Keegan “KEEGAN MURRAY” Murray
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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IMO, if Keegan doesn't make the leap and bring both defense and offense most every night, the Kings are going to get bounced in the 1st round again, if they even make it past the play-in.
For the Kings to have any chance of advancing past the 1st round this year, we need Keegan to put it ALL together, both solid defense and offense every night. This team is not getting out of the 1st round with just Fox and Sabonis carrying them, they need that 3rd wheel.
For the Kings to have any chance of advancing past the 1st round this year, we need Keegan to put it ALL together, both solid defense and offense every night. This team is not getting out of the 1st round with just Fox and Sabonis carrying them, they need that 3rd wheel.
He's been in and out of foul trouble a lot and that's impacted his ability to stay on the floor and get shots up. Coach Brown also mentioned that he tweaked his ankle in the game tonight. If he were solely focusing on offense and having these kinds of no shows in year 2 I would be worried. But what he's done this season is mature his game from being a spot-up shooter to a defensive stopper and more balanced three level scorer.
Keegan has had a forgettable couple of weeks in February but in January he averaged 17.7 pts, 5.8 rebs, 1.6 asts, 1 blk, 1.1 stls and 51/39/70 shooting splits while also taking on the toughest defensive matchup every night and looking like an All NBA defender in the process. Mediocre free throw shooting aside, that's exactly the guy we want him to be this year. He's still ahead of schedule in terms of what is expected from a top 5 pick. Consistency is something players grow into.
Keegan has had a forgettable couple of weeks in February but in January he averaged 17.7 pts, 5.8 rebs, 1.6 asts, 1 blk, 1.1 stls and 51/39/70 shooting splits while also taking on the toughest defensive matchup every night and looking like an All NBA defender in the process. Mediocre free throw shooting aside, that's exactly the guy we want him to be this year. He's still ahead of schedule in terms of what is expected from a top 5 pick. Consistency is something players grow into.
Wasn’t sure what mattered more to you, winning basketball or 1 players scoring points.
Trying to understand why you are hyper-focused on how many points Keegan scores when there is a lot more to basketball, including an entire other side of the game called defense.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t recall you coming around when Keegan scores a lot in a game. He had an entire stretch where he was averaging like 20. Yet you only come to bump when he has a stretch of “bad game” in terms of points…
In less than 2 years he broke the rookie 3-point record and has become an elite defender in his second year on a team that badly needs defense.
We didnt need more scoring against PHX, we needed stops. We didn’t need more scoring last night to win either.
I don’t expect everyone to be as high on Keegan as me and respect that but I am surprised when people don’t see what he brings to this team. He plays winning basketball.
Trying to understand why you are hyper-focused on how many points Keegan scores when there is a lot more to basketball, including an entire other side of the game called defense.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t recall you coming around when Keegan scores a lot in a game. He had an entire stretch where he was averaging like 20. Yet you only come to bump when he has a stretch of “bad game” in terms of points…
In less than 2 years he broke the rookie 3-point record and has become an elite defender in his second year on a team that badly needs defense.
We didnt need more scoring against PHX, we needed stops. We didn’t need more scoring last night to win either.
I don’t expect everyone to be as high on Keegan as me and respect that but I am surprised when people don’t see what he brings to this team. He plays winning basketball.
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This is the delicious cup of copium that I needed. I hope he just needs a break to rejuvenate for the stretch run. The part about his game that has worried me is that he looks very tentative out there, especially around the 3 point line when he has the ball. And, in general, these last couple of games he looks like he doesn't want the ball to find him as he makes his sauntering cuts to the other side of the floor and as he comes off screens, etc. BUT, everything you wrote here is on the money, so I hope to see him return to form after the break.
the high bbiq is kicking in saying “hey, I can’t hit the broad side of a barn right now, maybe I shouldn’t jack threes that end in empty possessions”. He can’t consistently hit 3s this year which is a problem but he is doing what good players do and looking for other ways to help the team win like defense. He has done a better job of getting inside the arch during these stretches too. I love that slumpy shoulders result in a benching from Brown. Confidence, consistent aggression and decisiveness is the key to the next step in his development. That can be defensively, in shot taking, cutting, passing, all of it.
Apologies if I came in hot. Mainly just trying to understand why you feel strongly about his scoring even in games we are winning or don’t need more scoring.
The insulation was that Keegan isn’t playing like the 4th pick but outside of this stretch of low scoring games, he has played well and played winning basketball and wanted to remind you he has played elite defense all season. IMO there is just way more to the game than points scored by an individual player when we have other guys scoring. There is only 1 ball. Let the hot guys shoot and contribute in other ways
Edit: Not trying to be hyper focused on your opinion. I just didn’t see any others expressing that opinion in here so I wanted to ask. It’s all good though. Again, apologies if I came on strong with my response.
The insulation was that Keegan isn’t playing like the 4th pick but outside of this stretch of low scoring games, he has played well and played winning basketball and wanted to remind you he has played elite defense all season. IMO there is just way more to the game than points scored by an individual player when we have other guys scoring. There is only 1 ball. Let the hot guys shoot and contribute in other ways
Edit: Not trying to be hyper focused on your opinion. I just didn’t see any others expressing that opinion in here so I wanted to ask. It’s all good though. Again, apologies if I came on strong with my response.
Inconsistency is a problem for murray, but what we have seen in his 2nd year has been enccouraging. Things that make you have hope in the consistency department is that..
He drives to the rim and gets into the midrange more instead of just settling for the 3 pointers. It's hard to be consistent when you are only taking 3's.
The next step is getting to the line more. If he could double his free throw attempts from 1.7 to 3.4 the next season it will go a long way, but to be able to do that easier he'll have to improve his handles and have more in his bag of tricks when getting to the rim and that's the part I'm still kind of iffy about. (I remember fox and monk teasing murray about not having the bag well maybe he can prove them wrong lol). I don't think he'll ever be that guy to beat you off the dribble with advance fancy moves, but if he's at least average in that category paired with his shooting it will go a long way.
If Murray doesn't improve his handles, I could still see him being very good in the midrange like with his floaters or midrange jumpers (we have seen him score this way a lot more this season compared to last season). He has been good in this area, but I could also see him being better and improving here too.
On a side note I would like to see Brown give keegan a shot on post ups especially when he has the size advantage over some of his defenders. That's the one part of his game that flourished in college, but we have yet to see much of because he hasn't had the opportunity to do so in this offense.
He drives to the rim and gets into the midrange more instead of just settling for the 3 pointers. It's hard to be consistent when you are only taking 3's.
The next step is getting to the line more. If he could double his free throw attempts from 1.7 to 3.4 the next season it will go a long way, but to be able to do that easier he'll have to improve his handles and have more in his bag of tricks when getting to the rim and that's the part I'm still kind of iffy about. (I remember fox and monk teasing murray about not having the bag well maybe he can prove them wrong lol). I don't think he'll ever be that guy to beat you off the dribble with advance fancy moves, but if he's at least average in that category paired with his shooting it will go a long way.
If Murray doesn't improve his handles, I could still see him being very good in the midrange like with his floaters or midrange jumpers (we have seen him score this way a lot more this season compared to last season). He has been good in this area, but I could also see him being better and improving here too.
On a side note I would like to see Brown give keegan a shot on post ups especially when he has the size advantage over some of his defenders. That's the one part of his game that flourished in college, but we have yet to see much of because he hasn't had the opportunity to do so in this offense.
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I've been thinking about Keegan's thinking. Why all of a sudden did he take a left turn and seemingly go into a long think on the floor before making decisions to shoot or not shoot, pass or shoot, etc.? His indecision is hurting him on the floor. I'm wondering if he's getting too much coaching? It can happen that a young player trying to incorporate everything coaches are asking of him becomes semi-paralyzed on the floor, losing his fluidity and aggression. Or maybe Keegan's strengths are double edged for a 2nd year player. Maybe the fact that he can shoot 3s, shoot floaters, shoot one-legged step backs, shoot without dribbling off screens, shoot post-ups, and perform slam dunks is offering a wealth of choices that is frying his young brain right now. It's all about: When do I do what when? And with so many options to choose from, it's got to be difficult for a young man to make the quick decision in an ever-changing fast paced game. Should the Kings' coaching staff simplify the game for him?
My personal taste would be to make sure that virtually every time Keegan is guarded by someone 6'5" or less his teammates make a consistent effort to give him the ball in the post and let him abuse the opposition. I'm a little mystified why this hasn't happened more often. I know that Fox made it a rule in his off-season workouts that Keegan couldn't abuse him in the post, but this isn't the off-season. It's a basic principle of the game that one should first play to one's strengths, then go to lesser options after the strength is taken away. Being a slashing Paul George-like ball handling forward is not currently Keegan's strength. Focus on open 3 pointers, moving, catching and shooting off screens, and abusing smaller players in the post. Simple. He can incorporate all those other elements in his game as he becomes extremely comfortable in just those three offensive moves.
My personal taste would be to make sure that virtually every time Keegan is guarded by someone 6'5" or less his teammates make a consistent effort to give him the ball in the post and let him abuse the opposition. I'm a little mystified why this hasn't happened more often. I know that Fox made it a rule in his off-season workouts that Keegan couldn't abuse him in the post, but this isn't the off-season. It's a basic principle of the game that one should first play to one's strengths, then go to lesser options after the strength is taken away. Being a slashing Paul George-like ball handling forward is not currently Keegan's strength. Focus on open 3 pointers, moving, catching and shooting off screens, and abusing smaller players in the post. Simple. He can incorporate all those other elements in his game as he becomes extremely comfortable in just those three offensive moves.
I don't think he's getting too much coaching. And I don't think there needs to be too much hemming and hawing over Keegan Murray during his sophomore run. In his rookie season, he performed a very specific function within the Kings read-and-react offense. Whatever tricks existed in his bag, Keegan was an off-ball threat that primarily curled around screens and launched three's. He was asked to perform a significant role as a full-time starter, but the coaching staff kept that role extremely well-defined so as not to overwhelm Murray during his rookie season.
Now Keegan is being asked to do more. Considerably more. And the game is still moving too fast for him. That's not abnormal for a second-year player who isn't a primary ballhandler or natural playmaker. When the game slows down for him, I would expect greater decisiveness when the ball is in his hands. But it takes time. There will be growing pains. The team is obviously investing now in the expansion of Keegan's game so that he can step into that "third star" role if he wants it badly enough. I hope he does want it badly enough, because he could be exactly the kind of "third star" you'd want next to Domas and Fox.
Ultimately, I think the Kings' coaching staff and front office are perfectly content to take a "step back" this season if it means that they'll be better equipped to compete moving forward. I think they feel that way about Keegan, as well. They don't seem overly-concerned that his offense has not been as impactful this season. But given the difficulties and realities of talent acquisition for a small market franchise with the Kings' particular payroll considerations, he really is the single most important part of the puzzle of how to take the next step toward perennial playoff contender and conference finals threat.
The coaches and the FO clearly recognize what Keegan Murray means for this team's ceiling, so better to get the young man reaching deeper into his bag now and seeing what he can accomplish, even if it's only in flashes. Every floater, every step-back jumper, and every aggressive move to the basket is contributing to his growth. We've all witnessed the leaps he's made on the defensive end. He's already a legitimate impact player on that side of the ball. If he's got honest-to-goodness two-way potential, you've gotta subject him to the rigors of an NBA grind to see if he can expend energy on both sides of the ball consistently. If he's got Paul George-like or even Kawhi Leonard-like potential, you've gotta push him and see how he responds to the highs and lows, to see if he can overcome his passivity.
Keegan's in a tough stretch right now, but I have all the confidence in this young man, and I personally love that the organization isn't treating him with kid gloves.
Now Keegan is being asked to do more. Considerably more. And the game is still moving too fast for him. That's not abnormal for a second-year player who isn't a primary ballhandler or natural playmaker. When the game slows down for him, I would expect greater decisiveness when the ball is in his hands. But it takes time. There will be growing pains. The team is obviously investing now in the expansion of Keegan's game so that he can step into that "third star" role if he wants it badly enough. I hope he does want it badly enough, because he could be exactly the kind of "third star" you'd want next to Domas and Fox.
Ultimately, I think the Kings' coaching staff and front office are perfectly content to take a "step back" this season if it means that they'll be better equipped to compete moving forward. I think they feel that way about Keegan, as well. They don't seem overly-concerned that his offense has not been as impactful this season. But given the difficulties and realities of talent acquisition for a small market franchise with the Kings' particular payroll considerations, he really is the single most important part of the puzzle of how to take the next step toward perennial playoff contender and conference finals threat.
The coaches and the FO clearly recognize what Keegan Murray means for this team's ceiling, so better to get the young man reaching deeper into his bag now and seeing what he can accomplish, even if it's only in flashes. Every floater, every step-back jumper, and every aggressive move to the basket is contributing to his growth. We've all witnessed the leaps he's made on the defensive end. He's already a legitimate impact player on that side of the ball. If he's got honest-to-goodness two-way potential, you've gotta subject him to the rigors of an NBA grind to see if he can expend energy on both sides of the ball consistently. If he's got Paul George-like or even Kawhi Leonard-like potential, you've gotta push him and see how he responds to the highs and lows, to see if he can overcome his passivity.
Keegan's in a tough stretch right now, but I have all the confidence in this young man, and I personally love that the organization isn't treating him with kid gloves.
