Clemens is guilty
- Thread starter AleksandarN
- Start date
The whole thing has become more than bizarre.
Kingfanpaul - Great? No, NONE of this is great. It's disgusting and it's terrible and it's not over yet.
As I've said above, I think they'll be looking long and hard at the "evidence"... Regardless of what happens, no one wins in this situation. If you're calling it "great," I have to believe you don't have a clue about what's really gone on.
Kingfanpaul - Great? No, NONE of this is great. It's disgusting and it's terrible and it's not over yet.
As I've said above, I think they'll be looking long and hard at the "evidence"... Regardless of what happens, no one wins in this situation. If you're calling it "great," I have to believe you don't have a clue about what's really gone on.
It's great because I dislike Roger. I know none of this is good for baseball but its too late now. Everyone already knows what was going on. If the cheaters just admit they cheated and let baseball try to overcome this it would be much easier but when you got fools like roger and barry bonds lying through thier teeth and making it an ugly situation it hurts baseball alot more. Since roger is lying just like barry is I think its great if there is some hard eveidence to prove them liars. I cant stand peeps like them. If everyone just sucked it up and admitted they did wrong like pettite and F.P. baseball could get through it much easier.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...e.apevidence.ap/index.html?eref=si_topstories
Lawyers say McNamee has physical evidence
NEW YORK (AP) -- Brian McNamee gave federal prosecutors syringes and other physical evidence his lawyers say back the personal trainer's allegations of drug use by Roger Clemens, who returns to Capitol Hill on Thursday in hopes of rebutting the accusations.
Clemens, who gave a deposition Tuesday, is scheduled to hold one-on-one meetings with members of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, two people familiar with the plans said, speaking on condition of anonymity because no announcement was made.
Among the members Clemens is to meet with is Rep. Tom Davis, the committee's ranking Republican, one of the people said. Committee chairman Henry Waxman is not scheduled to meet with Clemens.
McNamee is due to meet with committee staff Thursday morning to give his own deposition, and his legal team said it will bolster his story with details of the evidence.
His side turned over gauze pads and syringes they said had Clemens' blood to IRS Special Agent Jeff Novitzky in early January, a person familiar with the evidence said, speaking on condition of anonymity because McNamee's lawyers did not want to publicly discuss details. The syringes were used to inject Clemens with steroids and human growth hormone, the person said. A second person, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the evidence was from 2000 and 2001.
"I think this is a significant point in the case. We believe that this is significant corroboration," said McNamee's lead lawyer, Earl Ward.
Lanny Breuer, one of Clemens' lawyers, called McNamee's allegations "desperate smears" and said the trainer "apparently has manufactured evidence."
"It is just not credible," Breuer said in a statement. "Who in their right mind does such a thing?"
In December's Mitchell Report on doping in baseball, McNamee said he injected Clemens 16 times with performance-enhancing drugs in 1998, 2000 and 2001.
Richard Emery, another of McNamee's lawyers, said the committee will be given a description of the evidence that was turned over to prosecutors.
"It does change the nature of the case from a he-said, she-said to something about physical evidence," Emery said.
Doping expert Don Catlin said steroids still could be detected in a sample that old.
"But if you don't find it, it doesn't mean it wasn't there before," said Catlin, who added there are sure to be chain of custody issues...
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I think this article does an excellent job of pointing out some of the problems. Among them are the chain of custody issue and whether or not the syringes in question contain any steroid evidence.
At this point I think it's too early to tell.
Lawyers say McNamee has physical evidence
NEW YORK (AP) -- Brian McNamee gave federal prosecutors syringes and other physical evidence his lawyers say back the personal trainer's allegations of drug use by Roger Clemens, who returns to Capitol Hill on Thursday in hopes of rebutting the accusations.
Clemens, who gave a deposition Tuesday, is scheduled to hold one-on-one meetings with members of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, two people familiar with the plans said, speaking on condition of anonymity because no announcement was made.
Among the members Clemens is to meet with is Rep. Tom Davis, the committee's ranking Republican, one of the people said. Committee chairman Henry Waxman is not scheduled to meet with Clemens.
McNamee is due to meet with committee staff Thursday morning to give his own deposition, and his legal team said it will bolster his story with details of the evidence.
His side turned over gauze pads and syringes they said had Clemens' blood to IRS Special Agent Jeff Novitzky in early January, a person familiar with the evidence said, speaking on condition of anonymity because McNamee's lawyers did not want to publicly discuss details. The syringes were used to inject Clemens with steroids and human growth hormone, the person said. A second person, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the evidence was from 2000 and 2001.
"I think this is a significant point in the case. We believe that this is significant corroboration," said McNamee's lead lawyer, Earl Ward.
Lanny Breuer, one of Clemens' lawyers, called McNamee's allegations "desperate smears" and said the trainer "apparently has manufactured evidence."
"It is just not credible," Breuer said in a statement. "Who in their right mind does such a thing?"
In December's Mitchell Report on doping in baseball, McNamee said he injected Clemens 16 times with performance-enhancing drugs in 1998, 2000 and 2001.
Richard Emery, another of McNamee's lawyers, said the committee will be given a description of the evidence that was turned over to prosecutors.
"It does change the nature of the case from a he-said, she-said to something about physical evidence," Emery said.
Doping expert Don Catlin said steroids still could be detected in a sample that old.
"But if you don't find it, it doesn't mean it wasn't there before," said Catlin, who added there are sure to be chain of custody issues...
--------------------------------------------
I think this article does an excellent job of pointing out some of the problems. Among them are the chain of custody issue and whether or not the syringes in question contain any steroid evidence.
At this point I think it's too early to tell.
Sure it's pretty convincing from a fan's point of view (I was already pretty convinced anyway), but as long as Clemens has a plausible explanation then it's just one more piece on the pile and not necessarily solid proof. In this case, if Clemens already admitted being injected by McNamee with B-12, and he is accusing McNamee of fabricating the steroids part of the story, then it's not a stretch to say that McNamee added steroids to the syringes after the fact (or used them on other people).
That's entirely possible and it pretty much sums up what I've said around the water cooler at work. Syringes saved from B12 injections could easily have been tainted to make it look like steroids were used. I mean, the guy kept them for nearly ten years. How hard would it have been to take the old B12 syringes, shoot some HGH and steroids through them, turn them in with the bloody gauze from the B12 injections and call Clemens a cheat?
This sounds like a ploy to win the court of public opinion, which is much more damning to Clemens. Clemens said McNamee is liar, McNamee now says he has proof. This "proof" will get all the media heads talking and sway the audience one way or the other (depending on if you feel its ludicrous to have kept syringes for 10 years), but I highly doubt anything definitive is going to come out of this.
This sounds like a ploy to win the court of public opinion, which is much more damning to Clemens. Clemens said McNamee is liar, McNamee now says he has proof. This "proof" will get all the media heads talking and sway the audience one way or the other (depending on if you feel its ludicrous to have kept syringes for 10 years), but I highly doubt anything definitive is going to come out of this.
Clemens lawyers are saying in the press conference that McNamee supposedly had a date rape case against him in like 2001
. I don't see how anything he says is trustworthy. He's got a REALLY sketchy background, the evidence could be doctored, and there's some other stuff that just prove McNamee is not really trustworthy and since there's the possibility the evidence could be doctored it's still he said/she said IMO. And in a he said/she said type of situation I'm not trusting the guy who was accused of date rape
. I don't see how anything he says is trustworthy. He's got a REALLY sketchy background, the evidence could be doctored, and there's some other stuff that just prove McNamee is not really trustworthy and since there's the possibility the evidence could be doctored it's still he said/she said IMO. And in a he said/she said type of situation I'm not trusting the guy who was accused of date rape
And in a he said/she said type of situation I'm not trusting the guy who was accused of date rape
For me it all comes down to why would McNamee lie? Even if he is a horrible person, how likely is it that he tells the truth about Pettitte but makes up an elaborate story about Clemens and doctors evidence to prove that story? How likely is it that he does all that knowing that if those lies are exposed he has to go to jail? What incentive is there for him to take that risk?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3244837&sportCat=mlb
even one of Clemens friends ( Andy Pettitte)testified against him. Yet he still denies his wrong doings
even one of Clemens friends ( Andy Pettitte)testified against him. Yet he still denies his wrong doings
I think I have an answer about all this, or at least an opinion:
It is all about theater/drama. It has nothing to do with curbing the use of PEDs in the future. Taking-down and watching a big name suffer is sport. Most people find it more entertaining than watching MLB at this point. It is not much different from watching a lion maul a Christian in ancient Rome.
It is all absurd to me. I don't like to see it or hear it, but unless I choose to move the mountains of Montana and live in a shed like Ted Kazinski, I find it pretty hard to avoid. It is on every sports ticker, internet headline and radio.
I find how this thing is handled by the media and congress ( for the love of the almighty, congress?) far more disturbing than anything Roger may or may not have done. Furthermore, if Roger is lying about everything, it does not change my opinion about him at all. I just really don't care - never looked at him as a role model....just a great pitcher with an over-sized ego.
Somebody, please make it stop.
Note that Waxman mentioned how they really didn't want to have that hearing at all, the depositions were enough, but Clemens (and/or his legal team) insisted on the public hearing. I'm not sure Congress needs to be spending time on this at all, and I don't know why they thought they had to listen to Clemens on the matter, but I think they would have preferred to have left it with a handful of representatives and their assistants performing the depositions.
apparently the sports guy shares our viewpoint:
1. Given that we're dealing with Iraq, global warming, the subprime shakeout, the decline of the American dollar, the decline of the public-school system and every other troublesome reality in this country right now, it's hard to believe some of our most notable Congressmen didn't have a better way to spend this week than interrogating a disgraced Hall of Fame pitcher and the sad-sack Andy Dick lookalike who once trained him. I do not approve this usage of my tax dollars.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080214
1. Given that we're dealing with Iraq, global warming, the subprime shakeout, the decline of the American dollar, the decline of the public-school system and every other troublesome reality in this country right now, it's hard to believe some of our most notable Congressmen didn't have a better way to spend this week than interrogating a disgraced Hall of Fame pitcher and the sad-sack Andy Dick lookalike who once trained him. I do not approve this usage of my tax dollars.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080214