KING DEMAR
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
With how much Brown ran switch and put guys like Keegan at the point of attack, what is a position? haha. As I said prior, DDR actually played a lot of PF essentially with the Bulls. Brown loves guard lineups, and he saw great success when he was with the Warriors. If he's going to do it, at least now he finally has the tools I guess.
I mean, DDR in means lower PPG across the board. Just the way adding a high USG player works.
But I also think he's a guy that's very willing to play in a team system and be a key part of our "share the rock" playstyle. He's been too good of a passer his whole career not to be.
In terms of Keon's PPG... who cares? If he continues his elite shooting and the defense holds up from a season ago, he'll be on the short-list for an all-defensive team award, then it really doesn't matter if he's 8 PPG or 14 PPG. We have the offense to make up for a "lackluster" scorer. We don't have the defender like Keon.
But I also think he's a guy that's very willing to play in a team system and be a key part of our "share the rock" playstyle. He's been too good of a passer his whole career not to be.
In terms of Keon's PPG... who cares? If he continues his elite shooting and the defense holds up from a season ago, he'll be on the short-list for an all-defensive team award, then it really doesn't matter if he's 8 PPG or 14 PPG. We have the offense to make up for a "lackluster" scorer. We don't have the defender like Keon.
no doubt Fox needed an additional player that can take the scoring burden off of him. One would hope that Fox does not revert back to his 2023-2024 season of chucking 10 plus three's because he has DeMar working in the painted area, which so happens to be occupied by Sabonis too who refuses to shoot on most nights. It was a move that had to be made though and with minimal assets going out, it's worth a try. We don't know how long Monte has to build this squad
With DDR taking over the 3 spot in the starting lineup, I think you absolutely HAVE to start Keon at the 2. Starting Monk alongside DDR and Fox makes no sense - they are all high usage scorers, and none of them are knockdown outside shooters. Starting Fox-DDR-Sabonis, and surrounding them with Keegan and Keon makes so much more sense. Allow Keegan and Keon to focus on the two most difficult defensive assignments and set a strong defensive intensity from the tipoff, let Keegan take a bit more of a backseat offensively, and add a classic 3/D guy like Keon to take a low usage role in the starting lineup. Mike is going to need to talk to Monk and convince him that his best place continues to be on the bench unit, where he can be the high usage guy we know and love.
If I were trying to optimize the current roster, I would probably do something like:
Fox (32)/Carter (12)/Monk (4)
Ellis (20)/Monk (24)/Carter (4)
DDR (28)/Huerter (16)/Ellis (4)
Keegan (32)/ Lyles (12)/DDR (4)
Sabonis (32)/Len (10)/ Lyles (6)
That gives you:
Fox, Sabonis, DDR, Keegan- 32 minutes
Monk- 28
Ellis- 24
Lyles- 18
Huerter, Carter- 16
Len - 10
That gives you some room for your traditional lineups, while also giving you space to tinker with a few different things: (Fox-Carter-Ellis-Keegan); some Monk point guard minutes and also a few DDR minutes at the 4 (like a Monk-Ellis-Huerter-DDR lineup). You would still get 10 or so minutes of Len (which seems to be Mike's limit), while also allowing for some small ball Lyles lineups. If you consolidate from 10 to 9 men, you are probably squeezing out Huerter or Len.
More ideally, you try to trade Huerter for a bench 3/4. The names that have been discussed on this board make a lot of sense: DFS, Cam Johnson, Grant Williams, Thuybulle. I suppose you could even look at Kuzma. All of the guys could work (salary-wise) in a package for either Huerter or Huerter and McDaniels, except Thuybulle. For Thuybulle you would have to add in some salary coming back (Kris Murray would fit perfectly
) But if you got one of these guys, you could easily give them the 16 minutes allocated to Huerter, and then skim a few minutes off Len and Lyles to make this a 20-24 minute per game reserve role. Something like:
Fox, Sabonis, DDR, Keegan- 32 minutes
Monk- 28
Ellis and new bench wing (DFS, Cam, Williams, Thuybulle)- 24
Lyles, Carter- 14
Len - 8
If I were trying to optimize the current roster, I would probably do something like:
Fox (32)/Carter (12)/Monk (4)
Ellis (20)/Monk (24)/Carter (4)
DDR (28)/Huerter (16)/Ellis (4)
Keegan (32)/ Lyles (12)/DDR (4)
Sabonis (32)/Len (10)/ Lyles (6)
That gives you:
Fox, Sabonis, DDR, Keegan- 32 minutes
Monk- 28
Ellis- 24
Lyles- 18
Huerter, Carter- 16
Len - 10
That gives you some room for your traditional lineups, while also giving you space to tinker with a few different things: (Fox-Carter-Ellis-Keegan); some Monk point guard minutes and also a few DDR minutes at the 4 (like a Monk-Ellis-Huerter-DDR lineup). You would still get 10 or so minutes of Len (which seems to be Mike's limit), while also allowing for some small ball Lyles lineups. If you consolidate from 10 to 9 men, you are probably squeezing out Huerter or Len.
More ideally, you try to trade Huerter for a bench 3/4. The names that have been discussed on this board make a lot of sense: DFS, Cam Johnson, Grant Williams, Thuybulle. I suppose you could even look at Kuzma. All of the guys could work (salary-wise) in a package for either Huerter or Huerter and McDaniels, except Thuybulle. For Thuybulle you would have to add in some salary coming back (Kris Murray would fit perfectly
) But if you got one of these guys, you could easily give them the 16 minutes allocated to Huerter, and then skim a few minutes off Len and Lyles to make this a 20-24 minute per game reserve role. Something like:Fox, Sabonis, DDR, Keegan- 32 minutes
Monk- 28
Ellis and new bench wing (DFS, Cam, Williams, Thuybulle)- 24
Lyles, Carter- 14
Len - 8
When one of my teams is able to acquire an all-star level talent without having to sacrifice a first round draft pick, that acquisition automatically defaults to a VICTORY in my book.
Can't wait to see what else, if anything at all, Monte has up his sleeves before we tip off the 2024-2025 campaign...
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Can't wait to see what else, if anything at all, Monte has up his sleeves before we tip off the 2024-2025 campaign...
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
He is definetly not bottom 5 on defense. Even today he showed why he is head a shoulders better than most starting SGs. He is fast, long, and can create turnovers. That’s like saying Doug Christie was a bottom 5 SG. You realize you don’t have to put 15 ppg in impact winning. If you saw Christie play and tell me he didn’t win games then there is something wrong with your perception.
This is it exactly. The potential for DeMar's presence on the team to greatly help Keegan's development is what tipped the scales for me from "I'm interested" to "we need to make this happen!". In the short-term Keegan gets to return to a 3-and-D role that he's ideally suited for and focus on improving his efficiency by only taking good shots. And in the long-term he's now teammates with the best guy in the league to learn from as he looks to fill out the mid-range and foul drawing aspects of being a leading scorer.
We already saw what a whole off-season of dueling De'Aaron could do for Keegan's defense. He's a quick learner and he wants to get better. Developing Keegan into a two-way star still looks like our best path to a championship with this roster so the mentorship aspect of getting DeRozan here cannot be overstated.
We already saw what a whole off-season of dueling De'Aaron could do for Keegan's defense. He's a quick learner and he wants to get better. Developing Keegan into a two-way star still looks like our best path to a championship with this roster so the mentorship aspect of getting DeRozan here cannot be overstated.
So what? That’s a popularity award, not really an indicator of greatness.
Don’t get me wrong, DDR is an all-star caliber talent but citing and comparing all-star appearances is beyond meaningless. For example, De’Aaron has been an all-star level talent for many years but got overlooked and squeezed out most the time due to a popularity vote. Same applies to all the names you mentioned, they were worthy more times than they they appeared.
Don’t get me wrong, DDR is an all-star caliber talent but citing and comparing all-star appearances is beyond meaningless. For example, De’Aaron has been an all-star level talent for many years but got overlooked and squeezed out most the time due to a popularity vote. Same applies to all the names you mentioned, they were worthy more times than they they appeared.
We’re also living in a new, different era where professional athletes are maintaining a high level of productivity for longer periods of time across a multitude of sports.
In tennis, the big 3 of Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic were still dominating into their mid-to-late 30’s in a sport where historically 30 was retirement age. Tom Brady played in the NFL until age 45. LeBron James is still playing at a high level in the NBA at nearly 40 years old.
They represent a few of the high profile examples, but are far from the only ones doing it.
Historical precedent isn’t applying so much to athletes of the new millennium.
In tennis, the big 3 of Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic were still dominating into their mid-to-late 30’s in a sport where historically 30 was retirement age. Tom Brady played in the NFL until age 45. LeBron James is still playing at a high level in the NBA at nearly 40 years old.
They represent a few of the high profile examples, but are far from the only ones doing it.
Historical precedent isn’t applying so much to athletes of the new millennium.
Webber was acquired via trade, same with Brad Miller. Malik Monk, sure, but was he considered as a really good player at the time? He's definitely top 5 free agent signing at this point though. Definitely Vlade and Bobby Jack ---- 25 years ago! Even John Salmons was almost 20 years ago. In the past decade it's been players like Rondo, George Hill, Old Vince Carter, etc. DeRozan signing here is a big deal. I know I said 'never,' but I guess if we are picking nits, then its more accurate to say 'very rarely' so you got me there.
There are two legitimate concerns…
Let’s also keep in mind that DeRozan coming off the bench doesn’t mean that I’d lessen his minutes. I’d still put him in a 32+ mpg super-sub role. The idea for him to come off the bench is really just about matchups and maximizing the fit & synergy of our roster since there are significant questions on how that’s going to work.
You could obviously still start him and sub him after the first 5-6 min (similar to what we did with Fox this year) to offset him as much as possible with Fox/Sabonis and to give us more size/length at the PF spot, but I’d prefer to start with that better offensive fit and more defense right out of the gate to set the tone.
Don’t get me wrong. I like DeRozan and think he’s a talent upgrade, and I have mentioned that I think it’s a low risk swing by Monte that still gives us flexibility to make adjustments down the road if it doesn’t work out. However, fit has an important role when determining how far your team can go.
And perhaps having DeRozan come off the bench out of the gate may not be the best approach in an effort to keep DeRozan happy. However, perhaps it’s something that he “graduates” to later in the season, the following season, etc. as he comes to realization that it may be best for the team to play that role. That’s essentially what Westbrook did in LAC. They had him starting originally, and he made the decision to come off the bench as he had enough self awareness to recognize the team would be better with him off the bench. Perhaps we’d need DeRozan to arrive at a similar conclusion himself over time vs. forcing him into that role immediately.
- How does a Fox, DeRozan, and Sabonis offense work considering the underwhelming floor spacing that core provides for each other?
- How are we going to fare against teams with size & length considering a starting frontcourt of DeRozan, Murray, and Sabonis is below average in that department?
Let’s also keep in mind that DeRozan coming off the bench doesn’t mean that I’d lessen his minutes. I’d still put him in a 32+ mpg super-sub role. The idea for him to come off the bench is really just about matchups and maximizing the fit & synergy of our roster since there are significant questions on how that’s going to work.
You could obviously still start him and sub him after the first 5-6 min (similar to what we did with Fox this year) to offset him as much as possible with Fox/Sabonis and to give us more size/length at the PF spot, but I’d prefer to start with that better offensive fit and more defense right out of the gate to set the tone.
Don’t get me wrong. I like DeRozan and think he’s a talent upgrade, and I have mentioned that I think it’s a low risk swing by Monte that still gives us flexibility to make adjustments down the road if it doesn’t work out. However, fit has an important role when determining how far your team can go.
And perhaps having DeRozan come off the bench out of the gate may not be the best approach in an effort to keep DeRozan happy. However, perhaps it’s something that he “graduates” to later in the season, the following season, etc. as he comes to realization that it may be best for the team to play that role. That’s essentially what Westbrook did in LAC. They had him starting originally, and he made the decision to come off the bench as he had enough self awareness to recognize the team would be better with him off the bench. Perhaps we’d need DeRozan to arrive at a similar conclusion himself over time vs. forcing him into that role immediately.
Kings are starting to look very hot for the next season
Really hope brown will change his let’s go for D attitude and just build on team that will simply outscore the opponents…
With all Domas , Fox , Murray , monk , DDR more then capable to score 25plus I all about time to return for the successful best offence in the league from the last but one season …
We will be really nice team to watch)
Really hope brown will change his let’s go for D attitude and just build on team that will simply outscore the opponents…
With all Domas , Fox , Murray , monk , DDR more then capable to score 25plus I all about time to return for the successful best offence in the league from the last but one season …
We will be really nice team to watch
)I think the spacing argument is overblown.
1 - Stat that I heard yesterday - DeDozan shot 39% from the corner three. If he is going from the corner, to the dunkers spot, and then to the elbow for late shot clock iso - that would provide plenty of spacing and movement for Sabonis to initiate offense at the opposite elbow.
2 - Fox’s 3 point shot might improve again. And just leaving him open isn’t a great strategy because it also opens up driving opportunities.
3 - Sabonis needs to shoot more 3’s anyway.
4 - Keon and Murray are lights out 3pt shooters and have potential as movement shooters (I believe Murray will return to form).
5 - DeRozan is a much better passer/playmakers than Barnes - so the Kings offense will be more dynamic.
I agree that on defense, it would be nice to have a rangy 4 that could provide some rim protection. But you can’t have everything - and I highly doubt DeRozan signed on to come off the bench in year 1.
1 - Stat that I heard yesterday - DeDozan shot 39% from the corner three. If he is going from the corner, to the dunkers spot, and then to the elbow for late shot clock iso - that would provide plenty of spacing and movement for Sabonis to initiate offense at the opposite elbow.
2 - Fox’s 3 point shot might improve again. And just leaving him open isn’t a great strategy because it also opens up driving opportunities.
3 - Sabonis needs to shoot more 3’s anyway.
4 - Keon and Murray are lights out 3pt shooters and have potential as movement shooters (I believe Murray will return to form).
5 - DeRozan is a much better passer/playmakers than Barnes - so the Kings offense will be more dynamic.
I agree that on defense, it would be nice to have a rangy 4 that could provide some rim protection. But you can’t have everything - and I highly doubt DeRozan signed on to come off the bench in year 1.