Was Douby a wasted pick?

[Gary]

Garcia plays best at the 3. Beno, Martin, Garcia, PF to be named later, Hawes is what I'm thinking the Kings team of 2010+ could easily look like.

WOOHOO! Someone who thinks like me..

The Beno situation is not conclusive though.. At least in my mind. Technically he is in his first year starting. Not sure how much better Beno will get (tomorrow morning I will add up his starting stats, and see where he can go from there). Worse case scenario for Beno is a Bobby Jackson role which isn;t bad at all.

 

[Gary]

I think he blew out his knee shortly after being traded. If I recall correctly, he was never a factor after that. I don't remember the specifics, but I am almost positive it was a knee injury...

Remember Pervis? He played a hell of a year and a half with Boston, and then the injury bug hit him again, and pretty much ended his usefulness.

Didn't Pervis average like 20/10 with 3 blocks a game with Boston one year?

Going back to 1990 draft We got;

Simmons who averaged 27ppg 11rpg 4apg 2bpg
Bonner who averaged 20ppg 14rpg
Mays who averaged 24ppg 5rpg 3apg
Causwell who averaged 11ppg 8rpg 4bpg (so-so)

We got 4 position players, and didn't make jack out of them ARGH!!!

If I was an uneducated guy just looking at stats I and had four picks this year and all four of these guys came out I would seriously consider drafting each one again! LOL.. Simmons was a stud in college.. Who averages those kind of stats? Beasley? Bonner would solve our rebounding woes at PF. Causwell clogs the middle, and Mays is that 6th man type player off the bench.... ok ok ok ..

 

[mac]

haha in fact I don't want Douby to take it to the rim more. I prefer it when he just takes the jumpshot. I mean we know how good a shooter he can be, and the range that he has so why can't he just be a gunner like Reddick or Korver or something.

 

[Spike]

Gunners are most useful in an inside-out sort of offense (dump it in low, await the double, pass out.) I have yet to see the Kings do that consistently, which is why I think Douby may be better suited elsewhere.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Remember Pervis? He played a hell of a year and a half with Boston, and then the injury bug hit him again, and pretty much ended his usefulness.

Didn't Pervis average like 20/10 with 3 blocks a game with Boston one year?

Going back to 1990 draft We got;

Simmons who averaged 27ppg 11rpg 4apg 2bpg
Bonner who averaged 20ppg 14rpg
Mays who averaged 24ppg 5rpg 3apg
Causwell who averaged 11ppg 8rpg 4bpg (so-so)

We got 4 position players, and didn't make jack out of them ARGH!!!

Well, in defense of the L-Train, he had a pretty good first few years where he aveaged 18 and 8, then he messed up his knee...and Mays turned into Spud Webb, who had a few decent years for us, so that's what that got us. Nothing warranted us drafting 'Out of Service' Pervis, though...should have been Sean Elliott, but oh well, hindsight is 20/20, right?

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Douby will be a solid bench player.. he has that instant offence that BJax had..his dribbling has improved alot since his first year.. I think it all comes down to confidence and playing time for the Spliff right now.

 

[fnordius]

Didn't Pervis average like 20/10 with 3 blocks a game with Boston one year?

That was his third year, when he was still playing for the Bullets. But that was also the only season in his 11 year career when he started 50 or more games. Whatever the reasons for that were, I find it unexciting in a #1 pick.

Still, considering how inept our management of the time seemed, I don't think we did that badly, overall. The NBA was just starting to become a big business, thanks to Michael Jordan. A lot of teams, especially in small markets, still didn't invest in scouting like they should. The year Pervis was drafted was also the first year the draft was limited to 2 rounds. Before that, it seemed like teams often got good players by brute force; they'd just cut back from an annual influx of hundreds of draftees (for 24 teams) a few years before, and players like Mario Elie cropped up in the 7th round, since few managers had much of an idea what they were doing.

So... coulda been worse.

 

[Smills91]

I still see Quincy becoming a Jason Terry-lite type of player. He can score in all sorts of fashion and has the ability to be a lights-out shooter. He's only played organized ball for about 6-7 years now. Where most guys this age have played 12+. I think he has the ability to be a very, very good player still and I think it's a bit too early to call him a bust. Is he as good as we hoped, not yet, definitely not. But he's shown flashes of pure brilliance too where he could be as good as a Jason Terry. It's all about consistency and him LEARNING basketball will do more to help him with that aspect of the game. Minutes would help his cause as well...there's no way Anthony johnson should be seeing ANY minutes that Douby isn't.

ANd I think you guys are overrating his lack of size. He's got some of the longest arms for his size I've ever seen. And as Jerry likes to say, I've never seen anyone rebound a ball with the top of their head, meaning standing REACH is the important measurement, not overall height. Douby can really pester opposing teams guards with his length and quickness.

 

[mac]

The point about pestering guards suddenly made me draw comparisons to Vujacic. Shoot 3s, pester guard. Well at least at the moment that's all he's good for.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I still see Quincy becoming a Jason Terry-lite type of player. He can score in all sorts of fashion and has the ability to be a lights-out shooter. He's only played organized ball for about 6-7 years now. Where most guys this age have played 12+. I think he has the ability to be a very, very good player still and I think it's a bit too early to call him a bust. Is he as good as we hoped, not yet, definitely not. But he's shown flashes of pure brilliance too where he could be as good as a Jason Terry. It's all about consistency and him LEARNING basketball will do more to help him with that aspect of the game. Minutes would help his cause as well...there's no way Anthony johnson should be seeing ANY minutes that Douby isn't.

ANd I think you guys are overrating his lack of size. He's got some of the longest arms for his size I've ever seen. And as Jerry likes to say, I've never seen anyone rebound a ball with the top of their head, meaning standing REACH is the important measurement, not overall height. Douby can really pester opposing teams guards with his length and quickness.

smills, i see the same potential in douby. they need to utlize his strengths properly.

mac The point about pestering guards suddenly made me draw comparisons to Vujacic. Shoot 3s, pester guard. Well at least at the moment that's all he's good for.

sasha is fitting his role very well.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think so, I liked Douby at the time a lot, but I still didn't like the pick for us because there were solid PG prospects on the board like Rodriguez, Farmar, Lowry, Rondo, and Williams. Rondo was my fav and I think we were stupid to not pick him, the dude had lotto talent and was way underrated in that draft.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I think so, I liked Douby at the time a lot, but I still didn't like the pick for us because there were solid PG prospects on the board like Rodriguez, Farmar, Lowry, Rondo, and Williams. Rondo was my fav and I think we were stupid to not pick him, the dude had lotto talent and was way underrated in that draft.

yeah, i liked rodriguez, farmar and rondo too. i'll leave reserve my comments on douby until he gets consistent minutes. hard to judge a player who is only getting sporadic minutes here and there. it's tough to see him on the bench when theus is playing anthony johnson over him.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

A couple of things on this issue:

1) Some above me have already echoed my sentiments, I did not want Douby at the time of the draft. At the 19th pick, I would've preferred Rondo, Farmar or even Marcus Williams. In terms of sheer talent, all-around ability at the point and intangibles, any of those three would've been better--Douby was a one-trick pony at college who was excellent at that trick, which was shooting/scoring.

2) I'm definitely not placing the blame on Douby, because it's not his fault: but as some have already mentioned above, once again, the current team construct allows Douby, few, if any, minutes. I don't understand the hard-on the past couple of years (Musselman, Adelman in the later years with us) with playing veterans over younger players--Kenny Thomas/Reef have displaced minutes from Justin Williams, and now even AJ supposedly is in the higher pecking order than Douby. I know we've seen many flashes of shooting/scoring ability from Douby already, but consider this: we already have shooters in Garcia and Martin, scorers in Garcia, Martin and Salmons, and what we need is an all-around player who excels in intangibles. Douby is not of that mold; he's a purebred scorer through and through, and has shown
little PG ability. I've already stated in other threads he's not helping his case if he's not diversifying his game towards other aspects, because the things he brings are already filled on this team.

3) Douby is considered a dime-a-dozen tweener shooting guard in this league. I know he's a homegrown talent, he's been with us for a while now and we've grown to appreciate his flashes of potential, but the fact of the matter is he hasn't shown much (besides his shotblocking ability on jumpers--what a unique skill for a small guard) to break out of that mold. Even if he does succeed as a scorer in the Bobby Jackson mold (probably what Geoff is hoping for)...what does that lead us to? Do we really, really need another scorer? If he does get the minutes and plays up to his potential, he can earn himself a lucrative contract...but the constant is, he's not a PG, he's undersized, and those are two things that are probably hampering him right now at the time being. Just needs to diversify that game.

 

[tyrant]

A couple of things on this issue:

1) Some above me have already echoed my sentiments, I did not want Douby at the time of the draft. At the 19th pick, I would've preferred Rondo, Farmar or even Marcus Williams. In terms of sheer talent, all-around ability at the point and intangibles, any of those three would've been better--Douby was a one-trick pony at college who was excellent at that trick, which was shooting/scoring.

2) I'm definitely not placing the blame on Douby, because it's not his fault: but as some have already mentioned above, once again, the current team construct allows Douby, few, if any, minutes. I don't understand the hard-on the past couple of years (Musselman, Adelman in the later years with us) with playing veterans over younger players--Kenny Thomas/Reef have displaced minutes from Justin Williams, and now even AJ supposedly is in the higher pecking order than Douby. I know we've seen many flashes of shooting/scoring ability from Douby already, but consider this: we already have shooters in Garcia and Martin, scorers in Garcia, Martin and Salmons, and what we need is an all-around player who excels in intangibles. Douby is not of that mold; he's a purebred scorer through and through, and has shown
little PG ability. I've already stated in other threads he's not helping his case if he's not diversifying his game towards other aspects, because the things he brings are already filled on this team.

3) Douby is considered a dime-a-dozen tweener shooting guard in this league. I know he's a homegrown talent, he's been with us for a while now and we've grown to appreciate his flashes of potential, but the fact of the matter is he hasn't shown much (besides his shotblocking ability on jumpers--what a unique skill for a small guard) to break out of that mold. Even if he does succeed as a scorer in the Bobby Jackson mold (probably what Geoff is hoping for)...what does that lead us to? Do we really, really need another scorer? If he does get the minutes and plays up to his potential, he can earn himself a lucrative contract...but the constant is, he's not a PG, he's undersized, and those are two things that are probably hampering him right now at the time being. Just needs to diversify that game.

so one of the things you're saying is that douby has this talent, but there's not much use for it because other players on this team can do the same thing? ok, well what about the consistancy of the players? it may be somewhat of a different issue, but it does have an effect on your game and production. garcia, salmons and martin. neither one of those 3 can come into a game like a monte ellis or a josh howard or a bobby jackson and put up 10 straight points to get their team rolling again. ive seen farmars game and ive seen rondo's. not that impressive. you want quincy to stick to what he does best which is score. and theres nothing wrong with that. there have been tons of good point gaurds that shoot first. if you're open why not. a player begins to suck when you ask him to do things he cant do. asking quincy to play point guard isnt asking him to do something he cant. but when you ask him to become a passer 1st then thats when he may have problems.

this team is confused. you're not going to shatter a glass window by throwing water balloons. in a generic meaning, STOP DOING STUFF THAT ISNT WORKING. its time for moore, thomas, johnson to get on the bench and stay there. forever

 

[fnordius]

there have been tons of good point gaurds that shoot first.

Douby's problem fitting into the roster is that he's not shoot first, he's shoot only. Moore, Hawes and Williams are the only Kings with lower assists per 48. And even Moore makes more assists per FG he attempts, so you might as well call Douby a miniature PF/C who doesn't rebound as to call him a PG.

And that's not to call him a bad person and a ball hog, I just don't believe he's ever thought like a PG. He's not looking for a weakness in the opponent's defense which will allow *some* King to score, he's looking for a chance to personally take a shot, or, failing that, toss it to somebody else before the clock runs down too far. Which is fine for a SG, it's just not something that our roster needs. If the FO decide that they're not willing to pay Garcia what it would take to keep him past the end of his rookie contract, maybe he would have a role then. But if that's not what they're thinking, I don't see him moving much beyond 11th man status as a King.

I think his use at this point is as a potential trade sweetener, if Geoff can persuade Reggie to give him enough minutes to develop any trade value.

 

[tyrant]

good post. im not really a douby fan, just wanted the guy to have a chance like everyone else. he hasnt gotten many minutes. and i dont see anyone else thats sharing the ball as well as beno and miller. artest really isnt looking at defenses' trying to figure out which is the best shot for the team. instead the best chance to bump that 19 point average.

 

[Bricklayer]

smills, i see the same potential in douby. they need to utlize his strengths properly.

mac The point about pestering guards suddenly made me draw comparisons to Vujacic. Shoot 3s, pester guard. Well at least at the moment that's all he's good for.

sasha is fitting his role very well.

Sasha is much bigger than Douby -- he has legit OG size -- and has shown better PG skills in his early career as well. He is also a catch and shoot player, while Douby prefers to have the ball to score like he did in college -- dribble, dribble, look to create his shot etc. And Sasha is still a borderline scrub almost comically decried by Laker fans (they blame him for everything up to and including global warming).

 

[Big Cuz 15]

it's very simple what needs to be done.

cut the crap.

bye artest, SAR, KT, AJ, Miller, Mikki

free up some space for other players to play. we got these garbage players that are holding back the future.

Q is a undersized SG in the mold of jason terry, arenas, monta ellis. We need to have a ball handler next to him so he can what he does best. Garcia has the potential to be that guy with his ball handling abilities.

beno/draftpick or garcia
kmart/douby
salmons/garcia
shelden/draftpick cheap FA (min)
hawes/draftpick cheap FA (min)

yeah, its gonna be ugly during the rebuild but what the heck are we waiting for? hopefully sneak into the playoffs so the maloofs can make a extra buck?

bash away artest supporters. hes not gonna be with us after this season!

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Sasha is much bigger than Douby -- he has legit OG size -- and has shown better PG skills in his early career as well. He is also a catch and shoot player, while Douby prefers to have the ball to score like he did in college -- dribble, dribble, look to create his shot etc. And Sasha is still a borderline scrub almost comically decried by Laker fans (they blame him for everything up to and including global warming).

we still haven't seen what douby can really do. i'm sickened that they aren't trying to maximize our young talent. hello, i don't even think the front office knows what the nbdl is. send them there if they plan to sit em behind players like Anthony fricking johnson. who the hell is he?

 

[fnordius]

Anthony fricking johnson. who the hell is he?

He, unfortunately, is the closest thing Geoff has ever had to a successful 2nd round draft pick. He was about 50% more productive, per minute played, at Atlanta than he's been at Sac, so I'm sure they were hoping for more. Maybe they were even hoping to sign him as a cheap backup for next year, since we currently have nothing remotely resembling a PG lined up, and the beginning of this season proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that we need one. AJ may have been an attempt to prevent Beno's agent from trying to squeeze us dry.

But, so far, AJ has looked awful. I don't think the experiment is working out.

 

[Bricklayer]

Q is a undersized SG in the mold of jason terry, arenas, monta ellis.

All of those guys can run the point (or are points). Makes a huge difference in usefulness. And a poor man's undersized shooting guard is basically NBDL material. They are inherently flawed and difficult to use pieces at anything below the star level. A 6'3" shooting guard is simply not an NBA player as a rule. Now a 6'3" combo guard can be a backup swinging between the positions. But he'll bounce around. But a pure SG? Its like a 6'6"/6'7" PF -- that's college size, not NBA size.

And the problem is even more acute on the Kings, because we have a young pure SG at that posiiton who will average 36+min a game and has little ability to play either PG (lacks skills/mentality/ball handling) or SF (too slight). So if that SG can't swing, and Douby can't swing, and they can't really play together, than there are nothing but scrap minutes for Douby. Nor, as a rule, are single-positional SG/SF/PF guys terribly useful off your bench. You can have a pure whatever starting. But generally you want your bench guys to be able to swing between positions and have versatility except for perhaps a PG and maybe a C.

 

[Vlade4GM]

yeah, i liked rodriguez, farmar and rondo too. i'll leave reserve my comments on douby until he gets consistent minutes. hard to judge a player who is only getting sporadic minutes here and there. it's tough to see him on the bench when theus is playing anthony johnson over him.

I'm not trying to say Douby will be a bad player or anything, but there were better fits for us on the board than Douby, we should've went towards a PG.

 

[oldenpolynice]

I think Douby is a great ball-handler and a competent defender. He has a nose for the basket and could get to the line often if given more minutes. He's not a bust; just not enough minutes to go around.

 

[jcassio]

About Travis Mays...

It was one of his ankles- tendons ruptured. He's an assistant coach for LSU's womens basketball team, and there was an article about him just recently.

Yeah, I looked it up. You're right about Mays now being an asst coach with LSU. As far as his career as a player, two games into his second season (and after being traded to the Hawks), Mays ruptured both tendons in his right ankle. He then returned to play the following season, which was his final season in the NBA. (He had a NBA career scoring average of 11.1 points per game.) Then he extended his pro basketball career by playing for teams in Greece, Israel, Turkey and Italy where he was an all-star and led Panionious (Greece) to the European Championships.

If I recall correctly, Travis Mays was never a PG in college, but he did often bring the ball upcourt in a 3-guard attack. So the Kings drafted Mays, a 6'2 shooting guard - and believed he would become their PG. Someone (perhaps Jerry R?) even predicted that Mays would become an all-star PG.

But... even though it was hoped that Douby could fill a backup PG role this year (which he failed at), I don't recall the Kings ever saying when they drafted him that he was going to be their PG. I believe the term they used was 'combo guard.' As a combo guard, he still has promise. However, I think his lack of court vision is his most glaring weakness. A year ago I would have said it was his poor ballhandling. So maybe next year it will all come together and Douby will have something of a breakout year.

 

[bloom]

I don’t understand how people can write players off when we haven’t really seen them play. Douby hasn’t really had the time to develop on the court. He can sit and watch for years but not become NBA ready if he doesn’t see court time. In his rookie year he didn’t get to play and this year he’s barely seen the floor. I like this kid, he’s no point guard but I think he can develop into a player that’s awesome/fun to watch. Just give him time to play.

I do think that we could have drafted a PG at the time instead of Quincy, but maybe Geoff didn’t see anybody that he thought could be good for our team. I’m hoping we can keep him around for another year at least (if he’s able to get playing time) and see if he fits. I like him but I’m worried with some players ahead of him that he just won’t get time, unfortunately.

 

[netseee]

I don’t understand how people can write players off when we haven’t really seen them play. Douby hasn’t really had the time to develop on the court. He can sit and watch for years but not become NBA ready if he doesn’t see court time. In his rookie year he didn’t get to play and this year he’s barely seen the floor. I like this kid, he’s no point guard but I think he can develop into a player that’s awesome/fun to watch. Just give him time to play.

I do think that we could have drafted a PG at the time instead of Quincy, but maybe Geoff didn’t see anybody that he thought could be good for our team. I’m hoping we can keep him around for another year at least (if he’s able to get playing time) and see if he fits. I like him but I’m worried with some players ahead of him that he just won’t get time, unfortunately.

That's right, such as Sheldon Williams, if the coach does not let him play on the court enough, he can't develop to be a good PF

 

['89 Kings Fan]

What is most worrisome to me is Douby's seemingly lack of Basketball IQ. Basketball IQ is an impossible thing to measure but I would like to point out two plays that I think illustrate that Douby's problems are not talent, but mental.

1. At the Clippers game end of the 3rd quarter, Kaman had switched on Salmons and they were both way out on the wing in front of the Clippers bench. Salmons was calling for the ball, but Douby waited until 5 seconds on the shot clock and then let Dan Dickau poke it away resulting in no shot at the end of quarter.

2. The play at the end of the last game where Douby passed it to Spencer with 2 Seconds left on the shot clock. Grant had made mention several times how Douby seems to have no clock recognition.

Until he gets past the mental mistakes I can't see a coach leaving him in the game for very long.

 

[VF21]

What is most worrisome to me is Douby's seemingly lack of Basketball IQ. Basketball IQ is an impossible thing to measure but I would like to point out two plays that I think illustrate that Douby's problems are not talent, but mental.

1. At the Clippers game end of the 3rd quarter, Kaman had switched on Salmons and they were both way out on the wing in front of the Clippers bench. Salmons was calling for the ball, but Douby waited until 5 seconds on the shot clock and then let Dan Dickau poke it away resulting in no shot at the end of quarter.

2. The play at the end of the last game where Douby passed it to Spencer with 2 Seconds left on the shot clock. Grant had made mention several times how Douby seems to have no clock recognition.

Until he gets past the mental mistakes I can't see a coach leaving him in the game for very long.

Agreed.

Douby has also been called for not getting the ball up the court within 8 seconds and I'm pretty sure there are some other clock situations. I'm not sure, however, if it's a "basketball IQ" thing or a case where he simply doesn't have a running internal clock. Some people don't.

 

[upinsmoke]

Douby is always putting the defense at risk by trying to steal the ball in the passing lanes and almost never his hands on it. He is a fair one on one defender but is hard to match up against most teams.

 

[tyrant]

Agreed.

Douby has also been called for not getting the ball up the court within 8 seconds and I'm pretty sure there are some other clock situations. I'm not sure, however, if it's a "basketball IQ" thing or a case where he simply doesn't have a running internal clock. Some people don't.

I don't agree. thats just inexperience. doesnt have clock awareness right now. do yall even know what a basketball I.Q is? basketball iq is something on the lines of when to make a backdoor pass/timing/anticipation, looking at defenses' and attacking gaps making the defense adjust to you, what's the right decision to make during the pickpop, how to set the proper screen/how to roll off the proper screen/WHEN to roll off the screen, etc, etc. the more time quincy gets the better he'll get. just sounds like yall have a problem with his clock management.

there are alot of other problems besides that. like why are we running plays through mikki moore.