Voisin: Brown Interested in Kings Job (merged)
- Thread starter Rockmeister
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So you have a bunch of self-centered cutters/slashers, and dunkers getting schooled by international jumpshooters. All LB's fault that we didn't bring our best shooters.
Again, the international game is changing, and the competition is getting thicker. How many international players were drafted between 2002-2006 versus how many were drafted between 1998-2002.
Again, the international game is changing, and the competition is getting thicker. How many international players were drafted between 2002-2006 versus how many were drafted between 1998-2002.
I don't know if "feverishly" is the right word. It looks to me more like she called Brown considering there's no actual Kings news to report and he's the biggest name in NBA coaching who's not currently employed, and then rushed to release the news of his interest before she had the article written. The quotes in all of the articles are the same so they probably all came from the one phone interview, with the "news" getting shared amongst several sources over a couple of days before the actual article was released. Basically one article has turned into a flurry of news with ESPN even getting in on the action so they can break the news too.
If you have a bunch of cutters/slashers/dunkers then you should be cutting, slashing, dunking. You have a bunch of self-centered individuals, and you expect to change them in a few weeks. LB talks about how he doesn't want NY to be the last thing people remember him for, but he should be more worried about his hack job in the Olympics. That one has long lasting impact.
First I don't think it is fair to talk aobut what LB does or does not do with out first identifying WHICH LB your talking about. The young college coach who stressed fundementals but had no problms with crossing ehical lines to ge the players he wanted? Or the middle aged LB who dabbled in the NBA wining games developing some players while aliening others but ulimalty never really got it? Or the ageing Brown who inherited the squad Dumars built and Carslie traind and took them to the title against the imploding Lakers? Or are we talking about the very very senior Brown who after winning in 2003 prety much decided to cash in and call in his coaching leading Team US to chaos and NY beyond? No one in NY got "developed" Most of the guys in Detroit were allready defensive players under RC and in 03 Dumars dumped Stack for Rip to compleet the defensive mindset that he (Dumars) wanted.
I give Brown props his knowlage of the game and successes, but I have to callit like I see it... The guy has shown NO desire or even ablity to develop young teams since leaving Indy. So now folks are saying that at 67 he might have some of that old spark left in him, well if so it has been dormant for some time. Bu again my MAIN POINT is that I do not see Senior Citizen Hit and Run Larry as ready, willing and able to rebuild a team on a 2-3 year plan.
I give Brown props his knowlage of the game and successes, but I have to callit like I see it... The guy has shown NO desire or even ablity to develop young teams since leaving Indy. So now folks are saying that at 67 he might have some of that old spark left in him, well if so it has been dormant for some time. Bu again my MAIN POINT is that I do not see Senior Citizen Hit and Run Larry as ready, willing and able to rebuild a team on a 2-3 year plan.
Exactly. I think he's like the old race-horse who gazes longingly at the track, remembering past glory and wanting desperately to run again but not really remembering why. I don't think he could relate in any way, shape or form to today's young players and I firmly believe it could be disastrous all the way around.
I've said it in other threads but there were a lot of coaching openings this season and the only team that even talked at all to Brown was reportedly Memphis, and I have to believe they were just killing time until Iavaroni was available.
LB needs to remain out in the pasture.
I've said it in other threads but there were a lot of coaching openings this season and the only team that even talked at all to Brown was reportedly Memphis, and I have to believe they were just killing time until Iavaroni was available.
LB needs to remain out in the pasture.
I agree with the first part, but not necessarily with the second.
We need a coach that can make something out of the mixed bag of talent we have (or, more precisely, *will* have at the start of the season, whatever that is).
What good is a coach that can do it (and has proven so) that leaves a battered franchise in the rear-view mirror as he's laughing himself to the bank with his millions after getting fired yet again?
The risk of damage to the franchise is too great with Larry Brown.
We need a coach that can make something out of the mixed bag of talent we have (or, more precisely, *will* have at the start of the season, whatever that is).
What good is a coach that can do it (and has proven so) that leaves a battered franchise in the rear-view mirror as he's laughing himself to the bank with his millions after getting fired yet again?
The risk of damage to the franchise is too great with Larry Brown.
1. I didn't say anything about him becoming friends with the players. And the little dig about the DUI was misleading and, IMHO, totally irrelevant.
2. You're talking about the Larry Brown, the college coach. That guy hasn't been around in a LONG time.
What I saw in New York and with the Olympics squad was that Larry Brown simply cannot get the young players to buy into whatever he's selling. And I suspect a good deal of that problem stems from his own ego and need to be blindly followed. And regardless of whether that's right or wrong, one of the main reasons coaches don't do well is a lack of ability to interact with the team and get them to accept that what you want them to do is for their good as well as the good of the team.
Look at his comments. It's all about Larry Brown's need to rehab his reputation. I honestly do not believe he would be happy here and if Brown ain't happy, he simply finds a way to get out of the situation. He's said he wouldn't relocate his family to Sacramento. That's already building in a convenient excuse should things not go the way he envisions.
You can disagree, which is fine, but please could you do so without resorting to twisting my words or bringing in things that clearly aren't relative to the topic at hand?
Thanks.
2. You're talking about the Larry Brown, the college coach. That guy hasn't been around in a LONG time.
What I saw in New York and with the Olympics squad was that Larry Brown simply cannot get the young players to buy into whatever he's selling. And I suspect a good deal of that problem stems from his own ego and need to be blindly followed. And regardless of whether that's right or wrong, one of the main reasons coaches don't do well is a lack of ability to interact with the team and get them to accept that what you want them to do is for their good as well as the good of the team.
Look at his comments. It's all about Larry Brown's need to rehab his reputation. I honestly do not believe he would be happy here and if Brown ain't happy, he simply finds a way to get out of the situation. He's said he wouldn't relocate his family to Sacramento. That's already building in a convenient excuse should things not go the way he envisions.
You can disagree, which is fine, but please could you do so without resorting to twisting my words or bringing in things that clearly aren't relative to the topic at hand?
Thanks.
In addition to VF's post above yours, consider:
1. Team quitting on coach
2. Coach quitting on team
3. 40+ starting lineups confuse team even more on roles than Muss was capable of doing
4. Brown getting "fired" after one year making a *lot* more than Muss was
5. Players start demanding to be traded
6. Fans tune out (even more than they did last year) with the constant fighting between players and coach
for starters, anyways.
This is all conjecture, as we really have no idea whether this would happen or not. Given the rancor with which he left his last two jobs (fired from both because of friction with the players), I would think this would be a safe bet.
Then again, I have been wrong before.
1. Team quitting on coach
2. Coach quitting on team
3. 40+ starting lineups confuse team even more on roles than Muss was capable of doing
4. Brown getting "fired" after one year making a *lot* more than Muss was
5. Players start demanding to be traded
6. Fans tune out (even more than they did last year) with the constant fighting between players and coach
for starters, anyways.
This is all conjecture, as we really have no idea whether this would happen or not. Given the rancor with which he left his last two jobs (fired from both because of friction with the players), I would think this would be a safe bet.
Then again, I have been wrong before.
You were talking about the coach relating to youth. So I tried to come up with an example of relating to youngsters. Like going out and buying them beers. I brought the DUI into it to rip on Muss, who also happens to be a clear example of someone that could relate to the youngsters, yet couldn't do a lick coaching wise. He didn't get us a top 5 draft pick and he didn't take us to the playoffs.
So bring in another young coach that can relate to the kids. And see how it turns out. Just don't complain when it turns into Eric Muss version 2.
In the world of "what have you done for me lately" you have great points. The olympics and New York were obvious failures. But again you fail to recognize that they were both not entirely Larry's fault. If you don't like some of his actions, fine. But don't blame the entire debocale in New York and the entire debocale in the olympics on him.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe the youngsters in New York didn't buy into Larry's system because the vets didn't buy in? Don't you realize there is a chance that the kids just wanted to follow the vets? The fact is that the players are paid good money to do what the coach wants. I remember before Detroit won the title, there were many players thinking, is this really going to work? Sometimes the end does justify the means.
VF, what exactly do you think "rehabilitating his reputation" means exactly? Because to me, rehabing his rep. means winning games and playing good, team oriented, tough defense, basketball. So as I said before, if he wants to rehab his rep by helping us, then by all means, let him do it.
Of all the damage you "think" Larry would do here, how does any of that coincide with rehabbing his reputation?
I do question why he wouldn't move his family here, but I won't presume what that reason is. And I won't shape that presumption to fit my agenda.
Team quitting on coach? Like last year? The players are paid good money to do what the coach wants.
Coach quit on team. If you had a bunch of overpaid, overhyped players who weren't even trying to do what you wanted, then wouldn't you quit too? It must be Larry's fault that Stephon Marbury just wanted to run down the floor and jack up the quickest shot possible.
Changing the starting lineups would've been a blessing in disguise for us last year. I had more fun watching Justin Williams, Ronnie Price, Quincy Douby and others last year instead of watching the same decrepit starting lineup.
And we actually won some games that way.
Brown getting fired after 1 year. You mean like Muss? But he made more money. And that concerns you how? It isn't your money. It doesn't affect our cap space. So why do you care how much comes out of the Maloofs giant bank account?
Players demanding trades is only good for us too. It gives us extra pretext to get rid of them.
Fans tune out? Like last year? The fickle fans will do what they will and the rest of us will still be here. You know this.
If this is your start you had better have a Grand Finale because I'm just not seeing the potential "damage" as you are.
Coach quit on team. If you had a bunch of overpaid, overhyped players who weren't even trying to do what you wanted, then wouldn't you quit too? It must be Larry's fault that Stephon Marbury just wanted to run down the floor and jack up the quickest shot possible.
Changing the starting lineups would've been a blessing in disguise for us last year. I had more fun watching Justin Williams, Ronnie Price, Quincy Douby and others last year instead of watching the same decrepit starting lineup.
And we actually won some games that way.
Brown getting fired after 1 year. You mean like Muss? But he made more money. And that concerns you how? It isn't your money. It doesn't affect our cap space. So why do you care how much comes out of the Maloofs giant bank account?
Players demanding trades is only good for us too. It gives us extra pretext to get rid of them.
Fans tune out? Like last year? The fickle fans will do what they will and the rest of us will still be here. You know this.
If this is your start you had better have a Grand Finale because I'm just not seeing the potential "damage" as you are.
bringing in a young coach can be a hit or a miss. you may end up with musselman, you may end up with avery johnson.
yeah, brown wants to rehab his reputation, and you do that by winning, but is he going to? i don't think he walked into new york saying "i'm totally going to **** up this franchise." what happens when our players quit on him? same thing as what happened when they quit on musselman, at a much larger scale, for a much higher price tag.
yeah, brown wants to rehab his reputation, and you do that by winning, but is he going to? i don't think he walked into new york saying "i'm totally going to **** up this franchise." what happens when our players quit on him? same thing as what happened when they quit on musselman, at a much larger scale, for a much higher price tag.
wow.
1 & 2) you're saying, regardless of the culprit, that you would welcome the media debacle and drama that came from NY when brown was there? cuz i sure as hell don't.
3) it'd be super to see justin in the starting line up! except next itme he won't. but then he might be the time after. or maybe two games after if it's a lunar eclipse out.
4) here's how affecting the maloof's bottom line works out: if they take an even bigger hit, they will draw the purse strings for players even more.
5) awesome, our players want to get traded! now, since everyone knows that, let's go sell them for ten cents on the dollar.
6) being a stalwart fan is all well and good (don't throw your arm out patting yourself on the back) but unless you plan on supporting the franchise in terms of spending your money all by yourself, you need some of those "fickle" fans. their money is just as good as yours.
1 & 2) you're saying, regardless of the culprit, that you would welcome the media debacle and drama that came from NY when brown was there? cuz i sure as hell don't.
3) it'd be super to see justin in the starting line up! except next itme he won't. but then he might be the time after. or maybe two games after if it's a lunar eclipse out.
4) here's how affecting the maloof's bottom line works out: if they take an even bigger hit, they will draw the purse strings for players even more.
5) awesome, our players want to get traded! now, since everyone knows that, let's go sell them for ten cents on the dollar.
6) being a stalwart fan is all well and good (don't throw your arm out patting yourself on the back) but unless you plan on supporting the franchise in terms of spending your money all by yourself, you need some of those "fickle" fans. their money is just as good as yours.
Very good point. And I 100% agree. I just think that we should hold off on bringing in a young coach until we can clear up some of the bigger contracts. As I stated earlier, once we clear up some room in our frontcourt, then fire Brown's arse and hire a young coach.
I think he walked into New York thinking, wow, these guys are going to pay me a lot of money to make a team out of their players. And when no one listened he just gave up.
What happens when our players quit on him? We get to see Justin, Quincy and Ronnie all day! Hey, isn't that what we want if we are rebuilding?
And how does anyone know what will happen with our players? Maybe our players will think, hey if I don't buy into what this old man is selling, then I am wasting my career. The average player in New York was making so much money that maybe they really didn't care.
And the price tag again. Why do you care?
I think he walked into New York thinking, wow, these guys are going to pay me a lot of money to make a team out of their players. And when no one listened he just gave up.
What happens when our players quit on him? We get to see Justin, Quincy and Ronnie all day! Hey, isn't that what we want if we are rebuilding?
And how does anyone know what will happen with our players? Maybe our players will think, hey if I don't buy into what this old man is selling, then I am wasting my career. The average player in New York was making so much money that maybe they really didn't care.
And the price tag again. Why do you care?
Don Nelson isn't exactly youth personified. Neither was Pete Carrill, but the guy sure helped Martin. Larry Brown has said that he would be interested in the Kings. He acknowledges they are rebuilding. Rebuilding implies youth. Larry Brown's age has nothing to do with his ability to coach a young man on how to play the game, just as Carrill's age was no detriment to him teaching young King's players. And really, if there is any doubt of whether he's ok with coaching a youth movement all they have to do is ask him. This is the same theme as the financial concern - How are they going to pay him? - when all you have to do is talk to the guy to figure out if it would work.
1. As if the New York media was comparable in the least to the Sacramento media. The media and drama are for the fans, not the players. So as long as it doesn't affect their play then who cares? Suggesting that the media reaction in Sac would be the same as NY is silly.
2. So with all of the moving of players in and out of the starting lineup in New York, was it the same in Detroit? Or Philly? Or is it just that the players in New York didn't do what he wanted so he'd put someone else in until they didn't do what he wanted so he'd...you get the point. I don't remember players getting subbed in and out like that when he coached in Detroit. Maybe that's because everyone did what he wanted.
3. We are in rebuilding mode. So the Maloofs tightening the purse for players makes sense right now. We need cheap, young, moldable talent more than we need expensive vets.
4. At this point it seems like our vets are worth cents on the dollar. The only thing is they haven't requested trades yet because they know there is no point. Most of these players are likely to be traded or released anyway sooner or later so what is the difference. However, if Larry does work out then they will have increased value and can be traded, as I have been suggesting was my bottom line anyway.
5. So tell me where that money came from when Arco was struggling to get filled last year under Muss? I wonder what the odds are on a young coach coming into the league and being successful. If we knew, we could compare them to the odds that Larry Brown goes NY on us. Alas, there are no odds so we are both just speculating. But there is a chance that all of those bad things happen under an unknown coach too. So I'd rather put my money on LB genuinely wanting to do good.
2. So with all of the moving of players in and out of the starting lineup in New York, was it the same in Detroit? Or Philly? Or is it just that the players in New York didn't do what he wanted so he'd put someone else in until they didn't do what he wanted so he'd...you get the point. I don't remember players getting subbed in and out like that when he coached in Detroit. Maybe that's because everyone did what he wanted.
3. We are in rebuilding mode. So the Maloofs tightening the purse for players makes sense right now. We need cheap, young, moldable talent more than we need expensive vets.
4. At this point it seems like our vets are worth cents on the dollar. The only thing is they haven't requested trades yet because they know there is no point. Most of these players are likely to be traded or released anyway sooner or later so what is the difference. However, if Larry does work out then they will have increased value and can be traded, as I have been suggesting was my bottom line anyway.
5. So tell me where that money came from when Arco was struggling to get filled last year under Muss? I wonder what the odds are on a young coach coming into the league and being successful. If we knew, we could compare them to the odds that Larry Brown goes NY on us. Alas, there are no odds so we are both just speculating. But there is a chance that all of those bad things happen under an unknown coach too. So I'd rather put my money on LB genuinely wanting to do good.
Actually Larry can and will push for all of the above, then change his mind the next day. He will also frracture and split, spoil and posion, because its what he does and who he is. Best way to acheive power is to drive wedges into the exisiting power structure. Set people at each other's throats. Then comes the sickeningly passive aggressive him or me stuff. Then the whining to the media about how he is misunderstood, and then the gracious offers to go away if he's not wanted for the low low price of the entire remainder of his contract.
And by the end everyone is tired, everyone is exhausted, and nobody wants or cares about anything anymore beyond getting rid of the raging cancer you have imported as your coach. Certainly winning, building, rebuilding, all of these concerns take a back seat while the old drama queen prances around the stage. If you are lucky you only lose prestige and fans, and not your GM, free agents, Kevin etc.
And by the end everyone is tired, everyone is exhausted, and nobody wants or cares about anything anymore beyond getting rid of the raging cancer you have imported as your coach. Certainly winning, building, rebuilding, all of these concerns take a back seat while the old drama queen prances around the stage. If you are lucky you only lose prestige and fans, and not your GM, free agents, Kevin etc.