should go as projected. It is at the Minnesota slot where things get interesting. Minnesota has made a number of changes in the off season adding LaToya Pringle, Cristi Thomas, LaToya Thomas, Roneeka Hodges and the key Kelly Miller. You throw in Anosike, Augustus, Wiggins, DeForge, Houston and Quinn and on paper the Minnesota Lynx are a very, very young and VERY VERY TALENTED. SCARY TALENTED!!!! Minnesota at #4 is in the prime position to take the most talented player available because again on paper, they have no needs. Is Ashley Paris the most talented player available.

I believe that Phoenix would select Montgomery over Tolliver just because she is a better defender, her UConn roots and she is a better pure point guard, where Tolliver is Pondexter Lite.

That means that Zellous more than likely will be there for the taking. Here are some things I have found out about her FROM A 2/8/09 PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE REVIEW ARTICLE. http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/dailycourier/news/mtpleasant/s_610757.html










Those who have seen her play, tell us more.

That's an outdated mock draft. Coleman's stock has propelled her into the Top 5, possibly Top 3.

I'd say Zellous is closer to Deanna Nolan (same body type and leaping ability) than Pondexter and Beard, the latter two being better slashers and playmakers. She gets really good elevation on her jump shot and is probably the most pro-ready guard (point or shooting) in her class.

I've heard rumors that Minnesota covets Toliver, which is why they weren't reluctant to giving up Harding (who was their starter late in the year but was a major disappointment on the court and in the locker room--did not mesh well with Wiggins or Augustus and didn't try). What's funny is that Toliver, like Harding, is aloof when it comes to her teammates and is even more of a "shoot-first" type than Harding. I'm not seeing why they would want another ball-dominant PG (after dumping the one they were excited about just two years ago) who will also try to take shots from Augustus and Wiggins. Makes no sense to me. It's as though Minnesota WANTS to have chemistry problems. Either that, or Zierden really wants to get fired.

Phoenix will probably have to choose between Zellous and Montgomery, and I'm not sure if they'll bite on Montgomery. She's a better PG than Toliver and a much better defender, but she's really small and doesn't have much upside due to lack of size and fundamentals (can't handle or finish with her left hand, which is a MUST for WNBA success). Furthermore, her shot selection is AWFUL. Phoenix has an interesting array of perimeter players, so they might take her if her team continues to have success.

 

[RDub21]

The second round pick is likely to be a post. Of course you take Courtney at #7 if she's still there, but that won't happen so don't hold your breath. There could be some intriguing names left on the board (Wisdom-Hylton, Mohammed, and even Black or Vaughn) at #20, so Kelly will have some solid competition in camp (and she should, as no roster spots outside of our likely starters and maybe Harper should be considered locks at this point). The third round pick will likely be an international player who may never show up.

I remember coveting Kia Vaughn all throughout the past 3 years and envisioning her in a Monarchs uni. Now, it's kinda sad she's fallen WAY off the radar. If she's available @ 20, I'd like to take that chance on her. Wisdom-Hylton or Mohammed would be a nice pick also, could be solid bench posts. Chante Black....yikes. Watching her on TV, I just can see WNBA posts completely overwhelming her.

A name I'll throw out there is Abby Waner in the second round. Maybe a combo guard like an Erin Thorn type player? Just handle the ball, don't turn it over, and shoot when open...any opinions on her?

 

[creative one]

I remember coveting Kia Vaughn all throughout the past 3 years and envisioning her in a Monarchs uni. Now, it's kinda sad she's fallen WAY off the radar. If she's available @ 20, I'd like to take that chance on her. Wisdom-Hylton or Mohammed would be a nice pick also, could be solid bench posts. Chante Black....yikes. Watching her on TV, I just can see WNBA posts completely overwhelming her.

I agree for the most part. Someone will take a chance on Vaughn, but they shouldn't expect any long-term benefits. She's basically a 6-4 power build who can play a little defense. A complete PROJECT.

I like Wisdom-Hylton's ability to defend many positions and Mohammed's strength. Both seem like quality back-up types. However, both have suffered serious injury before. Mohammed is almost three years removed from her injury. Wisdom-Hylton is about two years removed from hers. Still....worth serious consideration at the #20 pick (if they both make it past San Antonio at #14).

I don't want any part of Black. She's Sandora Irvin v. 2.0. If she didn't attend Duke, no one would know who she is.

A name I'll throw out there is Abby Waner in the second round. Maybe a combo guard like an Erin Thorn type player? Just handle the ball, don't turn it over, and shoot when open...any opinions on her?

DO NOT WANT. Good kid, very good defender, but a natural shooting guard who shoots 33% from the field and 28% from three IN COLLEGE should not be strongly considered for a WNBA roster spot. She's nothing like Erin Thorn--not in terms of leadership, basketball IQ, or offensive ability.

As for moving her over to the point, well, no. 97 assists, 94 turnovers in a league where guard play is as weak as it's been since 2003. I'd rather bring in a FA PG who actually plays the point.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

Ditto for me on Vaughn...when I saw her in the bay area earlier this season she looked like she was ready to bring it for her final hurrah in Piscataway, but she's fallen off the radar screen. I haven't seen a Rutgers game in a while (not sure how I managed that, they're on every damn day seems like) and when I last did, Vaughn had lost her starting job. Not a good thing to do to raise your draft stock.

Double, no, triple ditto for me on Waner. Her sister was supposed to be that and a bag of chips and I never bought it, then they tried to sell me that she was the better Waner and I have yet to see why, she has been non-descript this season generally and in games where I have seen her - nondescript would be a step up as an assessment.

QUADRUPLE DITTO for me on Chante Black, never liked her game at all and still dont.


We only have one slot for somebody currently playing in college or otherwise eligible for the draft, so whoever we draft in later rounds is just getting a free souvenir jersey.


I'm not looking at January as a pg, I'm looking at her as somebody who could bring the ball up court and who could play 2g in the scheme here. She is Newton 4.0, but she's not who is highest on my list of players to draft tho.


Back to a comment from yesterday. I wasn't saying Courtney Paris is lazy or couch potato fat. She is not conditioned well to run the floor for 40 minutes. To me there's a difference. If you can watch her game and see her being as successful - i.e. 100+ double-doubles in a row against higher caliber post players at this level and somehow developing a better ability to run the floor in a much faster game at this levle - you see more than I do and that's fine. I don't see it from her right now and can't project her getting that ability overnight. If there can even be talk that there's a possibility she could fall out of the lottery pick range to the Monarchs, I can't be alone in that view. She should be the no-brainer #1 overall pick given her numbers and I just don't think there is that consensus about her.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

Oh, one more thing while before it flies out of my head for the night. About the reduction of roster size being good for the league. I'm not on that train...if their reason for doing it was for anything other than evening up competitive advantage because other teams can't afford to do it, I might go along with it being a good thing. Teams that could afford to do it and who had been doing it for a while with some purpose in mind have lost something for the sake of teams that couldn't or didn't care to. (cough..sacramentdetroit..cough)

I haven't heard how it will work if a team has somebody go down to an injury which will require them to miss more than a game or two but isn't severe enough to cost them a season (cough...brunson'sstressreactionlastseason...cough) Will they have to cut that player or play with 10? What if you have two players out for an extended period of time?

I agree that it will create a better active 11, but it just seems to me that it's also playing a game of russian roulette not allowing for injuries. I'd rather have seen them go back to having a slot or two for players and those players must actually be injured (and not come down with "migraines or the "back spasms" that everybody used to get here in Sacramento and Detroit) instead of the inactive list that let teams just rotate who they dressed from time to time.

 

[creative one]

See, I disagree. I think we have enough players on our roster with non-guaranteed contracts to justify adding more draft picks/FAs to the team if the situation dictates (if we actually get some young players who can contribute right away). Players like Newton (oft-injured), Robinson (oft-injured and underperformed in Europe), Smith (no explanation necessary), Franklin (disastrous European attempt), Kelly (underperforming in Europe), Harper (highly unlikely unless injured; having monster season in Europe), and Allen (having a so-so season at best in Europe) can be cut at any point between the start of training camp and the middle of the 2009 season without us having to pay a full salary. With the reduced roster spots, teams will not only be able to shed the "junk" off the end of the bench, they'll also have the freedom to strengthen their rotation cores (i.e. add quality depth beyond the first five or six guaranteed contracts). This roster reduction move is not designed for teams that want to keep its rotation from last season and then try to add a player or two to the back end. Under that strategy, a team will be setting itself up for failure, as the league is not the same from year to year. Teams that relied heavily on non-Wiggins, non-Parker, and non-Fowles rookies last year might want to take it easy this season because several of those players aren't developing overseas like they should be, and having too many of those types on the roster could derail a team. Also, this isn't the season to be taking multiple flyers on players with zero pro experience.

The point I'm trying to make is that teams really need to treat this year's training camp session like a true audition rather than a continuation from last season (beyond the guaranteed deals, of course) or else this roster reduction plan won't work. If your team didn't win the championship last year, that should be enough incentive to make changes. Even Bill is looking to make changes to his championship team.

 

[Luv13fan]

Decisions...

Well looking at the dot.com The Monarchs have 15 players on the roster and that doesn't include Maio. Although it does include Camino. I am not sure either one is coming, but Maio seems to be a surer thing than Camino.

Jenny B basically said she is expecting to have to cut 4 players from last years team because of the roster reduction. All the competition seems to be on the wing. But I would be intrigued to see if a 2nd round rookie post could challenge Kelly. She is very wiley to say the least.

We'll see how the player roster works out. Hopefully coaches league wide will utilize their benchs more effectively so players can avoid some of the injuries. I know some injuries are just unavoidable, but maybe some of the fatigue related injuries will be reduced.

Or maybe I have alot fo wishful thinking going on.

 

[uncommonclay]

11 player roster ...

i dont like that number ... it seems too small, too small to scrimmage 5 on 5 ... players always get hurt ... it seems too skimpy for good practicing ...

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

I don't think there is a way to reduce the fatigue related injuries with the way the W schedule is constructed. I also think how coaches use players won't necessarily change unless they also change their underlying system. Having said that, it might not suck to be Sue Bird anymore if Peewee is able to stay healthy and give quality minutes.

My problem isn't with the reduction itself, I may not have made that clear in my previous post. My problem is the short-sightedness of not having an injured list. If I build a dream roster and I have two players go down, I'm screwed now because I'd have to dump presumably one or two players to clear space to replace them or, if not them per se, their production by bringing in new pieces while those two don't dress. That to me is stupid. I would have been fine with them dumping the inactive designation and forcing teams to break camp with the best 11 they can and not carrying inexpensive "break glass in case of emergency" people as a stop gap. Teams should have the $$ to carry injured players or they need to get out of the league. That's what my objection (which may actually be a serious concern in nicer words) is.

Boucek saying she's going to have to cut 4 from the roster last year was what we already figured wasn't it? I think we already even know which ones it is likely to be and have an idea of how many spots they have for another/other body(ies).

Boucek also doesn't seem to be putting much stock in the numbers her players are putting up overseas, at least not the ones she visited in Turkey.

 

[Luv13fan]

true...

Can't say I disagree with anything you Post MBF. And No doubt we were all aware of what we thought would be the casualties. But it is a bit different when the Coach Goes on record and Says it.

OTOH it wil be interesting who makes the best case for themselves in camp. The clear free for all will be at the 2 guard. Not so much in the post. I have been all about competition in camp, it looks like we will get some this year.

 

[creative one]

Boucek also doesn't seem to be putting much stock in the numbers her players are putting up overseas, at least not the ones she visited in Turkey.

She's full of it.

One of said players is a Euroleague All-Star (an honor that some veterans have a hard time getting), and she's not putting much stock into that? So I guess it means NOTHING if the kid comes back over here and actually plays with confidence for the first time since high school.

Now, I don't really care what Powell and Penicheiro (who's in Italy anyway) are doing since both have guaranteed roster spots. I also don't care much about how Aqua bombed in Sweden and Israel or about Robinson's inability to hit a shot from outside the paint leading to her getting the axe in Italy since neither seems worthy of a roster spot in 2009 anyway (easy cuts). I do care that Allen, a player that most here (myself excluded) think can compete for a roster spot (why...I have no idea), and Kelly, a previously discarded player from Houston, aren't exactly making their cases for being with this team in 2009. That's why I want those two positions, in addition to emergency PG, to be up for grabs. Seems like Zellous can fill what some feel should be Allen's slot. Hopefully our second-rounder or some young player (on a rookie scale contract, please) can compete for the post slot.

To address MBF's concerns:

I think it's utter crap that they're forcing teams to go with 11 players only. Not only is it a danger health-wise, it also takes away from practice intensity. Rather than have their teams go all out during practice in an effort to get the best out of their players, coaches will be forced to run halfhearted walk-through sessions in an effort to reduce fatigue and injury. IMO, that will lead to a lower quality of product on the floor (since players, like Tamika Catchings, will feel compelled to dial it back to reduce the risk of injury) than we're already used to seeing. If you dreaded those 50-45 type games, get ready to see an entire summer of Fever-like final scores! The worst thing about this move is that it won't protect against players who sustain serious injury. Like you pointed out, if two of your best rotation players become injured and are out for the season, you are screwed.

Bottom line: the WNBA has placed cost reduction above the safety and well-being of its employees, and the league will suffer mightily for making such a move. I feel sorry for all the girls who will get seriously injured this summer and then tossed to the side by teams that can't afford to keep them on board. What a shame. The NBPA and NFLPA would NEVER allow something like this to happen. If this league aspires to be a major league, it's got to start treating its employees like major league players (of course, the players still have to do their part by actually playing better night in and night out).

 

[creative one]

It's just one game, but Kia Vaughn is looking rather studly against UConn and its All-American frontline. She's doing everything except rebounding. If we didn't already have two post projects on our team, she might be worth a gamble in the mid-teens/#20. That said, this is probably a Senior Night performance that may not be replicated at any other point from here on out.

On the flip side, I don't care what Renee Montgomery's numbers say. She's a short shooting guard who can't handle college pressure (not just observation from this game, either). I'm still not sure what's the big deal with this rail-thin short kid if all she does is hoist threes and can't handle college ball pressure. What, then, is she going to do in the pros with an 8-sec backcourt rule facing her? IMO, she's a glorified spot-up 3-point shooter. If we pick her, we'll have our very own version of Shannon Bobbitt. DO NOT WANT!

Despite their poor showings tonight, I would still pick Maya Moore and Tina Charles twice each over every player in this draft. I don't think people understand just how poor this draft is going to be. If this league is still around in five years, we'll all agree that this draft is worse than 2007.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

I'm not buying Vaughn's game tonight until she follows it up with a consistent string of games like this. What I sorta do like about her, which I kinda think is missing as long as DeMya has been out is the nastiness Vaughn has. When she was in the bay area she single elbowedly took out technically three players (she clipped Ogwumike twice so I only count her once). I don't like dirty players, but having a "physical presence" in the paint might not suck.

But Vaughn should be doing this every night with the body and skills she has. I hate watching players and having to guess whether they want to show up.

 

[creative one]

I agree, MBF. Outside of Charles, the Big East has substandard posts.

 

[samq]

Despite their poor showings tonight, I would still pick Maya Moore and Tina Charles twice each over every player in this draft. I don't think people understand just how poor this draft is going to be. If this league is still around in five years, we'll all agree that this draft is worse than 2007.

You don't think Courtney or Angel will be better than Harding, Little, Jackson, who else is decent in the 07 draft? Oh yeah, theres Gruda (who I think can develop into something special).

Either way, I don't Zelleous or anyone will solve our problems. We need a true all-star/superstar to compete in this league.