[CHI/DET] Bulls vs Pistons

[Bricklayer]

Hey, who knows, maybe one of these days, the east will break this long run of west dominance in the finals.

Oh wait...

I think until the western conference can prove it can beat the east in the finals more than once every three years, it should be disbanded. Considering the ECF has been the "real" NBA finals 2 out of the last 3 years (and an eyelash from being 3), why not?

At some point, you lose the right to exist....

Your rather interesting "logic", not to mention terminal lack of sense of humor about the pathetic nature of your own conference, largely render the point moot, since using your approach we can jsut disband USA basketball entirely because Nash and Nowitzki have won the last three MVPs, so clearly the Germans and Candians got it going on in the basketball world.

Did get a kick out of the amazing "accomplishment" of the Pistons making 5 straight ECFs. Got me thinking...how many 50 win teams did they have to beat to reach those ECFs?

Answer: 0

Wonderful Conference. So much depth of talent. So much excitement. Hard to imagine why they have pigeons nesting in the upper decks of so many of the arenas.

And calling Billups the 4th best PG left in the playoffs is still funny a hell. I'm still laughing at that one...

Other than Nash, no PG in the NBA has proven more than Billups as a winner, scorer, defender, and floor leader.

I like to genuflect at the feet of overrated 17pt 7ast 42% shooting PGs as much as the next guy, but think I'll stick with the HOFs and guys playing like HOFs rather than this generation's Terry Porter. Top 10 PG and good leader, but really now.

If it makes you feel any better, now that Baron Davis is out, Chauncey may now be as high as the 3rd best remaining PG, although Parker can quibble and Deron will likely be better then either of them in a few years.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Hey, who knows, maybe one of these days, the east will break this long run of west dominance in the finals.

Oh wait...

I think until the western conference can prove it can beat the east in the finals more than once every three years, it should be disbanded. Considering the ECF has been the "real" NBA finals 2 out of the last 3 years (and an eyelash from being 3), why not?

At some point, you lose the right to exist....

And calling Billups the 4th best PG left in the playoffs is still funny a hell. I'm still laughing at that one...

Other than Nash, no PG in the NBA has proven more than Billups as a winner, scorer, defender, and floor leader.

I recall Scott Skiles saying last year that Steve Nash was not only the best point guard in the NBA, but the best at the position he'd ever seen. He said his ability to find the smallest seams in a defense was unparalleled. He also said that the east was not inferior to the west - just contrasting styles. As he saw it, the ball moved more fluidly and at greater speed during average games in the west leading some to interpret it as superior basketball.

 

[sloter]

Eastern conference is crap, plain and simple.

On the other hand, I'm a huge fan of Chauncey's game ever since he was the MVP of the finals against the Lakers... those were pretty sweet days

 

[sloter]

As he saw it, the ball moved more fluidly and at greater speed during average games in the west leading some to interpret it as superior basketball.

Sounds to me like the difference between college and NBA.
It's "only" speed, size and talent.

 

[Kstat]

Yep, that speed size and talent advantage was sure visible in the 2004 finals, or the 2005 finals, or the 2006 finals...

You can crap on the Pistons all you want, but they've proven time and time again that they aren't outclassed at all by the best western conference teams.

I like to genuflect at the feet of overrated 17pt 7ast 42% shooting PGs as much as the next guy, but think I'll stick with the HOFs and guys playing like HOFs rather than this generation's Terry Porter. Top 10 PG and good leader, but really now.

How many finals MVPs does Terry Porter have on his resume again?

You do not judge the impact of Chauncey Billups by looking at his stats. Come on now.

Intangibles like leadership, defense and clutch shooting do not show up in the box score.

Outside of Steve Nash, there is no more dominant point guard in the NBA in the 4th quarter than Chauncey Billups, and it's been that way for the last half-decade.

 

[acisking]

And calling Billups the 4th best PG left in the playoffs is still funny a hell. I'm still laughing at that one...

Hmm...I mean I guess you can make the argument that he is better than Baron as an overall player (not to mention Baron is out of the playoffs), but Billups would still only be third best after Nash and Kidd. Of course, that is a relatively trivial point since Billups is arguably the third best point gaurd in the league after those two anyway.

It shows just how important the PG position is when you consider that all the teams left (except Cleveland) have an ELITE point gaurd on their squads.

 

[Bricklayer]

How many finals MVPs does Terry Porter have on his resume again?

The exact same number Chauncey Billups would have on his resume if he had run into Michael Jordan and the Bad Boys in his Finals stints rather than an old dysfunctional pack of squabbling children.

And BTW, Terry Porter's M.O. was similar, if the career pattern was different. Good defense, leadership, solid playmaking, clutch player, borderline All Star a couple of years. And like Chauncey, strictly second tier compared to the true greats running around in his era (in Porter's case, Magic, Zeke, KJ, Hardaway etc.). In Chauncey's case Nash, Kidd, Arenas, A.I. etc. In both cases, heading up an immensely talented crew that won/wins by accumlation rather than because of the virtuoso talents of its PG.

As for the Pistons as a whole, they are now the only team in the East even worthy of consideration, and at all other points in the last half decade have been one of two at the most worthy of notice in any given year. But their run of elite success is at least partly an accident of geography -- in the West they are just another power team. Worthy to bang heads with the rest, but in no way clearly superior to them. Good enough though that if you would like, in spite of the unattractive style of play I think I could justify asking Stern for an exception in their case when the rest of the Least is disbanded. Just don't bank on Chauncey to come West and make the All Star team with A.I., Nash, Kobe, TMac, Allen, Parker, Paul, Baron, Williams etc. all fighting for spots (hmm...could be a flaw to my plan -- nobody for the West All Stars to play).

 

[jacobdrj]

I will just never understand the 'attractive style of play thing'. I can't even empathize with it. IMHO there are 2 styles that matter: Team with intensity, and individuals without it. And while GS was a team, and they were intense, I usually still got board of them within 10 minutes: All they did was run and gun. It was cute, but about as interesting as watching a chicken with its head cut off. So I could never watch a game from the beginning... just waited until the 4th, or didn't bother to watch at all.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I will just never understand the 'attractive style of play thing'. I can't even empathize with it. IMHO there are 2 styles that matter: Team with intensity, and individuals without it. And while GS was a team, and they were intense, I usually still got board of them within 10 minutes: All they did was run and gun. It was cute, but about as interesting as watching a chicken with its head cut off. So I could never watch a game from the beginning... just waited until the 4th, or didn't bother to watch at all.

Quoted for emphasis.

 

[kupman]

You can crap on the Pistons all you want, but they've proven time and time again that they aren't outclassed at all by the best western conference teams.

Congrats Kstat on another Pistons ECF. The Pistons franchise is clearly one of the best in the entire league. They play beautiful basketball and they are a pleasure to watch.

Who is better?.....Billups or Kidd...I don't know. Who is hotter?....Jessical Alba or Charlize Theron? Who really cares? This isn't some type of beauty contest.

All I know is that the Pistons win a lot of games and I respect the heck out of them.

 

[nbrans]

Congrats Kstat on another Pistons ECF. The Pistons franchise is clearly one of the best in the entire league. They play beautiful basketball and they are a pleasure to watch.

Who is better?.....Billups or Kidd...I don't know. Who is hotter?....Jessical Alba or Charlize Theron? Who really cares? This isn't some type of beauty contest.

All I know is that the Pistons win a lot of games and I respect the heck out of them.

Jessica Alba is hotter and Jason Kidd is the better point guard.

 

[Kstat]

Kidd is indeed the better PG....except for the games when he plays Billups head-to-head, and much like Seve Nash, Billups eats him alive.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

No need to be so defensive... surely there's room for Billups to be a great player, and the perfect fit for the Detroit Pistons, and still not be the best point guard in the league, yes?

 

[Kstat]

I never said he wast the best PG in the NBA. Nash earned that title long ago.

I also said Jason Kidd is the better PG on most nights, but head to head it usually isn't even close.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'm not at all sold on this "Nash is the best PG in the league" propaganda. I'm not convinced that he's better than a healthy Baron Davis, and not at all convinced that he's as good as Jason Kidd. In fact, the way I see it, Kidd has gotten as far or further than Nash with less talent.

 

[sloter]

In fact, the way I see it, Kidd has gotten as far or further than Nash with less talent.

And we're back to the Eastern Conference argument ... unless you are talking about the time when Kidd was in Dallas or with Suns and in that case there is no comparison of their team achievements.

Nash was definitely a late bloomer, so overall Kidd will have a better career, however, in the last 3 years Nash has been a better PG than Kidd ever was.

 

[Jerryaki]

Nash was definitely a late bloomer, so overall Kidd will have a better career, however, in the last 3 years Nash has been a better PG than Kidd ever was.

can someone explain this to me? i never really noticed nash much in his time with dallas, so...did he just develop his court vision in phoenix? or is it more the difference in the systems in dallas and phoenix?

the jump in his level between the two clubs is drastic, but i didn't think court vision was a skill you developed; you either have it or you don't.

 

[Bricklayer]

can someone explain this to me? i never really noticed nash much in his time with dallas, so...did he just develop his court vision in phoenix? or is it more the difference in the systems in dallas and phoenix?

the jump in his level between the two clubs is drastic, but i didn't think court vision was a skill you developed; you either have it or you don't.

Nash always had incredible court vision -- that was actually his greatest trait even in Dallas. Its really the step up in consistency and confidence in every OTHER aspect of his game that has been so amazing. He is now a truly dominant player who entire defenses are centered aroudn stopping, and who can't be stopped anyway. That is remarkable.

 

[Superman]

can someone explain this to me? i never really noticed nash much in his time with dallas, so...did he just develop his court vision in phoenix? or is it more the difference in the systems in dallas and phoenix?

the jump in his level between the two clubs is drastic, but i didn't think court vision was a skill you developed; you either have it or you don't.

I don't agree that he was a late bloomer. He's not any better skill-wise than he was with Dallas. He's just playing on a team so potent offensively that runs and takes more shots than any other team in the League, and it's making him look better than he did in Dallas.

But his game is the same. It's just easier for him in Phoenix, he handles the ball more, and the Suns went from a lottery team to a Western conference power, virtually overnight, so it looks like Steve Nash is the best thing to ever hit the League. In reality, he's the same player he's been the past several seasons. He's just in a more ideal situation now.

 

[Jerryaki]

I think until the western conference can prove it can beat the east in the finals more than once every three years, it should be disbanded. Considering the ECF has been the "real" NBA finals 2 out of the last 3 years (and an eyelash from being 3), why not?

i read this on sports guy's blog and immediately thought back to kstat's comment:

2. I dare anyone to come up with a "Top 10 Moments from the 2007 Eastern Conference Playoffs" list. Go ahead. I dare you.

 

[KP]

When Nash makes it to a finals he will be a truly dominant player. He has a Beast inside in Amare, a guy who can do everything at a high level in Marion, one of the best slashers in the league in Barbosa, Another Big who can defend, rebound, and hit shots to open up the lane for all those cutters in Thomas, no more excuses... I want to see him win when it really counts, then I'll eat my words.

 

[BMiller52]

When Nash makes it to a finals he will be a truly dominant player. He has a Beast inside in Amare, a guy who can do everything at a high level in Marion, one of the best slashers in the league in Barbosa, Another Big who can defend, rebound, and hit shots to open up the lane for all those cutters in Thomas, no more excuses... I want to see him win when it really counts, then I'll eat my words.

He'd already be headed to the finals if Parker hadn't cut his nose and stopped him from playing and Horry hadn't checked him into a table, drawing a reaction from his teammates that got them suspended.

 

[KP]

He'd already be headed to the finals if Parker hadn't cut his nose and stopped him from playing and Horry hadn't checked him into a table, drawing a reaction from his teammates that got them suspended.

Like I said no more excuses^, and anyways the series isn't over yet Phoenix can still pull it out, the Spurs are still vulnerable.

 

[Warhawk]

Jessica Alba is hotter and Jason Kidd is the better point guard.

Ditto that.

 

[kupman]

^^^ Wow.....I'm not too sure. I mean, I will gladly give you guys the Kidd over Billups one, but Alba over Theron.....that one is just too close to call.

However, if you guys insist on fighting over Jessica, I will happily walk away with Charlize.

 

[Warhawk]

No fighting involved, just expressing a preference....