“RUN IT BACK!” / Monte needs to fix this.
- Thread starter SLAB
- Start date
This team is at its ceiling. Only fix options are trading for a third star at the cost of Murray and our remaining depth, or a compete tear down of probably everyone aside from Murray. This team has too many flaws. Minor improvements and/or possibly bringing in another quality starter are not going to raise the ceiling as much as we need it to.
List of potentially realistic star forward trade targets:
• Paul George - Heavily rumored to be leaving, although he’s been linked with Philly.
• Brandon Ingram - Rumors of Pelicans splitting apart the BI/Zion duo this summer.
• Mikal Bridges - Nets may move off of him to get some draft capital back to get their rebuild going. Would come at a big price though, he’d be coveted by a lot of teams.
• Lauri Markannen - If Utah wants to fully buy in on the tank and cash in on his value, they nay do it this summer. Not sure it’s likely though.
• Julius Randle - If NYK makes a trade for a big star, Randle may be moved to make room. Would probably be the worst fit for us of all the options.
I think Ingram is the most realistic of the options, and I believe he’s a FA in 2025 so may not be as steep of a price. I’d package the 2024/2028/2030 picks plus a swap or two if they want, and fill the salary necessary in. It’d be a risk, but the Kings are at a point where they will need to take some type of risk to solidify themselves as a regular Playoff team.
• Paul George - Heavily rumored to be leaving, although he’s been linked with Philly.
• Brandon Ingram - Rumors of Pelicans splitting apart the BI/Zion duo this summer.
• Mikal Bridges - Nets may move off of him to get some draft capital back to get their rebuild going. Would come at a big price though, he’d be coveted by a lot of teams.
• Lauri Markannen - If Utah wants to fully buy in on the tank and cash in on his value, they nay do it this summer. Not sure it’s likely though.
• Julius Randle - If NYK makes a trade for a big star, Randle may be moved to make room. Would probably be the worst fit for us of all the options.
I think Ingram is the most realistic of the options, and I believe he’s a FA in 2025 so may not be as steep of a price. I’d package the 2024/2028/2030 picks plus a swap or two if they want, and fill the salary necessary in. It’d be a risk, but the Kings are at a point where they will need to take some type of risk to solidify themselves as a regular Playoff team.
Ingram is too fragile and injury prone. Also, while his career stats, height, length, and athleticism are impressive and an asset the KINGS could really use, I think he’s a guy that disappears when it matters most.
Not weighing salary demands, trade compensation, etc, the player that makes the most sense for the KINGS from your list is Bridges. He’s the right age and seemingly best fit on both ends of the floor. To me, the next guy after that would be Paul George. A saavy vet that also brings length and athleticism and plays both sides of the floor. Sure he’s aged, but the guy presents another option that can take over games and keep you in it. And he can handle the ball as well. He’s a leader.
Next guy after that would be Markkanen. He doesn’t fill the role of two-way player as Bridges and George do, but he sure can shoot it and is tall and long.
Not weighing salary demands, trade compensation, etc, the player that makes the most sense for the KINGS from your list is Bridges. He’s the right age and seemingly best fit on both ends of the floor. To me, the next guy after that would be Paul George. A saavy vet that also brings length and athleticism and plays both sides of the floor. Sure he’s aged, but the guy presents another option that can take over games and keep you in it. And he can handle the ball as well. He’s a leader.
Next guy after that would be Markkanen. He doesn’t fill the role of two-way player as Bridges and George do, but he sure can shoot it and is tall and long.
The Barnes deal was one of the worst in recent memory and I still don't understand it. Bringing Sasha to the team and then not using him is another "WTF?" move. Moves need to be made to get some real talent and nobody is off the block IMHO. Ellis pickup is a good move but we need a legit third threat and Keegan isn't consistent enough yet to be that. He's only just finished his second season and may become that, but this team needs some depth.
I 100% agree that Fox needs to be on the table. As much as I love the guy he's not a #1 option and this team is built around the fact that we think he is. Not confident that Monk starting at PG is the answer either, but I think we need to explore all avenues of what we can possibly build in a Fox trade.
I don't see how McNair is going to catch up to teams like NO, OKC, Houston and others who have much more trade/draft capital than the Kings and are improving at a faster pace than the Kings. Essentially, it seems he's left to do more with less (than other teams), which is a daunting and risky proposition. How many times has a GM been able to parley low 1st round picks and 2nd rounders into a powerhouse? Denver pulled the Joker out of their hat, but wow, that's a very low probability event. So, yes I'm confident the Kings will improve, but no, I'm not confident they will improve at a faster rate than the competition. Monte may have to go in a radical direction. Otherwise the Kings could be like a Portland who had a great player in Lillard (and also CJ), but accomplished nothing over many, many years.
Do you think that would get you past OKC, Houston and NO next year? Retaining Monk is status quo. So the only variable is "turning Heurter and Barnes into something else." Do you think the "something else" can be major enough to beat OKC, Houston and NO next year? Keep in mind that those aforementioned teams are also looking to get better next year. They won't be this year's teams. They will most likely be improved versions of this year's teams, and with trade/draft capital exceeding the Kings, they could be much better.
Do you think that would get you past OKC, Houston and NO next year? Retaining Monk is status quo. So the only variable is "turning Heurter and Barnes into something else." Do you think the "something else" can be major enough to beat OKC, Houston and NO next year? Keep in mind that those aforementioned teams are also looking to get better next year. They won't be this year's teams. They will most likely be improved versions of this year's teams, and with trade/draft capital exceeding the Kings, they could be much better.
Realistically who will be better than us next year.
Very Likely
Minnesota: Minnesota loses no one Gobert and Conley getting old …. 27th pick
Denver: Everyone back plus 28
Dallas: Everyone back Kyrie and Hardaway old Lively and Hardy will get better plus Luka
OKC: 1st seed youngest team ever plus 12
Possibly better and rising
New Orleans: Val free agent, CJ old: core Zion, Ingram, Murphy, Jones plus 16 - 20
Memphis - Morant, JJJ, GG Jackson, Bane, Smart as a core plus 7
Houston: Van Vleet, Brooks, Adams. Getting old but core of: Sengun, Green, Thompson, Eason Whitmore plus 9.
Possibly better hanging on:
Pheonix- Old how long hold on
Lakers - Old how long hold on
Clippers- can they keep team
Probably worse:
San Antonio: Wemby Vassell + top 4
Golden State: old no pick
Portland: Scoot and Shaedon. Should have tanked harder.
Utah: Kessler +8, +29
Seems like we are pretty destined to be in the play-in no man’s land which pretty much aligns with Monte’s keep all options open strategy.
Very Likely
Minnesota: Minnesota loses no one Gobert and Conley getting old …. 27th pick
Denver: Everyone back plus 28
Dallas: Everyone back Kyrie and Hardaway old Lively and Hardy will get better plus Luka
OKC: 1st seed youngest team ever plus 12
Possibly better and rising
New Orleans: Val free agent, CJ old: core Zion, Ingram, Murphy, Jones plus 16 - 20
Memphis - Morant, JJJ, GG Jackson, Bane, Smart as a core plus 7
Houston: Van Vleet, Brooks, Adams. Getting old but core of: Sengun, Green, Thompson, Eason Whitmore plus 9.
Possibly better hanging on:
Pheonix- Old how long hold on
Lakers - Old how long hold on
Clippers- can they keep team
Probably worse:
San Antonio: Wemby Vassell + top 4
Golden State: old no pick
Portland: Scoot and Shaedon. Should have tanked harder.
Utah: Kessler +8, +29
Seems like we are pretty destined to be in the play-in no man’s land which pretty much aligns with Monte’s keep all options open strategy.
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while I tend to agree let me give you two stats that might indicate if you squint real hard and say a prayer…..
catch and shoot 3%
Keon Ellis - 42.4 on 2.1 attempts versus Kevin Huerter - 34.9 on 4.1 attempts
Kessler Edwards - 40.4 on .9 attempts versus Harrison Barnes 38.2 on 4.0 attempts.
Kessler is a restricted free agent the Kings would like to keep cheap so maybe that’s why they didn’t play him as much.
but if he and Keon can up their attempts and keep their averages, add a forward with our pick Salaun? …. We might have a higher ceiling than we thought
catch and shoot 3%
Keon Ellis - 42.4 on 2.1 attempts versus Kevin Huerter - 34.9 on 4.1 attempts
Kessler Edwards - 40.4 on .9 attempts versus Harrison Barnes 38.2 on 4.0 attempts.
Kessler is a restricted free agent the Kings would like to keep cheap so maybe that’s why they didn’t play him as much.
but if he and Keon can up their attempts and keep their averages, add a forward with our pick Salaun? …. We might have a higher ceiling than we thought
Boy, you have some terrible takes, I must say.
But I'll stay w/this latest: if GS remotely shares your view of the three Kings' players you specifically said you'd most like to see gone, why in the world would they give up Kuminga - a promising 21 y.o. guy with elite physical attributes (who's already showing a lot) at a premium position - for them? Honestly, I dunno that they'd trade Kuminga straight up for Keegan. If I were a State fan, I dunno that I'd want them to.
Are you counting on them losing their collective organizational mind?
But I'll stay w/this latest: if GS remotely shares your view of the three Kings' players you specifically said you'd most like to see gone, why in the world would they give up Kuminga - a promising 21 y.o. guy with elite physical attributes (who's already showing a lot) at a premium position - for them? Honestly, I dunno that they'd trade Kuminga straight up for Keegan. If I were a State fan, I dunno that I'd want them to.
Are you counting on them losing their collective organizational mind?
Like keeping Kessler Edwards is going to make a difference?
Obviously, injuries to Monk and Heurter hurt. And since the Kings already owe a #1 pick to Atlanta, for Heurter-that the Kings seem to want to get rid of-we have more problems getting better. And to re-sign Monk, it will take a bundle.
Biggest mistake was that the Kings had 40 mil available to sign a big free agent, last off-season. That was the time to make a big splash. Instead, they ran it back by extended Domas and Barnes. This was the one opportunity to add a player, that could really make a difference. I actually think that Vivek made this decision, rather than Monte.
Accordingly, this is the Kings level for the foreseeable future. One piece of good news is, I think the Warriors are in worse shape.
Obviously, injuries to Monk and Heurter hurt. And since the Kings already owe a #1 pick to Atlanta, for Heurter-that the Kings seem to want to get rid of-we have more problems getting better. And to re-sign Monk, it will take a bundle.
Biggest mistake was that the Kings had 40 mil available to sign a big free agent, last off-season. That was the time to make a big splash. Instead, they ran it back by extended Domas and Barnes. This was the one opportunity to add a player, that could really make a difference. I actually think that Vivek made this decision, rather than Monte.
Accordingly, this is the Kings level for the foreseeable future. One piece of good news is, I think the Warriors are in worse shape.
The only thing with Monk is how can the Kings handle more than 3 combo G's with a league with this much size on the perimeter? If Brown goes back to guard ball next season I can't see that developing into a contender. If anything 9th seed level might be a hope and wish. Teams have figured out the Kings to an extent. It happens. Now it's time for a step up in talent and need.
It's all about approach. If there isn't some incredible change at the top with those teams it's a safer bet to assume the teams near, or at the top probably won't be going anywhere. Especially if you are actually trying to win a ring. This isn't even accounting for the reality of having to get through a team like Boston or the Bucks if you want a championship. A lot of prognosticators looked at the West this last summer and pretty much nailed the Kings with where they ended up. If Monte doesn't approach this summer as if his team isn't topped out, even if it isn't, he's going at this entirely wrong. Again, this isn't a truly "young" team. They are basically the same age as the Kings Webber years team that made the WCF. When Monte chose Fox he chose a much smaller window from which to work since Fox was at the taking up 40% of your cap phase. Now Monte's cap space potential is gone. He's got to be aggressive or mediocrity could be his fate.
If we're being honest with outselves Ainge is probably one of the better GMs out there, so I don't get the critism either. Traded for Garnett and Ray Allen to win a championship. Made the bold move to draft Tatum over Fultz when Fultz was the consensus #1 pick. Drafted Jaylen Brown. Robbed the nets by trading away Garnett and Pierce while their value were still somewhat high. Jury is still out on him with his stint with the Jazz, but he did trade for Markennen with a lot of cap space and draft assets to work with still.
Actually, for the near term, they might not be since both teams are kind of at the same level of success ATM. They obviously are more aged at their talent core though so if they want to go for it, it has to be now. No potential partial reset or re-tooling like the Kings might be able to do in a couple of years. The Warriors will have to cut some of that dynasty off but they are probably better positioned to make trades than the Kings unfortunately since this draft doesn't appear to have a ton of value. Hopefully teams start getting interested with this crop of players when the draft rolls around and workouts really blow teams out of the water. The Warriors have Kuminga, Wiggins, and some wiggle room to at least use their MLE by letting go of players like Klay, CP3, and Looney. If the Kings don't make moves it could mean going into the first apron just to keep this roster together.