Preseason musings on the Kings at SI.com

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#1
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/specials/preview/2007/scouting.reports/kings.html

An odd choice of coaches won't stop the slide of this once-proud franchise

With the hiring of Reggie Theus as coach, the owners of the Kings -- also known as the owners of the Palms Casino Resort -- seem to be moving the franchise closer to Las Vegas, in a figurative if not literal sense, and not just because Theus is a UNLV product. During 13 seasons as a big guard with six NBA teams, he demonstrated a Vegas-style flash and dash on and off the court: trash-talking and fancy-passing, fur-wearing and club-hopping.

So what did Theus do after the Maloof brothers, Gavin and Joe, lured him from New Mexico State? He went all Bob Knight. "I'm not trying to be a jerk," Theus told The Sacramento Bee. "All I want to do is set some parameters. The players know they were irresponsible last year."

Theus banned cellphone use from the team bus, which is tantamount to banning, say, oxygen from the lives of these young millionaires. He instituted a curfew on the road. He ran his players' tails off in practice while openly questioning their defensive effort from past seasons, particularly that of Mike Bibby.

Theus says that as a player he most respected the coaches who were toughest on him, and he conjured up San Antonio's Gregg Popovich and Utah's Jerry Sloan as guys who have gotten it done the old-school way. Whether veterans such as Bibby and Ron Artest want tough love from their coach remains to be seen. So far Artest has bought into the rules and regs -- he calls them "very reasonable," though he expects the coach to also be "flexible" (the volcanic Artest's definition of flexible perhaps being more flexible than most's) -- but Artest's history suggests at least one revolt before the season is over. And Bibby, when upset, is capable of playing 82 games in a permanent sulk.

Changes were needed at Arco Arena to be sure, but the ol' Vegas guard is rolling the dice with this one. -- Jack McCallum

Issue date: October 29, 2007

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/specials/preview/2007/enemy.lines/kings.html

An opposing team's scout sizes up the Kings

They were trying to trade Mike Bibby last year, and I can see why. It isn't going to work between him and Ron Artest. They don't play well together. I'm sure they'll talk about how well they get along, but when they're on the court, neither one seems to want to help the other. When one of them holds the ball too long or misses a shot, you often see a reaction from the other -- you'll see Bibby rolling his eyes. It's not like they're at war -- it's not Kobe vs. Shaq -- but it's not good chemistry either ...

You can say that Artest just needs to play for the right coach, but I wonder if that coach has been born yet. There's going to be talk of him opting out [after this season], but he shouldn't unless he has a terrific year and stays out of trouble. Another question is whether his agent will give him the right information and provide a realistic appraisal of his options if he does become a free agent ...

Artest still has all of the tools, though he's become a different type of player than he was at Indiana. He gained so much weight when he wasn't allowed to play that he became more of a power forward physically. Even if he has lost some of the weight, his strength isn't his quickness; his strength is his strength. Even when he was slimmer, he wouldn't blow by guys. At best, he would get even with them and then use his strength on them. He would be a good complement to Brad Miller at center because Miller is better out high and facing up. Plus, you see more and more teams going smaller at power forward, which would increase Artest's advantage in the block ...

Bibby started last season with an injury to his shooting hand and it probably affected his shooting all year. If Bibby were traded to Cleveland or another good team where he could be the No. 2 or No. 3 player, he would be a great addition. When he first came to Sacramento, he was always a secondary star behind Chris Webber and Peja Stojakovic. Now that those guys are gone, should Bibby be the star? It's clear he's not quite good enough to be that guy. But with another team, he might be the guy who puts them over the top so long as he's not being asked to create. Just bring it up, get them into their offense and then spot up for jumpers and he'll be terrific. He can play several more years at his level because he's never been an athletic guy anyway, so age shouldn't have a big effect on his game. His deficiency is that he's a poor defender, but he's a smart player and on a good team he can use his head to fit into a team defensive concept that can hide him a bit ...

Of course, the problem with getting rid of Bibby is that they have no point guard to replace him ...

I wonder if Shareef Abdur-Rahim can get it done physically anymore. There were so many times last year when he had no lift. Maybe he'll return in better health after surgery to clean out his right knee, but I know people in Sacramento who say that he has to use a railing to get down the stairs, that's how much he was hurting last year. I give him credit for giving the effort, but he's another reason why Artest could help them at power forward ...

Another reason is Kenny Thomas, who is undersized and an offensive liability at power forward. He's a good rebounder, but he just isn't big enough to consistently defend the position ...

I think their problems at power forward helped lead to a disappointing year for Miller. But he was also hurting last year with plantar fasciitis, and there were a lot of nights when he just didn't look like himself. But he's too young and skilled to be deteriorating, and if he's healthy, I wouldn't be surprised to see him bounce back. Again, it would help if he had a better partner on the front line ...

I didn't understand the signing of Mikki Moore, who gives them a third backup at power forward. He's a nice player, but he doesn't address their issues for somebody to block shots and/or score inside as a complement to Miller ...

Rookie center Spencer Hawes missed training camp [with a knee injury] and is so young that it will take him a while to adapt ...

Kevin Martin had a breakout year, but you know what bothers me about him? He is a terrible defender. I just don't get it because he has the athleticism to be good down there. I wonder if he's a young guy who is getting caught up in whatever is going on between Artest and Bibby. He could be similar to Tayshaun Prince: He's long with great feet and he should be able to break up the passing lanes and take charges, though he won't be a shot-blocker like Tayshaun. At the other end, he has an ugly shot like Tayshaun, with his elbow hanging out. But he makes shots and has a great knack for getting to the rim and getting fouled. If Artest was a reliable guy -- a huge if, believe me -- he could be their No. 1 guy and Martin would be perfect as their No. 2 star as well as their best offensive player ...

John Salmons is a selfless guy who does a lot of the little things. He makes the right pass and tries to guard his man, though he isn't the greatest defender. He's an excellent rotation guy who would find minutes on any team. He's a decent scorer who needs to become more consistent from the three-point line ...

Francisco Garcia is another good guy for their rotation who brings energy and effort on defense as well as shooting range, but he can't put the ball on the floor nearly as well as Martin. Quincy Douby could turn out to be a version of Eddie House with deeper range but a slower release. At his size [6-foot-3, 175 pounds], I'm sure they'd like him to become a point guard, but I have my doubts there. He's a crafty guy, but he lacks the quick first step that you get from Martin ...

Reggie Theus is a complete mystery as coach. I was totally shocked that Geoff Petrie would hire him, but maybe the thinking is that they're a long way from contending so what's the difference? ...

They have a lot of nice players, but most of them are backups. Depending on what they do with Bibby and what becomes of Artest, they could get back into playoff contention in a year or two, or they may have to tear out most of the roster and start over.
 
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#4
I agree with most of the scout's take other than the Douby part. I see Douby as more of a Bobby Jackson than Eddie House. Douby's a better scorer and defender than House but not as good a passer or creater. I would say that Douby's ultimate ceiling would be Gilbert Arenas, their games are pretty identical...but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Everything else is exactly right, I've been saying for awhile that Artest would be a perfect fit at PF. How many times have we seen Artest play PF and that got us back in the game...plenty.

Finally I agree that Bibby would be best to accept the role as 3rd scorer behind Artest and Martin, but it won't happen. That's one of the biggest problems of this team now that was a strength in the past...there are no defined roles and nobody is happy with where they're at.
 

VF21

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#5
I'm not impressed with Jack McCallum's comments. The scouting report, on the other hand, is interesting - although, of course, from a homer fan point of view, I disagree to some extent with parts of it. One part that really bugs me is this continual belief that something is going on between Artest and Bibby. That's been touted by the media but, to my knowledge, has never really been in evidence.
 
#6
I'm not impressed with Jack McCallum's comments. The scouting report, on the other hand, is interesting - although, of course, from a homer fan point of view, I disagree to some extent with parts of it. One part that really bugs me is this continual belief that something is going on between Artest and Bibby. That's been touted by the media but, to my knowledge, has never really been in evidence.
I think the issue between Bibby and Artest has been misinterpreted. I don't believe there is any kind of fued between them, I don't even believe that they dislike each other in any amount. It is simply a chemistry issue, again it's about guys defining a role and accepting it. They both want to lead and you can't have two leaders. They both have different visions for how this team should be and their styles of play don't complement each others well on the court.

Think about Bibby and Webber, both guys with passion, both guys who want to lead, and both guys with large egos. However their games molded well together on the court and remember that Bibby came here later, Webber was already the leader. There was no dispute who's team this was. Well now Bibby was the holdover and self-appointed leader and Artest was the guy who came in and now he wants that spot, you have to believe it is an issue.
 
#7
The scouting report, on the other hand, is interesting - although, of course, from a homer fan point of view, I disagree to some extent with parts of it. One part that really bugs me is this continual belief that something is going on between Artest and Bibby. .
Do take into account that (assuming CNNSi isn't lying about this) these are the observations of an actual advanced scout of an opposing team. This is the type of information he's going to give the team he scouts for when the Kings come up on the schedule.

I'm sure the actual reports are far more detailed, but if he thinks Kevin Martin is a terrible defender, he's going to suggest to his team that they go at him. His word isn't the gospel, but the guy is pretty much paid to study the tendencies of other teams.

That's all assuming this really is info from a real advanced scout and not some story made up by CNNsi.
 

VF21

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#8
I prefer to listen to REAL people instead of unnamed "advanced scouts" who may or may not actually know what they're talking about as far as group dynamics go. As I said, my main complaint is the alleged problem between Artest and Bibby, which I honestly do not think exists...at least no to the extent they're trying to have us believe.

A scout saying Martin prefers to go to his left when he cuts is one thing; that's indisputable and of value. But when you start delving into group dynamics I have to question it - especially after what I've seen during the pre-season games. If the scout was basing his opinion on last year, then I fall back on the "Dallas dream sequence" comment. NOTHING should be taken for granted if it happened only last year.
 
#9
I prefer to listen to REAL people instead of unnamed "advanced scouts" who may or may not actually know what they're talking about as far as group dynamics go. As I said, my main complaint is the alleged problem between Artest and Bibby, which I honestly do not think exists...at least no to the extent they're trying to have us believe.

A scout saying Martin prefers to go to his left when he cuts is one thing; that's indisputable and of value. But when you start delving into group dynamics I have to question it - especially after what I've seen during the pre-season games. If the scout was basing his opinion on last year, then I fall back on the "Dallas dream sequence" comment. NOTHING should be taken for granted if it happened only last year.
If an advanced scout doesn't know what he's talking about when scouting an opposing team, he's going to be fired because it's his job to know.
There are no two ways about it.

An advanced scout is not a "prospect scout". Teams have seperate prospect scouts specifically to look for HS, college and international players that they can possibly draft or sign. These guys don't care about the actual game they're watching. They're just looking at a particular player they've been assigned to scout and really aren't paying attention to the score and circumstances of the game. They could care less whether or not the scouted team's player wins or loses.

An advanced scout's job is not to look at a particular player. They go to the games IN PERSON to scout the entire team in question. They have to look at an entire team and relay this info to the team they work for before the next game. They look for several things: What type of plays does a team run when they really need a bucket? What are the defensive rotations like? What are the substitution patterns? How does the team react when the other team goes small agaisnt them, etc....They look at very specific things.

These guys look at how a team functions as a whole and what they do under different circumstances. Their job is to prepare their own team for a future opponent. That's why they're called "Advanced Scouts". It's to give their own team information in Advance. It's a bit of a mis-nomer since being an "advanced scout" has nothing to do with their level of ability. This type of scout and the types that look for draft prospects are two totally different jobs assigned to different people.
 
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VF21

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#10
I know full well what an advance scout is. My main objection is that this information could easily be based ON LAST SEASON. Not that it matter anymore anyway. Bibby may not even be back on the court until early 2008.
 
#11
I'm not impressed with Jack McCallum's comments. The scouting report, on the other hand, is interesting - although, of course, from a homer fan point of view, I disagree to some extent with parts of it. One part that really bugs me is this continual belief that something is going on between Artest and Bibby. That's been touted by the media but, to my knowledge, has never really been in evidence.
I agree with you. It is just a media thing. However, one game sticks out in my mind last year (against the Clips I think?) where the Kings were down 2 or 3 and Artest totally ignored a wide-open Bibby in order to take the potential game-winner himself, even though it was well contested.
 

VF21

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#12
That doesn't mean there's trouble between the two. All it means is Artest thought he could win the game. He was wrong.
 
#13
I know full well what an advance scout is. My main objection is that this information could easily be based ON LAST SEASON. Not that it matter anymore anyway. Bibby may not even be back on the court until early 2008.
Then why bother making season predictions at all, not just for the Kings, but for any team in the league? It's not as if pre-season is an accurate indicator of the upcoming performance, either.

Last season is about the closest assessment you can make of the current roster. Unless there is a complete overhaul of the entire roster or you somehow expect a player to make a quantum leap in progress (or regression), I think the prior year is a fair way to analyze certain aspects of a team.
 
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#14
I've always thought of Douby's upside as a less trigger happy Cuttino Mobley -- in playing style, size and freakishly long wingspan.
 

VF21

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#15
Then why bother making season predictions at all, not just for the Kings, but for any team in the league? It's not as if pre-season is an accurate indicator of the upcoming performance, either.

Last season is about the closest assessment you can make of the current roster. Unless there is a complete overhaul of the entire roster or you somehow expect a player to make a quantum leap in progress (or regression), I think the prior year is a fair way to certain aspects of a team.
I'm not talking about basing performance predictions on a prior season. I'm talking about making comments about perceived problems between Artest and Bibby. If the "advance scout" has seen anything during this pre-season then he's about the only one...