De'Aaron Fox Traded to Spurs for Zach Lavine, three first round picks
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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I don’t think I ever held LaVine’s injury history against him. I feel like I tend to be less worried about injuries than the majority of posters here (hence why I would suggest trades for guys like Isaac, Anunoby, etc.).
I’d rather build a team that has a high ceiling (when healthy) and address the health/injury risks by making sure you have depth to keep the team afloat during the regular season. To me, that’s better than having a team that has no chance at making a deep playoff run despite the entire roster being healthy for the entire 82 game season.
Also, an unexpected “benefit” of having some injury prone players on your team is that it actually gives opportunities for other players to step up and increase their trade value or prove they should be part of the rotation on a regular basis. There’s no clearer example of this then last year when both Monk and Huerter went down with injury and it gave Ellis an opportunity to show what he could do (thus giving us more flexibility when thinking about future moves). MEM got hit with a lot of injuries last year as well and they found some solid rotation pieces and gave other players more minutes to develop their games.
Obviously, I’d prefer my best players to play every game, but like I mentioned, I don’t value the durability as much as others since I recognize that it can actually increase the trade value of some of our other guys, help players develop their games, etc.
I’d rather build a team that has a high ceiling (when healthy) and address the health/injury risks by making sure you have depth to keep the team afloat during the regular season. To me, that’s better than having a team that has no chance at making a deep playoff run despite the entire roster being healthy for the entire 82 game season.
Also, an unexpected “benefit” of having some injury prone players on your team is that it actually gives opportunities for other players to step up and increase their trade value or prove they should be part of the rotation on a regular basis. There’s no clearer example of this then last year when both Monk and Huerter went down with injury and it gave Ellis an opportunity to show what he could do (thus giving us more flexibility when thinking about future moves). MEM got hit with a lot of injuries last year as well and they found some solid rotation pieces and gave other players more minutes to develop their games.
Obviously, I’d prefer my best players to play every game, but like I mentioned, I don’t value the durability as much as others since I recognize that it can actually increase the trade value of some of our other guys, help players develop their games, etc.
I think it's pretty clear the Kings lost all their leverage in negotiations. Spurs held firm on "You're going to take what we're offering, or we'll just wait till he's a FA" and Fox's camp seems to have been planning this move since the beginning of the season.
One other point I haven't seen talked about is Fox at some point is going to have to get surgery for his hand right? So that hurts your negotiation even more with other teams who may have been interested in taking the risk to grab him for a 1yr and a half. I have no idea how long recovery takes for whatever surgery he needs to get, but I certainly would be queasy being a Non-SAS trading for a guy coming off surgery who may or may not be ready for opening day next year. Especially when he's made every indication he's only signing in SA
The whole situation was just really ****ed from top to bottom. Is it an ideal trade in the perfect world of min-maxing value? Absolutely not. But I think we'll still have a fun product to watch on the floor, LaVine is without a doubt an incredible offensive fit with Domas, Monk gets to run the show. Fox backed us into a corner and while we took a few pretty big hits, at least we were able to climb out.
I also don't think any of the Spurs assets, outside of the picks and Castle, even come close to LaVine in terms of talent and production. And it seems pretty clear their offer was probably something like Keldon, Collins and the probably the same draft capital they traded.
One other point I haven't seen talked about is Fox at some point is going to have to get surgery for his hand right? So that hurts your negotiation even more with other teams who may have been interested in taking the risk to grab him for a 1yr and a half. I have no idea how long recovery takes for whatever surgery he needs to get, but I certainly would be queasy being a Non-SAS trading for a guy coming off surgery who may or may not be ready for opening day next year. Especially when he's made every indication he's only signing in SA
The whole situation was just really ****ed from top to bottom. Is it an ideal trade in the perfect world of min-maxing value? Absolutely not. But I think we'll still have a fun product to watch on the floor, LaVine is without a doubt an incredible offensive fit with Domas, Monk gets to run the show. Fox backed us into a corner and while we took a few pretty big hits, at least we were able to climb out.
I also don't think any of the Spurs assets, outside of the picks and Castle, even come close to LaVine in terms of talent and production. And it seems pretty clear their offer was probably something like Keldon, Collins and the probably the same draft capital they traded.
This is going to prove to be a lateral move in time. I think Sac is going to be holding onto Derozan as they want to win now. He’s on an extremely short time line. Domas is in win now mode. If we got the SA middling talent like Kelton, Sochan, Vassel, this season would be washed, Derozan would want out and then I’m wondering where Domas mind would be. Lavine makes us better offensively. Defensively, still got questions but Fox and Monk together was not good either. If Monte can swing a trade to get some reinforcements, then I think the fan base will eventually be happy.
The problem is that we saw how bad our defense was starting Fox, Monk, DeRozan, Murray, and Sabonis. Now that defense is getting worse by swapping Fox for LaVine.
DeRozan is the obvious guy to swap out for many reasons…
If you can somehow leverage the 1sts and 2nds you just acquired to bring in Cam Johnson, PJ Washington, and Day’Ron Sharpe, you have a pretty interesting team. A starting lineup of…
Monk
LaVine
Johnson
Murray
Sabonis
…is a TON of shooting and nobody is going to be able to go under on Sabonis’ screens with those guys (otherwise, they’ll just pull from 3). That’s going to give Sabonis a lot more space in the lane when he rolls to the basket.
Then off the bench you have…
Fox
DeRozan
Huerter
McLaughlin
for
Lavine
Johnson
Washington
Sharpe
…I think you’d see the fanbase come around more if that’s how this trade deadline ends up working out because at the very least the team would finally have a balanced roster.
DeRozan is the obvious guy to swap out for many reasons…
- He’s considerably older than the rest of our core. Would make sense to try and extend our window more by swapping him for someone younger.
- Moving him and getting a PF allows us to improve our size/length (pushing Murray back to SF) or we just swap DeRozan for a bigger/longer SF
- He’s not a good 3PT shooter, and if we replace him with a good shooter, we all of a sudden replaced two poor 3PT shooters (Fox & DeRozan) for two good 3PT shooters (LaVine & ???). That would be a significant change to the offense and spacing and maybe that ends up unlocking Sabonis that much more when the other 4 guys on the floor with him can hit 3s at a very good rate
- He’s a weak defender at a position where we don’t have good defensive depth. Murray is the only good forward defender on the roster. I’d much rather swap DeRozan out for another good forward defender (giving us 2 good for wed defenders) vs. trading Monk for amother good guard defender (when we already have Ellis and Carter on the roster)
If you can somehow leverage the 1sts and 2nds you just acquired to bring in Cam Johnson, PJ Washington, and Day’Ron Sharpe, you have a pretty interesting team. A starting lineup of…
Monk
LaVine
Johnson
Murray
Sabonis
…is a TON of shooting and nobody is going to be able to go under on Sabonis’ screens with those guys (otherwise, they’ll just pull from 3). That’s going to give Sabonis a lot more space in the lane when he rolls to the basket.
Then off the bench you have…
- Your two defensive aces at guard in Ellis and Carter
- A big, long, athletic forward in Washington (7’2.5” wingspan, 8’11” standing reach, & 230 lbs) who can do a little of everything (shoot, score, defend, rebound, block shots, pass)
- A PF/C who can stretch the floor and bring some toughness in Lyles
- An upgrade at C in Sharpe who can help keep the team afloat while Sabonis rests
Fox
DeRozan
Huerter
McLaughlin
for
Lavine
Johnson
Washington
Sharpe
…I think you’d see the fanbase come around more if that’s how this trade deadline ends up working out because at the very least the team would finally have a balanced roster.
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Spurs being overly greedy are gonna have too many mouths to feed.
Go ahead pay Fox all that dough. Give Area 51 max. How many of those "youmg players they going to afford?
Fox could be gone in 2 years. As a klitch crony I could see him jumping ship again, then that pick is worth a lot more than ppl think.
I'd rather have their pick outright than a swap.
Go ahead pay Fox all that dough. Give Area 51 max. How many of those "youmg players they going to afford?
Fox could be gone in 2 years. As a klitch crony I could see him jumping ship again, then that pick is worth a lot more than ppl think.
I'd rather have their pick outright than a swap.
Of course he's a solid dude and solid teammate ... I and others are talking about basketball fit. Personally, his game is not conducive to winning in 2025. Said this from Day 1. The ideal offensive for Kings will be Monk/Lavine pick and rolls w/ Sabonis or Sabonis dribble hand offs to shooters (Monk, Lavine, Murray, Ellis). ANY other offensive set is inferior to that including DeRozan isos 20 feet away from basket. And when DeRozan is not in play he clutters things up because his man sags off him.
DeRozan is going to limit this team. Even if you stagger his minutes and let him iso when Sabonis isn't in - that's ineffective too, as we've seen all year. Bench has been mediocre partly because the offensive strategy when they're in is to overly rely on DeRozan iso game ...
Replacing him with a player with some off the ball gravity like Cam Johnson or John Collins, who also can move better defensively, would be wise.
DeRozan is going to limit this team. Even if you stagger his minutes and let him iso when Sabonis isn't in - that's ineffective too, as we've seen all year. Bench has been mediocre partly because the offensive strategy when they're in is to overly rely on DeRozan iso game ...
Replacing him with a player with some off the ball gravity like Cam Johnson or John Collins, who also can move better defensively, would be wise.
He fits perfectly in the modern NBA game precisely because he has a mid range game which put three points of pressure on defensese: 3pt, mid range, at the basket.
I'm not sure we are watching the same player. His mas is up on him like white on rice when is in mid range, and he still gets his shot off.
Levine has some real positives as a replacement for Fox becuse he's a lights out three point shooter this year. Monk is our man who can get to the basket now.
We have a nicely balanced three level offensive attack.
In a way, this move actually BALANCES our roster better because it gives us better three point shooting, and leaves room for Monk to get to the basket. (and Lavine)
I'm not sure we are watching the same player. His mas is up on him like white on rice when is in mid range, and he still gets his shot off.
Levine has some real positives as a replacement for Fox becuse he's a lights out three point shooter this year. Monk is our man who can get to the basket now.
We have a nicely balanced three level offensive attack.
In a way, this move actually BALANCES our roster better because it gives us better three point shooting, and leaves room for Monk to get to the basket. (and Lavine)
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I will give no Thank You to a player who stabbed the whole organization in the back.
His play from the beginning of the year was all about getting him his max deal. Trying to carry a team that didn't need to be carried in order to get his stats is pretty obvious now. The 20 shots on two messed up hands did it for me.
Call me bitter but the way he left rubs me the wrong way. I'll chear Huerter's return before I cheer him. He's not the same Fox he was 2 years ago, something changed and I'm pretty sure it's green.
I think Kings are going to be pleasantly surprised with Lavine not just on offense but also on defense. Naturally he's not known for defense but there will be much less gambles and break downs. Less steals yes but overall we won't hurt.
I Hope he plays tonight. But not holding my breath. After all star prob more like it. Cheers to the future
His play from the beginning of the year was all about getting him his max deal. Trying to carry a team that didn't need to be carried in order to get his stats is pretty obvious now. The 20 shots on two messed up hands did it for me.
Call me bitter but the way he left rubs me the wrong way. I'll chear Huerter's return before I cheer him. He's not the same Fox he was 2 years ago, something changed and I'm pretty sure it's green.
I think Kings are going to be pleasantly surprised with Lavine not just on offense but also on defense. Naturally he's not known for defense but there will be much less gambles and break downs. Less steals yes but overall we won't hurt.
I Hope he plays tonight. But not holding my breath. After all star prob more like it. Cheers to the future
Getting the 2031 Minny pick mitigates the need to get the pick swap back.
Kings are now guaranteed 2 FRPs in 2031 and that’s far more valuable than having only 1 but simply removing San Antonio’s ability to swap draft positions.
As someone mentioned, LaVine is essentially what we would hope Castle could become, and for a “make the playoffs now” team, that has more value.
I personally was rallying for Sochan and picks, but as Cap mentioned, Kings were not in the position of power here. Getting a former All-Star and as many picks as they did could be considered a godsend.
Kings are now guaranteed 2 FRPs in 2031 and that’s far more valuable than having only 1 but simply removing San Antonio’s ability to swap draft positions.
As someone mentioned, LaVine is essentially what we would hope Castle could become, and for a “make the playoffs now” team, that has more value.
I personally was rallying for Sochan and picks, but as Cap mentioned, Kings were not in the position of power here. Getting a former All-Star and as many picks as they did could be considered a godsend.
If you can get PJ Washington (who I've wanted next to Sabonis for several seasons) then you start him and move Murray to PF. I didn't think he was a realistic target before, but with AD slotted to eat up most of the PF minutes he could be more available than before.
I'd also still love to see the Kings go after Robert Williams with their trade exception. He's an ideal lob threat for Monk and he can run all the same actions as Sabonis since he's such a good passer. And of course he's a great defender/rim protector. It's a gamble on keeping him healthy, but I'd take it. His contract is team friendly and runs through next season.
Monk/Ellis
Lavine/Carter
Murray/Johnson
Washington/Lyles
Sabonis/Williams
Is a damn good team. It would mean moving DeRozan (ideally in a three team trade so he can go to a playoff team vs the Nets) and would eat up draft capital, but if Vivek and Monte want to win now, those are the types of moves that are still needed.
I'd also still love to see the Kings go after Robert Williams with their trade exception. He's an ideal lob threat for Monk and he can run all the same actions as Sabonis since he's such a good passer. And of course he's a great defender/rim protector. It's a gamble on keeping him healthy, but I'd take it. His contract is team friendly and runs through next season.
Monk/Ellis
Lavine/Carter
Murray/Johnson
Washington/Lyles
Sabonis/Williams
Is a damn good team. It would mean moving DeRozan (ideally in a three team trade so he can go to a playoff team vs the Nets) and would eat up draft capital, but if Vivek and Monte want to win now, those are the types of moves that are still needed.
I agree.
The best part of this trade was getting rid of the poison on our team. I was a big Fox guy, but I hope he misses every shot he takes going forward and never wins another game.
I'd have almost preferred the front office stood their ground on this and said to the Spurs:
"1 of 3 things are going to happen here:
1. You are going to have to give up significant assets to get him right now.
2. We trade him to a team in the east for a deal similar to what you're offering.
3. We wait and you explain to Wemby why he has to wait 1.5 years to get Fox."
I hate that the only people who won in this trade are the Spurs, Fox, and Klutch. It makes me rethink how I viewed numerous things this past season. I hate that I'm questioning the Fox foul against DET. Did he show his finger in a presser recently to scare off other teams wanting to risk on a short-term rental to further cement him going to the Spurs? Probably overthinking it but I feel pretty disgusted with how this all went down and everything we've learned the past 24 hours.
The best part of this trade was getting rid of the poison on our team. I was a big Fox guy, but I hope he misses every shot he takes going forward and never wins another game.
I'd have almost preferred the front office stood their ground on this and said to the Spurs:
"1 of 3 things are going to happen here:
1. You are going to have to give up significant assets to get him right now.
2. We trade him to a team in the east for a deal similar to what you're offering.
3. We wait and you explain to Wemby why he has to wait 1.5 years to get Fox."
I hate that the only people who won in this trade are the Spurs, Fox, and Klutch. It makes me rethink how I viewed numerous things this past season. I hate that I'm questioning the Fox foul against DET. Did he show his finger in a presser recently to scare off other teams wanting to risk on a short-term rental to further cement him going to the Spurs? Probably overthinking it but I feel pretty disgusted with how this all went down and everything we've learned the past 24 hours.
Yes, comes down to what does Derozan want but really it’s about Domas at this point. It’s really all that matters. The trade exceptions are going to be important. What if we kept DDR and got some of these pieces using the trade exceptions AND the first round picks we got or 2 nd round picks. I get the defense issue but we have been dealing with that with a Fox and Monk backcourt. Monte is on the clock
I don't understand the general sentiment of those greedy no good spurs that stole our lunch money. Maybe I just didn't spend enough time on Spurs forums to get annoyed with their fanbase over this, but what exactly did they do here that was inappropriate? They knew they wanted a high caliber PG to pair with Wemby, but had no need to rush things. Last year they identified Garland as a match, but I'm assuming held strong that they weren't going to deplete their assets. Didn't work out so they moved on to their next target. They were a little bit lucky how all of this played out, but they likely took a similar chance that their unwillingness to go all in on sending out a lot of their assets would tank a deal. Sort of sounds like what Monte has been trying to do the past couple years.... only they actually got the big move to finally happen with their patient approach. In their situation, they played this great and it paid off for them. Doesn't seem like anything worth my vitriol.
The 45 games we've played this season have contested the theory that a mid range player is going to make the offense better. Our TS% is basically the same as it was last year at 58% (down from 60% in the beam team year, small changes matter a lot in efficiency at the team level)
Style points for scoring while being tightly guarded, but we aren't any better than having Barnes shoot 10 open shots a game from the corner
Style points for scoring while being tightly guarded, but we aren't any better than having Barnes shoot 10 open shots a game from the corner
Yeah, he's sort of just hovered around being a good 8th-9th man rotation piece. Which is fine, I guess, but he hasn't been a needle-mover in a long time for us. And unfortunately, incredibly inconsistent.
I could see him+2nds being the trade for Jonas and then we use the TPE for something else. Even just that though, I don't think I would mind and then you leave the door open for IJ/IC/Cissoko to come in and take a rotation spot
I could see him+2nds being the trade for Jonas and then we use the TPE for something else. Even just that though, I don't think I would mind and then you leave the door open for IJ/IC/Cissoko to come in and take a rotation spot