Beno and Brad - Got to go

[PoundForPound]

I know we just signed beno. But for just once we have to stop looking at numbers and do what's best for this team and its future. It's become increasingly clear that Udrih was only playing for a contract last year. So many turnovers and sloppy PG play. And Brad, well, nothing more really needs to be said. The guy is done. Good career, but he's come to point where he's hurting the team more than helping. He is a huge liability on defense and rebounding.

What do you guys think?

 

[Kingsroots]

Agree 100%

 

[Showtime]

I know we just signed beno. But for just once we have to stop looking at numbers and do what's best for this team and its future. It's become increasingly clear that Udrih was only playing for a contract last year. So many turnovers and sloppy PG play. And Brad, well, nothing more really needs to be said. The guy is done. Good career, but he's come to point where he's hurting the team more than helping. He is a huge liability on defense and rebounding.

What do you guys think?

I totally disagree with your assessment of Beno. I don't think he played for a contract last year and that explains his recent struggles. He's always had a problem with turning the ball over and I think it's too soon to give up on him. I think he needs more structure in the offense so he doesn't try so hard to make things happen and force things in the offense which creates turnovers. Remember, Garcia was doing the same thing where he was forcing the issue too much and getting charges left and right. I think Beno needs some time to gel in a more structured system and quite frankly I think the lack of options he has is a problem.

I don't like this offense at all. The ball needs to be fed inside-out from Hawes IMO ala Duncan. He doesn't have to take every shot, but he should at least touch the ball because he can make thing happen and draw the doubles on the block. The more I see Hawes at PF on the perimeter and NOT developing that part of his game makes me cringe because the Kings have waited a long time for a low post player and finally have one and are wasting him trying to make him into Brad Miller vol 2 as a high post passer/jumpshooter.

 

[gunks]

Well you know...Petrie likes them passing/jump shooting bigs.

 

[KingsCitizen]

For non-stud point guards like Beno, most are often dependent on how the coach designs the offense. And I think that's the real problem. If you look at the well structured offense of veteran coaches, most of the PGs settles when the offense is already well understood by all.

I think at this point in time the team does not really have a good understanding of what type of offense they will play. So Beno has racked up a lot of TOs since execution often starts with him. Theus' plan was to run-and-run last season and then planned to play Triangle this season. With a good number of young guys and several veterans who I think is not totally in sync with the teams system, things like these are expected.

Everyone seemed lost or don't know where to go on all those games that were lost by a mile. This team is still young and will still need to learn a lot or the coach must implement a good system easily understood and implemented by every player.

But I did hate Beno on the floor tonight. He almost single-handedly gave the points to Portland. If our point guard is messed up, some other players need to knock on his head and wake him up.

I think we need to put in each player the fire to demand their right to the ball when their open. A lot of things are forced tonight.

And if I was one of the players in this game, Beno will hear a lot from me.

And the lighter side, Shelden showed some consistent offense on the late game with his jumpers. I think 9 pts on 4 consecutive positions. I'll vote him to replace Moore as the fourth big off the bench along with Thompson for next game.

 

[BMiller52]

Should've traded for a young PG instead of re-signing Beno...

 

[PoundForPound]

I understand what you guys are saying even though I don't agree with it.

True, it's on the coach to determine what kind of offense this team is going to play, but a lot of Beno's mistakes are just bad judgment on his own behalf.

Why dribble between multiple defenders? Most likely, they're going to take the ball from you.

Why penetrate into traffic only to throw an intercepted pass intended to go back out to the wings?

Those are situations where a decision he makes with the ball ends up costing us a possession. Our offense was running very smoothly in the first quarter, before Beno had a string of back to back turnovers. I've also noticed that Beno does not have much chemistry with the other players on the team, which leads to a lot of miscues and bad passes (not all of them being his fault). As a PG, he's got to do a better job with adjusting, no matter what sort of offense he is being told to run. We all saw him last year, playing within the tempo, being selective about his shot attempts, and keeping his assist:ratio turnover reasonable. Stop cutting the guy so much slack.

 

[Gary]

I am with you.. Trade Beno asap.. As for Brad.. Meh.. Give us a fcouple picks for him and I am all for it.

 

[bajaden]

Look, Beno was terrible tonight, and he's been inconsistant all season. I've been cutting him some slack because of the different lineups he's had to deal with. Now with a new coaching change, and probably a simplication of the offense, I'll have to give him more slack.

However, some of the things he's doing are inexcusable, and I'm not sure how much his teammates trust him. To be honest, were too much of a perimiter orientated team. Hopefully Natt will make adjustments. Well see!

 

[Kings Faithful]

Well, i like Beno but heres my main problem. He was good for us last year because he was CONSISTENT. He wasn't an awesome point guard like Chris Paul...but the guy got his 12-15 points and 3-5 assists every single night just about. This season, not so much. Nowadays he's turning the ball over more than he is assisting and the guy just plain can't shoot like he did last year for completely unsolvable reasons. If he can get his act together im fine with keeping him, but if he's going to continue to have 4 point 4 turnover 2 assist games with a good game every 3 or 4 then I can't say he's good for our team right now.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

contract yr player. we keep paying all this scratch for MLE guys. i'm puzzled by it. reminds me of the time when the t wolves were tossing out MLE money yr after yr.

 

[bajaden]

I think that if there had been a better free agent option on the market at the time Beno was signed, Petrie would have gone in a different direction. He was probably the best buy at the moment. Its too bad we didn't make a bigger effort to retain Ronnie Price, but thats water under the bridge.

I don't think Beno's contract affects the future plans of the team. Depending on what the brain trust does, we'll have cap space either at the end of this year or the next. If Beno doesn't work out, he can move to the backup position when we aquire someone better. Or there's always some idiot GM looking for a pt guard, making him a movable peice.

 

[Kingster]

Beno doesn't have the athleticism that you want from a point guard, and never will. He's overmatched. Maybe he has a good game here and there, but over the long grind of the season he's going to prove that he can't keep up with good NBA point guards. He's probably going to have to be traded when we get a good point guard because he's not effective coming off the bench. A more mature Hawes and Thompson + Very Good Point Guard = Lots of Wins.

 

[Jespher]

I really feel that the Kings will draft their starting PG this year, and Beno will be moved to the back-up spot. He'd be a great energy guy off the bench when Bobby Jackson expires, and he'd be a great leader for the second unit. The only way we'll improve the PG situation is through the draft, as there's just no teams trading the few elite points guards.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Yeah, there's no urgency to move Beno now. With his contract and production right now, he's nearly untradable anyway. Unless we get a major upgrade at PG by trading another player, I'm fine waiting it out with Beno for the next year or two while we draft his successor in June.

Brad, however, is another story entirely...

 

[nbrans]

Beno's numbers are basically identical to what they were last year. Slight uptick in turnovers, but also an uptick in assists. His PER is slightly better.

I haven't been able to watch many games this year, so I'm wondering -- has he really been different? Or have the expectations changed? Just curious.

 

[hrdboild]

Brad's name may still carry some weight in the league. And in the right system he might still be productive too. It's at least less of a risk for other teams knowing that his contract is up in 2010. I don't think we have to move him though. Especially not if that would mean taking back more unnecessary salaries.

The Beno thing, that was a terrible signing to begin with unless you thought he was a guaranteed starter for the next 5 years. They gave him a player option for almost 8 million dollars for 2012 for crying out loud. That's crazy money for a backup PG. They should have just bit the bullet and let him walk. Trading him is unlikely. Probably this turns into another Kenny Thomas situation in a few years and this time there's no freak injuries to blame.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Beno IS NOT a major problem for the Kings. At minimum he's a good stop gap solution and at best a steady floor general where there was none before he arrived. After the injured Bibby was traded Kings had ZERO point guards on their roster until arrival of Udrih - remember Orien Green? Giving Beno MLE was necessary as there were no other decent options around at his position - just as there were none around to speak of when he was luckily snatched up off waivers. Beno can improve and should improve or he will be traded since PG is like C - a very difficult but critical position to fill with NBA quality. I disagree that he could not be a valuable player backing up a top play making PG. That's what he was in San Antonio behind Tony Parker. Coach Pop liked him in that role with his only apparent complaint that Beno was something of a party boy (now changed) and was somewhat injury prone (not apparent with Kings so far). Beno stays! Brad goes! That's my KINGS LOUD SHOUT OUT!

 

[Heuge]

Beno signing is looking more and more like a Jerome James signing everyday.

 

[NME]

Beno signing is looking more and more like a Jerome James signing everyday.

Right, he's really comparable to a guy who's averaged 2 points a game for four years.

The definition of a "Jerome James signing" is a player not continuing the production that earned a contract once that contract is signed, which in Jerome's case was off a fleeting playoff performance. Beno got his contract for his performance as a starter last year, to which his production this year is remarkably identical, making your comparison nonsensical.

 

[JoMama]

Beno has been a major disappointment. He gets beaten regularly, can't shoot the 3 and is a turnover waiting to happen. He's too slow for today's starting PG positition. He's a backup PG on other teams. I wouldn't be sad to see him traded.

 

[fnordius]

Beno's numbers are basically identical to what they were last year. Slight uptick in turnovers, but also an uptick in assists. His PER is slightly better.

I haven't been able to watch many games this year, so I'm wondering -- has he really been different? Or have the expectations changed? Just curious.

I was looking at his stats the other day and thinking exactly the same thing. I didn't like the size and length of his contract from the beginning, for just this reason.

We were desperate at the time, and had seen how horribly the team played with Salmons, Cisco or Douby pretending to be PGs. Geoff stumbles across a FA who will play for peanuts, and we're all overawed at what a great deal we got. But now he's not a great deal.

This is where we wake up, horribly hung over, in a Vegas hotel room, to discover that last night we married someone who we just met. And signed a prenuptual agreement promising them $27,000,000.

 

[hrdboild]

This is where we wake up, horribly hung over, in a Vegas hotel room, to discover that last night we married someone who we just met. And signed a prenuptual agreement promising them $27,000,000.

Nicely put.

 

[Jer]

Beno's numbers are basically identical to what they were last year. Slight uptick in turnovers, but also an uptick in assists. His PER is slightly better.

I haven't been able to watch many games this year, so I'm wondering -- has he really been different? Or have the expectations changed? Just curious.

He hasn't gotten any worse or any better. He is what he is; a scoring PG ideally suited for a role off the bench for a scoring punch and to keep the offense flowing.

I almost get a sense of overconfidence when I see Beno play. When he makes a bad, unforced decision (throwing the ball to someone on the opposite team, not considering his next move, jumping into the air and not knowing who he'll pass to, etc), more often than not he'll stare at the ref or yell at a teammate. This is one of the reasons I don't have a lot of confidence in him developing as a player; if you're not willing to learn from your mistakes, you won't progress.

Jason, as an example, makes many mistakes but never blames anyone but himself for them; you can see his passion during games when he messes up and screams at himself for missing a shot, or letting a rebound slip out of his hands. I have a lot more confidence in him being willing to work hard to correct his mistakes, as taking responsibility for your own play is the right kind of attitude to have.

 

[Heuge]

Right, he's really comparable to a guy who's averaged 2 points a game for four years.

The definition of a "Jerome James signing" is a player not continuing the production that earned a contract once that contract is signed, which in Jerome's case was off a fleeting playoff performance. Beno got his contract for his performance as a starter last year, to which his production this year is remarkably identical, making your comparison nonsensical.

Heh, hardly nonsensical. Beno is playing himself out of a job. He almost single handly shifted the momentum of the game last night even.

How he is similar. Didnt do much before contract. Showed signs of being good but was largely unproven. He signed and is vastly under performing.

Nonsensical comparison, not at all really. Comparison will never be identical, hence the need to compare.

 

[NME]

How he is similar. Didnt do much before contract. Showed signs of being good but was largely unproven. He signed and is vastly under performing.

You're no closer to a logical comparison.

Jerome could have reasonably earned his league-average contract by putting up 7 and 5 off the bench as a part of an 8-9 man rotation, but instead has put up 2 and 2 and has never averaged double digit-minutes for the Knicks. That is vastly underperforming.

Beno's "signs of being good" were his numbers as a starter. He has essentially matched that production, meaning he is performing close to par, if not up to people's hopes and wishes. If Jerome could ever come close to matching the period of production that got him his contract, the Knicks would be ecstatic. Beno's contract is not that of an elite starting PG. He is a fringe-starter/core rotation player, and that is how he is paid with his league-average contract.

Pointing out why you don't like Beno does not create a correlation to Jerome.

 

[Heuge]

You're no closer to a logical comparison.

Jerome could have reasonably earned his league-average contract by putting up 7 and 5 off the bench as a part of an 8-9 man rotation, but instead has put up 2 and 2 and has never averaged double digit-minutes for the Knicks. That is vastly underperforming.

Beno's "signs of being good" were his numbers as a starter. He has essentially matched that production, meaning he is performing close to par, if not up to people's hopes and wishes. If Jerome could ever come close to matching the period of production that got him his contract, the Knicks would be ecstatic. Beno's contract is not that of an elite starting PG. He is a fringe-starter/core rotation player, and that is how he is paid with his league-average contract.

Pointing out why you don't like Beno does not create a correlation to Jerome.

Whatever...originally I said he is quickly becoming like a Jerome James contract. He is not there yet, but is creeping there. If he continues to play this way, he will ultimately lose his pt and his job. I could care less about stats at this point. If he were to see his pt disappear he would be a mid-level signie sitting at the end of the bench. (you know, like Kenny Thomas...and Jerome James)

 

[Showtime]

Beno has been a major disappointment. He gets beaten regularly, can't shoot the 3 and is a turnover waiting to happen. He's too slow for today's starting PG positition. He's a backup PG on other teams. I wouldn't be sad to see him traded.

He can shoot the 3, he's just not consistent. He's a streaky shooter who needs to get hot. He also isn't that slow, because he has shown the ability to penetrate defenses (ala LAL). He's not the quickest guy, but he's not so slow that he's not capable of running an offense.

 

[Kings Faithful]

Its not that Beno is much different...but we expected him to have a better season than last year and he's not. Not only is it not better, but he's turning the ball over more .6 more and he just flat out sucks at 3's at .240 this year compared to .387 last year. He is averaging an extra assist thoe, ill give him that.

 

[PoundForPound]

Like I said in my first post,

Stop looking at numbers.

Yeah STATISTICALLY he is almost identical to last year, but last year he was a whole different kind of PG. Consistent, smart, and selective, which imo are three very very important aspects of a good PG. It makes no sense for you guys to base things solely on stats. For example....On paper, averaging 10 points for 2 games when scoring 10 in both is NOT the same as scoring 20 pts in one game and 0 in the next. I'd take the first one every time.