Tyrese Watch
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
So many of these "All-Star" players just underperform for long stretches and are difficult fits around other star players. Lauri Markkenen was the hottest guy on the proverbial trade market this summer. He was going to get young players and all the draft picks like he was prime Kobe or something. Now, he is back to an above-average player, no longer an AS.
Siakim wasn't that guy
Lauri wasn't that guy
Derozen isn't that guy
Most teams aren't getting that guy unless they draft and develop them. Period.
Siakim wasn't that guy
Lauri wasn't that guy
Derozen isn't that guy
Most teams aren't getting that guy unless they draft and develop them. Period.
No, he's been great. That wasn't my point. Once you get past the top 13-15 guys in the NBA, there aren't long-term difference-makers. They can have periods of time where they look like world-beaters, but in general, they are playing a role (albeit an internal one) on the team they are on.
Lebron (not now)
Luka
Jokic
Giannis
Tatum
Steph
KD
Embiid (if healthy)
Ant
Shai (maybe...)
That's like the list of true difference-makers, and even then, half of those guys have some flaws.
Lebron (not now)
Luka
Jokic
Giannis
Tatum
Steph
KD
Embiid (if healthy)
Ant
Shai (maybe...)
That's like the list of true difference-makers, and even then, half of those guys have some flaws.
Ah I gotcha. I'd add a healthy Kawhi to that list as well. The Raptors had a handful of playoff appearances with DeRozan but really took off after the Kawhi trade. DeRozan is a really good player and I'm sure will have a spot in the HoF but he's never been the type of guy that can put a team on his back for a season and make a deep playoff run.
Lauri has been a head scratcher this year. I'm not really sure why he's struggling so badly. Keegan locked him up with ease last night.
Lauri has been a head scratcher this year. I'm not really sure why he's struggling so badly. Keegan locked him up with ease last night.
Tyrese also continues to be a terrible defender. The Pacers are currently 19th in offensive rating and 24th in defensive rating. When your POA defender is a matador, you'd better (a) have some defensive roleplayers getting major minutes who pick up the slack and/or (b) have a high powered offense to make up the difference, a la the Harden-era Rockets. Right now the Pacers are neither.
We've been seeing this sort of thing for awhile now. A team that really wasn't for real and was riding a hot wave of momentum make it really far and then flatten out. Hali is a good player, not a franchise one. Big numbers, but the impact is up and down. Also, the other issue is this is what happens to teams that are basically all offense. They were literally a team that took the Kings offensive rating record away at one point and were pretty much right in those offensive vs. defensive ratings areas the Kings were to a T. All offense + no defense = short runs to the top if you do get there.
There may be something to that. Mathurin has never been good defensively just like Haliburton, but Siakam has also declined on that end. To be fair that started slipping a bit even in Toronto, but when I watch the Pacers now he seems like he's really not engaged on that end of the floor like he used to be.
Benn has never played great defense but he was projected as someone with the physical tools to be competent on that end and he's only seemed to regress outside of rebounding. I don't have any answers but I feel like once they shipped Buddy out they should have at least marginally improved defensively.
I think he is a good player for the Grizz and certainly is a "difference maker" for them, in that I don't think they are very good if Ja is out. He makes the difference between them being mediocre/bad and good, and potentially very good. But I also don't think he is an elite difference maker that takes a very good team to great or elite. The original post listed about 10 guys who are elite difference makers that can make a very good team great. I don't think Ja is that. I also don't think that Domas or Fox are that on their own either. I think they belong in a tier below the greatest difference makers, and that you need a couple of those guys to be very good if you don't have one of the elite ones.
I wouldn't. I think Fox has advantages over Ja in terms of shooting and defense. But even if I concede the point and agree that Fox and Ja are the same tier, that is still a tier below the true difference makers. This debate began with the assertion that Ja was missing from the list another poster made about true difference makers. I wouldn't consider Ja OR Fox at the level of the people on that list - Giannis, Jokic, Tatum, Ant, Shai, KD, Luka etc... Fox and Ja are great players who can make bad teams good or good teams very good, but the jury is still out on whether either is the difference maker that can make a very good team elite.
I think adding Anthony Edwards into the elite tier is still pre-mature. He had a great year last year but his team seriously underperformed before that and so far this season they're 12-11 and don't appear to be ascending to the top of the Western Conference as predicted. He's in the same tier as Fox and Morant, imo. Individually they're all elite scorers but there are still question marks about their leadership qualities.