[Game] 42/82: Kings vs. Wizards 19 JAN 2025, 6pm PT/9pm ET
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
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Len was always a guy who should be used in spots, when they need his size. Not a guy to go to every single game, in a routine rotation, because with today's teams the smaller "stretch" 5 or power forward at the 5 types are played often.
The mistake is to not use him in his best spots, for whatever reason. Like when you need to minimize a guy like Valancunius. Again, the difference now, is that Christie won't hesitate to use him in a spot when needed, whether or not he hasn't played in a game or two.
Use your small ball 5, along with your full sized center, to fill out a flexible rotation from game to game and in different situations within game
The mistake is to not use him in his best spots, for whatever reason. Like when you need to minimize a guy like Valancunius. Again, the difference now, is that Christie won't hesitate to use him in a spot when needed, whether or not he hasn't played in a game or two.
Use your small ball 5, along with your full sized center, to fill out a flexible rotation from game to game and in different situations within game
I think you're just being dense at this point. Sabonis plays a lot - Therefore, yes the "rotation piece" behind him at Center will play between 9 - 12 mpg a night. Which as stated, has been Len more-so than not when they've gone the traditional center route (non-Lyles minutes).
You can have your opinion and I and others can have theirs. I don't think you necessarily disagree with all of what I'm saying, just some of it which is fine.
My main thing to summarize everything is - Len has solid in his role. And the advocacy I'm seeing here to replace him with "XYZ traditional center who puts up counting stats" is short-sighted and wouldn't add anything better than what Len produces in his 9-12 mpg behind Sabonis WHEN HE IS OFTEN PAIRED WITH DeROZAN and FOX on the floor (a big point because offense is not needed from this spot).
You can have your opinion and I and others can have theirs. I don't think you necessarily disagree with all of what I'm saying, just some of it which is fine.
My main thing to summarize everything is - Len has solid in his role. And the advocacy I'm seeing here to replace him with "XYZ traditional center who puts up counting stats" is short-sighted and wouldn't add anything better than what Len produces in his 9-12 mpg behind Sabonis WHEN HE IS OFTEN PAIRED WITH DeROZAN and FOX on the floor (a big point because offense is not needed from this spot).
I think the screw up with Queta was Brown didn't want to invest in a development project when he was trying to win now. You could say the same about Sasha, you could even say it with Davion, Keon. For some reason he had a much wider leash with Colby.
The fact that he wound up on the Celtics was more to do with their cap circumstance and lack of options more than they picked out a gem in the rough. They signed him to a 2-way and then had no options but to bring him up because they didn't have big depth when Tingus Pingus was out so much and eventually converted him. In the process he got the minutes needed to develop into a serviceable NBA backup big.
Sucks because he was ours and I thought it was a great pick at the time. I hate to dogpile on a coach I genuinely liked and who helped us break our playoff drought but beyond the lack of defense when that was what we were sold, the failure to develop young guys (to the extent where even fans were turning on Keegan) is unforgivable when you are not only trying to win now but develop sustained success. The end of the golden years was largely a result of letting a few young pieces get away while whiffing on a few other picks. The Wallace situation also completely sucked and was bad planning on our end. But shy of doing an OKC and selling off your team while they are still playoff level that's what teams have to do to maintain, always have a next man up. I think Monte has shown skill at finding players late or UDFA but you still have to make them NBA players and Brown didn't seem to take that part of the job as seriously.
The fact that he wound up on the Celtics was more to do with their cap circumstance and lack of options more than they picked out a gem in the rough. They signed him to a 2-way and then had no options but to bring him up because they didn't have big depth when Tingus Pingus was out so much and eventually converted him. In the process he got the minutes needed to develop into a serviceable NBA backup big.
Sucks because he was ours and I thought it was a great pick at the time. I hate to dogpile on a coach I genuinely liked and who helped us break our playoff drought but beyond the lack of defense when that was what we were sold, the failure to develop young guys (to the extent where even fans were turning on Keegan) is unforgivable when you are not only trying to win now but develop sustained success. The end of the golden years was largely a result of letting a few young pieces get away while whiffing on a few other picks. The Wallace situation also completely sucked and was bad planning on our end. But shy of doing an OKC and selling off your team while they are still playoff level that's what teams have to do to maintain, always have a next man up. I think Monte has shown skill at finding players late or UDFA but you still have to make them NBA players and Brown didn't seem to take that part of the job as seriously.
Yeah, agreed. The Javale situation always felt like a "favor" to Brown to get him one of his guys. It's a small price to pay I suppose, but it still stings to see Queta basically perform perfectly as the back-up C we want and need because the coach wanted to bring one of his guys in. That's on Monte too for giving in.
Queta may have asked out so he could get a chance somewhere else? I don't know. It's not even entirely the McGee thing (bad as that was) because Brown was still the one running the minutes and would appear to prefer to play small ball when Domas is out which is why we're in a conundrum with Lyles being the only movable piece to add real salary back along with Huerter.
I really hope that Doug (assuming he is the guy going forward because he seems to really want a title more than anyone in this org as atonement for 2002) pushes for our MLE money to go towards a real quality backup big.
I really hope that Doug (assuming he is the guy going forward because he seems to really want a title more than anyone in this org as atonement for 2002) pushes for our MLE money to go towards a real quality backup big.
The problem was that Queta was never as effective against NBA players as Len or even McGee in his last season. Queta currently plays with a group of championship winning players. He isn't more effective than Len, if he plays for the Kings.
You might be wanting scoring from your backup center, but that isn't what Len is. He's a size defender/rebounder/screener.
You might be wanting scoring from your backup center, but that isn't what Len is. He's a size defender/rebounder/screener.
A good chunk of kings fans were out on Queta when we let him go including myself. I was begging Monte to draft him but thought he often underperformed when given a shot in the NBA. Always struggled rebounding which I found annoying given he was huge and athletic. He was super uncoordinated and often looked lost out there. He has done well for himself in Boston, sometimes it is about the right timing with the right team. Look at Westbrook over in Denver. Everyone mocked the Nuggets for signing him and now they are winning and he is starting over Aaron Gordon.
The Kings have in general as well. Christie has set the mantra of 40 a game and in the last 10 games they've literally been about at exactly that. Also they've gotten better shooting them. Christie is starting to find a decent balance on both ends and now that he's prioritizing a little more defense with the inclusion of Ellis, Carter, and even Len the Kings can win games against lesser opponents without having to shoot the lights out. The major difference since DC took over is the Kings are now top 5 in defense, there's the huge part of your turn around.
I want a guy that can play 15 MPG, regardless of match-up. Someone that can get Domas's minutes to a more manageable 33-34 a game rather than 36-38 MPG. I'm extremely worried that playing Domas top 5 minutes in the NBA year over year just increases his injury risk and he's just not as fresh as he could be if/when we get to a playoff series.
Jval vs Len isn't even worth a discussion. They aren't in the same realm of player and there's no metric that shows Len is a more effective NBA player than Jval, including the eye test.
So if Alex Len were on the Celtics right now, he'd have the same role as Queta? And would be better in it than him? Is that your claim?
Jval vs Len isn't even worth a discussion. They aren't in the same realm of player and there's no metric that shows Len is a more effective NBA player than Jval, including the eye test.
So if Alex Len were on the Celtics right now, he'd have the same role as Queta? And would be better in it than him? Is that your claim?
Valancuinas is a starting caliber center. My claim is that there are not 30 better starting centers than him. Not sure how he got mixed into this discussion somehow in comparison to Len, other than the fact that defensively Len does a better job against him than anyone on this current or former roster from the last few seasons.
I don't care about the fit on the Celtics. I care about the Kings and didn't see any evidence that Queta was as effective as Len
I don't care about the fit on the Celtics. I care about the Kings and didn't see any evidence that Queta was as effective as Len
The best version of that argument I can parse is that if you put big V in, every play better be a post up/isolation, and you're basically wasting money paying guys like Fox and DDR to watch Jonas go 1-on-1. Len is a more complementary player, and would be effective without getting touches. (And wouldn't annoy guys that expect a consistent shot diet)
Another point would be that Valančiūnas' performance vs the Kings is not his average performance. He is more effective against Domas than he is against anybody else in the league, so Kings fans may be a bit biased in their judgement of his abilities.
Another point would be that Valančiūnas' performance vs the Kings is not his average performance. He is more effective against Domas than he is against anybody else in the league, so Kings fans may be a bit biased in their judgement of his abilities.
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