only 2 games out!

[10bibby10]

while alot of you are talking about blowing the season tryin to get a good pick for next year....if you look at the standings we are only 2 games out of eigth, with the nuggets not gaining too much chemistry yet and the hornets always up and down...if we could get a few wins between losses we will be right there in the run for the 8th or even 7th seed....whos with me???

GO KINGS!!!

 

[jon e]

well for one, were only a game & a half out, and two, i really hope we can get more than a game against dallas in the first round. we still have the 4th toughest remaining schedule in the league which could determine alot

also the clippers are getting worse by the minute. with jason hart at the helm, i expeect that minute to turn into seconds

 

[Miles and Miles]

well for one, were only a game & a half out, and two, i really hope we can get more than a game against dallas in the first round

Huh? We are currently 2 games out of 7th and 8th. Oh and thanks for continuing the negative vibe to this forum. We really needed it.

 

[BMiller52]

Huh? We are currently 2 games out of 7th and 8th. Oh and thanks for continuing the negative vibe to this forum. We really needed it.

How is he continuing a negative vibe? All he said is that Dallas/PHX is better than us by a lot basically(which is 100% true). It's not negative to think we won't even win a game against one of them, it's realistic.

 

[Troy]

How is he continuing a negative vibe? All he said is that Dallas/PHX is better than us by a lot basically(which is 100% true). It's not negative to think we won't even win a game against one of them, it's realistic.

Dallas & Phoenix are not only much better then us, they are in another league as far as how they play compared to almost any other team in the NBA. SA is near the top as well and we play them very well, also we play Phoenix very well. I never understand why we play good teams well, and then lose to teams like Philly, and other bottom dwellers. The only thing I see is the amount of effort put in, we are underachieving to a large degree, and now just lately are playing at or above what our team can do.

We still have a huge gaping hole at 4/5, as far a as a good rebounder/defender/shot blocker, but we are so good at positions 1-3 that we can get away with it if Bibby/KMart/Artest are playing good. We get out rebounded very badly and still have won the last few games. Why we don't play Justin some more, I have no answer, he is what we need to get the rebounds and give lots of energy. Cisco get minutes, not tons, but he gets his time and he is counted on to bring hustle, just like Justin would do at the 4/5 which we need so bad.

 

[tyrant]

This will be a true test for the kings. Winning 3-straight this weekend. 0-2 will be disaster. So im hoping 1-1 at the worst for these next two games. I would love to see sacramento close the gap from the 8th seed asap

 

[BMiller52]

We don't play Dallas and Phoenix well:

http://www.nba.com/games/20061201/SACDAL/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20061205/SACPHX/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20061216/PHXSAC/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20061218/DALSAC/boxscore.html

 

[SacBlaze]

while alot of you are talking about blowing the season tryin to get a good pick for next year....if you look at the standings we are only 2 games out of eigth, with the nuggets not gaining too much chemistry yet and the hornets always up and down...if we could get a few wins between losses we will be right there in the run for the 8th or even 7th seed....whos with me???

GO KINGS!!!

Am with u man! Maybe we can turn this around, i like the way the teams been playing the last couple of days. Alot of ball movement and it seems like Artest knows his role (D first, 3rd option to shoot). I think were not give the team enough credit. But in the Lakers and Blazers game our King lead the whole game, not once did they lose it. Wether u think those to teams suck or not, We were on top the whole time. I just cant see us losing every game the rest of the season. Getting a top pick in the draft. I see us being somewhere in the teens either way due to the east. So why not take a run at the playoffs. Money comes off the books in the offseason, and hit the FA market hard. Just my thoughts

GO KINGS!!

 

[BMiller52]

Am with u man! Maybe we can turn this around, i like the way the teams been playing the last couple of days. Alot of ball movement and it seems like Artest knows his role (D first, 3rd option to shoot). I think were not give the team enough credit. But in the Lakers and Blazers game our King lead the whole game, not once did they lose it. Wether u think those to teams suck or not, We were on top the whole time. I just cant see us losing every game the rest of the season. Getting a top pick in the draft. I see us being somewhere in the teens either way due to the east. So why not take a run at the playoffs. Money comes off the books in the offseason, and hit the FA market hard. Just my thoughts

GO KINGS!!

We won't be able to sign any FAs unless Bibby opts out which is sort of a talent blead anyway. The only way we'll be able to improve is the draft/trades.

 

[hrdboild]

I never thought this team was a lottery team. This team has always been, at it's best, about an 8th seed playoff team. The whole point of hoping for a lottery pick was that, having no cap room and little hope of signing an impact free agent, the only way to break the cycle of repeated mediocrity and to become something more than an 8th seed team with an almost certain first-round playoff elimination looming would be to underperform badly enough to luck into a top draft pick in one of the best draft years on record and come out with a potential marquee player to add to the lineup. And they were well on their way to doing just that. I'm having a hard time getting excited that the team has decided now to play up to it's capabilities, with a .500 record as the ultimate reward and even more mediocrity as the eventual result.

 

[Bricklayer]

1) No money comes off the books in the offseason. Or rather no usable money. We failed to free that up, are still going to be lurking around the cap limit, and so we are again going to have at most the MLE. We will not be major players in the FA market. Nor can we afford to with massive extensions/resignings of Kevin and Ron looming next year.

2) If we continue on our Don Quixote quest we will end up with no chance at lottery gold either.

3) We have a brutal schedule in the last month of the season. Brutal enough to quite probably tip the scales in any sort of "playoff push". Tip the scales just enough to "just miss", which is probably the single biggest failure any organization on the way down can make in professional sports.

4) There is a term for those who refuse to rebuild year after year and actively pursue a 41-41 season and fall short -- we call them "Knicks".

5) So other than no FA money, no shot in the lottery, a longshot at a playoff spot, and a first round squashing by a 60 win team, the plan is wonderful.

6) Root for mediocrity if you must, but given the tone taken here, I consider this thread probably an intentional attempt to stir something up. Make sure you have the goods before proceeding.

 

[BMiller52]

1) No money comes off the books in the offseason. Or rather no usable money. We failed to free that up, are still going to be lurking around the cap limit, and so we are again going to have at most the MLE. We will not be major players in the FA market. Nor can we afford to with massive extensions/resignings of Kevin and Ron looming next year.

2) If we continue on our Don Quixote quest we will end up with no chance at lottery gold either.

3) We have a brutal schedule in the last month of the season. Brutal enough to quite probably tip the scales in any sort of "playoff push". Tip the scales just enough to "just miss", which is probably the single biggest failure any organization on the way down can make in professional sports.

4) There is a term for those who refuse to rebuild year after year and actively pursue a 41-41 season and fall short -- we call them "Knicks".

5) So other than no FA money, no shot in the lottery, a longshot at a playoff spot, and a first round squashing by a 60 win team, the plan is wonderful.

6) I consider this thread probably an intentional attempt to stir something up. Make sure you have the goods before proceeding.

Bricklayer for GM!

 

[sidney]

1) No money comes off the books in the offseason. Or rather no usable money. We failed to free that up, are still going to be lurking around the cap limit, and so we are again going to have at most the MLE. We will not be major players in the FA market. Nor can we afford to with massive extensions/resignings of Kevin and Ron looming next year.

2) If we continue on our Don Quixote quest we will end up with no chance at lottery gold either.

3) We have a brutal schedule in the last month of the season. Brutal enough to quite probably tip the scales in any sort of "playoff push". Tip the scales just enough to "just miss", which is probably the single biggest failure any organization on the way down can make in professional sports.

4) There is a term for those who refuse to rebuild year after year and actively pursue a 41-41 season and fall short -- we call them "Knicks".

5) So other than no FA money, no shot in the lottery, a longshot at a playoff spot, and a first round squashing by a 60 win team, the plan is wonderful.

6) I consider this thread probably an intentional attempt to stir something up. Make sure you have the goods before proceeding.

The tanking strategy would have only worked if the front office had done it before the deadline. That strategy is now over until next season. Done. Completely over. Not worth talking about anymore. It's not a possibility. Might as well talk about what would have happened with Bonzi here this year. #3/4 above IS happening now.

The players and coach are all playing for their personal careers and pride and will hang around the 8th spot or just miss. If we had gone into the last part of the season without Bibby or Artest, we would have a shot at a low draft pick.

Only hope now for future success is that Petrie pulls some uncharactersitic moves around draft day.

Until then...it's just best to try and enjoy the games.

 

[Jerryaki]

but man, did you see that 2-0 weekend we just had?!

i've read a lot about why we shouldn't tank. i still don't see how we can get better if we don't, given bricklayer's points above: no cap space, youth that we've neglected to develop, middling draft pick if we don't tank.

 

[jon e]

Huh? We are currently 2 games out of 7th and 8th. Oh and thanks for continuing the negative vibe to this forum. We really needed it.

no problem! hoping that we can win a game against the dallas mavericks in the playoffs is now negative? i thought that was a great sign of optomism. this isnt disney bs & this season isnt going to have a happy ending no matter how much either of us want it to happen. negative vibe to the forum? i think not. more like a realistic vibe...

 

[SacBlaze]

Dont we have, Corliss, Potapenko, and i belive even though we wavied him J Hart money coming off the books next year? And if Bibby does decide to opt out his money?

I thought we would at least be able to make a couple moves or a big on with the money we had. Not saying he would come here but isnt Billups a FA if Bibby decides to leave?

I think all in all everybody has there reason for the end of the season. Right or wrong. Am all about our team getting better. If we make a run, hit the playoff spot, get bounced first round. I will still be cheering. If we lose the rest of the season, get a good draft pick, and get that going next season, same I will still be cheering.

 

[10bibby10]

Dont we have, Corliss, Potapenko, and i belive even though we wavied him J Hart money coming off the books next year? And if Bibby does decide to opt out his money?

I thought we would at least be able to make a couple moves or a big on with the money we had. Not saying he would come here but isnt Billups a FA if Bibby decides to leave?

I think all in all everybody has there reason for the end of the season. Right or wrong. Am all about our team getting better. If we make a run, hit the playoff spot, get bounced first round. I will still be cheering. If we lose the rest of the season, get a good draft pick, and get that going next season, same I will still be cheering.

touche....

 

[sidney]

Dont we have, Corliss, Potapenko, and i belive even though we wavied him J Hart money coming off the books next year? And if Bibby does decide to opt out his money?

I thought we would at least be able to make a couple moves or a big on with the money we had. Not saying he would come here but isnt Billups a FA if Bibby decides to leave?

Those non-Bibby contracts will keep us well under the tax level but not the cap level, so we won't be in the FA market beyong the MLE. If Bibby opts out, we are under the cap, but then of course we have to replace Bibby unless we want to go into next year with Price starting. So we replace Bibby and then still have holes everywhere else.

 

[VF21]

6) Root for mediocrity if you must, but given the tone taken here, I consider this thread probably an intentional attempt to stir something up. Make sure you have the goods before proceeding.

Hey, a lot of us right now (especially after the past couple of games) are going to root for the current group of players to do the best they can. The future is still the future.

It seems pretty obvious the TEAM is not going to tank. Management is not going to tank. The Maloofs do not subscribe to the "tank" theory. So, whether some people may like it or not, the rest of this season isn't going to be an out-and-out effort to obtain the best possible draft pick. That's pretty much handwriting on the wall at this point.

So what can fans do? They can express their disapproval by not renewing season tickets, not buying merchandise, not going to games, etc. But that's about it. People who want to continue to root for the team are going to find things to root about. It just seems like it's beating a dead horse to keep saying that if we don't tank we're doomed.

We may well be doomed. But we don't know that for sure. If people want to be hopelessly optimistic about the future, their balloons will burst or not regardless of how often "tanking" is brought up as the only viable course for the team to take.

I'm gonna be optimistic. It doesn't cost any more and it certainly makes watching the games a lot more enjoyable for me.

 

[fnordius]

Dont we have, Corliss, Potapenko, and i belive even though we wavied him J Hart money coming off the books next year?

Yes, although Corliss is the perfect role model for our younger players, and it would be a pity to lose him. Just the same, we also have about $4.9M going to the various players (that we're keeping) in increases, which means only $450,000 left over from our savings on Potapenko and Hart. We need to start freeing space for things like re-signing KMart, and doing that while maintaining our roster numbers is going to be tough. Signing a significant FA this offseason might sound nice, but does anyone want to lose Kevin over it? And Billups will be miles out of our price range anyway...

 

[sidney]

It just seems like it's beating a dead horse to keep saying that if we don't tank we're doomed.

Yes, especially since the opportunity to tank is over for the year.

Would have been a fun strategy to watch play out, but it's like bemoaning a free agent that signed elsewhere for weeks....pointless

 

[fnordius]

The flipside is that if we do make the playoffs, owners/management might just decide that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with our current roster + Muss, and coast through another year without fixing anything. It's not just about a draft pick.

 

[Cal-Kings]

I'm with Jerry Reynolds on this one. The draft guarantees you nothing. You might get lucky but the odds are slim. Having the draft as a strategy, IMHO, is for expansion teams.

There's plenty of talent across the board in the NBA. It's a matter of getting teams to work together. Look at San Antonio and Utah. Except for one or two "stars" they're average on talent. But they bring it every game and are in the hunt for a ring.

Miami is full of "stars" and yet, they're barely making the playoffs in the East. They just crawled up to the 7th seed.

And let's not forget the high dollar Jailblazers and how badly they sucked just a few seasons ago even with all that talent.

Yeah, sure. Dallas and Phoenix have the stars and the effort. They're lucky. But are either of them a real lock on a ring? No. They still have to focus, play together, hope for no key injuries and bring it.

There's just more to winning then a roster of names.

There's having a winning attitude. There's demanding that you finish as high as you can in the standings because anything less is not acceptable. There's a standard of winning that an organization has to set.

I'm so against this "lets lose to get a draft pick" attitude...

That attitude applauds laziness and you suddenly find you're the LA Clippers and nobody in their right mind wants to play on your team. All those draft picks jump ship as soon as they can and you have nothing.

So I'll be happy to keep striving for that 8th spot, hoping for a miracle at 7th. And if, after striving we fall just short at 9th, I'll take it over the long term damage that can be done by giving up a winning expectation.

Rebuilding is for teams that have really bottomed-out, like the Sixers, or have reached a point where there's nowhere else to go, or when you're left with 25 fans in the stands, or when you're playing so poorly that rebuilding is actually a step up. And watching the Sixers lately, they're playing harder these days because their young talent feels it's now their team. But they've a lot to overcome in building a winning attitude from scratch. Once you lose it, it takes years to get it back.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yes, especially since the opportunity to tank is over for the year.

No it isn't. There are only six games between us and the third-worst record in the league... there's plenty of time left to tank, if management commits to it.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm with Jerry Reynolds on this one.

Your first mistake. Jerry Reynolds was a complete idiot when he ran the Kings. Nothing has changed, except now he's a talking head.

As for the rest of that post...its not one of your best. Not sure where to even start.

Let's see: you mention Dallas, Phoenix, Miami, Utah and San Antonio in various ways. But seem really shaky on the history. San Antonio DID tank, were rewarded by Duncan, and won a title within 2 years. Phoenix also tanked, blew up a #8 type team when they traded away Marbury et. al., and got Amare (as well as the cap room to get Nash). Miami did not tank so much as lose their franchise guy in Zo, much as we did with Webb. They however went with it and got bad. Because of that they drafted Wade. They won the title last year. Dallas was bad forever. By being bad forever they drafted Dirk (actually traded down 2 spots in the draft to get him). Dirk may well win the MVP this year as his team rolls to a title. Utah lingered too long with the Stockton/Malone duo, took a dive, freed up massive capspace to sign Okur and Boozer, and were bad enough (25 wins) to draft Deron Williams at #3. And whadya know, here they are again.

NONE of those teams even remotely supports your position. Quite the opposite.

As for your proposition that it takes years to clear a losing attitude -- you are right, but not in the way you think you are. It takes years to clear the losing struggle we are engaged in now. The drab medicority. On the other hand teams ROUTINELY change losing attitudes in the space of a year. ROUTINELY. But they do it preceisely by rebuilding. New personnel = new attitude. Every year you see it. Every year. This year its Utah, Toronto, Orlando. Last year the Clippers, Cavs, Lakers and to the degree thye kicked it up a notch, the Mavs. The year before that the Suns, Nuggets etc. etc. Every single year "losing" teams are reborn like the mythological (not city) phoenix becasue they are smart, rebuild, and reemerge. In fact you are ignoring the history of our own franchise: the only reason the Kings ever became good is because they were "losers" with a "losing mentality", and it took all of one summer to change all of that. Big cap room and a FA (Vlade), a lottery pick (JWill) (actually two lottery picks since Peja came over the same year), a good trade (Webb), a total rebuild. And in one year we went from "losers" to NBA darlings.

Being drab is what you cannot recover from. Being boring. Being mediocre. Not having a plan or a hope. Losing is nothing. Its part of the process. Medicority is what is deadly.

 

[Warhawk]

There's plenty of talent across the board in the NBA.

Rebuilding is for teams that have really bottomed-out, like the Sixers, or have reached a point where there's nowhere else to go, or when you're left with 25 fans in the stands, or when you're playing so poorly that rebuilding is actually a step up. And watching the Sixers lately, they're playing harder these days because their young talent feels it's now their team. But they've a lot to overcome in building a winning attitude from scratch. Once you lose it, it takes years to get it back.

There is lots of talent in the NBA - problem is, you need superstar talent to win it all. We don't have it. Good luck getting others to part with it.

Please note we got to the brink and are sliding right back down that hill we climbed. On our a**es. With no realistic hope of getting past the first round. There is "nowhere else to go".

I don't know about you, but I'd rather not get to the point where there are only 25 in the stands. How about getting some young talent to keep them in the stands even when losing, a-la Kevin Martin. Except this year is a much better draft by all accounts, and we could land us the guy that puts us over the top in a couple years with Kevin as "Robin" to the potential "Batman". Instead of hoping for a .500 record every year and being eternally grateful that we manage to play a handful of postseason games every year and not manage to win more than one or two.

I root for the Kings to win every game. I am also smart enough to know that this year isn't "our" year, and other teams will improve in the draft while we will, most likely, stay significantly mediocre with a .500 season and middling draft pick.

 

[Miles and Miles]

I'm with Jerry Reynolds on this one. The draft guarantees you nothing. You might get lucky but the odds are slim. Having the draft as a strategy, IMHO, is for expansion teams.

There's plenty of talent across the board in the NBA. It's a matter of getting teams to work together. Look at San Antonio and Utah. Except for one or two "stars" they're average on talent. But they bring it every game and are in the hunt for a ring.

Miami is full of "stars" and yet, they're barely making the playoffs in the East. They just crawled up to the 7th seed.

And let's not forget the high dollar Jailblazers and how badly they sucked just a few seasons ago even with all that talent.

Yeah, sure. Dallas and Phoenix have the stars and the effort. They're lucky. But are either of them a real lock on a ring? No. They still have to focus, play together, hope for no key injuries and bring it.

There's just more to winning then a roster of names.

There's having a winning attitude. There's demanding that you finish as high as you can in the standings because anything less is not acceptable. There's a standard of winning that an organization has to set.

I'm so against this "lets lose to get a draft pick" attitude...

That attitude applauds laziness and you suddenly find you're the LA Clippers and nobody in their right mind wants to play on your team. All those draft picks jump ship as soon as they can and you have nothing.

So I'll be happy to keep striving for that 8th spot, hoping for a miracle at 7th. And if, after striving we fall just short at 9th, I'll take it over the long term damage that can be done by giving up a winning expectation.

Rebuilding is for teams that have really bottomed-out, like the Sixers, or have reached a point where there's nowhere else to go, or when you're left with 25 fans in the stands, or when you're playing so poorly that rebuilding is actually a step up. And watching the Sixers lately, they're playing harder these days because their young talent feels it's now their team. But they've a lot to overcome in building a winning attitude from scratch. Once you lose it, it takes years to get it back.

Thank you Cal-Kings. Best post on this thread. My feelings exactly except that I am not that insightful. Go Kings. I will be watching the game tomorrow looking for yet another win.

 

[Jerryaki]

Your first mistake. Jerry Reynolds was a complete idiot when he ran the Kings. Nothing has changed, except now he's a talking head.

As for the rest of that post...its not one of your best. Not sure where to even start.

Let's see: you mention Dallas, Phoenix, Miami, Utah and San Antonio in various ways. But seem really shaky on the history. San Antonio DID tank, were rewarded by Duncan, and won a title within 2 years. Phoenix also tanked, blew up a #8 type team when they traded away Marbury et. al., and got Amare (as well as the cap room to get Nash). Miami did not tank so much as lose their franchise guy in Zo, much as we did with Webb. They however went with it and got bad. Because of that they drafted Wade. They won the title last year. Dallas was bad forever. By being bad forever they drafted Dirk (actually traded down 2 spots in the draft to get him). Dirk may well win the MVP this year as his team rolls to a title. Utah lingered too long with the Stockton/Malone duo, took a dive, freed up massive capspace to sign Okur and Boozer, and were bad enough (25 wins) to draft Deron Williams at #3. And whadya know, here they are again.

NONE of those teams even remotely supports your position. Quite the opposite.

As for your proposition that it takes years to clear a losing attitude -- you are right, but not in the way you think you are. It takes years to clear the losing struggle we are engaged in now. The drab medicority. On the other hand teams ROUTINELY change losing attitudes in the space of a year. ROUTINELY. But they do it preceisely by rebuilding. New personnel = new attitude. Every year you see it. Every year. This year its Utah, Toronto, Orlando. Last year the Clippers, Cavs, Lakers and to the degree thye kicked it up a notch, the Mavs. The year before that the Suns, Nuggets etc. etc. Every single year "losing" teams are reborn like the mythological (not city) phoenix becasue they are smart, rebuild, and reemerge. In fact you are ignoring the history of our own franchise: the only reason the Kings ever became good is because they were "losers" with a "losing mentality", and it took all of one summer to change all of that. Big cap room and a FA (Vlade), a lottery pick (JWill) (actually two lottery picks since Peja came over the same year), a good trade (Webb), a total rebuild. And in one year we went from "losers" to NBA darlings.

Being drab is what you cannot recover from. Being boring. Being mediocre. Not having a plan or a hope. Losing is nothing. Its part of the process. Medicority is what is deadly.

Thank you Bricklayer. Best post on this thread.


Cal-King said that he doesn't want this team to give up a "winning expectation." We have no winning expectation this year. And "rebuilding' is not "laziness." It's evaluating what we have in Price, Douby, and Williams. We might as well, since Artest and Bibby are not the caliber of players to take us all the way.

***
ETA: as I finished this, i see that artest has been arrested on charges of domestic violence. let's keep going for that 8th seed!!!

 

[sidney]

No it isn't. There are only six games between us and the third-worst record in the league... there's plenty of time left to tank, if management commits to it.

Management had their chance to commit to it at the deadline. They didn't

Now you are going to try and convince a coach that may be looking at his last chance as a head coach to play young players to improve the team in the long term? Won't happen

Play Mike and Ron 25 minutes a game and kill their trade value and pee them off? Fan and league revolt since it would be so obviously anti-competitive.

Tell Mike to play poorly? Right as he's thinking about his reputation and next contract? Not a chance.

The chance for tanking is over, unless this Ron arrest that was just posted brings a surprise tank that no one could have expected.

 

[parker]

Hey, a lot of us right now (especially after the past couple of games) are going to root for the current group of players to do the best they can. The future is still the future.

It seems pretty obvious the TEAM is not going to tank. Management is not going to tank. The Maloofs do not subscribe to the "tank" theory. So, whether some people may like it or not, the rest of this season isn't going to be an out-and-out effort to obtain the best possible draft pick. That's pretty much handwriting on the wall at this point.......

We may well be doomed. But we don't know that for sure. If people want to be hopelessly optimistic about the future, their balloons will burst or not regardless of how often "tanking" is brought up as the only viable course for the team to take.

I'm gonna be optimistic. It doesn't cost any more and it certainly makes watching the games a lot more enjoyable for me.

This is the best post of this thread. As Ram Dass said, "Be here now."