Would losing the Kings really affect quality of life?

[schaffeb]

I was just listening to 1140 and Grant Napier said something that really struck a nerve with me. He said the quality of life in Sacramento will go down if the kings leave.

I understand that there are good reasons to want to keep the Kings, but how would quality of life be affected in the least?

This is why I disagree with this outlook:

*Downtown Sacramento is exploding with development - It really is. I see it everytime I go down there. There are many new loft projects, resteraunts, and clubs. Many of them aren't my style, but the pace of developement is really rather incredible. I think that the Arena might help this, but I'm not sure Downtown Sacramento really needs any help at this point. The quality of life in Downtown Sacramento will be fine regardless of whether the Kings stay or leave.

It's not going to be San Francisco anytime soon, but would an arena really make it like SF? Would all this development stop just because the Kings leave?

*Railyards will be developed no matter what - My friend does real estate development downtown and has explained to me that the railyards are going to be developed whether or not the arena goes in to that location. Sacramento has a unique situation having acres of undeveloped land next to it's downtown. This won't be left undeveloped for eternity.

*The Kings barely affect most people's lives as it is - With current ticket prices as high as they are for reasonable seats you might as well watch them on TV. It is my perception that very few can afford to go to the games. (BTW I have absolutely no problem with the Maloof's charging whatever they want) If the Kings were to move, you could still watch them on league pass. If most people can't afford to go to the games, what's the difference between watching them on comcast or (for the price of going to one game) league pass?

So I'm asking, how would losing the Kings affect the day-to-day quality of life of our citizens? I would really like to understand this perspective. I'm sure some of you can help.

 

[BMiller52]

You wouldn't have an entertainment venue. There would be no place for pro sports, concerts, or other events. You would lose the Maloofs who make significant contributions to charities. Sacramento would lose most of it's publicity. A lot of jobs would be lost if the Kings leave because people work at the arena and stuff. I dont think downtown will develope as fast without the Kings anyway, it will develope but I think that keeping the Kings and building a new arena would be a big step and speed that up a lot.

 

[schaffeb]

You wouldn't have an entertainment venue. There would be no place for pro sports, concerts, or other events.

Ok, but there isn't one now besides Arco.

You would lose the Maloofs who make significant contributions to charities.

Fair enough.

Sacramento would lose most of it's publicity.

Not sure what this means. Do you mean that people in other states won't know about Sacramento?

A lot of jobs would be lost if the Kings leave because people work at the arena and stuff.

I've heard the professional staff would be able to move with the Kings? Is this rumor true? Not too mention this would affect the qulaity of life of tiny subset of citizens.

I dont think downtown will develope as fast without the Kings anyway, it will develope but I think that keeping the Kings and building a new arena would be a big step and speed that up a lot.

Really?

Aura and Twin Towers are in progress as we speak.

Have you been downtown lately? How much faster can it develop?

 

[BMiller52]

If Arco is destroyed in 4 years and it will be where do you think that major events will be or a pro sports team will play? Not in Sacramento...

 

[schaffeb]

If Arco is destroyed in 4 years and it will be where do you think that major events will be or a pro sports team will play? Not in Sacramento...

*Pro Sports - Not many can afford to attend these events, hence my original point that it wouldn't affect quality of life. If most are forced to watch on TV why does it matter where the team is geographically located?

*Major Events - This is may be true. I'm not sure. Is the memorial auditorium completely unnaceptable for major events? I was just in SF and I saw that Guns and Roses are playing the Warfield. The Warfield looks like a piece of crap from the outside, but I don't go to concerts so I can't honestly say I know. So I'll accept your opinion as correct.

This leads me to another point, I'm not sure huge events necessarily lead to vibrant cities. I love the nightlife in San Francisco and I've partied there a fair amount. I don't see the fact that the Giants are there affecting the party scene one bit.

I'm biased though because I love dance music and when I think of a vibrant nightlife I think of vibrant clubs, not big concerts. I don't see how a new arena will help that aspect of things.

You could however, argue that an arena will draw more people to the city which will create a more cosmopolitan, sophisticated nightlife over time. I would say that you might be correct. I just see that happening already. It's going to take a long time, but I think it will happen.

 

[Brac-o-matic]

You say that most people can't afford "reasonable seats". Have you been to the games in the $10 seats? I have, many times. If you looked at a seating chart, and picked THE worst seat in the arena...I've sat there, on several occasions. And I had a great time! If you ask me, there isn't an "unreasonable" seat in the house. Would I have had more fun if I was closer? Maybe. But I had 100 times more fun than watching it on TV. No comparison.

So, yes, the Kings moving would effect my day-to-day life. The excitement I feel attending the games, or listening to them on the radio, watching them on TV, following the standings...all that would be gone, or at least greatly diminished, if they weren't representing my home town.

 

[schaffeb]

You say that most people can't afford "reasonable seats". Have you been to the games in the $10 seats? I have, many times. If you looked at a seating chart, and picked THE worst seat in the arena...I've sat there, on several occasions. And I had a great time! If you ask me, there isn't an "unreasonable" seat in the house. Would I have had more fun if I was closer? Maybe. But I had 100 times more fun than watching it on TV. No comparison.

So, yes, the Kings moving would effect my day-to-day life. The excitement I feel attending the games, or listening to them on the radio, watching them on TV, following the standings...all that would be gone, or at least greatly diminished, if they weren't representing my home town.

This is a great point. I guess my perspective is different. I've always thought that if I can't sit closer than the tv cameras it's not worth going.

You've made an excellent point though that I had not considered.

 

[6th]

I will only address one issue and give you a very current example.

When ARCO is gone (no entertainment venue large enough to hold major events) there will be many many people affected. Some cannot afford (or care about) the Kings/Monarchs. But, there are other events that will leave Sacramento. Besides basketball and concerts there is also wrestling, truck pulls, ice shows, the circus, etc. Oh, and don't forget the many graduations ceremonies held there.

I have just signed up a group for my work (140 tickets to be exact) to attend the Disney on Ice show that will be at ARCO the 1st weekend in November. The vast majority of these tickets are for kids. Yeah! There are many who would miss having an entertainment venue in Sacramento besides sports fans.

 

[Kingzrool]

I think this is part of the point, it does not need to take that long if the Arena Deal goes through.


I wholeheartedly agree about sitting in the rafters being better than watching TV. You feel the energy when you are present at Arco. I drive all the way from Truckee in snow storms just to see them live as opposed to watching on TV.

As far as Sacs reputation, I think it does affect it as an out-of-towner. I see it as an indicator of the level of Civic Pride.

 

[NikateeN]

I was just in SF and I saw that Guns and Roses are playing the Warfield.

They are also playing at ARCO on Oct 2nd.

If people cant afford Kings tickets then why are most of the games sold out?

And i agree,there isnt a bad seat in the house,ive been to about 8 WWE events and a few times had "bad seats" but still could the expressions on the wrestlers faces.

It will effect the way people live because in sports the Kings are really all we have,there is a certain pride in cheering for your home team,yea we could just watch Golden State or somebody close to home but it wouldnt be the same,a lot of people live for the game of basketball,i know a lot of those kinds of people,and life wouldnt be the same for them if the Kings were to leave the city.

The way i see it,if the Kings were to leave it would be a major blow to me,i dont have many interests in life but the Kings are one of them,and i take my love for them seriously,im sure i would get over it eventually,i mean life moves on,but it would be a hard first couple of years.

And im curious,does anybody know the chance of some how getting another team if we lose the Kings? One of my bosses at work said it would probably happen,but would take quite a few years.

 

[schaffeb]

I think this is part of the point, it does not need to take that long if the Arena Deal goes through.

It sort of depends on how you define it. I think it would take many years to develop the kind of culture that SF has no matter what you put downtown.

I do think that the concern over major events is valid. I'm not sure what the solution is though. I have a serious philosphical problem with paying a tax so that I can have the privilege of paying more to go see events.

Additionally, in the group of twentysomething people I hang out with, I don't think anybody really cares about wrestling, ice events, etc. so it's hard for me to see other's vision of a family friendly downtown area.

My original point is that I don't see a precipitous decline in the standard of living if the Kings leave. Life will go on. Sacramento will still be a nice place to live for a variety of reasons.

One last point. With the seemingly explosive rate of growth in the Sacramento area (which will happen no matter what the Kings do) Isn't there the potential for a privately funded arena down the rode?

 

[schaffeb]

They are also playing at ARCO on Oct 2nd.

I think you misunderstand me. I was wondering if Memorial Auditorium wouldn't be suitable for events like this.

If people cant afford Kings tickets then why are most of the games sold out?

I think it's more that the average fan can't afford to go to a lot of games. I don't doubt that there is money to pay the ticket prices, just that I believe many people watch a majority of games on tv.

 

[BigWaxer]

I actually agree with schaffeb... I am for the arena but absolutely hate when people say quality of life will go down and Sacto will go back to a cowtown, housing prices will go down and all that. Its just garbage.

Sure an arena can help boost a certain small segment of development around it but other then that... Arena or no Arena the average Joe family will not be affected by the outcome of this.

 

[schaffeb]

I actually agree with schaffeb... I am for the arena but absolutely hate when people say quality of life will go down and Sacto will go back to a cowtown, housing prices will go down and all that. Its just garbage.

Sure an arena can help boost a certain small segment of development around it but other then that... Arena or no Arena the average Joe family will not be affected by the outcome of this.

This is absolutely what I was trying get across. Thanks for stating it so much more concisely

 

[NikateeN]

I think you misunderstand me. I was wondering if Memorial Auditorium wouldn't be suitable for events like this.


I think it's more that the average fan can't afford to go to a lot of games. I don't doubt that there is money to pay the ticket prices, just that I believe many people watch a majority of games on tv.

Naw,i thought you were a GnR fan,just lettin you know they are playing here too.

Well thats how it is everywhere,the average NBA fan cant afford every game,i dont care if its Sac,or New York...not to mention that Kings tickets are some of the cheapest in the NBA,you look at a team like the Lakers and they have tickets starting at 20 bucks,and thats horrible seating,ive been in em.

 

[JB_kings]

1 - They can build lofts and condos all they want. That is only part of what's needed to make it a vibrant downtown. Take me for example, I don't work down there and it wouldn't surprise many that I don't visit there. What is there to draw the average family down there? I have all the stores I need within 5 minutes of my house. I've seen and done all the museums and how many t-shirts and candy can one really buy in Old Sac? There are no compelling resturants. Of my last 6 visits downtown, all of them have been to go to River Cats games. I like to park and walk across the bridge.

2 - I think the argument that nobody is going to the Kings games is just silly. Of course we go to them. I don't go to 30-40 a year like I did 10 years ago, but I still see as many as I can. The place is full of people and I know for a fact a good number of them are middle class people.

3 - Concerts stopped going to the Memorial Auditorium like almost 40 years ago. The place only holds a few thousand people. This area has nearly 2 million people here and despite popular opinion, they like entertainment.

And yet if the myopics have their way, we won't have any indoor venue to go to see games, concerts, shows, events. I keep hearing people saying "fine, let the Kings walk". But it's not just them, it's Disney on Ice, The Wiggles, monster truck shows, Ringling Bros. Circus, Harlem Globetrotters, boys and girls high school basketball championships, NCAA March Madness games, WWE wrestling, etc.
When Arco is gone in a few years, Fresno, Reno and Stockton will have larger indoor facilities. Forget the Kings and the Maloofs for a minute and just stop and think. The very small price weve been asked to contribute is nothing compared the the first tank of gas your going to have to pay for to drive a few hours away to see the same entertainment that used to be 20 minutes away. It's mind boggling that people have to even think for more than a few seconds.

 

[BigWaxer]

JB you missed the point of this thread. I agree with most of what you said.

BTW Memorial still hosts some major concerts. But its not an alternative IMO to Arco or a new Arco.

 

[schaffeb]

Naw,i thought you were a GnR fan,just lettin you know they are playing here too.

Well thats how it is everywhere,the average NBA fan cant afford every game,i dont care if its Sac,or New York...not to mention that Kings tickets are some of the cheapest in the NBA,you look at a team like the Lakers and they have tickets starting at 20 bucks,and thats horrible seating,ive been in em.

According to this site: http://www.teammarketing.com/fci.cfm?page=fci_nba_05-06.cfm they're the 6th highest in the league. I didn't even realize they were that high.

edit: looks like the Kings actually have the 3rd highest average ticket prices in the League, but the 6th highest Fan Cost Index.

 

[schaffeb]

1 - They can build lofts and condos all they want. That is only part of what's needed to make it a vibrant downtown. Take me for example, I don't work down there and it wouldn't surprise many that I don't visit there. What is there to draw the average family down there? I have all the stores I need within 5 minutes of my house. I've seen and done all the museums and how many t-shirts and candy can one really buy in Old Sac? There are no compelling resturants. Of my last 6 visits downtown, all of them have been to go to River Cats games. I like to park and walk across the bridge.

I don't think the goal is to draw in families. If you'll notice many of the resteraunts in the area (Bistro 33, Lucca, Mikuni) aren't exactly family friendly. Clearly loft living isnt family friendly. In general I don't see urban downtown areas as trying to cater to families.

And yet if the myopics have their way, we won't have any indoor venue to go to see games, concerts, shows, events. I keep hearing people saying "fine, let the Kings walk". But it's not just them, it's Disney on Ice, The Wiggles, monster truck shows, Ringling Bros. Circus, Harlem Globetrotters, boys and girls high school basketball championships, NCAA March Madness games, WWE wrestling, etc.

I don't think the young urban professionals care about any of these things. It all goes back to how you envision the area.

The very small price weve been asked to contribute is nothing compared the the first tank of gas your going to have to pay for to drive a few hours away to see the same entertainment that used to be 20 minutes away. It's mind boggling that people have to even think for more than a few seconds.

I think it might be more appropriate to build an arena out in the suburbs so that the families who want to go to things like ice capades and WWE can go.

 

[JB_kings]

I think I understand the point. I think Sacramento will be worse off beyond what I previously mentioned if we don't get a new arena. Certainly not a disaster, but it will be enough that I'm guessing a good chunk of those opposing the measures would probably regret their vote within 1-2 years.

If this was just about the Kings, the approx 2 million going to local charities isn't going to be replaced. What about the player charity events? What about the stay in school appearances? Nothing to replace that.

Most of those who work at Arco will be out of a job. Only the core MSE employees would follow the team and that leaves a great many who lose a source of income. It may not be big money to some, but it's money that put food on someone's table.

 

[JB_kings]

I think it might be more appropriate to build an arena out in the suburbs so that the families who want to go to things like ice capades and WWE can go.

I think you better check with your city councilman, because they would seriously like people like me to come down there and spend money. It's nice that your vision of downtown is the urban single young person's dream, but it's not all there is in life.

 

[schaffeb]

I think you better check with your city councilman, because they would seriously like people like me to come down there and spend money.

That's very interesting because outside of Old Sacramento, there seems to be virtually no family friendly venues. From a completely uneducated point of view it does not seem that they are trying to develop downtown in that direction at all.

My original point was that Downtown is exploding right now without a downtown arena. The kings leaving isn't going to change that.

 

[BMiller52]

I don't think the young urban professionals care about any of these things. It all goes back to how you envision the area.

So the rest of us are supposed to cater to young urban professionals? Why should we care about them? Eventually most of them will be family people anyway, they'll need somewhere to take their family for entertainment.

 

[JB_kings]

That's very interesting because outside of Old Sacramento, there seems to be virtually no family friendly venues. From a completely uneducated point of view it does not seem that they are trying to develop downtown in that direction at all.

My original point was that Downtown is exploding right now. The kings leaving isn't going to change that.

You mean outside of this attempt to fill the railyards with an arena, railroad technology museum and many millions to build a transportation hub get people down there?

I understand you don't think an arena is important in the railyard, but the developer who IS developing it thinks it's worth 2 million dollars in campaign money.

 

[Larry89]

I would become clinically depressed if the Kings left.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I would NEVER support any other NBA team for as long as I live...I am a Kings fan...if the stupid local gov't people think that the REAL fans will just jump ship to an expansion team or whatever when the Kings leave, I for one, will forever scorn them and have no further allegiance to any team in the NBA, Sacramento or not.

 

[BigSong]

I was just listening to 1140 and Grant Napier said something ..........

thats your problem right there.

 

[Warhawk]

Just to put in my $0.02.

I am married with a 3-year old son. Last year I went to 1 Kings game. Caught 2 Monarchs games (one with our son, one without). Went to probably that many events there with my son in the past year as well (circus and Wiggles, one other I think as well). They made a LOT more $$$ off us at the kids events than the games. Ticket prices alone were higher, plus all the goodies he came back with.

Thinking that all the existing development is just for young urban yuppies is wrong. Lots of older folks, families, etc attend many events downtown and the older folks (say, over 30 ) tend to have more disposable income. Dinners are for a family of 4 instead of a young couple. More tickets sold per transaction. You get the idea.

 

[bajaden]

Man, where do I begin. Downtown is exploding. Where? I've been downtown late at night. I've been to the so called mall. Its exploding alright, with people that make my skin crawl. I eat dinner there and I'm afraid to walk back to my car. Your living in a dream world, but then most 20 year olds are. Thats the point of this whole project. To rejuiviate the downtown area. Do you know why. Because there is no one going there to support it.
I live in Rocklin. Why would I even want to go downtown. I have every resturant, store, you name it right here. No muggings. No fear of walking to my car after dinner. An arena would bring 18 to 19 thousand people down there 41 times a year. The other events would bring between 10 to 12 thousand people another 150 times a year. Now that might mean nothing to you, but I can assure you that it means a lot to all the business owners down there. Not to mention the investors that will line up to build there. More taxes for the city and the county that support the libraries and fire departments etc.

I go into a 7-11 every morning for a cup of coffee and the Bee. At the counter there is a small cup. In that cup there are pennies. Pennies that people don't care to carry around, because, I assume, they are of such little value, they aren't worth the effort. The tax we're talking about is 1/4 of one cent. 1/4 of one penny. Not a whole penny. The penny that people don't feel is worth their time. But 1/4 of that penny. By no means am I trying to diminish the total worth of the entire project. I'm just trying to put in prospective the effect on the average person. Put your principles aside. Bottom line, is how anything you buy or invest in, affects your personal budget. If you buy a new car, how much comes out of you paycheck. Too much, and you don't buy it.

So forget all the BS about the quality of life or its a tax on the poor. How does it affect you emotionally and economicaly. Do you love having the Kings here. Do you want a vibrant downtown. Do you want place where you can go and see events that otherwise won't be available here.And can you afford the tax. If so, vote yes, if not vote no. Its that simple.

 

[ShatteredVision]

Part of the a new arena is the brand new hotel space that would pop up downtown since there are added attractions.

A Downtown Arena becomes part of Sacramento's showcase for visitors and citizens alike.

Why Sacramento could even host bigger events such as the Republican or Democratic National Convention a couple of years down the line being a political town.