Kings trade rumor SZN 2023-2024 edition!
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Let’s see.
1) Averages 22-24ppg. You going to sag off on a top 30 scorer?
2) Averages 13 attempts for 2pt fgs at a 58% clip. You would have to defend that, right? Oh, but he’s a “bad shooter”
3) One of the best post up games that actually draws double teams and he does a good job finding the open man out of them
again you think a 2x all star would hurt the spacing on the floor especially with those attributes and playmaking ability? You think Deaaron going up to him at the all star game last year was cuz he thought he would be a bad fit for the team?!
1) Averages 22-24ppg. You going to sag off on a top 30 scorer?
2) Averages 13 attempts for 2pt fgs at a 58% clip. You would have to defend that, right? Oh, but he’s a “bad shooter”
3) One of the best post up games that actually draws double teams and he does a good job finding the open man out of them
again you think a 2x all star would hurt the spacing on the floor especially with those attributes and playmaking ability? You think Deaaron going up to him at the all star game last year was cuz he thought he would be a bad fit for the team?!
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Yes, Giannis affects the spacing of his team, because he's not a good shooter. Every team considers it a massive win anytime he takes anything 15+ feet out because of how utterly devastating he is when he gets to the rim.
And the Bucks planned their roster around it. Brook/Dame/Middleton/Beasley, etc. Just an army of great shooting to make sure they punish teams when the double comes on a Giannis drive.
I do think Siakam would be a great fit here though, especially with some real fun small-ball 5 stuff we could do with him. He's such a great passer and we can work with that on this squad, better than pretty much anyone else in the NBA. But he would absolutely affect our spacing; he's not a good shooter or a consistent shooter. But with Fox's emergence and Keegan quickly returning to form, you probably could get away with him and Domas not being good shooters, as long as the 5th guy is 38%+ as well.
And the Bucks planned their roster around it. Brook/Dame/Middleton/Beasley, etc. Just an army of great shooting to make sure they punish teams when the double comes on a Giannis drive.
I do think Siakam would be a great fit here though, especially with some real fun small-ball 5 stuff we could do with him. He's such a great passer and we can work with that on this squad, better than pretty much anyone else in the NBA. But he would absolutely affect our spacing; he's not a good shooter or a consistent shooter. But with Fox's emergence and Keegan quickly returning to form, you probably could get away with him and Domas not being good shooters, as long as the 5th guy is 38%+ as well.
When that scorer shoots .261 3P% from 3? Of course. Teams sag off Sabonis for the same reason. Teams sag off Zion for the same reason. Teams sag off Westbrook for the same reason. Teams sag off Giannis for the same reason.
And to your earlier point about Giannis, that’s sort of my point. They have Lillard, Beasley, Middleton, & Lopez around Giannis. They put a lot of shooting around him, stretch the floor, and let him go to work and punish defenses that rotate when he beats his man.
Sabonis is not much of a threat from outside. He prefers to not shoot 3s, and when he does, his windup takes a long time (allowing teams to sag off of him more and still recover). We get by with it because we at least have good shooters at SG, SF, and PF to space it for Fox. If we decrease that to just SG and SF, you make it easier to defend and help onto Fox knowing that there are only a couple great shooters you need to rotate to.
This doesn’t mean I don’t think Siakam is a good player. He is. But he (like Fox) need shooting around him to bolster his strengths.
And to your earlier point about Giannis, that’s sort of my point. They have Lillard, Beasley, Middleton, & Lopez around Giannis. They put a lot of shooting around him, stretch the floor, and let him go to work and punish defenses that rotate when he beats his man.
Sabonis is not much of a threat from outside. He prefers to not shoot 3s, and when he does, his windup takes a long time (allowing teams to sag off of him more and still recover). We get by with it because we at least have good shooters at SG, SF, and PF to space it for Fox. If we decrease that to just SG and SF, you make it easier to defend and help onto Fox knowing that there are only a couple great shooters you need to rotate to.
This doesn’t mean I don’t think Siakam is a good player. He is. But he (like Fox) need shooting around him to bolster his strengths.
Depends if we believe Fox's new shooting is real or not. If all of a sudden he's "the spacing" too; that changes our potential player pool. Like:
Fox
Monk
Keegan
Pascal
Domas
That's a devastating offensive team with incredible amounts of offensive creation. If they really bought in, which I think Pascal would because of how unselfish a player he is, I'd buy this as a title contender. 3 38%+ 3pt shooters, elite passing at 4 positions, elite ball-handling at 4 positions, 2 elite forward defenders, would absolutely wreck in transition.
I agree with the first part but not the second part.
I’ve said this in a few posts earlier in the thread, but Fox can’t space the floor for himself. And while his new found shooting is awesome for the team (it helps space the floor for others, he can punish defenses when they go under on screens, etc.) but we shouldn’t lose sight that Fox is an elite player in this league because he can break down a defense and get to the paint/rim. If he couldn’t do that at the level he does, he’d be more of a VanVleet type player.
Putting two lackluster shooters next to Fox is a risky proposition when your ultimate goal is trying to build a winner around him. Then you factor in the risk of him leaving in FA for nothing (with little assets left to improve the team) or if he does resign and the fit doesn’t work out, you’re basically a capped out team that will be trading from a point of weakness.
I’ve said this in a few posts earlier in the thread, but Fox can’t space the floor for himself. And while his new found shooting is awesome for the team (it helps space the floor for others, he can punish defenses when they go under on screens, etc.) but we shouldn’t lose sight that Fox is an elite player in this league because he can break down a defense and get to the paint/rim. If he couldn’t do that at the level he does, he’d be more of a VanVleet type player.
Putting two lackluster shooters next to Fox is a risky proposition when your ultimate goal is trying to build a winner around him. Then you factor in the risk of him leaving in FA for nothing (with little assets left to improve the team) or if he does resign and the fit doesn’t work out, you’re basically a capped out team that will be trading from a point of weakness.
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Giannis creates space for the Bucks cuz he draws so much attention. Brook shaped his game knowing he would get a ton of wide open 3s. Lebron is a mediocre 3pt shooter too, you think he’s the one hurting spacing? If you have an elite first step and at least a minor threat of making a 3, the defense has to respect that
Highlights from just 1 game. But he posts up Embiid. He gets doubled by Embiid. Gets tight D from 3, pulls up from the elbow for a nice mid range shot. 31pts against one of the best defenses. Watching his highlights, he actually would allow us to play even faster with how good he is at the fast break
He can't, but if you were to add Siakam to the mix, Fox himself could be the recipient of drive and kick opportunities now that he's become a serious threat from deep practically overnight. As elite as Fox is at getting to the rim, he also gets visibly tired out there constantly absorbing so much contact on his way to the basket. Adding the three to his game has given him more energy to work with. It's made him more lethal, and adding another slasher/creator to further relieve some of the scoring burden wouldn't be the worst problem to have, especially if Siakam can raise the Kings' defensive floor a bit, as well. To be clear, I'm not sure I'm on board with trading for him, but I can certainly envision how it might work. Fox/Monk/Murray/Siakam/Sabonis is a unit with a bunch of unselfish playmakers who can also score from all over the court.
I just don’t know what to tell you man. Your whole premise is Siakam would make it more difficult for Fox to get his points only and only because he’s a career 32% 3pt shooter. I and others have specified why that’s not an issue and how Siakam would actually add another dimensions to our offense to more than offset you perceive to be a lack of spacing. All I know is I would hate to see Siakam land with the Lakers or Warriors where he’s the 2nd or 3rd option
I look at the Hawks game as a perfect example. Monk was the primary initiator and Fox was getting easy looks created for him in the 4th quarter. He's not Steph, obviously, but a big part of what makes Steph great is how genius he is off-ball too and getting easy shots that way. Now that Fox is a shooter, I hope we can find ways to continue to get him easy looks and easy opportunites like we were able to in that 4th quarter of the Hawks game.
Of course. I never denied that Fox couldn’t space the floor for Siakam and Sabonis. The issue is when it comes time to space the floor for Fox (our best player).
Like I mentioned, I think Siakam is a good player. I just don’t like the idea of sacrificing the spacing for our best player when we should be looking to add players around him that elevate him and the team. Now that doesn’t mean I think the team would be better overall with Barnes at PF vs. Siakam at PF, but the goal is to win a title. We need to be thoughtful and meticulous in the big names we bring aboard considering there’s a small margin for error when building a contender. If we’re not getting a synergistic effect due to the lack of fit, that’s not the best way to use our cap and rest assured there will be other teams out there that have the same talent level as us but that talent fits better (giving them the edge).
Like I mentioned, I think Siakam is a good player. I just don’t like the idea of sacrificing the spacing for our best player when we should be looking to add players around him that elevate him and the team. Now that doesn’t mean I think the team would be better overall with Barnes at PF vs. Siakam at PF, but the goal is to win a title. We need to be thoughtful and meticulous in the big names we bring aboard considering there’s a small margin for error when building a contender. If we’re not getting a synergistic effect due to the lack of fit, that’s not the best way to use our cap and rest assured there will be other teams out there that have the same talent level as us but that talent fits better (giving them the edge).
What have you specified exactly? That Siakam is a good scorer and post up player thus meaning that he will be able to space the floor for Fox?
I think many here are acknowledging that it would impact our spacing but those same folks believe that it might not impact it enough to make them shy away from Siakam. You, on the other hand, are making the claim that it would not impact our spacing which I haven’t seen anyone else agree with that take. It’s equivalent to wanting to trot out a Morant-DeRozan-Giannis-Siakam-Sabonis lineup and say “hey! they all score 20+ PPG so the spacing will be just fine!” That’s hogwash.
Like I’ve mentioned in previous posts, I’m not saying that the Kings don’t get better if they swap Barnes for Siakam, but in the grand scheme of building a talented and complementary roster to hopefully one day catapult us into a title contender, I don’t see a Fox-Siakam-Sabonis trio as synergistic enough as I’d like it to be (especially if we’re tying up $40+ mil in cap for each of these guys). Again, there will be other teams that have similar talent levels but they complement each other really well. That’s an advantage we’re missing out on if we lock into a Fox-Siakam-Sabonis core IMO.
I think many here are acknowledging that it would impact our spacing but those same folks believe that it might not impact it enough to make them shy away from Siakam. You, on the other hand, are making the claim that it would not impact our spacing which I haven’t seen anyone else agree with that take. It’s equivalent to wanting to trot out a Morant-DeRozan-Giannis-Siakam-Sabonis lineup and say “hey! they all score 20+ PPG so the spacing will be just fine!” That’s hogwash.
Like I’ve mentioned in previous posts, I’m not saying that the Kings don’t get better if they swap Barnes for Siakam, but in the grand scheme of building a talented and complementary roster to hopefully one day catapult us into a title contender, I don’t see a Fox-Siakam-Sabonis trio as synergistic enough as I’d like it to be (especially if we’re tying up $40+ mil in cap for each of these guys). Again, there will be other teams that have similar talent levels but they complement each other really well. That’s an advantage we’re missing out on if we lock into a Fox-Siakam-Sabonis core IMO.
I’ve said this multiple times but I’ll say it again. Siakam is a very good player and I love his game in a vacuum. Looking at this video, it’s almost all transition buckets. Which is fine and is a strength of his, but I’m not sure how this video is really supporting your claim that swapping out a .385 3P% shooter (on 5.1 3PA per 36) for a .261 3P% shooter (on 3.7 3PA per 36) would not impact the spacing for Fox to operate?
Your logic is so flawed you don’t even realize it. Hey Duncan Robinson, Divencenzo, Nesmith all shoot 3s at a high clip so they help create space for Fox and are better fits for the team! Thank god you’re not on the front office.
A move for Siakam may still not get us to compete consistently with Denver and maybe the Suns once they figure it out. But it’s incremental. Monte is smart enough to know you can’t take big leaps in 1 year unless you’re able to get a generational talent. We’re not in a position to do that, but by getting another all star we’re building up the organization in a way that we can attract more talent later on down the road, while developing our future stars like Keegan
A move for Siakam may still not get us to compete consistently with Denver and maybe the Suns once they figure it out. But it’s incremental. Monte is smart enough to know you can’t take big leaps in 1 year unless you’re able to get a generational talent. We’re not in a position to do that, but by getting another all star we’re building up the organization in a way that we can attract more talent later on down the road, while developing our future stars like Keegan
I’m sure Monte has a big board of nba players ranked in tiers and fit with the current core. He probably knows who he is willing to trade our limited assets for. He won’t rush it as he has time with Kevin and HB signed long term. If he isn’t sure about the trade targets available right now he may wait for the pick to convey to Atlanta and give him easier access to the future assets. Maybe he gives more time for Keegan to develop. It’s fun to think about trade targets but I won’t be shocked if nothing goes down. Was the second half of the last two games outliers or have we figured something out defensively?
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I’m not sure I’m the one who’s logic is flawed here…you seem to be insinuating that good 3PT shooters would not create space for Fox when the ball is in his hands? Come again on that one?
And this relates to my other concern that I mentioned awhile ago that you overlooked until just now.
The Kings do not have a ton of assets to offer up in a trade if they’re keeping Fox, Murray, and Sabonis:
If we’re trading for Siakam, you’re probably having to include both Huerter and Barnes for salary matching purposes and then another 1st or two. That leaves us capped out with a Fox-Monk-Murray-Siakam-Sabonis core with little assets left to tinker around that. In the very real possibility that Siakam walks in the off-season, you’re left with a Fox-Monk-Murray-Sabonis core with many less assets to improve the team.
You talk about making incremental changes but trading for Siakam seems like more of an all-in move considering we’d be capped out and with minimal assets to trade. I’m not sold on the fit to risk that nor am I sold he would resign with us to risk that.
And this relates to my other concern that I mentioned awhile ago that you overlooked until just now.
The Kings do not have a ton of assets to offer up in a trade if they’re keeping Fox, Murray, and Sabonis:
- Their 2024 1st is due to ATL and can technically roll over to 2025 or 2026 depending on where the Kings finish this year. Considering a team can’t trade picks more than 7 years in advance, the Kings would be able to offer up their 2028 1st and 2030 1st (as well as pick swaps on 2027 and 2029).
- Our rookie scale contract players (Mitchell, Duarte, Edwards, Ellis, Jones) don’t hold a ton of value around the league.
- Monk is an expiring contract without full bird rights (and I’d be concerned trading Fox’s best friend)
- Lyles, Vezenkov, Len, & McGee don’t hold a ton of value around the league.
- Huerter is probably worth a mid/late 1st
- Barnes is probably worth a late 1st/early 2nd
If we’re trading for Siakam, you’re probably having to include both Huerter and Barnes for salary matching purposes and then another 1st or two. That leaves us capped out with a Fox-Monk-Murray-Siakam-Sabonis core with little assets left to tinker around that. In the very real possibility that Siakam walks in the off-season, you’re left with a Fox-Monk-Murray-Sabonis core with many less assets to improve the team.
You talk about making incremental changes but trading for Siakam seems like more of an all-in move considering we’d be capped out and with minimal assets to trade. I’m not sold on the fit to risk that nor am I sold he would resign with us to risk that.
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This is a very logical and reasonable take. I wouldn’t be shocked either if we went another trade deadline without making a major move.
Contrary to what some fans may think, we don’t have to act desperate considering the age of our core and the long term contracts we have in place. Take your time and find the right fit.
Contrary to what some fans may think, we don’t have to act desperate considering the age of our core and the long term contracts we have in place. Take your time and find the right fit.
lol, not saying that at all. What I’m saying is you’re overstating this spacing impact. Watch Siakam’s games. Watch the Detroit loss. Watch the Sixers game. Tell me where he was crowding the paint for Barnes and Trent.
Again, your logic would be people like Tatum, Randle, Mikal and a whole host of other dudes who shoot in the low 30s crowd the court for the other scorers on their team. Randle is shooting a career low 3pt % and Brunson is having an even better season than last year. When you have no offensive role other than sitting on the 3pt line and you shoot at a low %, then yes you hurt the rest of your offense. But that’s not Siakam’s game. His usage is at an all time high this year, but I think once he is relegated to the 2nd or 3rd option his shooting will only improve
Again, your logic would be people like Tatum, Randle, Mikal and a whole host of other dudes who shoot in the low 30s crowd the court for the other scorers on their team. Randle is shooting a career low 3pt % and Brunson is having an even better season than last year. When you have no offensive role other than sitting on the 3pt line and you shoot at a low %, then yes you hurt the rest of your offense. But that’s not Siakam’s game. His usage is at an all time high this year, but I think once he is relegated to the 2nd or 3rd option his shooting will only improve
You haven’t once made that claim during this conversation but I’m glad you’re now conceding that point. It’s reasonable to disagree on overstating the impact of spacing. It was asinine to claim that swapping out a good shooter with a poor shooter doesn’t impact spacing as you did.
I don’t even know what you’re trying to say with this point. I’m saying that you need to put shooters around your stars that feast in the paint. Not once did I say that you should put guys who shoot in the low 30s around these types of stars.
I don’t even know what you’re trying to say with this point. I’m saying that you need to put shooters around your stars that feast in the paint. Not once did I say that you should put guys who shoot in the low 30s around these types of stars.
What am I conceding? I always said spacing wasn’t an issue with Siakam, you did. I said it wouldn’t get worse, you did. And your sole reasoning is 3pt %. Have you seen his games? If I were to tell you the last 2 Raptors games against Pistons and Celtics, spacing was not an issue would you still hold to your pov? Same with the 76ers game? I watched every possession against the Celtics and between Brown, Holiday or whoever they had guarding him they did not sag way off
Oh okay so you are in fact still of the thinking that swapping a .385 3P% shooter (on 5.1 3PA per 36) for a .261 3P% shooter (on 3.7 3PA per 36) won’t have any impact on our floor spacing? I thought we were at least able to find common ground on that point (as it seems you’re the only one who disagrees with that statement reviewing the other posts in this thread).
I watched the games. The evidence is in plain sight. What is it that you know more about the NBA that the top defensive coaches don’t? Please watch the Celts, Pistons, and 76ers game and give me some evidence. Actually don’t watch the Celts game, it’ll make you a bit bummed that we didn’t do more with Queta. At any rate, these coaches know Siakam is multi dimensional threat that they can’t leave alone. I’ll leave at that.
I wonder if Toronto is for sure trading Siakam. I theorized earlier that they traded OG early to see how this new core looks before trading Siakam. He is older than the core but they also have Poeltl locked up long term so maybe they don’t care about the age gap. Scott Perry said this week that RJ is a sg not a sf. Maybe Toronto feels the same way?
IQ
RJ
Scottie
Siakam
Poeltl
Seems way way short on shooting but maybe they have a different philosophy.
IQ
RJ
Scottie
Siakam
Poeltl
Seems way way short on shooting but maybe they have a different philosophy.
Let me get this straight…you’re now also claiming that the top defensive coaches in the NBA believe that swapping a .385 3P% shooter (on 5.1 3PA per 36) for a .261 3P% shooter (on 3.7 3PA per 36) won’t have any impact on floor spacing? Is that your official position?
Also, nobody is saying they are going to leave Siakam alone. Siakam is a scoring threat and should be treated as such but you’re kidding yourself if you believe people don’t sag off him a bit more than guys like Barnes, Huerter, Murray, etc. That difference may only be a foot or two or in some cases it could be more, but in a game that is won by inches, that couple feet could be the difference between an uncontested layup for Fox or a contested layup for Fox.
Also, nobody is saying they are going to leave Siakam alone. Siakam is a scoring threat and should be treated as such but you’re kidding yourself if you believe people don’t sag off him a bit more than guys like Barnes, Huerter, Murray, etc. That difference may only be a foot or two or in some cases it could be more, but in a game that is won by inches, that couple feet could be the difference between an uncontested layup for Fox or a contested layup for Fox.