[Game] 18/82: Kings vs. Thunder 25 NOV 2024, 7pm PT/10pm ET
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
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I just think its lazy reasoning in general (not directed at you), because anyone who watched basketball in the past, knows that good and great teams could compete against today's teams. Do we really believe that the early 2000's Kings teams couldn't win 50 games playing today's teams, unless they they changed their entire scheme to shoot ~30 3's?
My buddy was part of youth basketball in Florida a couple years ago and he said everyone was obsessed with becoming the next curry. I think it’s gonna be imperative that the comish make some hard decisions and institute some rules that might not be very popular. Make some hard decisions now that will pay off in the future.
I refuse to believe that there's only one style of basketball offense that can work anymore. If this is the new normal and teams have to shoot 40+ threes per game to stay competitive I'm going to strongly consider abandoning the NBA as a league I care about. At least until something changes. It took almost 30 years but MLB did eventually abandon the "all homers all the time" style of offense which started in the late 80s and bring back base stealing so there is hope. Something is going to have to change with the rules though because this shooting arms race is not course-correcting on its own.
It's not necessarily that a few teams shooting only threes is boring. We had D'Antoni style offenses for quite awhile and it was interesting seeing what happens when they faced off against a grind it out defensive minded team. It's that all 30 teams have committed to the same offense which makes this situation intolerable to me. When I watch basketball I want to see a chess match of mental strategy and physical skill not a shooting warmup drill performed with a shot clock and referees.
It's not necessarily that a few teams shooting only threes is boring. We had D'Antoni style offenses for quite awhile and it was interesting seeing what happens when they faced off against a grind it out defensive minded team. It's that all 30 teams have committed to the same offense which makes this situation intolerable to me. When I watch basketball I want to see a chess match of mental strategy and physical skill not a shooting warmup drill performed with a shot clock and referees.
Mix-and-match these Kings O-ratings (points scored per 100 possessions) with the seasons:
A) 105.6
B) 105.9
C) 109.0
D) 109.9
E) 110.3
F) 114.0
G) 116.9
H) 119.4
00-01
01-02
02-03
03-04
21-22
22-23
23-24
24-25
A) 105.6
B) 105.9
C) 109.0
D) 109.9
E) 110.3
F) 114.0
G) 116.9
H) 119.4
00-01
01-02
02-03
03-04
21-22
22-23
23-24
24-25
Answers:
A) 00-01
B) 02-03
C) 01-02
D) 21-22
E) 03-04
F) 24-25
G) 23-24
H) 22-23
Of the last four years, only the pre-Brown, mostly-pre-Domas team had a worse ORtg than our best Glory Days team (at least, best in ORtg), and the Brown/Domas teams are miles ahead. Leaguewide, scoring is up, and up a lot, because teams and players have mastered and maximized the three-point shot. Yes, those Glory Days teams had better defensive numbers, but they put those defensive numbers up against teams and players who didn't/couldn't shoot the three. If our team today had to play a Glory Days team, and you took away the three point line, that Glory Days team kills us. If you leave in the three point line, we beat them, and possibly handily. The game has changed.
So yes, I really do believe that the Glory Days Kings teams would not win 50 games in today's NBA without changing their offensive scheme.
A) 00-01
B) 02-03
C) 01-02
D) 21-22
E) 03-04
F) 24-25
G) 23-24
H) 22-23
Of the last four years, only the pre-Brown, mostly-pre-Domas team had a worse ORtg than our best Glory Days team (at least, best in ORtg), and the Brown/Domas teams are miles ahead. Leaguewide, scoring is up, and up a lot, because teams and players have mastered and maximized the three-point shot. Yes, those Glory Days teams had better defensive numbers, but they put those defensive numbers up against teams and players who didn't/couldn't shoot the three. If our team today had to play a Glory Days team, and you took away the three point line, that Glory Days team kills us. If you leave in the three point line, we beat them, and possibly handily. The game has changed.
So yes, I really do believe that the Glory Days Kings teams would not win 50 games in today's NBA without changing their offensive scheme.
The game has changed. We have a cheat code that team wasn't ready to master.
And let's think about this. Were they better defensively? Yes, but because teams weren't jacking 30+ threes a night, they were sucked in tighter to the paint. Force them to guard the three, and we get better spacing down low which works against that defensive advantage. Does our defense kinda suck? Yes! But the biggest problem with our defense is being unable to guard the three - which that team can't really hurt us with. We immediately improve on defense just because they can't pick on our "hole", and we also get the ability to suck in tighter on the paint, so our defense gets much better.
So we already have a better offense. The nature of our offense hurts their defense, so advantage us. The nature of their offense helps our defense, so advantage us. The rules are the same, the game is different. We don't have to like it, but we should acknowledge it.
And let's think about this. Were they better defensively? Yes, but because teams weren't jacking 30+ threes a night, they were sucked in tighter to the paint. Force them to guard the three, and we get better spacing down low which works against that defensive advantage. Does our defense kinda suck? Yes! But the biggest problem with our defense is being unable to guard the three - which that team can't really hurt us with. We immediately improve on defense just because they can't pick on our "hole", and we also get the ability to suck in tighter on the paint, so our defense gets much better.
So we already have a better offense. The nature of our offense hurts their defense, so advantage us. The nature of their offense helps our defense, so advantage us. The rules are the same, the game is different. We don't have to like it, but we should acknowledge it.
Yep, different game. How much does it hurt the Glory Days Kings defense if they aren't allowed to hand check?
I'm not a big tennis guy so I'm not going to try to name names, but you can always find the following situation:
Superstar A is basically guaranteed to beat 20th-ranked star B on a hard court. 20th-ranked star B is basically guaranteed to beat Superstar A on a clay court. Same rules, different game.
I'm not a big tennis guy so I'm not going to try to name names, but you can always find the following situation:
Superstar A is basically guaranteed to beat 20th-ranked star B on a hard court. 20th-ranked star B is basically guaranteed to beat Superstar A on a clay court. Same rules, different game.
I generally agree with you (I think), in that I don't believe the opposition 3PM would be as big of an issue if we were making up for it somewhere else on the court.
I could only watch the first half of the Brooklyn and OKC games - but - aside from a few possessions - those teams got whatever they wanted. Letting them score 30+ in each quarter is Walton era defence. Brooklyn was especially frustrating in that they had one moderately talented guy who obviously wanted to take every shot, but their team had one turnover at the half.
On offence, what are we doing? We don't pass as much as the beam team, are near the bottom in assists and potential assists, don't seem to attack the rim that often, don't use Sabonis as a facilitator as much. Murray has been in a bit of a funk, which I am OK with because it happens, but asking him to create for himself off the dribble from the top of the key is not how I think he will break out of it.
Most concerning though is we don't look like we are having much fun. Maybe we are tired, injured, and in a bit of pain. And when we get a couple of wins the ball will move more and fall through the net more. Earlier this year we had the 5th best offence and maybe 11th best defence. We had a 10 game stretch where we were 7-3 with some close losses.
I could only watch the first half of the Brooklyn and OKC games - but - aside from a few possessions - those teams got whatever they wanted. Letting them score 30+ in each quarter is Walton era defence. Brooklyn was especially frustrating in that they had one moderately talented guy who obviously wanted to take every shot, but their team had one turnover at the half.
On offence, what are we doing? We don't pass as much as the beam team, are near the bottom in assists and potential assists, don't seem to attack the rim that often, don't use Sabonis as a facilitator as much. Murray has been in a bit of a funk, which I am OK with because it happens, but asking him to create for himself off the dribble from the top of the key is not how I think he will break out of it.
Most concerning though is we don't look like we are having much fun. Maybe we are tired, injured, and in a bit of pain. And when we get a couple of wins the ball will move more and fall through the net more. Earlier this year we had the 5th best offence and maybe 11th best defence. We had a 10 game stretch where we were 7-3 with some close losses.
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