Amick: De’Aaron Fox requests trade

pdxKingsFan

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Maybe it is; maybe it isn't. It's tough to know what the Spurs front office is thinking. The Mavericks tried to "speed up" their timeline to accommodate how ready Luka Doncic was from day one, and they didn't really do themselves many favors from an asset management standpoint. They had to hop on Kyrie Irving's roller coaster in order to position themselves for immediate success. I'll concede that the Irving gamble has worked out quite well for them, but it's easy to forget how much of a risk that was at the time. If Irving remained an unreliable presence on the court, the Mavericks might have just blown their long-term future with Doncic.

The Spurs, on the other hand, are a much more conservative organization than the Mark Cuban-led Mavericks. I would imagine they don't mind falling in the standings enough to miss the play-in so they can take another shot in the first round at grabbing a real contributor to add to their young team. And if they don't like what they see in the draft, they can always examine the trade market in the off-season, when they'll have greater flexibility. Fox himself might still be there on the block at that time. There really is no rush for them, as much as the Twitterati like to pretend that they must win now, in Wemby's second year, or risk losing him forever. Eh. He's cost-controlled. He'll extend with them. They have time. They can't screw around, of course, but I'll be curious to see if they simply elect to be patient and methodical, as they usually are.
A significant difference with the Mavericks is they were already shorthanded assets because they had to trade up to draft/acquire Luka and then the first big move they made was a gamble on a guy who spent most of his time in Dallas on the IR.

Fox doesn't really pose this risk and the Spurs will still have tons of picks after what Kings fans would accept as a fair trade.
 
Why people so high on Castle? I just watched some of his highlights...he's just an average player to me. And the stats proves it. Nothing stand out...FT % is average, 3pt % is below average...i mean he can pass, see the floor well and explosive dunking...seems compose with handling the ball, see the floor well, anything I do not know? He looks and play like an average player to me. His skinny frame not going to help much...

If Kings want to get rid of Fox, getting Castle is a like a bag of potato chips to me....what a waste. Can they trade a star for a star? Trae Young for Fox? Or VanFleet?
 
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pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
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he loves him though, not just because of the draft class. My guess is he would go 5th or 6th in this years class
6 months in is far too early for a redraft but I think everyone thought the first two picks were huge swings and a big reason nobody liked this class. And Reed who may also have star potential has been a complete disappointment in both counting stats and the advanced stats armchair analytics like.

I don't know where he'll be in 3-5 years when you can legitimately do a redraft but I would not be surprised if it is 4-5.
 

pdxKingsFan

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Why people so high on Castle? I just watched some of his highlights...he's just average player to me. And the stats proves it. Nothing stand out...FT % is average, 3pt % is below average...i mean he can pass, see the floor well and explosive dunking...seems compose with handling the ball, anything I do not know? He looks and play like an average player to me. His skinny frame not going to help much...

If Kings want to get rid of Fox, getting Castle is a like a bag of potato chips to me....what a waste.
He's all Spurs have to offer beyond picks. That's why.
 
A significant difference with the Mavericks is they were already shorthanded assets because they had to trade up to draft/acquire Luka and then the first big move they made was a gamble on a guy who spent most of his time in Dallas on the IR.

Fox doesn't really pose this risk and the Spurs will still have tons of picks after what Kings fans would accept as a fair trade.
Sure, that's definitely true. The question is if the Spurs want to part with any of their assets to take a swing on a guy like Fox. Is he the guy? Is he the guy now? I love De'Aaron Fox. I think he could be a legitimate 1A in the NBA if he could find that "extra gear" with greater consistency. But he's not an absolutely natural fit with a big like Domas, and I'm not sure pairing him with Wemby is a slam dunk, either. No matter what assets are remaining in their cupboard after a big trade, the Spurs are likely going to take the week ahead to evaluate if Fox is the guy on which to stake their immediate future. If they were more assuredly a lock to get past the play-in, maybe taking that swing is worth it. But it's hard to integrate high usage lead ball handlers at mid-season.
 
Sure, that's definitely true. The question is if the Spurs want to part with any of their assets to take a swing on a guy like Fox. Is he the guy? Is he the guy now? I love De'Aaron Fox. I think he could be a legitimate 1A in the NBA if he could find that "extra gear" with greater consistency. But he's not an absolutely natural fit with a big like Domas, and I'm not sure pairing him with Wemby is a slam dunk, either. No matter what assets are remaining in their cupboard after a big trade, the Spurs are likely going to take the week ahead to evaluate if Fox is the guy on which to stake their immediate future. If they were more assuredly a lock to get past the play-in, maybe taking that swing is worth it. But it's hard to integrate high usage lead ball handlers at mid-season.
Side Note: I REALLY enjoy reading your commentary/analysis. :):):)
 
Why people so high on Castle? I just watched some of his highlights...he's just average player to me. And the stats proves it. Nothing stand out...FT % is average, 3pt % is below average...i mean he can pass, see the floor well and explosive dunking...seems compose with handling the ball, see the floor well, anything I do not know? He looks and play like an average player to me. His skinny frame not going to help much...

If Kings want to get rid of Fox, getting Castle is a like a bag of potato chips to me....what a waste. Can they trade a star for a star? Trae Young for Fox? Or VanFleet?
I don't think there are many at KF.com who are "high on Castle", necessarily. He's the cost of doing business. If the Kings are going to be dealing with the Spurs on a Fox trade, the Spurs would need to be giving up their coveted young guard in addition to a raft of first rounders (and hopefully a defensive stud on the wing like Sochan). Castle himself is just a "Who knows? Maybe?!" kind of acquisition. If he blows up, then great! You've got a talented guard for the future. And if not, well, sometimes you roll the dice on young talent just to see what happens. He wouldn't be the centerpiece of the deal for the Kings. The draft picks are the prize, and if you could pry a guy like Sochan from the Spurs, as well, then he would be your immediate contributor on the wing, particularly on defense.
 
This drama has been going on nonstop for nearly four full days now. I am ready to move on from Mr. Fox and watch this team blast into contention without him--but with one or two key additions. As far as I can tell, the Kings still have one open roster spot.
 

pdxKingsFan

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Sure, that's definitely true. The question is if the Spurs want to part with any of their assets to take a swing on a guy like Fox. Is he the guy? Is he the guy now? I love De'Aaron Fox. I think he could be a legitimate 1A in the NBA if he could find that "extra gear" with greater consistency. But he's not an absolutely natural fit with a big like Domas, and I'm not sure pairing him with Wemby is a slam dunk, either. No matter what assets are remaining in their cupboard after a big trade, the Spurs are likely going to take the week ahead to evaluate if Fox is the guy on which to stake their immediate future. If they were more assuredly a lock to get past the play-in, maybe taking that swing is worth it. But it's hard to integrate high usage lead ball handlers at mid-season.
I am in 100% agreement but let's have that discussion later because we need max value :)
 

pdxKingsFan

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One million dollar question on Fox though is his whistle and if it is really his fault for not selling or rubbing a ref wrong one day, or if it is just a Sacramento thing. Stern had the vision to understand that the Kings moving to Seattle would be horrible for the league but almost everyone else, and especially Silver (it seems) has been trying to bury us since then.
 
I am in 100% agreement but let's have that discussion later because we need max value :)
Haha indeed! I've been beating the max value drum since this drama started. I'm not looking at their asset sheet right this second, but if the Spurs are the Kings trading partner, max value for Fox means Castle, Sochan, Johnson, and as many first rounders as they can feasibly stomach. If I were them, I don't know if I take that deal! Because I might feel like I can afford to be patient with Wemby. And they've always been pretty conservative in their approach. But the modern NBA puts quite a lot of pressure on GMs who happen to secure a generational talent. It's a blessing and a curse, I suppose, so maybe the Spurs feel more ready to move than I think they are. I certainly hope that's the case, because even if the Kings don't ultimately deal with the Spurs, the more quality offers that are on the table, the better.
 

pdxKingsFan

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Ok so add Giddy to the list of people SA tried to acquire according to Fischer report (which is paywalled and a lot of the content leaked outside the paywall is highly sus, so grain of salt).

The Alien and the Predator lol

Maybe Fox should think more about his other destination options.
 
Haha indeed! I've been beating the max value drum since this drama started. I'm not looking at their asset sheet right this second, but if the Spurs are the Kings trading partner, max value for Fox means Castle, Sochan, Johnson, and as many first rounders as they can feasibly stomach. If I were them, I don't know if I take that deal! Because I might feel like I can afford to be patient with Wemby. And they've always been pretty conservative in their approach. But the modern NBA puts quite a lot of pressure on GMs who happen to secure a generational talent. It's a blessing and a curse, I suppose, so maybe the Spurs feel more ready to move than I think they are. I certainly hope that's the case, because even if the Kings don't ultimately deal with the Spurs, the more quality offers that are on the table, the better.
Outgoing:
Fox

Incoming:
Castle
Sochan
Johnson
2025 1st Round
2026 1st Round
2027 1st Round
2028 1st Round
2029 1st Round

Would be my BARE MINIMUM in this scenario. We must NOT walk out of this deal with less than 5 1st round picks.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Outgoing:
Fox

Incoming:
Castle
Sochan
Johnson
2025 1st Round
2026 1st Round
2027 1st Round
2028 1st Round
2029 1st Round

Would be my BARE MINIMUM in this scenario. We must NOT walk out of this deal with less than 5 1st round picks.
I'm not sure we get 5 if Castle is included. But if it is the two ATL picks and a 2026 we should accept that IF they release our pick swap and maybe that Minny pick they have in 2030.
 

pdxKingsFan

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Am I the only one who thinks the Spurs package sucks? Banking on a rookie SG/SF who can’t shoot and needs the ball to be effective.

I also don’t know why people think the Atlanta pick automatically goes top 5. There’s 10 teams in the league with worse records than them, and the lotto odds are a crap shoot
Unless you want to trade for Butler the most valuable thing we can get in this is picks. At least Castle is a known top 5 pick who plays tough nosed defense and may also be flippable or allow us to flip someone else.
 
Outgoing:
Fox

Incoming:
Castle
Sochan
Johnson
2025 1st Round
2026 1st Round
2027 1st Round
2028 1st Round
2029 1st Round

Would be my BARE MINIMUM in this scenario. We must NOT walk out of this deal with less than 5 1st round picks.
Then Fox will never be traded... there is no way we get a package like that. I would think general consensus would be a player like fox is worth 5 FRPs (of course depends on which FRP, protections, etc... .but lets just keep it simple). You put in Castle that would equal 1 to 2 FRP on the open market. Sochan probably = 1. Johnson maybe = 0.5 FRP, or a couple seconds.
 

pdxKingsFan

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Fair enough. I can accept walking away with no less than 3 1st round picks in this scenario.
It's the quality of the picks. 3 San Antonio picks vs. 2 ATL picks is like three nickels vs. two quarters. So hopefully the other pick we can snatch is also not a Spurs pick and then if we undo that pick swap that *could* be like trading an early second rounder for a mid-first (or heaven forbid a lotto pick given our own history).
 
Am I the only one who thinks the Spurs package sucks? Banking on a rookie SG/SF who can’t shoot and needs the ball to be effective.

I also don’t know why people think the Atlanta pick automatically goes top 5. There’s 10 teams in the league with worse records than them, and the lotto odds are a crap shoot
Eh, obviously not ideal, but it's pretty good for a "rebuild on the fly" type scenario. I like Sochan a lot, Castle is a great upside swing and we restock the warchest. Keon/Carter/Keegan/Sochan/Castle is pretty crazy upside defensively to surround Monk/DDR/Domas.

Ideally, I'd work with HOU, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.
 
Then Fox will never be traded... there is no way we get a package like that. I would think general consensus would be a player like fox is worth 5 FRPs (of course depends on which FRP, protections, etc... .but lets just keep it simple). You put in Castle that would equal 1 to 2 FRP on the open market. Sochan probably = 1. Johnson maybe = 0.5 FRP, or a couple seconds.
See my response above to @pdxKingsFan...
 

pdxKingsFan

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Staff member
Then Fox will never be traded... there is no way we get a package like that. I would think general consensus would be a player like fox is worth 5 FRPs (of course depends on which FRP, protections, etc... .but lets just keep it simple). You put in Castle that would equal 1 to 2 FRP on the open market. Sochan probably = 1. Johnson maybe = 0.5 FRP, or a couple seconds.
I think the baseline we have to go on failing an actual known offer on the table is something between the Spida trade and the Bridges trade.

Sochan and Castle are musts for me but if Spurs are waffling on Keldon Johnson and additional picks I am fine taking Zach Collins back. We can always move Huerter for Cam.
 
I think the baseline we have to go on failing an actual known offer on the table is something between the Spida trade and the Bridges trade.

Sochan and Castle are musts for me but if Spurs are waffling on Keldon Johnson and additional picks I am fine taking Zach Collins back. We can always move Huerter for Cam.
Fox for 3 1st round picks and 2 pick swaps plus a few fillers is a deal I'd be willing to agree to.
 

pdxKingsFan

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Staff member
Ideally, I'd work with HOU, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.
The closer a Spurs deal gets they have to consider at least putting in an offer. Granted I have spent a week in Houston and avoid even going to the airports in TX at all costs but certainly these two teams along with Dallas consider each other bitter rivals the way we would consider GSW and LAL?
 

pdxKingsFan

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Fox for 3 1st round picks and 2 pick swaps plus a few fillers is something I can agree to.
Hopefully we are talking to other clubs as well. I'd be happy to send him anywhere other than San Antonio if the deal was sweeter.

Preferably an East Coast club although I bet he enjoys more personal success out East whereas he'll totally be KD Jr. or Chris Bosh if he starts winning with Spurs.
 
The closer a Spurs deal gets they have to consider at least putting in an offer. Granted I have spent a week in Houston and avoid even going to the airports in TX at all costs but certainly these two teams along with Dallas consider each other bitter rivals the way we would consider GSW and LAL?
Yes, between the Rockets and the Spurs. That can be pretty intense. Not so much with respect to Dallas.
 
One million dollar question on Fox though is his whistle and if it is really his fault for not selling or rubbing a ref wrong one day, or if it is just a Sacramento thing. Stern had the vision to understand that the Kings moving to Seattle would be horrible for the league but almost everyone else, and especially Silver (it seems) has been trying to bury us since then.
For all of the good his tenure has accomplished on various social justice fronts, Silver has mostly been laser-focused on growing the NBA and expanding into new markets. I think there's some resentment in the league office that a more profitable market like Seattle was stiffed for two "lesser" markets like Oklahoma City and Sacramento. The NBA has always had difficulty competing for attention with the NFL, and Seattle is a market that Silver is surely annoyed the NBA abandoned.

California, on the other hand, just has the unusual distinction of being the only state in the union with four professional basketball franchises. I'm sure the default position of many is "Well, why?" Yes, it's our country's most populous state, but with two teams in Los Angeles (this is just... stupid, by the way, and always has been) and one team in the Bay Area, it's obvious that the Kings are in the smallest market of the four and are going to be the afterthought. It helps contribute to their punching bag status that they've been a poorly-run organization for most of their existence in Sacramento.

Pluck the Clippers out of Los Angeles and either move them back to San Diego or move them to Seattle, I say. Spread the franchises around a bit better. That will never happen, of course, because $$$. Los Angeles is such a massive media market that it can support the existence of two teams, no matter how stupid it is. Sacramento will never be a favored franchise because they're an NBA backwater in a state with much bigger fish, and they're an easy target for derision as a result, and that will remain so until they change their own fortunes. A more kind whistle from the refs doesn't feel like too much to ask, but the reality is that nobody's looking to do the Kings any favors. It remains surprising that David Stern was so dead-set on the Kings remaining in Sacramento, because it wasn't strictly a business decision.