Would you.... (MEM/SAC)

[Bricklayer]

With the emergence of Salmons, Cisco, Beno. Is it time?

Would you:


Sacramento:
Kevin Martin $1.8mil
Mike Bibby $13.5
--------------------
$15.3mil

Memphis:
Pau Gasol $13.7mil
Mike Conley $3.4mil
---------------
$17.1mil


Memphis ends the Pau mess/struggle, cleans up their PG mess, gets a mega-runner for Iavaroni's run n' gun system, creates a potent Bibby/Martin/Gay/Miller 1/2/3 combo, and leaves the frontcourt to be sorted out by Warrick, Darko, Swift and then future picks. They also have the option of not resigning Bibby, thus shaving cap room. Or sign and trading. Or whatever.

We end up with:

C- Miller
PF- Gasol
SF- Artest
OG- Salmons
PG- Udrih

6th- OG/SF - Cisco
7th- PF/C - Mikki
8th- PG- Conley (#4 pick)
9th- C- Hawes (#10 pick)

10th- OG/SF- Jones
11th- PG/OG- Douby
12th- PF- Thomas

With potential C and PG of the future developing on the roster, and a big post player for Reggie to play with and good shotblocker at PF. And no, we still couldn't rebound. And no we would not contend. Might win 50 though in time, and trade two defensive liabilities, small for big, and get a little younger.

P.S. Note, that with both franchises semi-tagging the principals involved as their "franchise players", even though they aren't at that level, this likely remains speculation for pride/face saving reasons if nothing else.

 

[nbrans]

Gasol/Conley? No, I don't think so. Gasol is shaky, who knows about Conley. Gasol/Lowry? Now you might be talking. I'd consider that.

Also, I'm pretty sure this is all academic because with the extension Martin is a poison pill player for cap purposes and virtually impossible to trade. Not sure we'd want to anyway though. I like Salmons, but Artest is the guy you trade. Martin/Salmons/Cisco is the future. Gasol makes you think about it, but I'm not sure he's enough to give up Martin, even with Lowry.

 

[SLAB]

I still say trade Salmons while everyone is convinced he is more than an inconsistent 7/3/3 guy off the bench.

We have guys who are better than him, he's going to go back to the bench, he's going to sulk, and he's going to lose any sort of trade value he's gained as a starter.

Moving him should be priority number 1.

 

[Bricklayer]

Gasol/Conley? No, I don't think so. Gasol is shaky, who knows about Conley. Gasol/Lowry? Now you might be talking. I'd consider that.



Also, I'm pretty sure this is all academic because with the extension Martin is a poison pill player for cap purposes and virtually impossible to trade. Not sure we'd want to anyway though. I like Salmons, but Artest is the guy you trade. Martin/Salmons/Cisco is the future. Gasol makes you think about it, but I'm not sure he's enough to give up Martin, even with Lowry.

I like Lowry, but his high end may be solid backup PG. I was not entirely sold on Conley, but if you were doing this, it would have to be keyed around the idea of Conley being as good as some people think and develping into a good starter in the future. Gasol accompanied by a backup PG isn't worth two starters by himself.

 

[nbrans]

I like Lowry, but his high end may be solid backup PG. I was not entirely sold on Conley, but if you were doing this, it would have to be keyed around the idea of Conley being as good as some people think and develping into a good starter in the future. Gasol accompanied by a backup PG isn't worth two starters by himself.

But trading for Gasol is more of a win-now move, so if you're going to make the deal you go for the players who can help now even if their cieling isn't as high. Conley can't even beat out Lowry and the player formerly known as Damon Stoudemire and looked pretty bad in the summer. I still say who knows on him -- we'll see about that jump shot.

 

[Bricklayer]

But trading for Gasol is more of a win-now move, so if you're going to make the deal you go for the players who can help now even if their cieling isn't as high. Conley can't even beat out Lowry and the player formerly known as Damon Stoudemire and looked pretty bad in the summer. I still say who knows on him -- we'll see about that jump shot.

Well, I'm not sure how trading a 29yr old and a 25yr old for a 27yr old and a 19yr old is truly win now. Its more a have your cake and eat it too move -- 4 of your 5 starters are 25-28 (Beno, Salmons, Ron, Pau), and then you hope your two lottery picks can take over the PG and C spots in a couple of years while everybody else is still in their primes.

 

[bajaden]

Interesting trade idea. Pretty bold too. Martin is very popular. Trading him might cause a riot. Gasol is definitely better than anyone we have at the PF position. Conley, well, who knows. I liked him in college, but to be honest, I didn't expect him to come in an make a huge splash. He is only 19 yrs old and the pt position is one of the hardest to learn. As far as his shot goes, there have been a lot of players who wern't good shooters when they came into the league. Some still aren't great shooters ( aka Kidd ).
Yeah, I would do the trade. And then I would hide out for a while. As far as Martin's contract being a hinderance. That only applies if you have a player no one wants. If you were trading for Kobe, for instance, would you rather have him already signed to a long contract, or would you rather have to worry about resigning him at the end of the year?

 

[dude12]

I think its a feasible deal...but I do not like Gasol despite the skill set. When his current contract comes up, how much to resign him...his contract already is sky high. Lowry is not a starting PG in the NBA over the long haul. He does put up some gaudy numbers in games but I see his stature and.....I wouldn't mind having him but I also wouldn't want him in that deal. Hard telling where Conley is....I know it takes time for PG's to develop but I'm wondering why he's not getting more burn.

The one thing is that I'm not opposed to trading KMart if it would bring us a good big.....but Gasol strikes me as a guy who will be on lots of losing teams.

 

[VF21]

Would I trade Kevin Martin to Memphis? No. And I don't think the Maloofs or Petrie will do it, either.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Memphis trades their franchise player AND prized lotto pick? The plan over there is that Conley takes over in a year or two... not sure what the incentive is there. Sure, Martin is a star for now and the future, and Bibby is a good player who gives them cap relief, but it's a tough pill for Memphis to swallow.

 

[Gary]

I would totally trade Martin/Bibby for Gasol/Conley.

Miller has already proven this year he can play. Last 7 or so games he has put up about 20 a game and 9+ boards w/ 3.5 assists. I have a feeling Gasol is putting up those poor numbers because he is hating the situation in Memphis. Light a fire under him and he will be all-star level again.

Miller/Gasol front line is formidable, Artest/Salmons is a combo that I can live with, and Udrih at point until Conley learns the ropes is OK by me.. This turns us into a playoff team, and a FA signing from contention. Only problem is that Gasol isn't getting any younger, but he's not old by any stretch.

 

[DocHolliday]

I trade Kevin Martin under NO circumstances. Having Salmons and Martin on the same team is great. Salmons could be a 6th man of the year candidate. When your second team has some pieces within in that can be as good as your first team it only makes you stronger. We have the beginning of a bench mob with Cisco and Salmons.

 

[NikateeN]

I trade Kevin Martin under NO circumstances. Having Salmons and Martin on the same team is great. Salmons could be a 6th man of the year candidate. When your second team has some pieces within in that can be as good as your first team it only makes you stronger. We have the beginning of a bench mob with Cisco and Salmons.

I feel the same way, our bench is impressive this year no doubt and i would like to see our injured players come back so we can see what this team can do when they are 100 percent.

I hear a lot of people talking about trading Martin, but everybody is always talking about good draft picks, or trading for good players...thats what we have in Kevin, so why get rid of him? It doesnt make sense to me, everybody wants to rebuild, so why get rid of Kevin? If all doesnt work out just dump Bibby, or some of the other older guys, but if a rebuild if truly what you want then why not keep Martin? It just seems right to me.

 

[BritishColumbia]

I would do it but Memphis would NOT ...

 

[VF21]

I hear a lot of people talking about trading Martin...

I'm curious. Just how many are "a lot of people" and where are you hearing all these ideas about trading Kevin Martin?

 

[Bricklayer]

Having Salmons and Martin on the same team is great.

No, its really not.

Neither man can play off the bench. Salmons off the bench is just a guy (this year its 27.2min 9.7pts 4.3reb 2.1ast and that's the best he's ever done). And even if Salmons could, then Cisco is wasted (Cisco has been at least as good off the bench: 23.6min 11.3pts 3.3rebs 1.2ast). That's before we even get to the obvious ego problem now that Salmons has had a taste of being a major starter. You have to use the resources you have. Having swingmen stacked up *** deep to a tall indian doesn't do you any good without bigs.

This trade? Just a proposal utilizing a couple of superflorous pieces to fix our weakest (and oldest) positions. And using our highest value trade piece to get the best big likely to be on the market (we cannot get Jermaine because of Ron). Nobody else on the roster can get him.

P.S. As an aside:

Martin (17 starts):
24.5pts (.434 .398 .850) 4.9rebs 2.1ast 1.4stl 0.1blk

Salmons (17 starts):
19.1pts (.490 .545 .795) 4.9rebs 3.7ast 1.6stl 0.4blk

 

[NikateeN]

I'm curious. Just how many are "a lot of people" and where are you hearing all these ideas about trading Kevin Martin?

Ive seen a few threads on here about it in the last year or so, quite a few of the people i deal with at work, and i hear it a lot on 1140, i guess it seems like a lot of people to me because i just think its a bad idea.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

I actually have a preference for Lowry over Conley. There are flashes where he puts up near triple double type numbers--just think, he's already a gritty tough athletic defensive player, and he's already a very nice rebounder for PG, and he can slash, get to the line and hit free throws. If those are your top three qualities as a point guard, everything else--from shooting the basketball to passing it--will fall into place. He's shown some passing potential primarily on the drive and kick/drive and dish, and he has range. Can be a special type athletic poor man's Jason Kidd with less passing ability IMO.

Conley strikes me as an averagely athletic supreme passer with high basketball IQ. Will become a nice player, but I hold a preference for more athletic players, so I guess that's why I like Lowry more.

 

[VF21]

No, its really not.

Neither man can play off the bench. Salmons off the bench is just a guy (this year its 27.2min 9.7pts 4.3reb 2.1ast and that's the best he's ever done). And even if Salmons could, then Cisco is wasted (Cisco has been at least as good off the bench: 23.6min 11.3pts 3.3rebs 1.2ast). That's before we even get to the obvious ego problem now that Salmons has had a taste of being a major starter. You have to use the resources you have. Having swingmen stacked up *** deep to a tall indian doesn't do you any good without bigs.

This trade? Just a proposal utilizing a couple of superflorous pieces to fix our weakest (and oldest) positions. And using our highest value trade piece to get the best big likely to be on the market (we cannot get Jermaine because of Ron). Nobody else on the roster can get him.

P.S. As an aside:

Martin (17 starts):
24.5pts (.434 .398 .850) 4.9rebs 2.1ast 1.4stl 0.1blk

Salmons (17 starts):
19.1pts (.490 .545 .795) 4.9rebs 3.7ast 1.6stl 0.4blk

So now Kevin is superfluous? And to the guy you thought was a HORRIBLE acquisition?

Interesting...

 

[Glenn]

This is one of the few "gee, wouldn't this be cool" trade ideas that actually might be happening because it makes sense for both teams.

Always trade small for big. As great as Martin looks, it is far more easy to replace him (just look at our team) than to get a big guy (look at our team again). Anything else I might say has already been said.

 

[SacTownKid]

If we were to get trade for Pau I would rather keep Kevin, a Miller/Gasol frontcourt would great for him and get him twice as many easy baskets.

I'd do some sort of 3-way deal involving Ron and whatever else it took to get him here though.

 

[chrisnu]

I'd do it in a heartbeat. It improves the team, and Pau hasn't been a good fit in Iavaroni's system. They like to go small a lot of the time, and Bibby/Martin/Miller/Gay would be on the floor at the same time quite often. It does make Juan Carlos Navarro the odd man out, though.

 

[LA King Fan II]

Like it or not for those enamored with Martin and his ability to score...the team is no worse off without him right now. The 20 points he brought has been absolutely accounted for. Probably get a little more defense too in his absence.

I'd trade him in a minute if it could help the glaring weakness the team has had for years now.

 

[DocHolliday]

No, its really not.

Neither man can play off the bench. Salmons off the bench is just a guy (this year its 27.2min 9.7pts 4.3reb 2.1ast and that's the best he's ever done). And even if Salmons could, then Cisco is wasted (Cisco has been at least as good off the bench: 23.6min 11.3pts 3.3rebs 1.2ast). That's before we even get to the obvious ego problem now that Salmons has had a taste of being a major starter. You have to use the resources you have. Having swingmen stacked up *** deep to a tall indian doesn't do you any good without bigs.

This trade? Just a proposal utilizing a couple of superflorous pieces to fix our weakest (and oldest) positions. And using our highest value trade piece to get the best big likely to be on the market (we cannot get Jermaine because of Ron). Nobody else on the roster can get him.

P.S. As an aside:

Martin (17 starts):
24.5pts (.434 .398 .850) 4.9rebs 2.1ast 1.4stl 0.1blk

Salmons (17 starts):
19.1pts (.490 .545 .795) 4.9rebs 3.7ast 1.6stl 0.4blk

If you don't like having swingmen stacked up then get rid of Douby. He's worthless. He'll never be a true point guard, and he's too small to play his natural postion. Salmons has good size and can play and defend 1-3. That's a versatile piece. Douby can' really play any position.

So, if you want to get rid of swing man trade Douby. Salmons is inexpensive and useful.

 

[Glenn]

If you don't like having swingmen stacked up then get rid of Douby. He's worthless. He'll never be a true point guard, and he's too small to play his natural postion. Salmons has good size and can play and defend 1-3. That's a versatile piece. Douby can' really play any position.

So, if you want to get rid of swing man trade Douby. Salmons is inexpensive and useful.

Probably won't trade Douby 'cause no one would want him.

 

[Gary]

I'm curious. Just how many are "a lot of people" and where are you hearing all these ideas about trading Kevin Martin?

I would never come out and say "trade Martin", but at the same time while I have Salmons, and Martin on my short "no-trade" list I would have to trade him if this deal came around.

But I agree VF.. It's not like a lot of people came out and said to trade Martin.. I hope he is a fixture in the future, but you can't pass up a trade SG for Bigman.. Look what happened last time when we traded Richmond for Webber

 

[nbrans]

Have to emphasize again that until the end of the season Martin is a poison pill player, which means he's virtually impossible to trade, and next season he's BYC, making it a little bit more possible to trade but still really difficult. Just for basketball reasons he's exceedingly unlikely to be traded, but from a cap standpoint it's even more unlikely.

 

[BMiller52]

Like it or not for those enamored with Martin and his ability to score...the team is no worse off without him right now. The 20 points he brought has been absolutely accounted for. Probably get a little more defense too in his absence.

I'd trade him in a minute if it could help the glaring weakness the team has had for years now.

Lets trade Martin!!!!!111oneoneONE1!

 

[Bricklayer]

Have to emphasize again that until the end of the season Martin is a poison pill player, which means he's virtually impossible to trade, and next season he's BYC, making it a little bit more possible to trade but still really difficult. Just for basketball reasons he's exceedingly unlikely to be traded, but from a cap standpoint it's even more unlikely.

The Grizzlies have money issues, but before I suggested this I did my research: they could absorb such a trade, Kevin's increase included, and still be under the tax threshold next year (Pau and conley next year will earned a combined $18.7mil, Bibby, if back on the old contract, and Kevin in the first year of his new one (think it was $10mil) will be at $24.5mil -- difference of $6mil, and the Grizzlies only have $57mil committed next season, even if Bibby came back, and ignoring other trades etc.). That's without accounting for the possible reduction or elimination of the Bibby money. I don't throw these things out there without those angles covered, or at least investigated. Memphis' willingness to spend the money, even if beneath the cap, is something else. But then again, maybe it puts butts in the seats and helps as much as hurts.

 

[Superman]

This is one of the few "gee, wouldn't this be cool" trade ideas that actually might be happening because it makes sense for both teams.

Always trade small for big. As great as Martin looks, it is far more easy to replace him (just look at our team) than to get a big guy (look at our team again). Anything else I might say has already been said.

I agree.

I would assume that most would dismiss this idea entirely, along with any similar ideas, simply because it involves trading our best young player. But if it winds up making us better now and possibly in the future (I think our lineup post-trade would be significantly better than it is pre-trade, especially when you consider that Martin is on the bench right now and we're playing our best ball of the short season), then you have to consider it.

I don't think I'm sold on Conley, even though he's still a newbie and hasn't really had a chance to show anything one way or the other. But if he doesn't turn into a starting-caliber point guard, then the trade winds up being essentially Gasol for Martin, which I wouldn't do. I'm not that impressed with Gasol, and never have been.

If we could turn this into Miller for Gasol (plus incentives and fillers for each team) and have Beno, Martin, Salmons/Artest, Gasol and Hawes, then that's a young team with great upside that a lot of fans would enjoy watching. Artest and Bibby are still moveable for young players and picks, and we could lower our cap number for the next two seasons and have a young core to move forward with.