Bibby wants to go to Houston?

[Bricklayer]

I don't agree. I don't think this course of action leaves you with as good a selection of players as you'd get just by letting Bibby walk.

First off, I'd argue that Divac was more important a free agent signing than Bibby was as a tradee, and anyway, there's not much comparison because the Kings have only had cap room a few times in the franchise's history. Obviously the Suns are a case study in the way cap room can turn a franchise around.

But even aside from that, even if the Rockets were to go along with taking on Bibby at $9 million and only sending out $6.8, which leaves them pretty close to luxury tax land, doing this would only mean that the Kings would have about the MLE to spend this year in free agency. It leaves the Kings about $5-6 million under the cap. You're not going to get a very good free agent with that money.

And then, next year when Martin's extension kicks in, the Kings are already going to be around the cap, and when you add in all the little niggling contracts you're taking on from the Rockets you're not going to have more MLE type cap room next year either.

The only way the Kings are going to get an impact player or two is by letting Bibby walk, not through breaking up his contract in a S&T.

I'd much rather have, say, Mo Wililams and Amir Johnson than a late first rounder, a few spare parts and a couple of MLE types.

You are assuming, falsely, that we then necessarily spend our cap room this year. Save it, and then next year have almost the full Bibby amount. Even if you do spend it, merely having more than teh MLE, even by just a million or two, gives you a nice competitive edge over 80% of the other teams in the league who can't go higher than MLE. Won't net you Vince or Rashard (not coming and not needed in both cases), but you get to have one of the best offers for the next tier of guys.

You are also, again, assuming that if we let Bibby walk we automatically get to sign who we want as a replacement this offseason. That is hardly true of a small market team in chaos. Young gazillionaires don't typically dream of Sacramento as a preferred destination in which to live out the lifestyles of the rich and famous.

I know you have been on the dump Bibby bandwagon for a long time, but no matter how much you might undervalue him, something in the hand beats no guaranteed return at all given that the cap room comes around anyway. Your way has us scrambling year after year just to replace the talent we are constantly bleeding, when what we need to do is dramatically grow the talent base.

P.S. LOL at the Rockets fan suggesting we should not bother so that thye get to keep all their assets and get Mike at the MLE.

 

[supamari0]

P.S. LOL at the Rockets fan suggesting we should not bother so that thye get to keep all their assets and get Mike at the MLE.

Heh , well you shouldn't bother because we have crap for players other than T-Mac and Yao (who are untradeable) and Battier (who is all you could possibly want from the Rockets)

Bibby is staying unless he has some absurd Bonzi-esque agent.

 

[chelle]

I do not believe this rumor. Also, everybody was saying that Mike had tuned Rick out for a couple seasons before the Maloofs let him go. Why would Mike want to play for him again - UNLESS he did not realize what he had until it was gone. By the way, I want Mike to stay.

 

[nbrans]

You are assuming, falsely, that we then necessarily spend our cap room this year. Save it, and then next year have almost the full Bibby amount. Even if you do spend it, merely having more than teh MLE, even by just a million or two, gives you a nice competitive edge over 80% of the other teams in the league who can't go higher than MLE. Won't net you Vince or Rashard (not coming and not needed in both cases), but you get to have one of the best offers for the next tier of guys.

You are also, again, assuming that if we let Bibby walk we automatically get to sign who we want as a replacement this offseason. That is hardly true of a small market team in chaos. Young gazillionaires don't typically dream of Sacramento as a preferred destination in which to live out the lifestyles of the rich and famous.

I know you have been on the dump Bibby bandwagon for a long time, but no matter how much you might undervalue him, something in the hand beats no guaranteed return at all given that the cap room comes around anyway. Your way has us scrambling year after year just to replace the talent we are constantly bleeding, when what we need to do is dramatically grow the talent base.

P.S. LOL at the Rockets fan suggesting we should not bother so that thye get to keep all their assets and get Mike at the MLE.

I don't understand why you want to get something back for him just to say you got something back for him.

It doesn't work to not spend the money this year and then spend it next year. This year you'd be about $5 million under, which isn't an advantage, it's actually less than the MLE. So, ok, you decide to sit out this free agency, suck again next year, and roll over that cap money to next year.

Only next year that cap space is going to be gone. 2008/2009 the payroll is already $53 million, right around the cap. Take Bibby away and add in the Rockets contracts you took on just so you felt good about yourself and you're at about $45 million. Add in Martin's extension and you're right back at $53 million. In other words, you still only have the MLE even if you didn't sign anyone the previous year.

Artest is the wild card, obviously, if he's still on the roster and he opts out you have about $8 million in space, but then you're looking at trying to replace both your point guard and your small forward with less money than you'd have if you would have just let Bibby walk and used that cap space on at least one suitable replacement, maybe two.

Wanting Bibby to walk has nothing at all to do with how I feel about him as a player. It has everything to do with maximizing cap space. It just doesn't make any sense at all to use some of that cap space on worthless small pieces. Just thank Bibby, let him take whatever money he wants from another team, and start spending that money.

We're not giving anything away for nothing. Just think about it like a trade -- we're trading Bibby for the players we can sign with the cap space.

 

[Smills91]

I don't understand why you want to get something back for him just to say you got something back for him.

It doesn't work to not spend the money this year and then spend it next year. This year you'd be about $5 million under, which isn't an advantage, it's actually less than the MLE. So, ok, you decide to sit out this free agency, suck again next year, and roll over that cap money to next year.

Only next year that cap space is going to be gone. 2008/2009 the payroll is already $53 million, right around the cap. Take Bibby away and add in the Rockets contracts you took on just so you felt good about yourself and you're at about $45 million. Add in Martin's extension and you're right back at $53 million. In other words, you still only have the MLE even if you didn't sign anyone the previous year.

Artest is the wild card, obviously, if he's still on the roster and he opts out you have about $8 million in space, but then you're looking at trying to replace both your point guard and your small forward with less money than you'd have if you would have just let Bibby walk and used that cap space on at least one suitable replacement, maybe two.

Wanting Bibby to walk has nothing at all to do with how I feel about him as a player. It has everything to do with maximizing cap space. It just doesn't make any sense at all to use some of that cap space on worthless small pieces. Just thank Bibby, let him take whatever money he wants from another team, and start spending that money.

We're not giving anything away for nothing. Just think about it like a trade -- we're trading Bibby for the players we can sign with the cap space.

Agreed 100%

 

[Gary]

wow if this was true let him walk ! i dont give a crap about losing him for nothing if it doesnt help what were trying to do here. plus if he wants out, peace out. i would rather have all this free cap room.....hold it for one more season and then use it to get a real FA in here. along wit another top 10 loto pick next year

I was thinkgint eh same thing. Let the guy walk.. After next year we would be some 25+ million under the cap according to that site that keeps all the cap info. This is also taking into account the deal we will probally give Martin.

 

[Superman]

This has to be one of the dumbest rumors I've seen ... and that's saying something.

Bibby isn't going to leave $28 million on the table for a one year MLE, just because Rick Adelman is now the coach in Houston.

Assuming that Bibby plays out the rest of this current contract, he'll only be 31 at the end of it, and he'll still be able to get an MLE deal at that point. Thinking about his future would keep him from opting out of this contract.

Demanding a trade is something that I could see happening, but at the end of the day, he'll never leave $28 million on the table just because he wants to go play for his old coach. NEVER.

And if he does, he's an idiot, and good riddance.

 

[bmac423]

Hey guys. Rockets fan here. This rumor was obviously made up. It was pulled off of the realgm boards and I'm sure you guys are aware of the aptitude of the posters over there.

However, it is a decent thought. The Rockets are hurting badly for a point guard and the Kings, I suppose, are rebuilding. Something I suggested over on clutchfans is very similar to bricklayer's suggestions here. I proposed moving Battier and Sura's expiring for a re-signed Bibby at about 10 mill for 4 or 5 years and then another simultaneous trade swapping Howard for KT. What do you guys think about that?

 

[Kingzrool]

Wow, you guys are bored. 38 posts for a completely unsubstantiated rumor.

Did you here that the Hawks are willing to trade their #3 pick for Bibby straight up?

 

[Bricklayer]

Hey guys. Rockets fan here. This rumor was obviously made up. It was pulled off of the realgm boards and I'm sure you guys are aware of the aptitude of the posters over there.

However, it is a decent thought. The Rockets are hurting badly for a point guard and the Kings, I suppose, are rebuilding. Something I suggested over on clutchfans is very similar to bricklayer's suggestions here. I proposed moving Battier and Sura's expiring for a re-signed Bibby at about 10 mill for 4 or 5 years and then another simultaneous trade swapping Howard for KT. What do you guys think about that?

Frankly I think you guys should be careful about moving Battier -- he should thrive under Adelman and is that roleplaying complement you always need on superstar laden teams. And more importantly what the heck are we going to do with him? Much as Geoff seems determined to compose the roster of 100% SFs and just have them all play out of position, we need another 6'8" SF type guy like we need a bullet in the head.

 

[bmac423]

Frankly I think you guys should be careful about moving Battier -- he should thrive under Adelman and is that roleplaying complement you always need on superstar laden teams. And more importantly what the heck are we going to do with him? Much as Geoff seems determined to compose the roster of 100% SFs and just have them all play out of position, we need another 6'8" SF type guy like we need a bullet in the head.

I agree. Ron Ron will most likely be gone, but you guys are still stacked with swing men. However, the Rockets don't have another sizeable and tradeable contract on the roster. You guys really have no incentive for taking on Juwan or Rafer in a deal for Bibby. I guess a third team could become involved to take Battier and send you guys a 1 or a 4 or 5.

 

[ovrush]

Bibby would have to opt out and take the one year minimum deal to wind up in Houston in my oppinion. Houston simply doesn't have enough tradeable pieces to make dealing Bibby to them viable. Yes, Bibby had a down year, but he's still our most tradeable piece and there will be lots of interest in him this offseason. I don't he would sign a small enough deal that we could only get enders back, and there's no way you trade Bibby for smaller, but longer contracts for guys who are even more untradeable (see Webber deal).

All that being said, would it be terrible if Bibby walked? Not terrible.... but not good. While it may clear up cap space immediately Bibby still has enough value to get some draft picks/young talent in addition to enders if sent to the right team, so overall we'd miss out on that opportunity.

Finally, do I think he's bluffing? ( if the report is even credible which I think is doubtful) Yes! Bibby would be a fool to leave that much money on the table, and I can't imagine his agent would let him. If it is true, he's probly just having a tough time watching the post season for the first time in a while and he's speaking out without thinking. I think this is all really a non issue and will settle down quickly into TDOS.

 

[Kingsin07]

Bibby would be great fit in Atlanta. We get the #3. Who wouldn't do that.

Draft Horford or B.Wright 3rd, Jeff Green 10th and trade Artest for a decent PG.

 

[John Galt]

Bibby would be great fit in Atlanta. We get the #3. Who wouldn't do that.

Who wouldn't do it is Atlanta. If they want a PG they pick Conley.

Conley > Bibby

 

[sactownfan]

This Aint Gonna Happen Someone Lock This Thread

 

[Heuge]

Who wouldn't do it is Atlanta. If they want a PG they pick Conley.

Conley > Bibby

Nope, that is absurd. Conley hasnt done a thing yet.

 

[John Galt]

Nope, that is absurd. Conley hasnt done a thing yet.

29/29 gms take the rookie Conley over the $12M Bibby.

no brainer.

If Geoff pulled this off he would be exec of the year again.

 

[Heuge]

29/29 gms take the rookie Conley over the $12M Bibby.

no brainer.

If Geoff pulled this off he would be exec of the year again.

GMs may take Conley for age and cost, but it is premature to claim that Conley is better then Bibby. I would bet you wouldnt find a GM to make such an asinine statement.

 

[kupman]

This Aint Gonna Happen Someone Lock This Thread

That pretty much sums it up.......lol.

 

[John Galt]

GMs may take Conley for age and cost, but it is premature to claim that Conley is better then Bibby. I would bet you wouldnt find a GM to make such an asinine statement.

My friend it just depends on what you mean by ">".

You're overreacting with words like asinine and absurd.

Which guy has made more big plays in The League, which guy has accomplished more in College and the NBA, that is not what I'm talking about.

I am a big time Bibby fan through thick and thin - I've been consistent with that.

Still to get the best pg in the draft for an oversized veteran contract is an easy call.... in terms of value, pick #3 (even if spent on Conley which might be overpaying a little) ">" Bibby

Point is Atlanta would be a laughingstock to give up #3 for Bibby and you know it. It would be better to spend it on Conley and I think you must know that too...

 

[Spike]

No way.

You do not know how Conley's game will transition into the NBA to assume that he is at this point, a better NBA player than Bibby. Conley is a middle of the lottery pick based on what he's shown in college. Will he be the next Jason Kidd? Maybe, but right now Bibby has the edge. Put Bibby back in a system that he's comfortable in, and you'd probably see a difference from this past year.

 

[John Galt]

No way.

You do not know how Conley's game will transition into the NBA to assume that he is at this point, a better NBA player than Bibby. Conley is a middle of the lottery pick based on what he's shown in college. Will he be the next Jason Kidd? Maybe, but right now Bibby has the edge. Put Bibby back in a system that he's comfortable in, and you'd probably see a difference from this past year.

I did not say "he is, at this point, a beter NBA player than Bibby".

I'll just agree to disagree with you all, although I think you keep stubbornly insisiting on looking at this based on simply who is likely to give you a better court perforamance in 2007-2008, instead of on overall value as an NBA commodity/piece of meat for the dollar.

Atlanta hoops fans I'm sure would go absolutly beserk if they spent their 3rd pick on a trade for Bibby. But I'm rooting for that if it can happen... absolutely.

PS: think back to the trade deadline and use that to assess whether Bibby is going to fetch a top 10 draft pick (much less #3) in trade. If Geoff has assigned the value to him that some of you have... I can guarantee he isn't going anywhere (which is fine by me - I like having Mike Bibby on the Kings).

 

[SacKings384]

Nobody said Conley is better than Bibby... That would just be stupid... But is Bibby $10 million per year better? I don't think so.

 

[John Galt]

Nobody said Conley is better than Bibby... That would just be stupid... But is Bibby $10 million per year better? I don't think so.

agreed.

I guess I did technically "say that" - but I meant it in context of overall value/dollar. So we're all on the same page I guess. I should have phrased my original statement differently. "Conley > Bibby" wasn't the right way for me to put it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Nobody said Conley is better than Bibby... That would just be stupid... But is Bibby $10 million per year better? I don't think so.

Nobody is $10 million a year more than anybody...but they are. A 20 pt scorer may well be worth $10 mil than an 10pt scorer. One impacts the game, the other is just a guy. Conley is far from a sure bet. This is not the Chris Paul/Deron Williams draft. He's the best PG available, but sometimes the best PG available isn't really that great. IF Conley is what he may be, then of course its the better deal. But nobody knows. He might end up being the 12pt 6ast PG that every team who has him is looking to replace every year. Mike on the other hand is a sure thing. Everybody knows what he is, and what he is a good starting quality PG. Assuming last year to be any sort of aberration, likely a Top 10 PG.

Atlanta, like several fo the teams in the draft, have to decide whether they are going to continue poking away in the lottery every year, or whether the time has come to solidify the roster for sure and get back to the playoffs. Before Hibbert puilled out I did not think it was impossible for a #10 + Bibby for #3 + matching pieces type deal, with Atlanta using the #10 to get Hibbert. Now I'm not sure, Although if I were GM I would be very active in calling Chaicgo, trying to get them to part with their #9, and then calling Atlanta and being able to offer them Hawes and Bibby for that #3 and junk (if Chicago stays in the draft they may well take Hawes before he gets to us). Or if they would rather, perhaps Hawes and Conley at #9 and #10 for the PF of our choice at #3.

 

[VF21]

No way.

You do not know how Conley's game will transition into the NBA to assume that he is at this point, a better NBA player than Bibby. Conley is a middle of the lottery pick based on what he's shown in college. Will he be the next Jason Kidd? Maybe, but right now Bibby has the edge. Put Bibby back in a system that he's comfortable in, and you'd probably see a difference from this past year.

I agree, Spike.

I think people are forgetting that Mike was beat up most of last season. His wrist never did get a chance to rest properly and he had a plethora of other stuff that had to contribute to his game, not even including the tension that had to be around 24/7.

I'm not that anxious to get rid of Mike Bibby. I still believe we need to address the 4/5 problem first and do whatever it takes to get rid of some of the real deadwood on the team.

 

[John Galt]

Before Hibbert puilled out I did not think it was impossible for a #10 + Bibby for #3 + matching pieces type deal, with Atlanta using the #10 to get Hibbert. Now I'm not sure, Although if I were GM I would be very active in calling Chaicgo, trying to get them to part with their #9, and then calling Atlanta and being able to offer them Hawes and Bibby for that #3 and junk (if Chicago stays in the draft they may well take Hawes before he gets to us). Or if they would rather, perhaps Hawes and Conley at #9 and #10 for the PF of our choice at #3.

I like it. #9 + Bibby for #3 is a lot different and more realistic than Bibby for #3.

Most mocks I've seen do not have Conley dropping to #9 though.

Who are you taking with the #3 Bricklayer? The #3 pick is a big responsibility

 

[Entity]

I like it. #9 + Bibby for #3 is a lot different and more realistic than Bibby for #3.

Most mocks I've seen do not have Conley dropping to #9 though.

Who are you taking with the #3 Bricklayer? The #3 pick is a big responsibility

did we move up 1 spot and nobody tell me?

I agree with VF. We need to take care of the 4/5 first and formost. If it happens via Mike Bibby then so be it but, it has to be taken care of before we can move foward with other moves or even as a team.

 

[Entity]

I like it. #9 + Bibby for #3 is a lot different and more realistic than Bibby for #3.

Most mocks I've seen do not have Conley dropping to #9 though.

Who are you taking with the #3 Bricklayer? The #3 pick is a big responsibility

Conley will never make it past Millwalkee or Minnesota or Portland trading with someone to get him well before the #9 or #10

 

[John Galt]

did we move up 1 spot and nobody tell me?

Yes Brick got the #9 from Chicago about 4 posts ago. Keep up!