[Game] Kings vs. Lakers, 10/29/2023 6pm Pacific 9pm Eastern

[twslam07]

The minute distribution for this rotation when we’re fully healthy is going to be…interesting.

Fox
Huerter
Murray
Barnes
Sabonis
—————
Mitchell
Monk
Duarte
Vezenkov
Lyles
McGee

I thought it was going to be Duarte, Vezenkov, and/or McGee potentially being squeezed out but the size that comes with a bench frontcourt of Vezenkov-Lyles-McGee may prove to be very valuable night in & night out considering our starting frontcourt (Murray-Barnes-Sabonis) has below average size/length.

I’m starting to sour more and more on Mitchell. With Fox, we already have a player who can play good defense on opposing PGs so having Mitchell’s defense may not be a “must have” vs. if your starting PG is someone like Lillard or Young.

With that in mind (and taking in the first few games), I’m wondering if this type of rotation would be optimal for us…

PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - Huerter (22) / Monk (12) / Duarte (14)
SF - Murray (32) / Vezenkov (12) / Huerter (4)
PF - Barnes (30) / Lyles (14) / Vezenkov (4)
C - Sabonis (34) / McGee (10) / Lyles (4)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Murray = 32 min
Barnes = 30 min
Huerter = 26 min
Monk = 26 min
Lyles = 18 min
Vezenkov = 16 min
Duarte = 14 min
McGee = 10 min

I think you’d ideally look to trade Mitchell before making this rotation change so you don’t tank his value though.

 

[The_Jamal]

You did get a chance to see a no-Center lineup at the end of the 4th quarter, when Vezenkov went in for Sabonis after Domas fouled out. Lakers outscored us 11-7 in those last 3 minutes, but I think it indicates that the coaching staff does plan to use that setup situationally, whether it's with Lyles or with Vezenkov.

Well, Lyles at the 5 is WAY different than Sasha. I think Lyles actually gets better at the 5, Sasha is just clearly out of position

 

[twslam07]

Well, Lyles at the 5 is WAY different than Sasha. I think Lyles actually gets better at the 5, Sasha is just clearly out of position

Yeah agreed. Lyles has more length/reach than Sabonis which helps make him passable defensively/on the boards (just don’t match him up with the Steven Adams of the world).

 

[The_Jamal]

The minute distribution for this rotation when we’re fully healthy is going to be…interesting.

Fox
Huerter
Murray
Barnes
Sabonis
—————
Mitchell
Monk
Duarte
Vezenkov
Lyles
McGee

I thought it was going to be Duarte, Vezenkov, and/or McGee potentially being squeezed out but the size that comes with a bench frontcourt of Vezenkov-Lyles-McGee may prove to be very valuable night in & night out considering our starting frontcourt (Murray-Barnes-Sabonis) has below average size/length.

I’m starting to sour more and more on Mitchell. With Fox, we already have a player who can play good defense on opposing PGs so having Mitchell’s defense may not be a “must have” vs. if your starting PG is someone like Lillard or Young.

With that in mind (and taking in the first few games), I’m wondering if this type of rotation would be optimal for us…

PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - Huerter (22) / Monk (12) / Duarte (14)
SF - Murray (32) / Vezenkov (12) / Huerter (4)
PF - Barnes (30) / Lyles (14) / Vezenkov (4)
C - Sabonis (34) / McGee (10) / Lyles (4)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Murray = 32 min
Barnes = 30 min
Huerter = 26 min
Monk = 26 min
Lyles = 18 min
Vezenkov = 16 min
Duarte = 14 min
McGee = 10 min

I think you’d ideally look to trade Mitchell before making this rotation change so you don’t tank his value though.

An issue we've been seeing is while Duarte has been terrible on O too, dude has taken some pretty on some pretty good wing D assignments and been great at it. He was excellent on LeBron last night and had a few great possessions where he got the stop. And while the off-ball game with Domas hasn't clicked yet, you can see there's clearly some chemistry there for something to develop.

So if we're gonna go with the defender with bad offense, may as well use that at the wing where he's easier to hide on offense as well. We're really struggling on offense when Davion is the primary ball-handler.

 

[The_Jamal]

Yeah agreed. Lyles has more length/reach than Sabonis which helps make him passable defensively/on the boards (just don’t match him up with the Steven Adams of the world).

We say that, but then I clearly remember the Wolves game last year where he just absolutely decimated Rudy Gobert in OT, who had no answer for his spacing on O. Or in Game 6, where the Keegan/Lyles 4/5 combo is why we won that game defensively and forced a game 7. And while Lyles doesn't quite have the height, he's absolutely someone willing to scrap in the paint and he's a pretty well-built dude that can take punishment down there.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1718870756225056837

That was a well-run play, and definitely showed Vezenkov's offensive awareness, but the way that Hachimura got spun around was... unfortunate. That's the kind of blown assignment that might land him on Shaqtin' this week.

 

[funkykingston]

Yeah agreed. Lyles has more length/reach than Sabonis which helps make him passable defensively/on the boards (just don’t match him up with the Steven Adams of the world).

Well, we don't have to worry about that specific matchup this season.

We say that, but then I clearly remember the Wolves game last year where he just absolutely decimated Rudy Gobert in OT, who had no answer for his spacing on O. Or in Game 6, where the Keegan/Lyles 4/5 combo is why we won that game defensively and forced a game 7. And while Lyles doesn't quite have the height, he's absolutely someone willing to scrap in the paint and he's a pretty well-built dude that can take punishment down there.

Yeah, Lyles isn't huge but he is Richaun Holmes sized with a strong lower body and the willingness to bang with guys down low.

I get the concern about Jokic and Embiid, but (1) it's not like Sabonis can really guard those guys either and (2) McGee might be a better matchup defensively, but how valuable is it to have Lyles pulling those guys away from the basket?

Imagine the damage you could do with a lineup of Fox, Monk, Murray (or Duarte) along with Vezenkov and Lyles. I think it should be matchup dependent, but it'll be a shame if Lyles doesn't get to play some small ball five in the regular season.

 

[funkykingston]

That was a well-run play, and definitely showed Vezenkov's offensive awareness, but the way that Hachimura got spun around was... unfortunate. That's the kind of blown assignment that might land him on Shaqtin' this week.

Yes and no. He was just being too aggressive in trying to navigate the screen. He is in good position with eyes on his man and the ball and in a good stance. But he feels Monk coming behind and he fights over to avoid getting backdoored before he realizes Sasha rejected the screen.

Not a great play by Hachimura, but it wasn't a complete brain fart. And Vezenkov will get quite a few guys this season, I'm sure.

 

[Tetsujin]

That was a well-run play, and definitely showed Vezenkov's offensive awareness, but the way that Hachimura got spun around was... unfortunate. That's the kind of blown assignment that might land him on Shaqtin' this week.

That’s the Rui experience in a nutshell.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yes and no. He was just being too aggressive in trying to navigate the screen. He is in good position with eyes on his man and the ball and in a good stance. But he feels Monk coming behind and he fights over to avoid getting backdoored before he realizes Sasha rejected the screen.

That stance is the reason why he might make it on Shaqtin'. What you say is correct but the optics of Hachimura being in defensive stance as his man goes the "wrong way" on him is exactly the sort of thing that gets put into that segment.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

That was a well-run play, and definitely showed Vezenkov's offensive awareness, but the way that Hachimura got spun around was... unfortunate. That's the kind of blown assignment that might land him on Shaqtin' this week.

My goodness that was a beautiful play. Maybe Hachimura will learn from that, but maybe he won't. But even if he does "learn" from it and doesn't shade that backdoor cut, well by golly we'll just go backdoor with that offball screen there. I wonder if this we a real-time read or planned 3pt shot... I lean towards the former.

This is what's so beautiful about our offense, there are so many options and once learned, allows our guys to really just "play". I can see Sasha having a +50% rate hitting threes as open as he was there.

Our roster is almost perfectly constructed for the the style of offense we play. Sure, can always upskill at a few spots here and there, but the general construction... I think Monte pretty much as that dialed.

Once Vezenkov gets really familiar with our guys and our offense... hoo boy. Lookout.

 

[The_Jamal]

Well, we don't have to worry about that specific matchup this season.



Yeah, Lyles isn't huge but he is Richaun Holmes sized with a strong lower body and the willingness to bang with guys down low.

I get the concern about Jokic and Embiid, but (1) it's not like Sabonis can really guard those guys either and (2) McGee might be a better matchup defensively, but how valuable is it to have Lyles pulling those guys away from the basket?

Imagine the damage you could do with a lineup of Fox, Monk, Murray (or Duarte) along with Vezenkov and Lyles. I think it should be matchup dependent, but it'll be a shame if Lyles doesn't get to play some small ball five in the regular season.

I'm also never concerned about guarding Jokic or Embiid. It just doesn't matter because there just isn't anyone in the league that can guard them anyway. Both guys are at the point where you kind of just let them do their thing and just not let the other guys beat you.

This is what I'm looking forward to seeing. I think could be absolutely dominate offensive unit, especially if it's primarily matched up with other opposing benches. Just Fox and Monk having free reign to attack the rim or just kicking out to 3 elite shooters.

The Monk-Javale connection in the PnR has been great though. Fairly certain they have like 4 connections for dunks already and there was a play last night where Monk got a free lay-up at the rim, because Wood went to guard the lob rather than stop the ball. Gives Brown options to really play match-ups.

 

[sactowndog]

I think coach needs to challenge him to take 3 a game. He’s so unselfish that domas is never going to think taking an open three early in the shot clock is the best shot for the possession. Coach is gonna have to start yelling at him like he does to Keegan to take that ****ing shot.

or at least look at the darn basket. On more than one occasion his man was dropping and Sabonis didn’t even look at the basket.

at this point it is clear the book on Sabonis is to dare him to shoot. Without Foxes A+ finishing he is going to have to.

 

[sactowndog]

View attachment 12120

ugh…. What I thought. That is a huge problem because one way to bog down the offense is just drop off Sabonis. And sorry for a Max player that isn’t a defensive presence and whose value is passing to cutters it is a non-starter.

 

[Telemachus]

That’s the Rui experience in a nutshell.

I would swear that Rui traveled every time he touched the ball.

 

[NewArena]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1719082063599636714

 

[NewArena]

My goodness that was a beautiful play. Maybe Hachimura will learn from that, but maybe he won't. But even if he does "learn" from it and doesn't shade that backdoor cut, well by golly we'll just go backdoor with that offball screen there. I wonder if this we a real-time read or planned 3pt shot... I lean towards the former.

This is what's so beautiful about our offense, there are so many options and once learned, allows our guys to really just "play". I can see Sasha having a +50% rate hitting threes as open as he was there.

Our roster is almost perfectly constructed for the the style of offense we play. Sure, can always upskill at a few spots here and there, but the general construction... I think Monte pretty much as that dialed.

Once Vezenkov gets really familiar with our guys and our offense... hoo boy. Lookout.

That's what is really exciting me right now. This is just game 3 lol imagine what it will be like by the time we get to January and beyond.

 

[SacTownKid]

I would swear that Rui traveled every time he touched the ball.

Welcome to the NBA haha. Supposed to call flops too but DLo exists and persists lol. I mean, yes, a lot of those were technically fouls by the Kings but the flop is supposed to be a totally separate thing I thought? Even if a foul is a foul, a flop is a flop.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1719127645479448758

35 year old Javale McGee posterizing 39 year old Bron. They say Father Time catches up to everyone but he doesn’t seem to have caught up to Javale or Lebron yet.

 

[NewArena]

You never wanna see anyone go down with injury, especially on our own squad, but i have a strong feeling that the valiant effort from Fox will pay dividends going forward - especially once we take them on in the post season, which i'm predicting will happen this go round.

 

[est.1999]

None at all.

Ok cool guy, dont let anyone catch you posting while frustrated ever in your life.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Counterpoint: maybe you wouldn't catch strays over comments like that, if you weren't very conspicuous about the fact that you only ever post in the [Game] threads when you're "frustrated." When things are going good for the Kings, we don't see you around here; as soon as things go off the rails, it's like somebody said "Beetlejuice" three times.

 

[coolhandluke]

The Lakers came into the game shooting 27% from 3. I would bet part of the plan on defense was to keep them out of the paint and prove they could hit some trees.

It looked like they missed the whole forest down the stretch.

 

[est.1999]

Counterpoint: maybe you wouldn't catch strays over comments like that, if you weren't very conspicuous about the fact that you only ever post in the [Game] threads when you're "frustrated." When things are going good for the Kings, we don't see you around here; as soon as things go off the rails, it's like somebody said "Beetlejuice" three times.

That’s easy for you to say, you’re not even a kings fan. No one here can question your loyalty, or lack thereof. You don’t know what kind of “fan” I am. I’ve posted plenty of times during “good times”.

 

[midtowner]

Ok cool guy, dont let anyone catch you posting while frustrated ever in your life.

This was the funniest thing I read today. Thank you.

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

That’s easy for you to say, you’re not even a kings fan. No one here can question your loyalty, or lack thereof. You don’t know what kind of “fan” I am. I’ve posted plenty of times during “good times”.

Huh, I am a Kings fan, and I think "frustration" posters are suspicious.

I think the Kings, having been bad since 2005 or so, has attracted fans that specifically get something out of yelling at sports teams and their athletes. In real life, nobody likes scolds, but kingsfans.com happens to be the venue where it's tolerated. For such "fans", a sucky sports team is actually the whole point.

 

[ESP47]

I've never heard of a person who follows sports, specifically bad teams, so they can be mad about their team all the time. Some people are just more pessimistic than optimistic. Really nothing wrong with that. Different personalities are going to "fan" differently.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

Huh, I am a Kings fan, and I think "frustration" posters are suspicious.

I think the Kings, having been bad since 2005 or so, has attracted fans that specifically get something out of yelling at sports teams and their athletes. In real life, nobody likes scolds, but kingsfans.com happens to be the venue where it's tolerated. For such "fans", a sucky sports team is actually the whole point.

I could not agree more with this - this has been my theory for a couple years. I'll also say the mods here are extremely tolerant of such behavior - much more gracious than I would be!

A while ago I got to thinking about this, because it really does seem to be pronounced among Kings fans - the persistent extreme negativity, it's beyond a typical beleaguered Cleveland Browns fan for example. I reversed the causality as a thought experiment: what if it wasn't the team making the fans negative, but the fans being negative in their own right. This made much more sense, because as we began to get good over the past couple years, and a legitimate light at the end of the tunnel began to appear - that light seemed allergic to some fans - who may or may not happen to post here occasionally. At that point it became clear to me that over the years the Kings had attracted some fans with a really negative mentality, and they were merely using a bad team as an excuse to look at things negatively. Doesn't quite work as well when you have actual hope and the team is objectively becoming good.

 

[midtowner]

I could not agree more with this - this has been my theory for a couple years. I'll also say the mods here are extremely tolerant of such behavior - much more gracious than I would be!

A while ago I got to thinking about this, because it really does seem to be pronounced among Kings fans - the persistent extreme negativity, it's beyond a typical beleaguered Cleveland Browns fan for example. I reversed the causality as a thought experiment: what if it wasn't the team making the fans negative, but the fans being negative in their own right. This made much more sense, because as we began to get good over the past couple years, and a legitimate light at the end of the tunnel began to appear - that light seemed allergic to some fans - who may or may not happen to post here occasionally. At that point it became clear to me that over the years the Kings has attracted some fans with a really negative mentality, and they were merely using a bad team as an excuse to look at things negatively. Doesn't quite work as well when you have actual hope and the team is objectively becoming good.

But what if you are a frustration eater - and your fandom just leads to more lasagna?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That’s easy for you to say, you’re not even a kings fan. No one here can question your loyalty, or lack thereof... I’ve posted plenty of times during “good times”.

What evidence is there of that? You literally didn't register to this message board until almost two years into the drought; you weren't here for any of the good times.

... You don’t know what kind of “fan” I am...

What I know is that, for the entirety of last season, you were one of a small handful of posters who followed a predictable pattern of posting little-to-nothing when the Kings were riding high, but came around quickly whenever the Kings were in a slump. And, through three games, you appeared to be following the same pattern: Literally no comments during or after the Jazz game (I went back and checked), no comments during the Warriors game until after the Kings fell behind, no comments during the lakers game until after the Kings fell behind, and no comments after they pulled it out in OT.