Ever since E.M. was hired, I've been hearing people talk about how brad could be traded, mike could see less minutes becasue of his defense,(and to keep him healthy for the playoffs), and that neither reef or kt is a real starter. The truth is that Brad Miller is one if the top 3 centers in the league, and everytime he goes against the second best he has a practicaly a triple double ( yao and bottlerockets). Take Ben Wallace for example, Brad's Offense is just as good as Ben's defense and Brad's defense is a whole lot better than Ben's offense. When Brad first came to Sacto he averaged over 15 points, 10 boards, 3 dimes, and over a 1 steal and over a 1 block, along with shooting over 80% from the line, tops among centers. In other words after Brad goes through t-camp with e.m. and ron ron, he could very well revert to his defensive ways. Ron is gonna bring back the old brad, the brad that was about to go toe to toe with the diesel when he was back in chicago. Brad knows hes not going to average over 10 boards with bonzi and kenny in there, and even k when k.mart starts he got more boards than cat mobley did, and even more that doug christie did, also he probably wont get so many dimes now that ron will handle the ball when mike's not. That being said Brad will have less of the offensive load to handle along with less rebounding therefore he'll be able to concentracte more on defense. (Also brad averaged over a block and a steal after Ron came to the kings)
Why Brad Miller is a top 3 center in the league
- Thread starter moradi420
- Start date
Brad wasn't this slow before. He was never fast, but he has become a turtle, and the leg break made it worse. He is NOT a top 3 center. The reason he gets some offense off on guys like yao or ben, is because he was rotating out. Most of those points did not come from inside, they came from jump shots. I'd rather see a center play down low, and stay down low for the most part except for certain rotations.
Oh and not to mention he has sucked in both playoffs that he has been the starting center in.
Oh and not to mention he has sucked in both playoffs that he has been the starting center in.
when brad's at his best, its tough not to call him at least a top 5 [natural] center...though that is due mostly to the fact that the league is so short on good bigs. how many are there? yao, shaq, big ben, big z, dwight howard, marcus camby, amare stoudemire, tim duncam. kevin garnett, and how many others? i can't think of many, and a few of those above are PF's masquerading as centers. kaman's getting better. he's a great rebounder, but top 5? jamaal magloire is solid, but can hardly be considered great. of all the natural centers in the league that i'd rather have instead of brad miller, i can't think of any who are attainable. magloire is available, and i'd glady start him at the C over brad, but milwaukee isn't gonna trade magloire for a guy like brad when they're trying to rid themselves of a starting C to make room for bogut. that said, it would probably be worth it to trade up in the draft in order to gain a center, but you'd need a top 2, maybe top 3 pick in order to get what you need, and nobody's gonna trade their top 3 pick for brad miller.
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I think Miller has gotten a bad rap at times. He's probably the 3rd best offensive center in the league behing Shaq and Yao. The Kings play much better with him on the court then they do with him off it (Check out 82games.com). He's better than Magloire, Diop, Dampier, Kurt Thomas
The problem I have is that its been diminishing returns since his first year with the team, and there's no reverse in sight. He clearly is happy with his paycheck and is not doing anything to combat the effects of age and injuries. Not training in the offseason is bad enough, but he doesn't bring the same effort on the court as the guy who went undrafted and turned himself into an All-Star. All that and the league is shifting to a style of play that doesn't suit his talents and really highlights his weaknesses (athleticism and defense). Who can he guard in the playoffs next year? Duncan, Stoudemire, Nowitzki, Brand....we're toast if they're matched up. Even guys like Dampier and Kaman would probly give him too much trouble. Either way his offensive stats in the playoffs have been terrible so he's not even offsetting his poor defense.
Basically if we can trade him for a young, athletic, defensive-oriented big I'm all for it. The Miller for Chandler deal is something I would support all the way.
The problem I have is that its been diminishing returns since his first year with the team, and there's no reverse in sight. He clearly is happy with his paycheck and is not doing anything to combat the effects of age and injuries. Not training in the offseason is bad enough, but he doesn't bring the same effort on the court as the guy who went undrafted and turned himself into an All-Star. All that and the league is shifting to a style of play that doesn't suit his talents and really highlights his weaknesses (athleticism and defense). Who can he guard in the playoffs next year? Duncan, Stoudemire, Nowitzki, Brand....we're toast if they're matched up. Even guys like Dampier and Kaman would probly give him too much trouble. Either way his offensive stats in the playoffs have been terrible so he's not even offsetting his poor defense.
Basically if we can trade him for a young, athletic, defensive-oriented big I'm all for it. The Miller for Chandler deal is something I would support all the way.
Bingo. Things that Centers are supposed to do. Don't get me wrong but some of these posts about how Brad's offense outweighs his diminishing defense make me wonder if people would make the same argument if we just played with an extra off guard of small forward. Its not just about the offense its about the type of offense and how it effects everyone else on the court. True he does draw defenders outside but that doesn't do much good on a team with no outstanding rebounders to take advantage of the situation.
I like Brad, he's a very solid player but its very hard to rank him at the top of his position when he isn't doing the things you expect from a player at the position.
I like Brad, he's a very solid player but its very hard to rank him at the top of his position when he isn't doing the things you expect from a player at the position.
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i think the fact that we have no back up is the main source of the problem... miller is better than big z...
but against a team like the mavs... they can throw dampier, diop and van horn(i guess) before they even get to dirk....
the suns have amare, k thomas and diaw...
spurs have nazr, rasho and duncan....
we just have miller.... and maybe reef which is pathetic....
even the lakers have more bigs than us.... with mihm, brown and bynum...
but against a team like the mavs... they can throw dampier, diop and van horn(i guess) before they even get to dirk....
the suns have amare, k thomas and diaw...
spurs have nazr, rasho and duncan....
we just have miller.... and maybe reef which is pathetic....
even the lakers have more bigs than us.... with mihm, brown and bynum...
I think if we get a better back up and Brad listens to Musselman he'll play like the old Brad again instead of "Old Brad". Brad will HAVE TO work out this offseason because he'll be working out for team USA. I think he can play like the Brad of old again. If he does he's a top 5 center, up there with Camby, and below Yao, Shaq, and Big Ben.
You can't run the pick and roll with Bibby and K Mart/Bonzi/Cisco. It's not a perfect stat, but Brad had the best plus/minus of anyone on the team. So whenever they went small, or put Skinner out there or Thomas and Reef together they lost ground on the scoreboard.
Does it really matter how they're putting the points up, if they're both scoring 15 ppg on 50% shooting? I like the idea of moving Brad for Chandler, but not for Ilgauskas who is even more slow-footed. Other than Yao there is no one in the entire Western Conference who he could guard even a little bit.
Does it really matter how they're putting the points up, if they're both scoring 15 ppg on 50% shooting? I like the idea of moving Brad for Chandler, but not for Ilgauskas who is even more slow-footed. Other than Yao there is no one in the entire Western Conference who he could guard even a little bit.
Bricklayer said:
Kurt Thomas? 
Nah.
Not really Zo anymore either because he can't play big minutes.
Big Z has to be up on that list somewhere too.
In any case, after you get past the first 3-4 its all kind of mushy "centers of quality" kind of stuff.
Nah.Not really Zo anymore either because he can't play big minutes.
Big Z has to be up on that list somewhere too.
In any case, after you get past the first 3-4 its all kind of mushy "centers of quality" kind of stuff.
Zo I put on there because of his blocks. But yeah, you can take him off.
As much as I agree with the negative points about Brad, moradi brought up a good point. Brad is a very good center. You must remember that Adelman had Brad playing over 40 minutes per game. That is too much for a 7-foot man.
What he can do: Drain clutch shots. Shoot free throws. Shoot from the perimeter. Pass with efficiency.
What Brad lacks is the speed and coordination of a "less white" center.
If we can find a decent backup for him to cut down his minutes, and provide some help-defense for him, then he won't be a problem anymore.
What he can do: Drain clutch shots. Shoot free throws. Shoot from the perimeter. Pass with efficiency.
What Brad lacks is the speed and coordination of a "less white" center.
If we can find a decent backup for him to cut down his minutes, and provide some help-defense for him, then he won't be a problem anymore.
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how comgested would the post be if miller did play there with artest, bonzi, reef and miller?
if he rebounds the ball and hits his shots he'll be fine, thats was our problem against the spurs. miller had open shots that werent falling, when they are he can set up other players. but he really needs a back up, maybe we should go after kandiman... he shouldnt be that expensive, lol... if we could get rid of thomas id love to get darius back as well...
maybe we should trade reef to the sonics for watson then sign darius and kandi(s&t w/vtaly)
if he rebounds the ball and hits his shots he'll be fine, thats was our problem against the spurs. miller had open shots that werent falling, when they are he can set up other players. but he really needs a back up, maybe we should go after kandiman... he shouldnt be that expensive, lol... if we could get rid of thomas id love to get darius back as well...
maybe we should trade reef to the sonics for watson then sign darius and kandi(s&t w/vtaly)
Brad IS in the top 10 for centers but now not by much. His high post work is a better match for the international game than low post. Plus his passing and mid -range jumpers and his new found 3's.
But....... Brad is slow getting up and down and he is not quick at all to stop the layup drills many teams seem to practice on the Kings. (Yao is not particularly fast or quick either). I like Brad but watching every game and paying attention to what he does and does not do is painful.
The Kings don't have a second option in the middle. It sure is not KT, tho' he gets rebounds he does not stop much in the middle. It is not SAR tho' he does a better overall job in the middle than KT or Brad. I said "in the middle". But not much of a shot blocker.
Potapenko is an unknown. I looked at him primarily as a "bruiser" to clog up the middle. But with no training camp and little practice time coming on a late as he did, it was hard to expect much. If he can move laterally and block a shot or two a game, get a few rebounds, not foul out every time and put up 6-8 points, then he can be a big help off the bench.
If a big and quick 5 shows up, or maybe a big-quick 4 and we go with 2 bigs and a bunch of banging rabbits (Ron, Bonzi, Kevin and Cisco). Musselman has said he wants to run, run, run. That is not our B52. Once and awhile maybe, but not in a running game.
All this puts him on a bubble that could reduce his minutes if (and thats a big IF) a big quick/fast 4-5 shows up who can block and rebound.
But....... Brad is slow getting up and down and he is not quick at all to stop the layup drills many teams seem to practice on the Kings. (Yao is not particularly fast or quick either). I like Brad but watching every game and paying attention to what he does and does not do is painful.
The Kings don't have a second option in the middle. It sure is not KT, tho' he gets rebounds he does not stop much in the middle. It is not SAR tho' he does a better overall job in the middle than KT or Brad. I said "in the middle". But not much of a shot blocker.
Potapenko is an unknown. I looked at him primarily as a "bruiser" to clog up the middle. But with no training camp and little practice time coming on a late as he did, it was hard to expect much. If he can move laterally and block a shot or two a game, get a few rebounds, not foul out every time and put up 6-8 points, then he can be a big help off the bench.
If a big and quick 5 shows up, or maybe a big-quick 4 and we go with 2 bigs and a bunch of banging rabbits (Ron, Bonzi, Kevin and Cisco). Musselman has said he wants to run, run, run. That is not our B52. Once and awhile maybe, but not in a running game.
All this puts him on a bubble that could reduce his minutes if (and thats a big IF) a big quick/fast 4-5 shows up who can block and rebound.
Quick Note: in a 10yr career spanning 11,595 NBA minutes, Potapenko has blocked a grand total of 209 shots.
At age 36, playing on one kidney, and averaging only 20 min/gm Alonzo Mourning managed to block 173 this year alone.
Whatever else Potapenko can do -- which is pretty much just bang bodies a little, he is one of the very worst big man shotblockers in the game. Quite possibly worse than Brad. Stumpy ground bound white guys R' Us.
At age 36, playing on one kidney, and averaging only 20 min/gm Alonzo Mourning managed to block 173 this year alone.
Whatever else Potapenko can do -- which is pretty much just bang bodies a little, he is one of the very worst big man shotblockers in the game. Quite possibly worse than Brad. Stumpy ground bound white guys R' Us.
At this point in his career Pot pretty much sucks. He was never that great to begin with as he got beat out by Tony Battie when he was in what should have been his prime. I'll be shocked if he's still on the roster by February, he'll be a deadline move to a team looking for cap flexibility next season if he isn't traded in the offseason.
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Fact is that Brad Miller is not even in the top 5 or 10 list. His skills are decreasing in every aspect of the game. Heck even his passing and shooting aren't that visible anymore. Did I mention how easy it is for teams to guard this guy. Teams put small guys on him because they know brad can't rebound, block a shot plus the other team has an advantage because Brad is slow. Next topic please...
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Er...actually Brad took his shooting to a new high last year, even adding a reliable three to the arsenal. What he lost was on the muscle side of things where he could scarcely afford the slide -- defense + boardwork. The skills were all there. Just a question of how much he will get to use his strengths in a new system.