Allen Iverson - MERGED

[Bricklayer]

Dalembert >> Hunter.

Hunter is a borderline non-rebounding soft as butter scrub. A one trick all for show shotblocker. Does nothing else and none of the tough scrappy play you hope to get out of an interior defender. He's better than nothing, but has fewer tools than Dalembert.

Dalmenebrt is a mess, but he's an imposing mess filling both our needs for shtoblocking and rebounding, and filling A.I.'s need for a player who doesn't need to shoot to matter. And in additon Mo has issues wiht him, and the Sixers have been nervous about his contract. Doesn't mean we COULD get him too. But does mean that IF we could we could end up robbing the Sixers blind and filling virtually all our holes at once.

I actually think the BEST frontcourt combo for Iverson would be Dalembert, Thomas AND Miller. At least on paper. Iverson has failed with both Thomas and Dalmebert in his frontcourt before, and frustrated the hell out of Webb, who plays somewhat like Miller anymore.

In any case, having Iverson isn't going to matter if we can't shut down the middle, at least in a championship sense. I'm well aware that having Daly hasn't exactly allowed the Sixers to turn into defensive juggernaughts, but neither has having Hunter. And despite the very real questions about whether Daly is getting any better or will get any better, its a virtual certainty that Hunter is nothing but a career 17min roleplayer. We don't need a 17 min roleplayer of shotblocking -- that's approching having one jsut to say you have one stuff. We need somebody who might be able to go 32-35 of shotblocking and be there constantly for us.

 

[chelle]

I'm still not interested in having AI. If he comes here, I will support him. I have always enjoyed watching him play. I just do not see how he and Srtest could coexist. I really do not want this trade to happen. We need something. That is obvious. I just do not think this is it.

If we hear Mike say, "I want to finish my career in Sac., or I want to retire a King," I think the trade will happen. That is our sign that he is as good as gone.

 

[nbrans]

Dalembert >> Hunter.

Hunter is a borderline non-rebounding soft as butter scrub. A one trick all for show shotblocker. Does nothing else and none of the tough scrappy play you hope to get out of an interior defender. He's better than nothing, but has fewer tools than Dalembert.

Dalmenebrt is a mess, but he's an imposing mess filling both our needs for shtoblocking and rebounding, and filling A.I.'s need for a player who doesn't need to shoot to matter. And in additon Mo has issues wiht him, and the Sixers have been nervous about his contract. Doesn't mean we COULD get him too. But does mean that IF we could we could end up robbing the Sixers blind and filling virtually all our holes at once.

I actually think the BEST frontcourt combo for Iverson would be Dalembert, Thomas AND Miller. At least on paper. Iverson has failed with both Thomas and Dalmebert in his frontcourt before, and frustrated the hell out of Webb, who plays somewhat like Miller anymore.

In any case, having Iverson isn't going to matter if we can't shut down the middle, at least in a championship sense. I'm well aware that having Daly hasn't exactly allowed the Sixers to turn into defensive juggernaughts, but neither has having Hunter. And despite the very real questions about whether Daly is getting any better or will get any better, its a virtual certainty that Hunter is nothing but a career 17min roleplayer. We don't need a 17 min roleplayer of shotblocking -- that's approching having one jsut to say you have one stuff. We need somebody who might be able to go 32-35 of shotblocking and be there constantly for us.

I think you mkke good points, but I don't think Dalembert is good enough to be on the floor for 32-35 minutes on a good team. He's just too clueless to have much of an impact on the defensive end beyond the occasional shotblock -- he has no concept of help defense, and he fouls and goaltends like he doesn't have a brain. So ultimately I feel like Hunter @ $3 million > Dalembert @ $10 million and I'd still take Miller (at least the Miller of previous seasons) out of all three.

Definitely, definitely agree that the Kings need someone to control the paint with AI, get offensive boards, shotblock etc. etc. That is probably the second step that would be necessary to push the Kings over the top. I just don't think Dalembert is that guy.

 

[Roman]

I'm not quite so down on Bibby, but that's a really good point about someone being able to take it to the rim at will. It would be nice for the Kings to get those calls for a change. If it were Iverson driving for that overtime layup rather than Bibby, do you think he would've gotten the foul call? I'd say yes, and I'd say that would've been a win.

I say no.

It's rare to see a foul call on the final shot unless it is so blatant that the player was grounded. I really didn't think that was the case the other night. I don't think if the roles were reversed the other night and it was Wade with the layup attemp and no call that we'd think we got away lucky. It's one of the reasons post players are notoriously bad last second shooters. It's hard to get the contact call.

But, Iverson has only ever hit one game winning shot in his career. One.

Iverson does get a lot of phantom foul calls though.

I just think I'd tear my hair out watching Iverson launch 24 shots a game.

 

[SacKings384]

Why does nobody want AI? What teamate has EVER complained about playing for Iverson? Even Larry Brown on some level had a love for Iverson. He goes out there and plays hard EVERY night. He plays better defense than Bibby, and he can score AND pass like very few in this league. Of course no way we get him for Bibby and Thomas if they throw in Hunter. But if we could get him for the right price, I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Honolulu Kings Fan]

Give Mike a little more credit than that...He shouldn't have even played in hallf those games. That comparison isn't fair...pull up their career stats and in particular their THREE POINT %'s and that's the point that I'm making. Iverson doesn't even come close to Mike from downtonw.

I agree. I said, "I know that Bibby is injured and it is affecting his shooting, so I don't know why he hasn't taken off time to heal that hand earlier instead of continue to have trouble with his shot"". So why hasn't he sat out a couple games to recuperate instead of shooting poorly all season?


..........FG% |3p%|FT% |RPG|AST|STL|BLK| TO | | PF | PPG
Allen I .421 .309 .778 3.9 6.1 2.3 0.1 3.74 2.10 28.1
Mike B .444 .368 .807 3.3 6.4 1.3 0.1 2.50 2.00 16.8

There you go, career stats. Bibby is a total of 6% better from downtown. However, I think that Iverson's defensive skills make up for that 6%. Besides that a 6% difference means making 2 more 3pts out of every 30. Compare (11/30 for Bibby to 9/30 for Iverson)

 

[BawLa]

-The main point is that we would have a go-to guy. That is something we have not boasted since the Webber days.

-We have a team full of secondary players, so if you ever want to get something going you need a primary player in the mix.

-Most people are so caught up with the idea that Iverson is a ball hog that they don't realize he averages over 7 assists per game on a team that does not have shooters. Iguodala? Dalembert? Ollie? Not exactly a group of starters that will knock down the open shot. I belive he would average a double-double with us.

-How exactly would Kevin's growth be stunted? Because he would have to wait for the ball instead of start with it? Kevin is a scorer, and more importantly a finisher. Him and Allen would make a dynamic duo. If anything, he would become Allen's main assistee.

-Anyone could defend better than Bibby so that would be an improvement.

-We have no team chemistry yet. We are still trying to figure out what chemicals to use. So I don't think he could hurt our chemistry on the court at least. If anything it would give the guys a proven superstar to rally around.


The only main reason you wouldn't want to bring him here is because of the possibility of an implosion. But at the rate we are going that might be inevitable. Bringing in Allen would mean that we would only need a roleplaying big instead of a star big man. Which should be much easier to find.

 

[Lamar_Odom]

I read in lakersground.net that the Celtics and the Clippers are the two teams that are leaders in the pursuit of AI. I don't know how reliable it is but it was stated that Maggette + Livinston for AI is hot right now.

 

[Sluggah]

So there are a handful of rumors out there on which teams are interested in Iverson, and which teams Iverson is interested in.

Lets say as a general round up, those teams consist of Minnesota, Boston, Chicago, Clippers, Denver, Indiana and us.

If Philly were to like what we can offer most...but our interest in Iverson is a bit shakey like it appears on the board...

Are there any realistic players from those other teams that anyone would be interested in as a possible 3 team deal?

I'm pretty torn in general, but like the idea of a shake-up.

I need false hopes just plausible enough to excite me.

 

[Nazman]

As a Philly born and raised who has long preferred the Kings since moving out here some time ago i gotta confess i haven't been an AI fan for years. Loved when they drafted him but the love affair went sour fairly quickly. Have long stated that AI would never win a championship (maybe KG could make me a liar but i doubt it) and am shocked that he is even being mentioned as a potential King.

Hate to say it but he reminds me of another Philly Phailure - that being Terrell Owens. Self absorbed and increasingly disruptive. Philly has always catered to this guy but enough is enough.

It is rather tempting to consider an effective cutter/slasher/shooter that would finally bring the double(triple) teams that could open things up for our scorers but it is all too likely that there will be terrible repercussions which are already being discussed, like Salmons, who i continue to appreciate and the reported history between Thomas and AI.

The Maloofs are gamblers but i am hoping he goes to Minny. Let them experiment. AI is NOT the answer in my humble opinion. There are many roads to the finish line...

 

[BawLa]

I read in lakersground.net that the Celtics and the Clippers are the two teams that are leaders in the pursuit of AI. I don't know how reliable it is but it was stated that Maggette + Livinston for AI is hot right now.

Dude, I remember last time you posted something about that LA Propaganda website and it was trash. Something about Luke Walton being good or something. Anyway there is no way they would do that trade just based on logic. First if you are Philly then you aren't getting a ballhandler in return. Livingston as a starting PG? Hah. Then you add the fact that Iguodala is a beast for them at SF and therefore it would be a logjam with Magette. Then from the Clipps side why would they give up their only SF? Answer is: they won't. Plus Philly probably wants a draft pick and/or young talent on top of expiring contracts. Then you add the fact that those salaries don't match up so who would the fillers be? Sounds like more trash from the same LA Propaganda website. Thats called a pipedream -- as in the type of dream you get from smokin' too much pipe.

 

[nbrans]

Ok, so, after reading a bunch of articles over the past couple of hours, I really think it comes down to Dallas, Boston, Clippers and Kings. Minnesota's owner says they're out. Chicago doesn't seem interested. Karl has said Denver isn't interested, and even still, their deal would have to be centered around Andre Miller, and I can't see Philly trading AI for a 30 year old point guard. And since they're playing well and with the rise of JR Smith I don't really see Denver making a big change anyway.

So here's how I see it on the four teams above:

Dallas
Dallas has the expirings (Stackhouse/Croshere). Philly is rumored to want Devin Harris, and Cuban says he's opposed to trading Harris. Other than Harris there's nothing Dallas could really offer that would have any appeal to Philly, except possibly Diop, and I can't see a Diop/Stack/Croshere deal getting it done. If Devin Harris is offered, though, I'd have to think Dallas are the frontrunners.

Boston
A deal centered around Ratliff (expiring after next season) and two of their young player. What I'm reading though (such as this article from Sporting News), is that people around the league are less than impressed with Boston's young players. I mean, Delonte West seems like a nice enough player, but is that who you really want to replace AI with? Shades of Barkley for Hornacek/Perry/Lnag.

Clippers
Maggette and Livingston is a start. And I guess you could throw in Rebraca to finish off the deal, which just squeaks over the 125% rule. I just don't think the pieces add up for the Clippers. Maggette/Livingston would surely be an appealing nucleus for Philly, but with their already thin roster I'm not sure the Clippers would have anything left after the trade (Cassel/AI/Ross/Brand/Kaman with Mobley and Tim Thomas would essentially be their entire team), nor am I sure they'd want to part with Livingston just yet. (Also, in this scenario Philly would have to cut two players because they already have 15 on their roster). UPDATE: the LA Times is quoting a team source saying the Clippers aren't interested in AI.

Kings
And then there's Sacramento. Assuming Bibby appeals to the Sixers, which is no sure thing given his uncertain contract status, the Kings can offer a mix of expirings, an affordable big in SAR a pick for AI along with one of the contracts Philly doesn't like. The problem with the Kings is that I don't think we'd want to part with Martin, and I don't know how appealing the other young players on the roster are. I think we may be more high on Garcia than other people in the league. But I really think the Kings would have to be in the mix with Bibby and expirings.

 

[Starting Five]

We need a shot-blocker on this team. AI for Bibby-Corliss-Hart isn't going to help this team block shots or contest lay-ups. I would be in favor of a three-team deal that would get us a decent shot-blocker.

The season is still young and we can still make the playoffs. We would be lacking if Ronnie Price was are starting point guard, but I think it's easier to add on a point guard..than a big man in middle.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Ohhhh. Kind of like Fourth of July fireworks - but in December?

Hey, why not? At this point, what do we have to lose?

Agreed. I was thinking the same thing before the season started, actually...I think doing this would bring us back into contention, theoretically, and I'm sure that if Allen wants to go elsewhere after this season, Geoff would have no problem finding the right deal, especially if Allen brings his "A" game the rest of this season, that would be VERY attractive to other teams, which leaves us a ton of money to play around with in the offseason, with all our enders. So what the heck...do it Geoff!

 

[nbrans]

We need a shot-blocker on this team. AI for Bibby-Corliss-Hart isn't going to help this team block shots or contest lay-ups. I would be in favor of a three-team deal that would get us a decent shot-blocker.

The season is still young and we can still make the playoffs. We be lacking if Ronnie Price was are starting point guard, but I think it's easier to add on a point guard..than a big man in middle.

There's always free agency. If the Kings could include Shareef in the deal or trade him for an expiring (PJ Brown?) there could be some room to go after someone like Anderson Verejao. He's not a great shotblocker yet, but he's the right kind of dirty work rebounder/defender that could be a good fit.

 

[hrdboild]

I would not be in favor of acquiring Dalembert. At one time, sure. When he was a natural shot blocker with the potential of maybe being something more. But it's pretty clear now that his potential is used up and you're getting one of the lowest basketball IQs in the league along with your shotblocking and another huge salary. Keep Miller. He's not a defensive force, but he's a smart player. He can set picks and find cutters. And he'll open up the key which is what we'd want with Iverson. I'd prefer we trade Shareef than Brad. He's got a reasonable salary for what he can do, but he's not much use to this team right now. Of course, we'd still need someone to guard Duncan, Yao, Howard, etc. Someone needs to figure out a fix for that problem, but I don't think it's Dalembert. I think you can find a weakside shotblocker somewhere for less than 10 million per year who'd do what Dalembert does and you'd still need a post defender anyway.

Dallas maybe has a deal if they include Devin Harris, which Cuban has already said he won't do.
Boston maybe has a deal if Philly wants one of their young point guards and bigs. Same division though.
Clippers maybe have a deal if they're willing to give up Livingston (which I doubt) and Maggette, although with Iggy I'm not sure Philly needs Maggette anyway.
And then there's the Kings -- Bibby would be the best player anyone is offering, and he's already very comfortable with CWebb (ie Mr. Untradeable), but he may opt out. So unless they plan to pay him, they wouldn't be getting much. Someone like Garcia or Douby might make the deal seem a little less risky.

I would have pegged Minne as the favorite, but not after the owner flat out said "we can't afford him"

 

[Bricklayer]

If the Clippers really are willing to go Maggette/Livingston, I would think ding ding ding you have your winner, unless we were willing to part with Martin, which I'm not sure makes sense for us. Unless we were willing to put out the ultra mini Bibby/Iverson backcourt.... but...

 

[nbrans]

If the Clippers really are willing to go Maggette/Livingston, I would think ding ding ding you have your winner, unless we were willing to part with Martin, which I'm not sure makes sense for us. Unless we were willing to put out the ultra mini Bibby/Iverson backcourt.... but...

Yeah, I'd agree. Luckily:

"The Clippers are not interested in acquiring Philadelphia 76ers guard Allen Iverson, a team source said.

There has been speculation that the Clippers would be among the teams in the bidding for the disgruntled All-Star, but Iverson's style of play and contract would not be a good fit with the Clippers, the source said."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baske...ec09,0,2762170.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

 

[Bricklayer]

Yeah, I'd agree. Luckily:

"The Clippers are not interested in acquiring Philadelphia 76ers guard Allen Iverson, a team source said.

There has been speculation that the Clippers would be among the teams in the bidding for the disgruntled All-Star, but Iverson's style of play and contract would not be a good fit with the Clippers, the source said."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baske...ec09,0,2762170.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

Well...I GUESS that's lucky.

In any case, smart by the Clippers I think. I never understood how/why they thought his style of play would work on a team built around Brand.

 

[Kingzrool]

With AI on offense, maybe Ron could settle down, trust that the O is taken care of and fully focus on D. With the way the Maloofs are, I could barely see them passing this up.

 

[WalMatt23]

Although the clippers/timberwolves are saying they're not interested/can't afford Iverson, I'm not sure I believe them. I mean, Philly is the one who is in the weakest position here. Sure, they have the all-star/possible hall of famer to deal, but everyone around the league knows they HAVE to deal him. They could all just be posturing for a better negotiating position with all these comments made in the media. Probably looking to low-ball Philly.

If thats the case, and these teams are mostly offering scrubs + expirings, that may put us in a legitimate position to negotiate a trade involving Bibby. I would think bibby > maggette + trash or ricky davis/mike james + trash.

At the very least, Bibby is probably an expiring contract, so if Philly doesn't want to continue the relationship, they could let him walk after he opts out at the end of the season. It just seems to me we have the best to offer unless the Clipps or Wolves pony up with livingston or foye. Of course, I may be over-valuing Bibby. Who knows how the rest of the league views him.

 

[Elise10]

I know that Mike would be comfortable with Webber but would he really like being in cold Philly weather in the winter or that his father is an assistant coach?

 

[WalMatt23]

another thing to keep in mind is I believe Bibby has a trade kicker attached to his contract. However, he could wave it like Webb did.

 

[VF21]

If we've learned anything over the past few years, it's that player comfort isn't a major consideration in trades.

Those guys are being paid mega bucks to play a game. At some point, they have to accept it might not be exactly where they'd like to play but oh well...

 

[Gargamel]

I read in lakersground.net...


I don't know how reliable it is

It's not reliable.

 

[Elise10]

If we've learned anything over the past few years, it's that player comfort isn't a major consideration in trades.

Those guys are being paid mega bucks to play a game. At some point, they have to accept it might not be exactly where they'd like to play but oh well...

I'm aware of it. People are going on and on about the possibility of him being reunited with Chris as a positive that's why I brought it up.

My own opinion, I'd rather see this current team semi-healthy first before the Maloofs-Petrie before such a deal as this is made. Talentwise it's not even close with a guy heading to the HOF vs. a guy who's never even made an all-star team, but I also feel that the negative baggage that Allen brings combined with the volatile Ron is just not something I am ready for yet.

No player will come right out and say they didn't like playing with AI. He's a marvelous talent, but I do know that I've heard both Kenny and John have said something towards the phrase "being passed the ball"

 

[Gargamel]

And in the midst of all the drama, we have this:



Two words, Jim... Caller identification.

You might want to consider it.

If they did that, they wouldn't be first to the scoop.

Damn, Dan Rather kept talking to one of Howard Stern's fans on live TV after the guy said, "Howard Stern etc etc etc...". The guy actually got disgusted w/ Rather's obliviousness and called him an idiot and then hung up.

 

[y2kings]

Salmons and thomas...who?

I might be in the minority in this but I'm not that impressed wiht Salmons. It is VERY VERY surprising after seeing his shooting ability that the SUNS wanted this guy. He just isn't a fluid player who just like Kenny holds the ball too long at times. I dont see why they'd have issues with AI because both Kenny and Salmons aren't the greatest passers. They both take the ball and usually hold it for a while...maybe that's why they didnt like playing with AI...but these arent elite players. it's hard to take the word or really consider what non-elite players have to say about great playrs like AI

 

[BawLa]

No player will come right out and say they didn't like playing with AI. He's a marvelous talent, but I do know that I've heard both Kenny and John have said something towards the phrase "being passed the ball"

Good points. Maybe an answer for that is that both Salmons and KT overvalue their own talent. Therefore they aren't willing to sacrifice what they think they can do. I like what i've seen from Salmons so far in a Kings uni. However, there are times where he has a small look that he wants to step up and take on a bigger role. Kenny too. And I don't mind that mindset, but they have to be real about their own abilities too. With a guy like Allen you are going to be sitting back and watching often on the offensive side. You can only be successful with a guy like that if everyone around him is willing to fill the edges, so to speak.

 

[Elise10]

I might be in the minority in this but I'm not that impressed wiht Salmons. It is VERY VERY surprising after seeing his shooting ability that the SUNS wanted this guy. He just isn't a fluid player who just like Kenny holds the ball too long at times. I dont see why they'd have issues with AI because both Kenny and Salmons aren't the greatest passers. They both take the ball and usually hold it for a while...maybe that's why they didnt like playing with AI...but these arent elite players. it's hard to take the word or really consider what non-elite players have to say about great playrs like AI

How many "elite" players have been teammates of AI as a 76er?