Kings picking 13th overall (formerly the draft lotto thread)

[pdxKingsFan]

Can we agree on a contract extension with Monk, but still operate w/ the MLE using his cap hold and sign that contract first.

@Capt. Factorial ??

I know there were some changes in regards to the ordering of signings in the last CBA.

Here's our cap table.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/sacramento-kings/yearly

I think these are the numbers to look at - seems like if we released holds on Len or McGee we'd get under that number. Surely we won't bring both back?

Also trading our pick would change the numbers.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Can we agree on a contract extension with Monk, but still operate w/ the MLE using his cap hold and sign that contract first.

@Capt. Factorial ??

I know there were some changes in regards to the ordering of signings in the last CBA.

If we use the non-taxpayer MLE, then we are hard-capped at the first apron. It all depends on the numbers, but the hard-capping means the order doesn't really matter anymore. If Monk + "MLE" contract puts us over the first apron, we can only use the taxpayer MLE, and not the larger non-taxpayer MLE.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

For those curious (I assume the new TV deals may push some of these future numbers) but here's what we're looking at with the various MLE levels.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Can anyone explain to me why the NBPA agreed to this CBA? It just seems like nobody except players earning the maximum contracts wins here and I can imagine teams will be reluctant to pay out the supermax at some point.

 

[SacTownKid]

Can anyone explain to me why the NBPA agreed to this CBA? It just seems like nobody except players earning the maximum contracts wins here and I can imagine teams will be reluctant to pay out the supermax at some point.

It's pretty much always been that way haha. The funny thing is the NBA put all these new provisions in and clearly, teams don't care. You want to be a legit, long term contender? Get ready to put on two aprons, lol. The teams getting boned are the ones that try and keep the flexibility while competing. It might work if a team gets lucky with rookie contract players coming in ready to mow down the competition Bron style or luck their way into a superstar MLE signing but other than that is likely a nope.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

It's pretty much always been that way haha. The funny thing is the NBA put all these new provisions in and clearly, teams don't care. You want to be a legit, long term contender? Get ready to put on two aprons, lol. The teams getting boned are the ones that try and keep the flexibility while competing. It might work if a team gets lucky with rookie contract players coming in ready to mow down the competition Bron style or luck their way into a superstar MLE signing but other than that is likely a nope.

The second apron is far more restrictive than it has ever been. No buy out contracts. No MLE. If you trade you can't trade for one cent over what you send out. They did this because teams like the Warriors and Lakers weren't deterred by paying the tax. But it is going to punish teams that have two or more good players really fast.

Again though, the players nearly went through a lockout or strike to get this, I am not sure why they did because it means in 3-5 years time 80% of the league is going to be on either rookie or veteran's minimum contracts.

 

[SacTownKid]

The second apron is far more restrictive than it has ever been. No buy out contracts. No MLE. If you trade you can't trade for one cent over what you send out. They did this because teams like the Warriors and Lakers weren't deterred by paying the tax. But it is going to punish teams that have two or more good players really fast.

Again though, the players nearly went through a lockout or strike to get this, I am not sure why they did because it means in 3-5 years time 80% of the league is going to be on either rookie or veteran's minimum contracts.

That's why teams are blowing through it now, adding as much as they can on the front end. From what it looks like you won't want to tip toe your way up to that 2nd apron because you're getting punished either way. Gather as much firepower as you can and roll on.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

That's why teams are blowing through it now, adding as much as they can on the front end. From what it looks like you won't want to tip toe your way up to that 2nd apron because you're getting punished either way. Gather as much firepower as you can and roll on.

I think that would be a big mistake because teams below it will be able to capitalize on market corrections and other team's mistakes. Plus when the cap goes up they should be able to jump like teams did in 2016.

There will be a market reset and a time to pounce and locking in a horrible contract just to do it I think is massive short thinking.

 

[SacTownKid]

I think that would be a big mistake because teams below it will be able to capitalize on market corrections and other team's mistakes. Plus when the cap goes up they should be able to jump like teams did in 2016.

There will be a market reset and a time to pounce and locking in a horrible contract just to do it I think is massive short thinking.

Depends on your timelines. I can totally see why teams like the Suns and Clippers did what they did. With how difficult it is to make moves as time goes on, that's why you have to kind of just do it and squirrel those nuts away at the start. The pain comes later.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Depends on your timelines. I can totally see why teams like the Suns and Clippers did what they did. With how difficult it is to make moves as time goes on, that's why you have to kind of just do it and squirrel those nuts away at the start. The pain comes later.

If there was a player I thought pushed us into WCF contention (and that would be WCF or you fire people because you're that damned good) I do it but I really don't think there is more than overpaid overhyped guys that aren't needle movers or your less sexy "middle manager" moves that could actually be missing pieces. Either you believe in Fox and Domas or you don't. Because that's what the team is built on, if you need a 30m dollar per year player to contend, you probably have to lose one of those. Nobody trading a great player for Barnes. This is a guy we got for one of the random players named JJ and have pretty much paid the same unexciting 18m per year contract for 6 years going now.

 

[SLAB]

If there was a player I thought pushed us into WCF contention (and that would be WCF or you fire people because you're that damned good) I do it but I really don't think there is more than overpaid overhyped guys that aren't needle movers or your less sexy "middle manager" moves that could actually be missing pieces. Either you believe in Fox and Domas or you don't. Because that's what the team is built on, if you need a 30m dollar per year player to contend, you probably have to lose one of those. Nobody trading a great player for Barnes. This is a guy we got for one of the random players named JJ and have pretty much paid the same unexciting 18m per year contract for 6 years going now.

Fox and Domas won’t be enough. The hope is Keegan gets there, but that’s very up in the air. Monte needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat. It’s possible, he’s swung before. He needs to again. And if it involves trading Keegan … as you said, this team is built on Fox and Domas, and I don’t believe in them as a Big 2. There needs to be a third, and do we wait until maybe just maybe KM maybe eventually gets there? Does that fit any sort of timeframe?

 

[SacTownKid]

If there was a player I thought pushed us into WCF contention (and that would be WCF or you fire people because you're that damned good) I do it but I really don't think there is more than overpaid overhyped guys that aren't needle movers or your less sexy "middle manager" moves that could actually be missing pieces. Either you believe in Fox and Domas or you don't. Because that's what the team is built on, if you need a 30m dollar per year player to contend, you probably have to lose one of those. Nobody trading a great player for Barnes. This is a guy we got for one of the random players named JJ and have pretty much paid the same unexciting 18m per year contract for 6 years going now.

It's not always about belief, it's about being realistic. Domas is the type of player that can make almost any combo of talent work IMO. Kind of like Vlade did. The reality is whether you're paying that 30 million to one better player, or a combination of Huerter, Barnes, and Sasha, you're still paying the same price. This is about condensing the depth into a focal point of star power. Monte has desperately been trying to do that and he's right for doing so from what the results have been so far. Been through it before many times, this is why Monte has to look at the damaged goods aisle for the payoff. Look at the Suns, the damage they did to themselves was the trades they needed to make the jump they wanted. In terms of their cap, they were headed for a nightmare regardless with Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Ayton, and CP3 or whatever replacements they attempted to get. Durants older but no question, they picked up someone still producing far beyond any of those other guys.

 

[bball_nomad]

It's not always about belief, it's about being realistic. Domas is the type of player that can make almost any combo of talent work IMO. Kind of like Vlade did. The reality is whether you're paying that 30 million to one better player, or a combination of Huerter, Barnes, and Sasha, you're still paying the same price. This is about condensing the depth into a focal point of star power. Monte has desperately been trying to do that and he's right for doing so from what the results have been so far. Been through it before many times, this is why Monte has to look at the damaged goods aisle for the payoff. Look at the Suns, the damage they did to themselves was the trades they needed to make the jump they wanted. In terms of their cap, they were headed for a nightmare regardless with Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Ayton, and CP3 or whatever replacements they attempted to get. Durants older but no question, they picked up someone still producing far beyond any of those other guys.

Paying one guy 30 mils or having 3 other guys for the same $$$ most of the time works. Though it didn't work with Kings last season and I don't see any bright light in the future either. Barnes was HUGE disappointment, Huerter - completely meh and where was Sasha?
With Monk coming back - we need Monte to get a starting PF fit for the team, competing on the possible highest level. I don't mind even if it's a rookie. If a rookie tall, long PF starts alongside Domas - such rookie will be schooled well and quick. Domas bball IQ is something very unique. Any player who plays alongside Domas has easy, best times of their lives.

 

[sactowndog]

It's not always about belief, it's about being realistic. Domas is the type of player that can make almost any combo of talent work IMO. Kind of like Vlade did. The reality is whether you're paying that 30 million to one better player, or a combination of Huerter, Barnes, and Sasha, you're still paying the same price. This is about condensing the depth into a focal point of star power. Monte has desperately been trying to do that and he's right for doing so from what the results have been so far. Been through it before many times, this is why Monte has to look at the damaged goods aisle for the payoff. Look at the Suns, the damage they did to themselves was the trades they needed to make the jump they wanted. In terms of their cap, they were headed for a nightmare regardless with Cam Johnson, Mikal Bridges, Ayton, and CP3 or whatever replacements they attempted to get. Durants older but no question, they picked up someone still producing far beyond any of those other guys.

I would argue the opposite. Domas being unwilling/unable to be a threat from 3 and being a non factor at the rim really limits the types of players you can build around him.

 

[SacTownKid]

I would argue the opposite. Domas being unwilling/unable to be a threat from 3 and being a non factor at the rim really limits the types of players you can build around him.

Maybe in a way but it's not like he's completely incapable. He's not someone who has absolutely no touch beyond 18 feet. That said, when I say TALENT I'm not talking about players that have huge gaps in there skill level. Someone like LaVine doesn't really have any faults offensively. All of his metrics pretty much dictate that when healthy, he's an all star/star level player.

 

[macadocious]

Barnes
Huerter
Duarte
13
Future 1st

for Jimmy Buckets

our 2nd rounders for Suns 22

 

[pdxKingsFan]

How about we take TDS or DaRon Holmes at 13, two seconds to PHX for 22 for Dunn, and try to swing Huerter to Indy for a S&T on Toppin?

Barnes will need to be traded and maybe could be packaged with Davion in this scenario, but we could wait until deadline? Possibly a deal with the Nets if Jordi is interested.

 

[sactowndog]

Going to be interesting at 13. I think Rob Dillingham is the best player available and that ethos has been Monte’s approach.

I think Davion shows what happens when you draft under 6’ 3” players into a crowded backcourt. It is almost impossible to trade like value small for big.

 

[SacTownKid]

Going to be interesting at 13. I think Rob Dillingham is the best player available and that ethos has been Monte’s approach.

I think Davion shows what happens when you draft under 6’ 3” players into a crowded backcourt. It is almost impossible to trade like value small for big.

I think Monte learned his lesson on drafting small G's that don't fill needs. Carter? Bub? I can see. A 165 pound PG? Eh, Monte knows better unless he's prepared to move someone in the way sooner than later.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Monte has made three first round picks and traded out of a fourth draft. I think the book on Monte is still wide open but he is a pretty shrewd evaluator of talent. If nothing else not being able to trade the pick until we are on the clock and can make the selection for someone else gives me hope for a good outcome no matter which way he plays.

 

[Jdbraver137]

Monte has made three first round picks and traded out of a fourth draft. I think the book on Monte is still wide open but he is a pretty shrewd evaluator of talent. If nothing else not being able to trade the pick until we are on the clock and can make the selection for someone else gives me hope for a good outcome no matter which way he plays.

I just think you take holland if he is there and then go either da Silva or my dark horse edey.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I just think you take holland if he is there and then go either da Silva or my dark horse edey.

If we want Edey I think he is at 22 if we give PHX the two seconds they apparently covet.

Although I like Dunn at 22 now that Monk is back.

Holland if he is there at 13 we should take or maybe some team actually makes a real offer for Holland + Barnes or Huerter.

Clear need is at the 4 spot right now. Or anyone that can offer inside defense, rim protection and physical play without being a liability on the offensive side.

 

[hrdboild]

It's probably going to be Ron Holland and Ryan Dunn at the top of my wishlist by draft night...

I would also appreciate seeing Monte take either a shot-creating guard (Dillingham, Collier, Carter, Walter, Carrington) because I think those types of players almost always build value early in their careers or a defensive big (Missi, Holmes, Clingan) because those guys would add a much needed interior presence to our defense on day one. But the true swing-for-the-fences play here is to find the one player who would elevate our overall team defense the most and that's got to be either Holland or Dunn. Then you just grit your teeth and trust your coaching staff to develop them on offense.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

If we want Edey I think he is at 22 if we give PHX the two seconds they apparently covet.

This violates my "don't get cute" draft rule. If he's the guy you want, and he's available, you take him.

 

[Turgenev]

Very Sactown Dog of me but now that Monk is coming back I'm going to feel pretty agitated if we draft a guard.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This violates my "don't get cute" draft rule. If he's the guy you want, and he's available, you take him.

That’s fine but if we take Edey at 13 we should still trade for 22. I also really hope Edey is not the target at 13.

So what I’m saying is if the Phoenix situation is real let’s get in on it.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

That’s fine but if we take Edey at 13 we should still trade for 22. I also really hope Edey is not the target at 13.

So what I’m saying is if the Phoenix situation is real let’s get in on it.

I'm all for angling at another pick, but the way I read this, PHX is looking to move down, not out of the first round. I don't imagine #45 and a future second (or two) would get it done. Seems a bit optimistic.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1804179952239284374

 

[Makaveli]

That’s fine but if we take Edey at 13 we should still trade for 22. I also really hope Edey is not the target at 13.

So what I’m saying is if the Phoenix situation is real let’s get in on it.

Makes me nervous with us really needing to win now. 2 garunteed roster spots for rookies is taking up some room. I’d rather trade the 13 coupled with a player and then maybe trade 2nd rounders for 22. But I don t want 2 picks. Not in This draft

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm all for angling at another pick, but the way I read this, PHX is looking to move down, not out of the first round. I don't imagine #45 and a future second (or two) would get it done. Seems a bit optimistic.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1804179952239284374

Oh I thought they wanted two seconds to avoid having contract guarantees being so far in cap hell.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Makes me nervous with us really needing to win now. 2 garunteed roster spots for rookies is taking up some room. I’d rather trade the 13 coupled with a player and then maybe trade 2nd rounders for 22. But I don t want 2 picks. Not in This draft

If we have to make a win now trade it is likely to require us to move three or four contracts so we’ll need cheap roster players.

I’m not convinced pick 22 this year is worth less than the average 22 it’s just no clear and obvious stars up top have folks undervaluing the class.