[Game] Kings @ Rockets, 11/6/2023 5pm Pacific 8pm Eastern

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#31
They should have kept Terence Davis on the roster to continue developing him. His ability to score is missed, especially in this situation with Fox out and Huerter not producing much. Monk and Davis as an athletic scoring guard combo, gives the ability to still function as a high octane offense, which is what should still be this team's identity.

But instead they went the route of change, just to make change. Probably as a knee jerk to game 7. We'll see how it works out, but I don't know that this roster is actually more dangerous than what we had last season.
I've actually been very pleased with how we've upgraded the 9-11 slot. Duarte/Javale/Colby/Sasha all have largely been very good. The issue hasn't been with them, it's been with the core guys not holding up their own production and obviously 2 games sans Fox
 
#32
How is this lack of context? This simply is the record of our Davion minutes this year. And the reality is we're getting demolished when he's on the floor. Of course, that's not all his fault and because the sample is so small, it's very swingy and changes drastically every game right now. But it's certainly not a good indicator going forward, especially in a crucial year 3 of his career for his development.

We've seen him for 2+ years now and the same issues he had as a rookie haven't gotten better; in most cases they've actually gotten worse. He's not a playmaker and the offense stalls when he's the primary ball-handler. One thing I have liked is when he moves off-ball, things actually seem to work quite a bit better. Hopefully, that's something Brown can install with him and let Fox/Monk/Colby/Domas be the primary initiators on offense. Because clearly, with a 2+ year sample now, Davion hasn't figured out how to be a primary facilitator
I absolutely love Davion as a person, his hard nose attitude, grit, work ethic, etc. However, I feel like saying this really quietly, but I'm not sure his defense has really ever translated into a difference maker in the pros. Do we have any good analytics that tell us Davion is a top tier defender? Again, I'm not trying to be a "hater", I'm just slowly starting to realize after three years now that while there are moments of awesome "off night" ball pressure that gets me pumped, I'm not sure he's helping us on average on the defensive end as much as I probably felt he was before. Has someone looked at the numbers here?
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#33
Sactownkid said the same thing in the game thread.

My response is who cares? Lets make sure our starters can function properly again and Monk gives you like 70ish% of the same kind of skill-set that Fox does. Attacks downhill, attacks the rim, is the 3rd best playmaker on the team.

Davion has just been atrocious all season.


It might be time to pull the plug and move his minutes over to Colby/Duarte full-time. And see if we can still extract any sort of value from him now, because he's trending like someone who will bring in nothing this summer if he doesn't turn his season around quickly.
Watch out. Any more talk like that will make you the target of a The_Mobb hit!
 
#34
I absolutely love Davion as a person, his hard nose attitude, grit, work ethic, etc. However, I feel like saying this really quietly, but I'm not sure his defense has really ever translated into a difference maker in the pros. Do we have any good analytics that tell us Davion is a top tier defender? Again, I'm not trying to be a "hater", I'm just slowly starting to realize after three years now that while there are moments of awesome "off night" ball pressure that gets me pumped, I'm not sure he's helping us on average on the defensive end as much as I probably felt he was before. Has someone looked at the numbers here?
Yeah, they've been good in the past. For example, we were 3 points defensively with him on the floor last year and him subbing for Fox with the starters we were like 5-ish points better on defense. As a rookie, we were 5 points better defensively with him on the floor. And that was fairly consistent down the line where just about any successful defensive 5-man grouping we had included Davion.

The issue has always been him becoming just an even passable offensive player to justify keeping him on the floor. That's been his major struggle
 
#35
I've actually been very pleased with how we've upgraded the 9-11 slot. Duarte/Javale/Colby/Sasha all have largely been very good. The issue hasn't been with them, it's been with the core guys not holding up their own production and obviously 2 games sans Fox
I'm just not sure that Duarte is an upgrade to Davis, in terms of how it translates to the score board, especially with Fox out and Huerter cold. I would have rather continued developing Davis. We'll see
 
#36
I absolutely love Davion as a person, his hard nose attitude, grit, work ethic, etc. However, I feel like saying this really quietly, but I'm not sure his defense has really ever translated into a difference maker in the pros. Do we have any good analytics that tell us Davion is a top tier defender? Again, I'm not trying to be a "hater", I'm just slowly starting to realize after three years now that while there are moments of awesome "off night" ball pressure that gets me pumped, I'm not sure he's helping us on average on the defensive end as much as I probably felt he was before. Has someone looked at the numbers here?
The + - stats and how it translates to the score board, doesn't seem to paint a real effective picture for him, in terms of an overall player. I would also like to see all the detailed analysis for him
 
#37
Sactownkid said the same thing in the game thread.

My response is who cares? Lets make sure our starters can function properly again and Monk gives you like 70ish% of the same kind of skill-set that Fox does. Attacks downhill, attacks the rim, is the 3rd best playmaker on the team.

Davion has just been atrocious all season.


It might be time to pull the plug and move his minutes over to Colby/Duarte full-time. And see if we can still extract any sort of value from him now, because he's trending like someone who will bring in nothing this summer if he doesn't turn his season around quickly.
Yikes. Rare L for the Vinny Eye Test.

That's bad.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#38
I absolutely love Davion as a person, his hard nose attitude, grit, work ethic, etc. However, I feel like saying this really quietly, but I'm not sure his defense has really ever translated into a difference maker in the pros. Do we have any good analytics that tell us Davion is a top tier defender? Again, I'm not trying to be a "hater", I'm just slowly starting to realize after three years now that while there are moments of awesome "off night" ball pressure that gets me pumped, I'm not sure he's helping us on average on the defensive end as much as I probably felt he was before. Has someone looked at the numbers here?
I wish the refs let Davion play his physical defense. I feel as though they won’t let him while you see other guys like Gary Payton lll grab and shove. It’s frustrating.
 
#40
Bottom line: if Fox isn't playing we will need one of our shooters to get out of their slump. As constructed, and even with Fox on the floor, this team can't win more than half their games with our two wing sharpshooters hitting at ~30% or less.

I was hoping our roster was constructed to not have to rely on one skill - you all may remember me touting what I thought was the multi-dimensional attack we seemed to be working towards. I'm quite disappointed that that has not materialized. Even with Fox, we can't be a jump shooting team. I don't know, maybe it'll just take time for these guys to gel??

I just don't see as much motion in the offense as I was hoping for. That's going to require 1) the motion to happen, but 2) facilitators (not just the PG) to make the pass.
 
#41
Bottom line: if Fox isn't playing we will need one of our shooters to get out of their slump. As constructed, and even with Fox on the floor, this team can't win more than half their games with our two wing sharpshooters hitting at ~30% or less.

I was hoping our roster was constructed to not have to rely on one skill - you all may remember me touting what I thought was the multi-dimensional attack we seemed to be working towards. I'm quite disappointed that that has not materialized. Even with Fox, we can't be a jump shooting team. I don't know, maybe it'll just take time for these guys to gel??

I just don't see as much motion in the offense as I was hoping for. That's going to require 1) the motion to happen, but 2) facilitators (not just the PG) to make the pass.
We are taking way too many threes in my opinion. Maybe I'm just getting old, but 43 a game feels like 10 too many. Of course yeah it feels great when they are going in (and they will start to go in), but I'm just not the biggest fan of throwing up over 10 a quarter.
 
#42
I absolutely love Davion as a person, his hard nose attitude, grit, work ethic, etc. However, I feel like saying this really quietly, but I'm not sure his defense has really ever translated into a difference maker in the pros...Has someone looked at the numbers here?
Basketball Reference has Mitchell at 119 Defensive Rating last year, ahead only of Chima Moneke and Deonte Burton, and tied with Harrison Barnes (!). His defensive win share was 9th at .8, just behind Terence Davis at .9. His Win Share per 48 minutes was .05, 16th on the team, also just behind Terence Davis at .054.

The NBA uses different stats, so Mitchell's Defensive Rating was 7th on the team, again behind Davis. At the same time, his PIE was 14th on the team.

Davis is still unsigned, so far as I know.
 
#43
We are taking way too many threes in my opinion. Maybe I'm just getting old, but 43 a game feels like 10 too many. Of course yeah it feels great when they are going in (and they will start to go in), but I'm just not the biggest fan of throwing up over 10 a quarter.
43 threes is too many when you're hitting 30%. You need to be able to get to the basket when you're not hitting, and you can't just rely on one guy's elite ability to do that - as a team, you need to be able to get layups.

The issue as I see it is being a one dimensional offense. It's frankly the opposite of the direction I thought we were going in - you may remember my "three level attack" predictions. Honestly I'm baffled. Our offense seems to have taken a step back in terms of dynamism. I know it's only been five games, and our star has been out two... but I still don't like what I see.

First game was good... been shaky pretty much ever since. We'll see though! I am an optimist!
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#44
Sactownkid said the same thing in the game thread.

My response is who cares? Lets make sure our starters can function properly again and Monk gives you like 70ish% of the same kind of skill-set that Fox does. Attacks downhill, attacks the rim, is the 3rd best playmaker on the team.

Davion has just been atrocious all season.


It might be time to pull the plug and move his minutes over to Colby/Duarte full-time. And see if we can still extract any sort of value from him now, because he's trending like someone who will bring in nothing this summer if he doesn't turn his season around quickly.
But in the Manu role Monk starting wouldn't matter anyway. If there is an issue it's his minutes. Why is he still playing 25 mpg? Brown even if wrong sees something different out of Monk. Maybe if this game is a close one he plays those legit starters minutes. I'm not totally sure why he didn't last game but it's Browns MO at this point.
 
#46
They should have kept Terence Davis on the roster to continue developing him. His ability to score is missed, especially in this situation with Fox out and Huerter not producing much. Monk and Davis as an athletic scoring guard combo, gives the ability to still function as a high octane offense, which is what should still be this team's identity.

But instead they went the route of change, just to make change. Probably as a knee jerk to game 7. We'll see how it works out, but I don't know that this roster is actually more dangerous than what we had last season.
I was thinking about quite a bit watching this last game
 
#48
I'm fine with someone smacking him haha
If Duarte plays I see him the one to do it. I’m not crazy about his offense so far, but he is a tough defender and already has had some moments where he’s been chirping with opponents. Doesn’t seem like he takes kindly to the sort of stuff Dillon pulls.
 
#49
Same starting lineup. Should I bother to watch?

The Rockets look at that and say, "They only have one All-Star on the court. Let's double- and triple-team him and let Mitchell, Huerter, Murray try to beat us [snicker]."
 
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