how long has sacramento been "rebuilding"

tyrant

tyrant

Starter
#1
#1
all i hear around here is "rebuild through the draft". we've been trying to rebuild ever since we traded our franchise player. i think we traded him in 2005. so 2 years ago. players that have came and gone since then

1.songaila
2.skinner
3.cuttino
4.bonzi
5.shareef
6.corliss
7.kenny thomas
8. peja
9.artest
10.vlade
11.martin
12.price
13. douby

you would think with 13 add/subtracts we would finally find a lineup that works. since the webber trade we've seen at least 4 set starting lineup. (not lineups because of injuries)

the lakers lost in the NBA finals of 2004. they started sucking in 2005. around the same time that we started sucking. poor decisions indeed. am i the only one that expects us to be back in the playoffs this comming season?
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
#2
We've been rebuilding in the same way that you are redecorating when your beautiful old furniture wears out and you waste years replacing it willy nilly with stuff you pick up at various thrift stores and garage sales. End result you get the bright yellow floral print coach, a faded purple recliner with tears in the seat, a green rug with cigarette burns, a beat up ole dark wood tabel with a set of mismatched chairs, and maybe some plastic flowers as a centerpiece. Yes, you "redecorated", but there was no plan, and no hope for success.

So if by rebuild you mean actually rebuild as in start over with a new strong base and go from there, we have been rebuilding for roughly one month. And its going to take a while to clean out all the random thrift store garbage and start over with an actual matched set of pieces.
 
Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#3
#3
Bricklayer said:
We've been rebuilding in the same way that you are redecorating when your beautiful old furniture wears out and you waste years replacing it willy nilly with stuff you pick up at various thrift stores and garage sales. End result you get the bright yellow floral print coach, a faded purple recliner with tears in the seat, a green rug with cigarette burns, a beat up ole dark wood tabel with a set of mismatched chairs, and maybe some plastic flowers as a centerpiece. Yes, you "redecorated", but there was no plan, and no hope for success.

So if by rebuild you mean actually rebuild as in start over with a new strong base and go from there, we have been rebuilding for roughly one month. And its going to take a while to clean out all the random thrift store garbage and start over with an actual matched set of pieces.
Click to expand...
Your knowledge of beat up old garage sale furniture is very impressive.
 
O

ovrush

Bench
#4
#4
I don't even know if we've started "rebuilding" quite yet. As long as we have a team deeper in vets with big contracts (KT, Bibby, Miller, SAR,) than young developing kids we're still not rebuilding.

I guess technically if we can't move the guys we have you could call it a rebuilding season if you at least let the kids play so we could see what we have and maybe try to develop Price/Garcia/Williams/Douby/KMart.

None of this even broaches the Artest issue...can you rebuild with a guy like Artest on the team? He's fairly young, his contract is pallatable, and he's competitive as hell; which is always good to have around young players.... He's also a powder keg off the court who tends to monopolize the ball on the court; both huge negatives. If you don't move him you can't really bench him for a younger guy in a youth movement because this only accelerates the ticking time bomb that is Ron...and if you do move him it can't be a repeat of the Webber fiasco where we get stuck with guys with long contracts who won't contribute and we can't trade.

To answer your question.. I HOPE we aren't in the playoffs next season. I hope we have one of the youngest teams in the league and people are talking about us as up and comers. I hope we have a team that is young, athletic, exciting, and plays hard every minute of every game for whatever coach we get.

If we're in the playoffs next year it won't be as a championship contender and it likely won't be as a young and up and coming team.
 
nbrans

nbrans

All-Star
#5
#5
Since the Webber trade. I don't think there's any great shame in trying to remain competitive while you're trying to juggle a rebuilding project, and I don't think it's easy on the other hand to just completely dismantle your team and start from scratch.

At the tail end of the Kings' championship window, there were a lot of decisions made to try and win in the present at the expense of the future, such as the decision to get Peeler on his terms, trading draft picks to stay under the cap, and holding onto veterans as they entered their decline. The Webber trade marked the beginning of the rebuild.

The Kings were inevitably going to pay a big price for the aging of that core group, not to mention the price we continue to pay for the premature aging/sucking of Peja, Bibby and Miller. Now, you can take an atom bomb to the roster, but even assuming you can find the right expirings/picks, when you do that it takes years and years and years to reemerge. Look at the Bulls and Hawks, for instance.

There's a very tricky balance between trying to maintain some talent so you can bounce back vs. letting all that talent go and starting completely from scratch. I'm much more of a proponent of the maintain talent, suck for a year or two and bounce back model than I am the nuclear option. The bounce-back model worked for San Antonio, Miami, Phoenix, Utah and others, whereas the nuclear model is only beginning to work for Chicago after 9 years. Sure, it's frustrating to be mediocre since you're missing out on a top pick, but looking at it another way, at least this team has some assets, which provides more opportunity for the bounce-back happening in the near term rather than years and years in the future while you wait for your young talent to pan out.

We're all unhappy with the state of the franchise, but very few of the moves that have been made since the Webber trade were bad on their face. I don't think the franchise has suffered due to a lack of vision, except possibly the deluded decisions this season, such as the Maloofs firing Muss and shooting down trades. The only thing you can really question are the deals that didn't happen, but judging from the ones that have been leaked, such as Bibby for Cleveland's crap, I'm willing to give the front office the benefit of the doubt, because patience can be a big virtue even if it pisses your fans off.

This is the normal life cycle of an NBA franchise, and while I would have been extremely happy if Tankapalooza 2007 had started much, much earlier, we're in a decent spot in terms of having some assets, a good pick and hopefully some financial flexibility. No franchise was built in a day, and I'm hopeful this offseason will mark a turning point toward things getting better.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#6
#6
We have been rebuilding since Webber's knee was destroyed. Only 1 player remains from that squad. I also do not think that Kmart or Artest should be likened to old furniture found in a garage sale. They are legitimate parts. We have some young parts, some old parts like most teams. The rebuild just has not been very successful to date. I have no idea what has happened in the last month to suggest that a new rebuild with a strong base has occurred recently.
 
B

Backlash

G-League
#7
#7
kupman said:
We have been rebuilding since Webber's knee was destroyed. Only 1 player remains from that squad. I also do not think that Kmart or Artest should be likened to old furniture found in a garage sale. They are legitimate parts. We have some young parts, some old parts like most teams. The rebuild just has not been very successful to date. I have no idea what has happened in the last month to suggest that a new rebuild with a strong base has occurred recently.
Click to expand...

I disagree. We were maintaining and coping. Not rebuilding. Rebuilding is just that...and there has been no construction on this team in the past three years.
 
Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#8
#8
kupman said:
We have been rebuilding since Webber's knee was destroyed. Only 1 player remains from that squad. I also do not think that Kmart or Artest should be likened to old furniture found in a garage sale. They are legitimate parts. We have some young parts, some old parts like most teams. The rebuild just has not been very successful to date. I have no idea what has happened in the last month to suggest that a new rebuild with a strong base has occurred recently.
Click to expand...
More like retooling than rebuilding.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#10
#10
Bricklayer said:
We've been rebuilding in the same way that you are redecorating when your beautiful old furniture wears out and you waste years replacing it willy nilly with stuff you pick up at various thrift stores and garage sales. End result you get the bright yellow floral print coach, a faded purple recliner with tears in the seat, a green rug with cigarette burns, a beat up ole dark wood tabel with a set of mismatched chairs, and maybe some plastic flowers as a centerpiece. Yes, you "redecorated", but there was no plan, and no hope for success.

So if by rebuild you mean actually rebuild as in start over with a new strong base and go from there, we have been rebuilding for roughly one month. And its going to take a while to clean out all the random thrift store garbage and start over with an actual matched set of pieces.
Click to expand...

Excellent comparison.

Was thinking the same myself.. Rebuilding isnt getting a piece here from one place, and a piece from another place..

You need a base coat of paint that will match your scheme...

Lets say the following...

The coach is the base coat of paint, and the assistants are the molding around the walls/ceiling..

Your point guard is your lazyboy chair that is he does not match the rest of the decor than your living room will never be complete. You need that lazyboy to match.

Your center is the sectional, or main couch in the room. If it matches the scheme than you are lookin good.

Your fowards are the love seats. they are easiest to match to the room/sofa, and easiest to replace.

Your SG is the TV, and the coffee table. This is the parts of your living room that is always replaced. SG is the easiest thing to replace in your lineup so you can always go from a glass coffee table to a wooden one and your decor wont suffer. same with the TV. A flat screen to a Plasma.
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#11
#11
So far, we've done nothing except for cost-cutting measures, and those, by themselves, are not rebuilding. Firing a bad coach could be the start of a rebuild, or it could be an isolated action. So I'd say our time in rebuild mode is somewhere between zero and almost a month, but that we won't know until more has happened (or failed to happen). Ask again in 4-6 months.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#12
#12
ovrush said:
I don't even know if we've started "rebuilding" quite yet. As long as we have a team deeper in vets with big contracts (KT, Bibby, Miller, SAR,) than young developing kids we're still not rebuilding.

I guess technically if we can't move the guys we have you could call it a rebuilding season if you at least let the kids play so we could see what we have and maybe try to develop Price/Garcia/Williams/Douby/KMart.

None of this even broaches the Artest issue...can you rebuild with a guy like Artest on the team? He's fairly young, his contract is pallatable, and he's competitive as hell; which is always good to have around young players.... He's also a powder keg off the court who tends to monopolize the ball on the court; both huge negatives. If you don't move him you can't really bench him for a younger guy in a youth movement because this only accelerates the ticking time bomb that is Ron...and if you do move him it can't be a repeat of the Webber fiasco where we get stuck with guys with long contracts who won't contribute and we can't trade.

To answer your question.. I HOPE we aren't in the playoffs next season. I hope we have one of the youngest teams in the league and people are talking about us as up and comers. I hope we have a team that is young, athletic, exciting, and plays hard every minute of every game for whatever coach we get.

If we're in the playoffs next year it won't be as a championship contender and it likely won't be as a young and up and coming team.
Click to expand...
How boring. I agree with every point.:D I especially like the point about not rebuilding. We've been adding some new furniture, replacing some old, but the house is a crappy house - it needs to be torn down because of a faulty foundation. As for Artest, he needs to go, but we aren't going to get an equal talent, so that's another check in the "we'll be worse box" for next year. And the coup de grace - I also hope that we're not in the playoffs next year, for the same reason that you give.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#13
#13
Gary said:
Excellent comparison.

Was thinking the same myself.. Rebuilding isnt getting a piece here from one place, and a piece from another place..

You need a base coat of paint that will match your scheme...

Lets say the following...

The coach is the base coat of paint, and the assistants are the molding around the walls/ceiling..

Your point guard is your lazyboy chair that is he does not match the rest of the decor than your living room will never be complete. You need that lazyboy to match.

Your center is the sectional, or main couch in the room. If it matches the scheme than you are lookin good.

Your fowards are the love seats. they are easiest to match to the room/sofa, and easiest to replace.

Your SG is the TV, and the coffee table. This is the parts of your living room that is always replaced. SG is the easiest thing to replace in your lineup so you can always go from a glass coffee table to a wooden one and your decor wont suffer. same with the TV. A flat screen to a Plasma.
Click to expand...
You're talking about interior decorating. I'd like to see RE-BUILDING, which infers lacing the foundation with dynamite and blowing it to Kingdom Come. We'll talk about the color of the carpet later...But I get your point.:)
 
M

Merdiesel

Starter
#14
#14
My Plan For The Kings in 2007-2008

-Bring in a big man that actually plays like a big man.

-Bring in a point guard that actually plays like a point guard.


...make sense Geoff?
 
O

ovrush

Bench
#18
#18
Bricklayer said:
We've been rebuilding in the same way that you are redecorating when your beautiful old furniture wears out and you waste years replacing it willy nilly with stuff you pick up at various thrift stores and garage sales. End result you get the bright yellow floral print coach, a faded purple recliner with tears in the seat, a green rug with cigarette burns, a beat up ole dark wood tabel with a set of mismatched chairs, and maybe some plastic flowers as a centerpiece. Yes, you "redecorated", but there was no plan, and no hope for success.

So if by rebuild you mean actually rebuild as in start over with a new strong base and go from there, we have been rebuilding for roughly one month. And its going to take a while to clean out all the random thrift store garbage and start over with an actual matched set of pieces.
Click to expand...

Thread revisited... looks like the part where we have been rebuilding for a month was premature... We're in a state of perpetual garage sale redecorating...Just no one turn over the cushions on the Mikki Moore purchase, it's not pretty...
 
k1037

k1037

Prospect
#19
#19
Bricklayer said:
We've been rebuilding in the same way that you are redecorating when your beautiful old furniture wears out and you waste years replacing it willy nilly with stuff you pick up at various thrift stores and garage sales. End result you get the bright yellow floral print coach, a faded purple recliner with tears in the seat, a green rug with cigarette burns, a beat up ole dark wood tabel with a set of mismatched chairs, and maybe some plastic flowers as a centerpiece. Yes, you "redecorated", but there was no plan, and no hope for success.

So if by rebuild you mean actually rebuild as in start over with a new strong base and go from there, we have been rebuilding for roughly one month. And its going to take a while to clean out all the random thrift store garbage and start over with an actual matched set of pieces.
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure about that, either. The only thing we've done is draft a slow, jump-shooting, low-rebounding center with poor defense and sign Mikki Moore for an absurd amount of money. That's not rebuilding. I have no idea what the hell it is, but it's not rebuilding. I'd have to say that our rebuilding hasn't even begun, yet.

EDIT: Oops, didn't notice the dates on the posts
 
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K

kyo2002

G-League
#20
#20
What? The Kings started to rebuild? Don't have to start from scratch and don't have to rebuild while trying to be competitive like now, but a good rebuilding plan around a system wouldn't hurt.
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#21
#21
DaMan said:
i don't think we have started yet.
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I agree. We should tear it down and start from the ground up imo...I think Geoff is "trying" to rebuild, but can't find a way to unload KT or any of our big contracts. Drafting Kevin was a start, but we got lucky there...hopefully Hawes will turn out to be a good pick
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#22
#22
this is sad... when would webbers contract come to an end if he werent waived/bought out? this year or next? if we had just waited that contract out we could have gone into full rebuild mode with tons of cash to throw at whomever we wanted...

we didnt need to trade webber to get bonzi, artest, reef, salmons or moore... we would have been much better off with his monster contract than with kennys..... that was the worst move ever... and people thought that the lakers goofed by trading shaq... their only mistake was trading butler... kwame sucks.... and butler was killing it for the wizards until he got hurt...

man this team sucks...
 
datamanwes

datamanwes

G-League
#23
#23
While many of the fans want to see us blowup the team and go with all youth. The unfortunate part of that is that does not always work out. The NBA is littered with players that did not live up to there potential. So if you blow up your team and start over and wait a couple of years and some players don't develop and/or the chemistry is not there then you retool. Well the Kings are retooling now. Not waiting.

Contrary to popular opinion we do have some pieces for the future. and we have have some tradeable players as well, When the time is right we will pull the trigger on those moves.

If we are patient we can move some of those players for better players under the right circumstances. As far as our team, we are not as bad as we appeared a year ago. Alot of that was coaching, non motivation and a lack of athletismn as well as lack of a big man.Mikky will help with the athletisism on the big mans part and Hawes will help on having a big man in the middle.

If and if is always a big word

If Artest is motivated and does not distract the team behind the scenes he is a top notch Small forward and a important piece in us winning this year, yes this year

If Hawes can get stronger and score and pass the way he did in college he is a upgrade and can help us win this year.

Our team this year is built to play different players,to have the pieces to exploit matchup problems for other teams. Alot of teams won games against us because we were slow to react on matchup problems last year. The players we have aquired in this off season will help change that.

Will we win the NBA title next year, probably not, but I believe we will have a
more competitve team that will be a lot more fun to watch
 
T

Tenacious D

Prospect
#24
#24
datamanwes said:
Our team this year is built to play different players,to have the pieces to exploit matchup problems for other teams. Alot of teams won games against us because we were slow to react on matchup problems last year. The players we have aquired in this off season will help change that.
Click to expand...
I agree we have a lot of good pieces. The trick is last year we were so worried about trade bate that we did not let the young guys develop. I suggest that coach plays who he wants to, to win or develop and let the other guys sit on the bench
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#25
#25
NOTE: this is an older thread revived from about 2-3 months ago, so older posts in it reflect earlier opinions.

And yes, as has been pointed out by several people, I was frankly being too optimistic again. Has happened a lot in recent years. People can grumble all they want, but they have no idea what they are talking about -- I predicted we would go about .500 last year -- oops, too optimistic --, predicted we would win 45-50 the year before that -- oops, too optimistic --, predicted Geoff would see the writing on the wall and move Peja the year before that -- oops, we got the abomination of the Webber trade for "flexible pieces" instead. And yes, here in this thread a few months back quite foolishlessly gave Geoff one last little bit of confidence, that even he could not be so dense as to refuse to rebuild AGAIN.

I've been a practical bleeping ray of sunshine and hope compared to the real situation on the ground.
 
Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#26
#26
datamanwes said:
While many of the fans want to see us blowup the team and go with all youth. The unfortunate part of that is that does not always work out. The NBA is littered with players that did not live up to there potential. So if you blow up your team and start over and wait a couple of years and some players don't develop and/or the chemistry is not there then you retool. Well the Kings are retooling now. Not waiting.

Contrary to popular opinion we do have some pieces for the future. and we have have some tradeable players as well, When the time is right we will pull the trigger on those moves.

If we are patient we can move some of those players for better players under the right circumstances. As far as our team, we are not as bad as we appeared a year ago. Alot of that was coaching, non motivation and a lack of athletismn as well as lack of a big man.Mikky will help with the athletisism on the big mans part and Hawes will help on having a big man in the middle.

If and if is always a big word

If Artest is motivated and does not distract the team behind the scenes he is a top notch Small forward and a important piece in us winning this year, yes this year

If Hawes can get stronger and score and pass the way he did in college he is a upgrade and can help us win this year.

Our team this year is built to play different players,to have the pieces to exploit matchup problems for other teams. Alot of teams won games against us because we were slow to react on matchup problems last year. The players we have aquired in this off season will help change that.

Will we win the NBA title next year, probably not, but I believe we will have a
more competitve team that will be a lot more fun to watch
Click to expand...
Tell me a plan of action that does "always" work.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#27
#27
This team has been decaying for two years now. Rebuilding is only a word that has been used lately by Petrie and the Maloofs, and even then the word seems to catch in their throats. I haven't seen any rebuilding so far. Is Miki Moore evidence of rebuilding?
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#29
#29
Kingster said:
This team has been decaying for two years now. Rebuilding is only a word that has been used lately by Petrie and the Maloofs, and even then the word seems to catch in their throats. I haven't seen any rebuilding so far. Is Miki Moore evidence of rebuilding?
Click to expand...
Definitely not. While I like the signing, its just another stop-gap signing like we did with SAR and Salmons. Moore is the kinda guy that we could've used back when we were in contention...looks like we got him a few years late
 
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