Scott Howard Cooper trade idea: Artest/KT for Odom

[Ryle]

TJ Ford and pick.

First off, Smills, didn't you notice that KT was involved in the trade??? I assumed you would be all over it

Second, TJ Ford has another 3 years and 25 million on his contract and no way am I taking that back for Ron's expiring deal.

If we can get back Odom and his almost 15 mill expiring deal and give up Artest's expiring and drop KT's 2 more years I would do it.

 

[pkballr]

Bad enough as it is trying to get two teams to trade within their division. Now you got the Suns involved? Wow. BTW, Shaq and Horry are both on that list.

So basically this trade boils down to dumping KT's contract I assume? With Odom expiring this year, some of you are saying trade him at the deadline, but couldn't the same be said for Artest? Honestly, outside of Odom, the Lakers don't have very many prospects the Kings should be willing to take on. Plus, their second round is so late, it'd be useless to take it. All in all though, I'd be willing to do it. I'm just wondering how a frontcourt of Salmons, Odom, and Miller will do.

 

[Bricklayer]

Although the Artest/KT for Odom deal makes total sense for the Kings, and even MORE sense for LA, I just cannot see Petrie giving the Lakers the missing defensive/toughness link to sustain their championship-caliber position for several years with all those up-and-coming young guys on the Laker roster. The Lakers with Artest (and a healthy Bynum) are likely better than Boston, perhaps much better.

What we certainly do not want to happen is to find an impassable western roadblock in 3 years or so as we try to rise up from the rebuilding ashes. So my view is that we do indeed worry, in this particular case, about how a key trade helps a division rival to sustain an upper echelon position for the intermediate term, and not just look at what it does to help us advance along the lowly path of rebuilding.

Said impassable roadblock (even assuming that ron stays sane) would then be peopled by a whole squad of 32-3 yr olds with maybe 1-2 years of contention left. There is little risk for a team in rebuild mode.

 

[joemama]

Pros

Odom isn't (exactly) what we need, but he's more of a PF (what we need really badly) than Artest. What I mean exactly is that Odom grabs more boards than Artest and is alot closer to actually being a 4. So he does fit an immediate need as well as make an enticing $13 million expiring.

Also I don't know if anyone mentioned it but Artest (even at $7.8) when combined with KT is really shipping out more salary then we're taking in.

Moving either Salmons or Artest gives more time on the wing: (definately) Flaco and less so (and hopefully this lifetime) Douby.

Odom could open the door just a little bit earlier, *as mentioned trade deadline or third team with what we actually want, meaning more options.

Obvious get rid of KT CANCER cough cough.

Cons

Odom's a jerk. We went to Hard Rock Cafe in San Antonio when the Lakers were playing the Spurs. . . . and who was there (from the Lakers) Ronny Turiaf and Lamar Odom. My friend's wife asked Turiaf if they could take a picture together. He was cool and they took a pic. Then she asked Odom if they could take a picture (no biggie really he wasn't already eating or anything) Odom said "DON'T TOUCH ME" like a d**k.

We are losing talent.

I guess we're still undecided (as a consensus) if helping ourselves really matters if we're helping the Lakers, but we are still helping the Lakers.

Artest has from what I understood took an unusual liking to our (unknown talent) Williams. Williams and Artest obviously push each other in the weight room, but (even more than that) Artest is actually teaching his protege.

 

[bench_blob]

This trade is HORRIBLE.

Why do we want to give the Lakers exactly what they need for an overrated role player???

Odom is good, but he is not going to lead us anywhere.

I like dumping KT, but I don't see this offer as very appealing. We need young players (i.e. Kleiza) with star potential and extra mid to high draft picks, not a near 30 year with a lot of miles on him.

 

[reyes13]

I live in LA and there has been some buzz regarding Artest. Check out this surprising interview:
http://thelakersnation.com/blog/2008/05/24/ron-artest-interviews-kobe-bryant/
I would have thought RonRon wouldn't like Kobe so much...but like you guys said he wasn't around during the rivalry. I was all in favor of this trade since I believed Ron would sabotage them. But after seeing this video, it seems that RonRon is a big fan and wouldn't mind taking 2nd seat to Kobe. I say VETO the trade.

 

[Bricklayer]

I live in LA and there has been some buzz regarding Artest. Check out this surprising interview:
http://thelakersnation.com/blog/2008/05/24/ron-artest-interviews-kobe-bryant/
I would have thought RonRon wouldn't like Kobe so much...but like you guys said he wasn't around during the rivalry. I was all in favor of this trade since I believed Ron would sabotage them. But after seeing this video, it seems that RonRon is a big fan and wouldn't mind taking 2nd seat to Kobe. I say VETO the trade.

That is not the primary consideration -- just a bonus if it worked out that way.

Primary considerations are:

a) shedding an otherwise unsheddable contract in KT. Also frees up an extra roster spot for another kid. If we get lucky and Reef decided to retire, we could actually be free of all our worst contracts by this time next year and truly begin the rebuild.
b) shedding an unstable presence who might leave us for nothing or force us to marry him in a year even if he does not blow up.
b) acquiring a giant ending contract attached to a damn good player which we might be able to turn right around and trade at the trade deadline for some juicy kids/picks from a contender, or jsut use to take a chuge cunk off our cap.


The relevant consideration is that OUR future, and the assets we have to play with, looks a lot clearer after a move like this. Screw the Lakers. If you think they would screw over their own franchise just to hurt us you are kidding yourself. Nor should we do the reverse. Its about the Kings.

 

[Smills91]

I'm all for improving the Kings...but trading for Odom does NOT do that in the least, even if it includes Kenny. Dealing Kenny a year early on his deal on saves the Maloofs a few bucks. It does NOTHING of significance to help the Kings improve in 09. In fact, it makes us worse in talent, and I'd much rather have 30 million in expirings in 09-10, rather than 22 million in expiring.

 

[Jerryaki]

I'm all for improving the Kings...but trading for Odom does NOT do that in the least, even if it includes Kenny. Dealing Kenny a year early on his deal on saves the Maloofs a few bucks. It does NOTHING of significance to help the Kings improve in 09. In fact, it makes us worse in talent, and I'd much rather have 30 million in expirings in 09-10, rather than 22 million in expiring.

odom's an expiring, so why couldn't we trade him to a contender next year for young assets? you're telling me that we'd have the same opportunity with kenny thomas?

also, what's the difference between:

30M in expiring in 09-10
22M in 09-10, 8M in 08-09

just don't spend the cap space freed up next year!

 

[Smills91]

odom's an expiring, so why couldn't we trade him to a contender next year for young assets? you're telling me that we'd have the same opportunity with kenny thomas?

also, what's the difference between:

30M in expiring in 09-10
22M in 09-10, 8M in 08-09

just don't spend the cap space freed up next year!

Ron's a damn expiring too, if we want to get something for an expiring THIS season, just package Mikki/Ron and that's the sum of Odom's deal and that package is INFINITLY more valuable that Odom alone.

 

[Bricklayer]

deal and that package is INFINITLY more valuable that Odom alone.

Um no, no its not. And that's not even arguable. Ron Artest is radioactive, and there are only a handful of teams that will even consider him. There is next to no market. And Mikki is not a full expiring -- he costs you $3 mil even if you cut him.

Odom on the other hand is the real thing -- a very good and versatile player still in his prime and long past the character questions from his first couple of years. You hang a for sale sign around his neck, and half the league comes sniffing.

 

[nbrans]

Odom is good and versatile, I especially love his rebounding, but I'm not sure he's a winner and the playoffs raised quite a few question marks. I'd be very curious to see what his value would be on the open market.

Is he held down by Kobe? Or is he a shrinking violet?

I'd go with the former, but there are still some question marks. Ultimately I think getting Odom and putting the ball in his hands in the high post a la CWebb/Vlade/Brad and utilizing his passing would be tremendous for Kevin, and he would seriously help the rebounding. PG?/Martin/Salmons/Odom/Hawes could be a really interesting nucleus.

When Odom had the ball in the playoffs he did very well. But he meshes so horribly with Kobe it's really difficult to get a true sense of his current abilities.

 

[Bricklayer]

Odom is good and versatile, I especially love his rebounding, but I'm not sure he's a winner and the playoffs raised quite a few question marks. I'd be very curious to see what his value would be on the open market.

Is he held down by Kobe? Or is he a shrinking violet?

I'd go with the former, but there are still some question marks. Ultimately I think getting Odom and putting the ball in his hands in the high post a la CWebb/Vlade/Brad and utilizing his passing would be tremendous for Kevin, and he would seriously help the rebounding. PG?/Martin/Salmons/Odom/Hawes could be a really interesting nucleus.

When Odom had the ball in the playoffs he did very well. But he meshes so horribly with Kobe it's really difficult to get a true sense of his current abilities.

I consider it only minorly important that he is actually one of the better fits for our old offense (an offense Geoff likes but Reggie wants to go away from) in the league.

His real value to me is as an expiring contract and potential trade piece to a playoff team looking to add another very talented player to their mix.

 

[C Diddy]

Ron's a damn expiring too, if we want to get something for an expiring THIS season, just package Mikki/Ron and that's the sum of Odom's deal and that package is INFINITLY more valuable that Odom alone.

Ron/Mikki is infinitely more valuable in trading than Odom's 14mill expiring contract?



And how does that benefit us more then getting rid of Kenny?

 

[nbrans]

I consider it only minorly important that he is actually one of the better fits for our old offense (an offense Geoff likes but Reggie wants to go away from) in the league.

His real value to me is as an expiring contract and potential trade piece to a playoff team looking to add another very talented player to their mix.

Well, I agree in the long run, but in the meantime he would also make the Kings a lot better. That's also a consideration given that his presence at PF could mean a playoff run. I'd prefer to look past Odom and into the future, but he's also a strangely good fit.

 

[AriesMar27]

id do it and we could still trade salmons and moore to the raptors for tj ford....

ford
martin
whoever(garcia/#12/gerald green)
odom
hawes....

 

[ockingsfan]

Artest and KT for Odom and Farmar

if we are going to trade the defensive stud the lakers need for a sustained
championship run, the kings better get more than lamar odom.... i would take Odom and Jordan Farmar for Artest and KT....

Why the lakers would do it? Kobe has made it known he would love to play alongside artest and the lakers are arrogant enough to think they can control ron ron.... Artest would be the missing piece with toughness and defensive, the lakers were missing against the celtics... plus the lakers need artest more than the kings need odom...

why the kings would do it? the kings would get two potential starters and huge salary cap relief ($14mil) if they let odom walk after the season, plus we get rid of KT's contract.... farmar has potential to be a very good starting point in the nba...

the kings starting lineup:

PF Odom / Moore
SF Salmons / Garcia
C Miller / Hawes
SG Martin / Douby
PG Farmar / Beno

 

[AriesMar27]

if we could trade artest/kt/williams for odom/farmar/ariza id be so down for that.... who has petries number? then we can draft a big man to replace odom the following year... because we would have to resign farmar and ariza...

farmar
martin
ariza
odom/#12
hawes

that would be a young, athletic team once odom is gone....

 

[SacKings7]

if we are going to trade the defensive stud the lakers need for a sustained
championship run, the kings better get more than lamar odom.... i would take Odom and Jordan Farmar for Artest and KT....

Why the lakers would do it? Kobe has made it known he would love to play alongside artest and the lakers are arrogant enough to think they can control ron ron.... Artest would be the missing piece with toughness and defensive, the lakers were missing against the celtics... plus the lakers need artest more than the kings need odom...

why the kings would do it? the kings would get two potential starters and huge salary cap relief ($14mil) if they let odom walk after the season, plus we get rid of KT's contract.... farmar has potential to be a very good starting point in the nba...

the kings starting lineup:

PF Odom / Moore
SF Salmons / Garcia
C Miller / Hawes
SG Martin / Douby
PG Farmar / Beno

It's very doubtful that the Lakers trade Farmar. He had a very good season, and he's their only true backup PG. If we want Farmar, chances are we'd have to give up Cisco at the least

 

[Vlade4GM]

if we could trade artest/kt/williams for odom/farmar/ariza id be so down for that.... who has petries number? then we can draft a big man to replace odom the following year... because we would have to resign farmar and ariza...

farmar
martin
ariza
odom/#12
hawes

that would be a young, athletic team once odom is gone....

Odom, Ariza, and Farmar? You have to be kidding, the lakers aren't even giving up Lamar and Farmar in the same package even IF they want Artest.

 

[AriesMar27]

i dont know about that... they have too many at back up sf on their team as it is... walton/vlad/sasha and if they trade for artest they stil have their mle to sign a back up pg...

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I'm pretty sure Odom is in play for us, and there are going to be times when negotiations are going to be at a standstill as both teams try to unload their radioactive contracts (Kings: Kenny Thomas, Lakers: Luke Walton, Radmanovic) towards each other. For us, Shelden Williams and/or Quincy Douby, besides Thomas, may also be in play in terms of being attached to Artest in the deal, and for the Lakers, besides Walton and Radmanovic, perhaps they would try to throw someone else like Chris Mihm along with LO. After their run through the playoffs, I'm pretty sure they would want to keep much of their core intact, so the only pieces we can request for are their lower-regarded players and/or nuclear contracts along with LO.

I think we can up the ante though, because the Lakers may be a situation where they think they are that one piece away from a championship, a defensive SF, and they may think Artest may fit that bill. If that's the case, I'm not sure if we can get Farmar because he's their only backup PG, but maybe procure future draft picks out of them while unloading some of those nuclear contracts hopefully.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, I agree in the long run, but in the meantime he would also make the Kings a lot better. That's also a consideration given that his presence at PF could mean a playoff run. I'd prefer to look past Odom and into the future, but he's also a strangely good fit.

That would be almsot problematic, because at that point having Odom, and therefore doing our annual chasing the playoffs thing, blows another top 10 draft pick for us. And because we are doing our annual chasing windmills thing we also refuse to trade him for picks/kids at the deadline. At that point his only value is an expiring contract liquidating KT. But he could be worth so much more.

 

[AriesMar27]

how can the lakers include vlad or walton with odom? thats like 20 mil in salary... who would the kings send to the lakers? miller or reef? that would be pointless since reefs contract is just as long as vlads and he cant even play...

 

[Vlade4GM]

I'm pretty sure Odom is in play for us, and there are going to be times when negotiations are going to be at a standstill as both teams try to unload their radioactive contracts (Kings: Kenny Thomas, Lakers: Luke Walton, Radmanovic) towards each other. For us, Shelden Williams and/or Quincy Douby, besides Thomas, may also be in play in terms of being attached to Artest in the deal, and for the Lakers, besides Walton and Radmanovic, perhaps they would try to throw someone else like Chris Mihm along with LO. After their run through the playoffs, I'm pretty sure they would want to keep much of their core intact, so the only pieces we can request for are their lower-regarded players and/or nuclear contracts along with LO.

I think we can up the ante though, because the Lakers may be a situation where they think they are that one piece away from a championship, a defensive SF, and they may think Artest may fit that bill. If that's the case, I'm not sure if we can get Farmar because he's their only backup PG, but maybe procure future draft picks out of them while unloading some of those nuclear contracts hopefully.

Kupchak already knows he'd be giving up a lot with Odom for Artest, he isn't going to throw his future PG in there as well. Artest's value isn't that good and the lakers aren't that desperate.

 

[AriesMar27]

Kupchak already knows he'd be giving up a lot with Odom for Artest, he isn't going to throw his future PG in there as well. Artest's value isn't that good and the lakers aren't that desperate.

did you see game 6 of the finals? allen and pierce took turns flying by any defender not named kobe bryant... and the kings dont have the pieces to take back a player like walton either...

if they wanted to the lakers could trade odom to houston for battier and bobby jackson... or to detroit for prince and mcdyess, though i dont know who would play center for the pistons with odom and wallace...

 

[Smills91]

Um no, no its not. And that's not even arguable. Ron Artest is radioactive, and there are only a handful of teams that will even consider him. There is next to no market. And Mikki is not a full expiring -- he costs you $3 mil even if you cut him.

Odom on the other hand is the real thing -- a very good and versatile player still in his prime and long past the character questions from his first couple of years. You hang a for sale sign around his neck, and half the league comes sniffing.

Bull Sh** Brick. And you know it. Ron hasn't down more than raised eyebrows here. Let the past be in the past. The guy is by FAR a better producer on the basketball court. And comparing him directly with Odom...he's either on par or FAR greater than Odom is every single category minus rebounding.

In fact, Ron even blows him out of the water in terms of intangibles to help you win AND amazingly has a higher basketball IQ than O-DUMB. I think Odom is a nice player, but I would NEVER consider dealing for him to move Ron out, BECAUSE(and this is FACTUALLY ACCURATE whether you want to accept it or not is your choice) RON IS A FAR SUPERIOR OVERALL PLAYER than Odumb.

What's with all the Ron Artest HATE on this site. It's downright ridiculous.

 

[Jerryaki]

for this past season, ron (as a #1 option) and odom (as a #2/#3 option) had pretty similar stats. but we've had ron as option #1 for two years in a row now, and it ain't pretty. it's not all on him, but dammit, he's no superstar, he doesn't play like one, he doesn't affect the game like one, he doesn't take over the game like one, and our record shows it. let's try to find a real superstar instead of hanging on to vestigial players.

now, this isn't even to argue the who's better on the court angle, or who would be good for the kings now, because that doesn't matter to me. i don't care who's better. neither are going to be as good 4 years down the line when this team might have a chance to be relevant again.

 

[Warhawk]

Bull Sh** Brick. And you know it. Ron hasn't down more than raised eyebrows here. Let the past be in the past. The guy is by FAR a better producer on the basketball court. And comparing him directly with Odom...he's either on par or FAR greater than Odom is every single category minus rebounding.

In fact, Ron even blows him out of the water in terms of intangibles to help you win AND amazingly has a higher basketball IQ than O-DUMB. I think Odom is a nice player, but I would NEVER consider dealing for him to move Ron out, BECAUSE(and this is FACTUALLY ACCURATE whether you want to accept it or not is your choice) RON IS A FAR SUPERIOR OVERALL PLAYER than Odumb.

What's with all the Ron Artest HATE on this site. It's downright ridiculous.

OK, let's drop the attitude, can we?

Fact is, nobody wants Artest bad enough to give away much for him. Look at the trade deadline last year. We couldn't even get Lee or Kleiza for him. His value is much lower than you think.....

A superior player? Yes. A higher value? Because of the intangibles, no.

Teams will jump at him for the MLE (see the Mavericks, Lakers, Knicks, etc as options here based on public comments), but not for much more than that.....and they might not have to go any higher because of the market.

 

[Bricklayer]

Bull Sh** Brick. And you know it. Ron hasn't down more than raised eyebrows here. Let the past be in the past. The guy is by FAR a better producer on the basketball court. And comparing him directly with Odom...he's either on par or FAR greater than Odom is every single category minus rebounding.

In fact, Ron even blows him out of the water in terms of intangibles to help you win AND amazingly has a higher basketball IQ than O-DUMB. I think Odom is a nice player, but I would NEVER consider dealing for him to move Ron out, BECAUSE(and this is FACTUALLY ACCURATE whether you want to accept it or not is your choice) RON IS A FAR SUPERIOR OVERALL PLAYER than Odumb.

What's with all the Ron Artest HATE on this site. It's downright ridiculous.

As usual you miss the point. But rarely have even you missed the point while making such a loud ugly mess of yourself. Save it for the wide eyed tourists you try to impress at other sites.

Also quit trying to change your argument whenever you get called on it. Or better yet, make better arguments to start with.

Your argument was, and I quote lest you misremmeber your own argument yet again:

"Ron's a damn expiring too, if we want to get something for an expiring THIS season, just package Mikki/Ron and that's the sum of Odom's deal and that package is INFINITLY more valuable that Odom alone."

Your argument was not your normal Ron Ron signed my arm and I will never wash it ever again fanboy take on Ron's superhuman prowess. It was now a desperate, and kind of sad, attempt to claim that a Ron Artest/Mikki Moore package would be worth more in trade as a pair of expirings than was Lamar Odom.

Your argument of course ignored:
1) that Mikki is not truly an expiring, but has an odd buyout clause so that a team could owe him $3 mil if they cut him 2 years from now rather than $6mil if they keep him.
2) the Ron to L.A. rumors include dumping KTs contract, your fantasy proposition leaves us with that contract and so is at best $7million worse.
3) that the very best offer we got for Ron Artest just 4 months ago was scuttled for the sake of Linas Kleiza. The last time Lamar Odom was involved in a trade he was one of the centerpieces in a deal for a still in his prime Shaq. Oddly I do not see Mikki's "value" making up that difference.


Your agenda has not changed -- keep your snugglebumpkins in town at all cost. But like most fans of a single player it begins to badly erode your acumen in short order, and the arguments just get more and more strained and shrill.