NBA Beat: Miami isn't exactly turning up the Heat

VF21

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SME
#1
http://www.sacbee.com/351/story/83074.html

NBA Beat: Miami isn't exactly turning up the Heat
By Scott Howard-Cooper - Bee Staff Writer
Last Updated 12:42 am PST Sunday, November 26, 2006
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C5


League officials scheduled games for the Miami Heat, so the defending champions keep showing up. But it's a tough sell that these are the defending champions and, come to think of it, that they're really showing up.

A pile of November losses is no big deal for a veteran, playoff-proven team that can keep hitting the snooze button until the All-Star break. But these are no ordinary losses. Try losses by 15 points to New Orleans and 20 to San Antonio -- within about 24 hours of each other -- and by 24 to New York and 22 to Houston.

Shaquille O'Neal is out for another month or so after a knee operation, and Jason Williams could go back on the shelf -- or at least put on day-to-day status -- amid concerns he returned too soon from his own knee surgery. Not that there's ever anything wrong with Dwyane Wade leading the recovery, but he's already logging about 40 minutes a game after playing to June 20 with the Heat, then embarking on duty with Team USA.

Now Wade gets to do the real heavy lifting until O'Neal returns, then gets to do it some more until Shaq builds into shape with pitchers and catchers. In the meantime, Wade is surrounded in the starting lineup by 38-year-old Gary Payton without any guarantees on the availability of J-Will to help with the ballhandling, 36-year-old Alonzo Mourning and 30-year-old Antoine Walker.

The 4-8 record in the first month suddenly becomes a cautionary tale of what could happen around playoff time, as well. O'Neal on auto pilot during the regular season, then doing damage when it matters most has worked before, except this isn't before. Everyone is marking time now.

Powering up

The star-crossed path of Carlos Boozer is finally littered with something other than his tattered reputation, returning Boozer to the ranks of bright young star and the Utah Jazz to the upper echelon of the league.

Posting 22.7 points, 12.7 rebounds and 59.9 percent shooting in the first 12 games at power forward was an especially meaningful boost because Andrei Kirilenko, the standout small forward, had missed the last five with a sprained ankle. But doing it at all was the real significance after signing a six-year, $68 million free-agent deal with the Jazz in 2004. Soon after, he was ripped by Jazz owner Larry Miller for a lack of heart as Boozer's first two seasons in Utah were derailed by injury. Coach Jerry Sloan made similar comments that required only slight reading between the lines.

"When you can play, you can answer your critics," said Boozer, who played in 33 games in 2005-06 and in 51 the season before. "When you're sitting on the bench trying to get your hamstrings healthy, you can't answer the critics."

Sun set

Boris Diaw got his starting job back in Phoenix after a temporary benching, but the search continues for the swingman who catapulted from two nondescript seasons into being named the 2005-06 Most Improved Player.

On the other hand, a lot of Suns have been missing the first month, so they're all big on patience for the moment.

It's just that Diaw now has the burden of raised expectations in the wake of averaging 13.3 points, 6.9 rebounds and 6.2 assists, which, by some coincidence, came in a contract year. Phoenix bit -- five years, $45 million -- only to have Diaw report to camp out of shape and then struggle.

The Suns say they are not greatly concerned and that Diaw's conditioning was caused more by circumstance than commitment. He went from playing into the Western Conference finals to playing for France in the world championships, meaning that his time to recharge would have to come in the month before camp opened. Adding to that, the exhibition schedule included a two-week trip to Italy and Germany, where promotional appearances and tourism were mixed with games and practices.

Shortsighted

David 2, Goliath 0.

New York's Nate Robinson, all 5-foot-9 of him, had barely completed the re-entry to Earth's atmosphere after Monday's instant-classic block of 7-5 Yao Ming at Madison Square Garden when 6-2 Ronnie Price of the Kings took off along the baseline Wednesday at Arco Arena and kept taking off. By the time Price floated past the 6-8 Boozer and finished the hellacious dunk, it had become a forever week for the little guys.

Right on schedule

The predictable recovery of the Dallas Mavericks from an 0-4 start was just as predictable in its timing. The seven consecutive victories that answered the losing streak were against teams with losing records. The six total opponents were a combined 21-47. However, Dallas then won at San Antonio on Friday night.

About the writer: The Bee's Scott Howard- Cooper can be reached at showard-cooper@sacbee.com.
 
#2
Why is it that Carmelo and Lebron, who also played on team USA, (among others), don't seem to have a problem or use that as an excuse when their team loses a game??
It seems that the defending champs would be able to put up a better fight in a onference where only 3 teams have a winning record, (vs. the west where only 1 team is under .500).
 
#3
When the Lakers traded Shaq, Mitch Kupchak stated that it will take some time before the Lakers see the benefits of that trade. I think this is what he is talking about. Shaq looks over the hill, is owed a lot of money, and has taken his annual time off, this time with surgery. I just love the way Wade justifies his losing. Now show us you're worthy of the MVP balloting when Shaq isn't around. Ha!
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#4
When the Lakers traded Shaq, Mitch Kupchak stated that it will take some time before the Lakers see the benefits of that trade. I think this is what he is talking about. Shaq looks over the hill, is owed a lot of money, and has taken his annual time off, this time with surgery. I just love the way Wade justifies his losing. Now show us you're worthy of the MVP balloting when Shaq isn't around. Ha!
Given a long enough window almost any trade of an older player for a younger one will bear benefits. If the Spurs traded Duncan for Darko today, or the Suns Nash for Felton, 5 years from now there woiuld be "benefits" as the older guys slowed with age/retired. That's not really the question.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#5
The Lakers traded Shat for Lamar Odom, Brian Grant (who's retired, though interestingly still on their payroll) and Caron Butler (who's now in DC). Since the trade, they failed to qualify for the playoffs one year (which netted them Bynum... lucky ****ers), and lost in the first round the following year. Meanwhile, Miami made it to the Conference Finals one year, and won the whole damned ball of wax the following year.

So, AFAIC, the Heat win that trade, unless 1) the Lakers win another championship before Shat retires, or 2) the Lakers win at least 2 championships after Shat retires, but with Bynum in a Lakers uniform.
 
#6
The Lakers traded Shat for Lamar Odom, Brian Grant (who's retired, though interestingly still on their payroll) and Caron Butler (who's now in DC). Since the trade, they failed to qualify for the playoffs one year (which netted them Bynum... lucky ****ers), and lost in the first round the following year. Meanwhile, Miami made it to the Conference Finals one year, and won the whole damned ball of wax the following year.

So, AFAIC, the Heat win that trade, unless 1) the Lakers win another championship before Shat retires, or 2) the Lakers win at least 2 championships after Shat retires, but with Bynum in a Lakers uniform.
I guess we have differing opinions on the trade...let the Heat have their one and only (IMO) championship. If there was no trade...Kobe would most likely have been gone..Shaq with an even more outrageous contract than the one he most likely will not play out in Miami, leaving the Lakers in an even worse place financially..and no Bynum. I will take missing the playoffs once every 10-15 years as long as they keep the guy that improves his game each year, add a few young pieces and get PJ to return. (With the new relationship of PJ and Kobe...looks like, and has been said, that Shaq was the bigger problem in that triangle.)
Buss knows how to build championship teams...they'll be back..sooner rather than later.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#11
The one good thing (to me) about Miami winning the championship last year was that it, as far as my best friend John and I are concerned, validated our opinion that Kobe Bryant is, at least, somewhat overrated. We've heard many arguments that Shat didn't win a championship until Bryant started to hit his stride, and we've always countered with the argument that, when Shat was in his prime, you could have paired him up with any of the top 10 SG in the league, and they would have won three Championships, too... Hell, when Shat was in his prime, you could have paired him up with any of the top 20 SGs in the league, and they would have at least made the Finals.
 
#12
He was swept in his first finals...and last year in the finals, I thought Zo was more effective actually. Shaq's such a detrement in crunch time....

While Kobe has his problems, how is he overrated when LJ, and Wade receive most of the accolades and have the past couple years?..even before Wade got his ring last year. Lebron was getting the hype machine before his team even made it to the playoffs...while Carmello led his team in. (Personally, I think Carmello is a more complete player than LJ.)

We'll always see Kobe's +'s and -'s differently, I suppose.

Thanks for the discussion.:)
 
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#13
Let's see Wade be the superstar they herald him to be w/o Shaq. I doubt the referees can save his team now. I agree with hoops... that was their one and ony championship. It will never happen again.
 
#14
Why is it that Carmelo and Lebron, who also played on team USA, (among others), don't seem to have a problem or use that as an excuse when their team loses a game??
It seems that the defending champs would be able to put up a better fight in a onference where only 3 teams have a winning record, (vs. the west where only 1 team is under .500).
Wade was in the finals of the PO's and had a longer NBA season than the others. His time off between the finals and the US trials was much shorter than say Johnson who was done in April. That month or 2 really makes a difference.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#15
He was swept in his first finals...
I said in his prime, though; he hadn't hit his prime yet for his first Finals. And yeah, during that run the Lakers had from 2000-2002, I honestly believe that you could have put any top-15 SG in the league with Shat, and he still would have won 3 rings.

Sorry, but you'll never convince me that, with the way O'Neal was playing from 00-02, that he couldn't have won just as easily with Ray Allen, or Tracy McGrady, or Vince Carter. Hell, in 2001, he might have won a ring with David Wesley.
 
#16
Wade was in the finals of the PO's and had a longer NBA season than the others. His time off between the finals and the US trials was much shorter than say Johnson who was done in April. That month or 2 really makes a difference.
So that excuse only applies to Wade? Other players have had less layoff for years and never pulled that excuse out of the bag.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
I seriously doubt if your physical condition has anything to do with whether or not the Miami Heat wins a championship... Seriously.
 
#20
I seriously doubt if your physical condition has anything to do with whether or not the Miami Heat wins a championship... Seriously.
LOL. Not his, that's for sure.

I do think it does for the Heat. A healthy Shaq and a healthy Mourning would still do a lot of damage. But it's not going to happen. Shaq has never been committed to physical conditioning, he cruises during the regular season, takes his 4-6 weeks of injury time off, and hopes to catch up by the end of the regular season.

I agree with one of the posters in this thread - the Heat are one-time wonders, won't win again with Shaq in the team, so much more when Shaq is gone. He will leave the team's cap all screwed up, with hardly anything to work with other than the exceptions.

Lastly, I'd be surprised if the Heat will make the second round this year. Shaq, Mourning, Payton, Walker, are all pretty much in the last legs of their careers. Couple into that the oft-injured JWills, and it's trouble. Actually, at this rate, for them, the lottery is not so far-fetched.
 
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#21
I said in his prime, though; he hadn't hit his prime yet for his first Finals. And yeah, during that run the Lakers had from 2000-2002, I honestly believe that you could have put any top-15 SG in the league with Shat, and he still would have won 3 rings.

Sorry, but you'll never convince me that, with the way O'Neal was playing from 00-02, that he couldn't have won just as easily with Ray Allen, or Tracy McGrady, or Vince Carter. Hell, in 2001, he might have won a ring with David Wesley.
The problem I have with this is you make it sound easy for players to take a back seat while still being one of the best in the league. You put two superstars on a team together and a lot of the times one of them will suffer. One guys production will decrease due to having to share the ball with another star player. Shaq and Kobe was the opposite of that.

Truth is Wade isn't having to deal with the offense running through Shaq. Age and the new defensive rules severally limits the big guys touches. When Shaq was in his glory days in LA he easily would get 20 FGA's PER GAME.
 
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#22
The one good thing (to me) about Miami winning the championship last year was that it, as far as my best friend John and I are concerned, validated our opinion that Kobe Bryant is, at least, somewhat overrated. We've heard many arguments that Shat didn't win a championship until Bryant started to hit his stride, and we've always countered with the argument that, when Shat was in his prime, you could have paired him up with any of the top 10 SG in the league, and they would have won three Championships, too... Hell, when Shat was in his prime, you could have paired him up with any of the top 20 SGs in the league, and they would have at least made the Finals.
I think top 10 SGs is too many for this arguement. We'd have to use some SFs and tweener PGs to even arrive at 10 possible guys he could've won a title with. Then you have to take that team's coach into account noting that the Heat had to replace SVG with Pat (fricken) Riley. You're also assuming that any of the other 10 SGs/SFs could have played as well as Kobe did against the 2000 Blazers, the Spurs' defense, or the 2002 Kings. That's the biggest chink in this argument. Another side issue is that I have no doubt in my mind that Kobe could've won a title with 10 other dominant centers (there just weren't 10 of em).

I'll give a few examples of places where I can't envision Shaq winning a title. Pitino and Doc Rivers would've been jokes. I think Penny at his prime was better than either Pierce or TMac to boot (noting how Brian Hill was vanquished, you could blame him on Shaq's failure to win one w/ Penny if you don't want to concede that Hakeem or Jordan were superior to Shaq). I don't see Shaq winning a chip w/ Carter. Carter's a lightweight.

Pierce and Pitino
TMac and Rivers
Carter and Butch Carter or Lenny Wilkens
Jamison and Cowens or Brian Winters
Francis and Tomjanovich
Stackhouse and Gentry

I think he may have been able to win one with Allen and Karl in Milwaukee, with AI and Brown in Philly, with Kidd and Scott in NJ, with Miller and Bird in Indy. MAYBE he could've won one w/ Finley in Dallas, but that would be more dependent on Nash and Dirk. Note that all of those teams were good anyway. Philly, NJ, and Indy went to the Finals on their own and that MIL team was Finals caliber in 01. A prime Ewing, Hakeem, Robbo, or Duncan may have been able to win at least 1 title in any of those situations, imo.

What can't be argued is that dominant centers have more impact in this league than dominant SGs (save for the one notable exception of MJ).
 
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#23
I said in his prime, though; he hadn't hit his prime yet for his first Finals. And yeah, during that run the Lakers had from 2000-2002, I honestly believe that you could have put any top-15 SG in the league with Shat, and he still would have won 3 rings.

Sorry, but you'll never convince me that, with the way O'Neal was playing from 00-02, that he couldn't have won just as easily with Ray Allen, or Tracy McGrady, or Vince Carter. Hell, in 2001, he might have won a ring with David Wesley.
David Wesley? C'mon, Slim. A shrinking violet like VC is hard enough to argue.

A whole separate issue is Wade's superiority to a guy like VC. How many free throws did he shoot in the Finals? Now compare that to VC shooting stupid long jumpers all night (as he is/was notorious for). You replace VC w/ Kobe in 2000 and I just don't envision him taking over Gm4 at Indy in OT after Shaq fouled out. That probably would've been a loss putting Indy up 3-2. Do you think the Kings would've beaten the Lakers in 2002 in Gm7 with VC in Kobe's place? I don't. I don't even think it would've gone that far.

NOW......you wanna warp the time/space continuum even further and pair Shaq with those lesser SGs in TODAY'S LEAGUE......and your argument is stronger. Imo, ONLY the Spurs are serious threats to the Heat should they make it back to the Finals. The 1998 Jazz, 1999 Spurs, 2000 Blazers, 2000 Pacers, 2002 Spurs, 2002 Kings, 2003 Spurs, 2004 Spurs, and 2004 Pistons (all teams that Kobe and Shaq faced) were more title-ready than anything this league has to offer besides the Spurs. So if we're talking today's league, I wouldn't argue w/ you much. (PS: the Suns are a gimmick; the Mavs' softness is a fatal flaw).
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#27
If I might, Slim (and VF21, for that matter) will not accept objectivity if it pursues us and traps us in a cellar, when it comes to the Lakers.
 
#28
Give it up, Gargamel. You know Slim will never be accused of objectivity when it comes to the Lakers.
I don't like the argument because it cuts both ways and no one against Kobe will admit it.

Take 2003 Kobe and stick him on any of the following teams from 95:

1995 Magic w/ Shaq
1995 Knicks w/ Ewing
1995 Rockets w/ Hakeem
1995 Spurs w/ Robbo

All 4 of those teams would've been a virtual lock to win the title w/ a 1-2 C/G punch like that. You could take away Penny, Starks, Drexler, and Elliott and they'd still win. Kobe would've been the answer to NY's prayers especially (Starks' disappearing acts).
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#29
I don't like the argument because it cuts both ways and no one against Kobe will admit it.

Take 2003 Kobe and stick him on any of the following teams from 95...
Yeah, except that wasn't the argument. I'm not just saying that, if you took Shat in his peak year and stuck him with another top guard from that respective guard's peak year, that they would have won; I'm going so far as to say that, if you take Shat in his peak year, and stick him with any other top guard from that year, he would have still won. 2001 Shat + 2001 Paul Pierce wins the 'chip, in my opinion. Or 2001 Ray Allen. Or maybe even 2001 Kerry Kittles. I'm not qualifying my statement by stipulating that it had to be that guard's best year; I think that he would have won with any quality SG that year. What other center do you think you could you have put 2003 Kobe Bryant alongside in 2003 that you think he still could have won?

And, not to change the subject, but unless I'm mistaken, 2003 Kobe Bryant didn't actually win...