What going on with Davion
- Thread starter Makaveli
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The stats with him on the floor were really bad. Offense was just not flowing.
Ellis keeps the ball moving and doesn't try to do too much. Almost always seems to make a higher % decision.....and I expect some shots to start falling for him, because he is a good shooter. He's also 5" longer in arm length, which gives him an advantage as a more versatile defender, who can match up with longer guards
Ellis keeps the ball moving and doesn't try to do too much. Almost always seems to make a higher % decision.....and I expect some shots to start falling for him, because he is a good shooter. He's also 5" longer in arm length, which gives him an advantage as a more versatile defender, who can match up with longer guards
I think when Klay sunk that shot over him it was over.
I mean, sadly it was probably over before that, but with Keegan emerging on defense and matching up vs. top guys and us having other defenders in wait down in Stockton, it's time to move on while we can still get something for him.
I like him but he's basically entered the Richaun Holmes Zone.
I mean, sadly it was probably over before that, but with Keegan emerging on defense and matching up vs. top guys and us having other defenders in wait down in Stockton, it's time to move on while we can still get something for him.
I like him but he's basically entered the Richaun Holmes Zone.
I'm not sure "sub-zero" is the right term, but he's certainly not a good NBA offensive player and I just don't think he fits our system at all. If you're not Fox/Monk good with the ball in your hands, then you better well be an elite off-ball player that can work off Domas.
And I do think he's an elite defensive player, but his size just does get him in trouble at times, as much as we don't want to admit it. Keon's length and activity in the passing lanes has been so good and like everyone else has pointed out, he stays out of the way on offense. He's not pounding the air out of the ball and holding up the possession like Davion often does.
At this point, I think it's very likely he gets shipped once trade season comes along. Keon's defensive splits have remained very good (2.8 points better defensively with him on the floor; 100 minutes) and Colby Jones has been making a screaming case all year to be a regular rotation minutes guy with his performance in the preseason and his few games in Stockton. Both guys just seem to be better fits offensively while still giving tremendous defensive upside. With far more switchability because they're a lot bigger/longer than Davion.
And this has always been prevalent with Davion, but even if he hit his best-case outcome, what's his minutes upside with Fox on the team? Could both guys ever coexist in the back-court? One major benefit of developing Colby/Keon/Kessler is that say we do hit an upside where someone develops into a 30+ MPG caliber player... that's something you can very easily slide next to Fox/Domas/Keegan. Davion's path to huge minutes has always just been limited because of his size/shooting and how small a Fox/Davion back-court would be.
And I do think he's an elite defensive player, but his size just does get him in trouble at times, as much as we don't want to admit it. Keon's length and activity in the passing lanes has been so good and like everyone else has pointed out, he stays out of the way on offense. He's not pounding the air out of the ball and holding up the possession like Davion often does.
At this point, I think it's very likely he gets shipped once trade season comes along. Keon's defensive splits have remained very good (2.8 points better defensively with him on the floor; 100 minutes) and Colby Jones has been making a screaming case all year to be a regular rotation minutes guy with his performance in the preseason and his few games in Stockton. Both guys just seem to be better fits offensively while still giving tremendous defensive upside. With far more switchability because they're a lot bigger/longer than Davion.
And this has always been prevalent with Davion, but even if he hit his best-case outcome, what's his minutes upside with Fox on the team? Could both guys ever coexist in the back-court? One major benefit of developing Colby/Keon/Kessler is that say we do hit an upside where someone develops into a 30+ MPG caliber player... that's something you can very easily slide next to Fox/Domas/Keegan. Davion's path to huge minutes has always just been limited because of his size/shooting and how small a Fox/Davion back-court would be.
Like many of you, I also like Davion. What’s not to like about a player that always plays hard and has been a proven winner throughout his basketball career?
That said, I do agree with others that he’s not the greatest fit for what the KINGS want to do offensively.
I think he could be a fantastic fit for a team that wants to play in the half court more often and is geared to play that way.
That said, I do agree with others that he’s not the greatest fit for what the KINGS want to do offensively.
I think he could be a fantastic fit for a team that wants to play in the half court more often and is geared to play that way.
This game demonstrates Davion doesn't deserve minutes on the floor. Defensively, he was tremendous that one time he stopped Kyrie one on one (that was HUGE because it's hard to stop Kyrie one on one). So, for him to get minutes, it's not really his defense as much as his ineffective offense. Did you see him attack and miss a lay up? Did you also see him attack and could have done a drop shot (since no one is really in front of him) but instead pass out and got intercepted? This is why his game is not what the Kings needed. He needs to hone his drop shots or something to take his game to another level. He can't just stand around and only taking open shot from facilitators.
Him and Barnes' game are what pissed me off. Barnes is just soft on defense whether individually or team defense. It's too easy to run around him and attack him because he'll just going to back off without resistant. And on team defense, he doesn't do the extra to help the team. Both players have complete opposite of deficiency. Barnes need Mitchell's aggressive defense and Mitchell needs Barnes offense. However, both players are undersized.
Him and Barnes' game are what pissed me off. Barnes is just soft on defense whether individually or team defense. It's too easy to run around him and attack him because he'll just going to back off without resistant. And on team defense, he doesn't do the extra to help the team. Both players have complete opposite of deficiency. Barnes need Mitchell's aggressive defense and Mitchell needs Barnes offense. However, both players are undersized.
Some thoughts on Davion,
I really like Davion, he plays hard, he loves basketball, he brings intensity and cares.
He is a great defender, exceptional individual defender, but because of his size and lack of length he is a bad help defender. He can easily be schemed out of a game and for someone's position (back up PG or SG) to get around 15-20 minutes a night, that can't happen.
He excels in individual defense on offensive players that want to dribble a lot or isolate, he has trouble on switches on bigger players. He is strong, think of a shorter Marcus Smart.
As a backup last year he really changed games and excelled when playing a combo guard where he didn't have to handle the ball, Davion + Dearron were closing games, he could focus on defending and just spot up shooting while Dearron handled the ball and created, but this year his offense looks even worse as a lead ball handler.
Consistently with him being lead guard off the bench, the shot clock runs low, he dribbles a lot but doesn't seem to get anywhere, a large percentage of his passes are not to create but rather because he has no other option and get deflected and he has a bit of tunnel vision, maybe because of his player and his size. Everything he has had success with seems to come off the dribble for himself but this isn't really what the team needs, right now. He has trouble giving interior entry passes, he has trouble running pick and roll and he also has trouble finishing around the rim, it seemed like he was better at doing that when he was a rookie, but then again that was a losing team and he had free reign.
Keon has emerged as just as good of a defender, he's longer, quick feet and incredibly good hands, really good position and help defense in scramble situations. He also fits in the offense better and also has shown a bit of creation or hockey assist ability. We've always seen the problems with the three guard lineups and its because everyone needed the ball in their hands, well now it seems Davion is the odd man out. I still think he has potential but he just does not fit on this team right now unless we need him for specific situations.
He'll get some minutes tonight vs the Pelicans but I'm afraid at this point he is what he is on this team, his offensive game is what keeps him off the court, not his defense.
I really like Davion, he plays hard, he loves basketball, he brings intensity and cares.
He is a great defender, exceptional individual defender, but because of his size and lack of length he is a bad help defender. He can easily be schemed out of a game and for someone's position (back up PG or SG) to get around 15-20 minutes a night, that can't happen.
He excels in individual defense on offensive players that want to dribble a lot or isolate, he has trouble on switches on bigger players. He is strong, think of a shorter Marcus Smart.
As a backup last year he really changed games and excelled when playing a combo guard where he didn't have to handle the ball, Davion + Dearron were closing games, he could focus on defending and just spot up shooting while Dearron handled the ball and created, but this year his offense looks even worse as a lead ball handler.
Consistently with him being lead guard off the bench, the shot clock runs low, he dribbles a lot but doesn't seem to get anywhere, a large percentage of his passes are not to create but rather because he has no other option and get deflected and he has a bit of tunnel vision, maybe because of his player and his size. Everything he has had success with seems to come off the dribble for himself but this isn't really what the team needs, right now. He has trouble giving interior entry passes, he has trouble running pick and roll and he also has trouble finishing around the rim, it seemed like he was better at doing that when he was a rookie, but then again that was a losing team and he had free reign.
Keon has emerged as just as good of a defender, he's longer, quick feet and incredibly good hands, really good position and help defense in scramble situations. He also fits in the offense better and also has shown a bit of creation or hockey assist ability. We've always seen the problems with the three guard lineups and its because everyone needed the ball in their hands, well now it seems Davion is the odd man out. I still think he has potential but he just does not fit on this team right now unless we need him for specific situations.
He'll get some minutes tonight vs the Pelicans but I'm afraid at this point he is what he is on this team, his offensive game is what keeps him off the court, not his defense.
I think Davion's strengths and weaknesses have been analyzed and discussed in great details. I however think that a major problem is also our team composition, particularly the strength of our guard rotation.
Fox, Kevin, and Monk will soak up the majority of the guard minutes. With Monk being a combo guard, and a lot of offense running through Domas, we don't need a pure PG (Davion is not one anyway), to backup Fox.
This means Davion has to fight Keon, CD, and Jones (perhaps more and more as the season goes along) for limited minutes. Few teams have such a luxury. Unfortunately, for him, this means there is little margin for error. If his own offense is missing, and the overall offense stalls, he's in trouble.
With the Western conference having many guard centric teams, or at least one star player at guard (Ws, Suns, Mavs, OKC, Nuggets, Grizz), he may be a valuable piece in the playoffs. Wish his outside shot improves though for him to see regular minutes. Will be good even for his trade value, if we decide to go that way.
Fox, Kevin, and Monk will soak up the majority of the guard minutes. With Monk being a combo guard, and a lot of offense running through Domas, we don't need a pure PG (Davion is not one anyway), to backup Fox.
This means Davion has to fight Keon, CD, and Jones (perhaps more and more as the season goes along) for limited minutes. Few teams have such a luxury. Unfortunately, for him, this means there is little margin for error. If his own offense is missing, and the overall offense stalls, he's in trouble.
With the Western conference having many guard centric teams, or at least one star player at guard (Ws, Suns, Mavs, OKC, Nuggets, Grizz), he may be a valuable piece in the playoffs. Wish his outside shot improves though for him to see regular minutes. Will be good even for his trade value, if we decide to go that way.
I have a problem with calling Davion a stupid pick……because we already were set at the position? Monte going after what he perceives is best player available has already transformed this franchise with the trade of Haliburton.
The guy has already proven he knows what he’s doing in talent evaluation but drafting is an in exact science that all GMs will eventually get things wrong. It’s about limiting your misses.
Taking Keegan over Ivey is proving to be a massive hit despite all the keyboard warriors and talking heads saying otherwise at the time.
And I’m not sure the book is written on Davion yet.
The guy has already proven he knows what he’s doing in talent evaluation but drafting is an in exact science that all GMs will eventually get things wrong. It’s about limiting your misses.
Taking Keegan over Ivey is proving to be a massive hit despite all the keyboard warriors and talking heads saying otherwise at the time.
And I’m not sure the book is written on Davion yet.
I think you guys need to give Davion time.
First and foremost, players that work as hard as he does don't grow on trees.
Second, his defense his elite and that also doesn't grow on trees.
Regarding his offense, he worked all offseason to improve his outside shot, that's a big deal, and I've seen improvement in that aspect.
Really what he needs now is to improve another part of his offensive game.
Whether it's a pull up dribble game, finishing inside with contact, just another aspect of offense, I think could be a really big deal.
Again, the guys a workhorse, imagine he spent all next offseason working on a floater what really would you want out of him more?
You guys just need to give him time.
First and foremost, players that work as hard as he does don't grow on trees.
Second, his defense his elite and that also doesn't grow on trees.
Regarding his offense, he worked all offseason to improve his outside shot, that's a big deal, and I've seen improvement in that aspect.
Really what he needs now is to improve another part of his offensive game.
Whether it's a pull up dribble game, finishing inside with contact, just another aspect of offense, I think could be a really big deal.
Again, the guys a workhorse, imagine he spent all next offseason working on a floater what really would you want out of him more?
You guys just need to give him time.
The thing is, he worked hard on his outside shot in the off-season and he’s still only shooting 30% from 3 this year.
All we really need from Davion is basically so be a 3 and D type of PG. Right now he’s all D and no 3, and considering he’s not even shooting 34% from the field right now, he’s becoming a liability on offense.
I agree with others that the book isn’t closed on him yet, but it’s his 3rd year and he hasn’t really seemed to make much of a leap at this point, despite working very hard. Maybe the offense is just not the right fit for him or maybe he needs to be on a team that will give him a longer leash to figure out his offensive game, but the Kings are trying to win now and we can’t wait for him to catch up.
I think finding a quality backup PG is going to be a priority for trades this season unless he gets it together very soon.
All we really need from Davion is basically so be a 3 and D type of PG. Right now he’s all D and no 3, and considering he’s not even shooting 34% from the field right now, he’s becoming a liability on offense.
I agree with others that the book isn’t closed on him yet, but it’s his 3rd year and he hasn’t really seemed to make much of a leap at this point, despite working very hard. Maybe the offense is just not the right fit for him or maybe he needs to be on a team that will give him a longer leash to figure out his offensive game, but the Kings are trying to win now and we can’t wait for him to catch up.
I think finding a quality backup PG is going to be a priority for trades this season unless he gets it together very soon.
Good point. It’s crazy to think Fox is only a few months older than Davion. He’s got a ton of heart but so did Frank Mason. Unfortunately, there are only so many 6ft and smaller dudes who find sustained success in the NBA. The ones that do are elite playmakers or scorers (CP3 and Lowry are ones I can think of).