Training Camp, October 2023

[PorchSurfin]

every year, almost every Playoff team has championship aspirations. It's a good motivator for players, fans get riled up and get butts in the seats if the product is fun to watch, which it is. When you go out and have one winning season and then do a 360 and label yourself championship material, that has delusional written all over it but then again, these players are young, their brains are still developing and so it's one of those "in the situation" type of scenarios as far as I observe. Perhaps I'm wrong and they believe it to be true which can be extra juice, reality will tell us otherwise though, it's only a matter of time before we can resurrect this thread in May and look back to see who had an appropriate point of view on the matter without getting too high off of the beam.

You're really trying to justify this point you made, and keep doubling down on?

Listen, they felt like with the proper breaks their way that they were close to competing for a championship last year (and I dont disagree with them based off competition). They made tweaks that they included internal growth along with.

It's not a stretch to think they believe they have what it takes to compete. They were almost there last year.

 

[PorchSurfin]

That's the joke. We literally have a poster here telling our coach not to tell our players and fans to play for a championship. Me stating it that way is satirizing the hubris of that. But of course me explaining it ruins the joke.

I feel like I've entered crazy world.

You haven't entered crazy world my friend, it is upon us. To think that a young team, newly assembled and with a new coach, can't show improvement, is akin to basketball prediction suicide yes? And to also add peripheral pieces that seem to fit on paper and still predict them as not as good is still kind of stupid? Nope.

 

[kingsboi]

You're really trying to justify this point you made, and keep doubling down on?

Listen, they felt like with the proper breaks their way that they were close to competing for a championship last year (and I dont disagree with them based off competition). They made tweaks that they included internal growth along with.

It's not a stretch to think they believe they have what it takes to compete. They were almost there last year.

first round exit is almost there?

 

[kingsboi]

You haven't entered crazy world my friend, it is upon us. To think that a young team, newly assembled and with a new coach, can't show improvement, is akin to basketball prediction suicide yes? And to also add peripheral pieces that seem to fit on paper and still predict them as not as good is still kind of stupid? Nope.

the classic, you don't share my views so therefore you are the outcast approach. well done.

 

[PorchSurfin]

the classic, you don't share my views so therefore you are the outcast approach. well done.

That's such a BS response. Nothing you have said is rooted in the ideology or mentality of someone who competes, even at any level.

And everything kingspuppy says is rooted in disgust at the team so he/she is hardly taken seriously.

 

[PorchSurfin]

first round exit is almost there?

Yeah. For a Kings team who would have been overmatched for their next opponent, but got jobbed and also fell victim to minor jitters yeah.

You're constant doubling and tripling down is making you look so stupid. Stop lol.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

all I understand is that you don't like what I have to say and so you want to voice your matter on it, which is acceptable. This team has proven nothing, one good season. That doesn't mean that I'm not rooting for them to succeed but I just have a different view on the matter, that's all.

It's incredible how personally you take criticism of your obviously ridiculous point. And you keep doubling and tripling down on it.

The one who can't handle disagreement is you. You've accused me of being unable to entertain any differing views - simply because I disagreed with one, yours. You say that "I don't like what you have to say"... well yeah, I think you're colossally and ridiculously wrong and almost everyone here does as well, but feel free to quadruple down on giving the reigning Coach of the Year your pearls of wisdom about having mediocre expectations of improvement.

 

[kingsboi]

Yeah. For a Kings team who would have been overmatched for their next opponent, but got jobbed and also fell victim to minor jitters yeah.

You're constant doubling and tripling down is making you look so stupid. Stop lol.

in sports there is no such thing as would have. it's about the present moment and what have you done for me lately.

 

[kingsboi]

It's incredible how personally you take criticism of your obviously ridiculous point. And you keep doubling and tripling down on it.

The one who can't handle disagreement is you. You've accused me of being unable to entertain any differing views - simply because I disagreed with one, yours. You say that "I don't like what you have to say"... well yeah, I think you're colossally and ridiculously wrong and almost everyone here does as well, but feel free to quadruple down on giving the reigning Coach of the Year your pearls of wisdom about having mediocre expectations of improvement.

I look forward to discussing this again in May

 

[kingsboi]

That's such a BS response. Nothing you have said is rooted in the ideology or mentality of someone who competes, even at any level.

And everything kingspuppy says is rooted in disgust at the team so he/she is hardly taken seriously.

do you always get riled up when disagreeing with someone?

 

[PorchSurfin]

do you always get riled up when disagreeing with someone?

I loathe incompetence, ignorance, lack of critical thinking skills, and spatial awareness. Things I try to hammer home to my kids. When I see people who exhibit these behaviors yeah, I have zero patience for. Their parents should have taught them better.

You're both ignorant and lacking in critical thinking. Crazy

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I look forward to discussing this again in May

You'd rather be right by saying we aren't going to win a championship. You have the worst loser mentality I've ever seen. Congrats.

 

[kingsboi]

I loathe incompetence, ignorance, lack of critical thinking skills, and spatial awareness. Things I try to hammer home to my kids. When I see people who exhibit these behaviors yeah, I have zero patience for. Their parents should have taught them better.

You're both ignorant and lacking in critical thinking. Crazy

not at all. you simply lack understanding of perspectives that differ from yours and it takes some time to get out of that rabbit hole

 

[kingsboi]

You'd rather be right by saying we aren't going to win a championship. You have the worst loser mentality I've ever seen. Congrats.

I live in reality, if they go on and have a second round exit then it's improvement from last season. it's all about those hurdles.

 

[PorchSurfin]

not at all. you simply lack understanding of perspectives that differ from yours and it takes some time to get out of that rabbit hole

Bruh lol. I'll entertain any idea as long as it's within reason. You saying the team should not set their sights on the ultimate goal after reaching the dance is idiotic.

I'm sorry, but you sound like a moron. I'm done with this convo lol.

 

[kingsboi]

Bruh lol. I'll entertain any idea as long as it's within reason. You saying the team should not set their sights on the ultimate goal after reaching the dance is idiotic.

I'm sorry, but you sound like a moron. I'm done with this convo lol.

I think in due time, you will come around to my understanding. It just needs to sink in

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Yeah, and that's fine and all, but you're basically telling them not to shoot for the stars because of the moon.

We're up to nearly 20 posts back and forth on this topic and not a single person has managed to point out that PorchSurfin's "Now, Voyager" reference was inverted. I blame everybody.

 

[mrlaze]

Any other year id agree ai

the classic, you don't share my views so therefore you are the outcast approach. well done.

No. Youre the only one arguing this angle, that makes you the outcast.

We get it.

We don't agree with you.

 

[Rain man]

I live in reality, if they go on and have a second round exit then it's improvement from last season. it's all about those hurdles.

Ah, but now you are moving the goal posts. The original argument was whether our coach should say championship is the goal. I cannot think of any coach who finished top 3 in the conference who would not say championship is the goal the next year. You were called on that take, appropriately, and you are obviously wrong. It is ridiculous that a coach and players of a top 3 team should not say the championship is their goal. To say otherwise would defeatist before the season even started.

But now you are shifting the argument. Now you are judging actual results. I don’t think we are going to win a championship either, but I think it is a good goal for this group. But you aren’t somehow right that they shouldn’t have had it as a GOAL if they lose in the second round.

 

[funkykingston]

I think in due time, you will come around to my understanding. It just needs to sink in

No, I don't think any of us will. You're conflating fan expectations and the actual team's goal and motivation.

I think most fans are hoping the Kings make the playoffs again and ideally win a first round series and continue their upward trajectory. Anything more than that is gravy.

The team has championship aspirations because that's what any good team should have. They are preparing for a long hard fought season where they expect to make the playoffs and then to take last year's experience to advance as far as they can in the playoffs with the goal of being the last team standing.

No good team sets their sights on making the 2nd round. The motivation to go hard every practice, every weight training session, every extra shooting session, every time they watch film, is that it will pay off with a Larry O'Brien trophy. If Mike Brown told the team flat out, "we're going to give everything we have so that we can win a first round series" he'd be doing his team a disservice.

That's the disconnect of this whole conversation. If it were highly realistic that the Kings were going to win a championship this year, they wouldn't be +5000 in the Vegas odds right now. But having their coach set a "reasonable" goal for this season isn't how you get the best out of your team.

 

[The_Jamal]

I honestly don’t get the handwringing about who is a 3 and who is a 4. The best NBA teams put their best guys on the court and make you adapt. Instead of worrying about how to match what other teams are doing, teams like the Warriors, Suns, Celtics, Nuggets, etc… get their best guys out there and beat you playing their game. The Warriors aren’t worrying about wing defense- they are telling you that they will play Steph, Paul, Klay and Wiggins and make you figure it out. The suns aren’t worrying about who can play point guard. They are rolling their best guys on to the court and saying “stop us.”

So why are you always so worried about who plays the 3? Our best pure 3 is probably Kessler. He is also probably (at best) the 10th best player on the team. The kings shouldnt change their rotation to fit some standard model in order to play the 10th best guy more minutes. They should roll out their tremendous firepower and make teams adjust to them.

I mean, if we had a strong 3 who was one of our top 6-7 players, then sure, play him. But don’t take minutes from better players just to play a “3.” We did plenty fine with non-3s like HB and Keegan last year.

Yep. Positions haven't mattered since the Warriors revolution like 10 years ago, but they especially don't matter in today's game. It's Ball-handler/wing/Big. There's no "1-5" labels anymore.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Yep. Positions haven't mattered since the Warriors revolution like 10 years ago, but they especially don't matter in today's game. It's Ball-handler/wing/Big. There's no "1-5" labels anymore.

Amen

 

[kingsboi]

Any other year id agree ai
No. Youre the only one arguing this angle, that makes you the outcast.

We get it.

We don't agree with you.

you don't have to agree with me, I state my peace and move on

 

[kingsboi]

No, I don't think any of us will. You're conflating fan expectations and the actual team's goal and motivation.

I think most fans are hoping the Kings make the playoffs again and ideally win a first round series and continue their upward trajectory. Anything more than that is gravy.

The team has championship aspirations because that's what any good team should have. They are preparing for a long hard fought season where they expect to make the playoffs and then to take last year's experience to advance as far as they can in the playoffs with the goal of being the last team standing.

No good team sets their sights on making the 2nd round. The motivation to go hard every practice, every weight training session, every extra shooting session, every time they watch film, is that it will pay off with a Larry O'Brien trophy. If Mike Brown told the team flat out, "we're going to give everything we have so that we can win a first round series" he'd be doing his team a disservice.

That's the disconnect of this whole conversation. If it were highly realistic that the Kings were going to win a championship this year, they wouldn't be +5000 in the Vegas odds right now. But having their coach set a "reasonable" goal for this season isn't how you get the best out of your team.

no dispute on having reasonable goals. a reasonable goal is making more strides than you did last season and whether that's a second round appearance or a western conference appearance is a great step in that direction. when you start talking championships this soon? that's when I'd have to disagree

 

[kingsboi]

Ah, but now you are moving the goal posts. The original argument was whether our coach should say championship is the goal. I cannot think of any coach who finished top 3 in the conference who would not say championship is the goal the next year. You were called on that take, appropriately, and you are obviously wrong. It is ridiculous that a coach and players of a top 3 team should not say the championship is their goal. To say otherwise would defeatist before the season even started.

But now you are shifting the argument. Now you are judging actual results. I don’t think we are going to win a championship either, but I think it is a good goal for this group. But you aren’t somehow right that they shouldn’t have had it as a GOAL if they lose in the second round.

a goal is great to set, just set some realistic ones is all I ask.

 

[Tetsujin]

a goal is great to set, just set some realistic ones is all I ask.

Is it not realistic for the three seed from the playoffs last season to want to win the championship?

 

[kingsboi]

Is it not realistic for the three seed from the playoffs last season to want to win the championship?

considering the end result, no. Regular season success is only one step towards the ultimate goal, its a process that needs constant fine tuning.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

I think in due time, you will come around to my understanding. It just needs to sink in

Nobody will ever come around to your understanding unless your referring to your fellow inmates in the looney bin you're in.

I showed my Nonna this thread. She said that you're "beyond the sauce". My friend that's a terrible place to be. That means not even a heaping serving of my nonna's sauce can help you. Very sad.

 

[Caccia]

Is it not realistic for the three seed from the playoffs last season to want to win the championship?

Doggone it. Someone hijacked my thread.

 

[See_Hanks]

all I understand is that you don't like what I have to say and so you want to voice your matter on it, which is acceptable. This team has proven nothing, one good season. That doesn't mean that I'm not rooting for them to succeed but I just have a different view on the matter, that's all.

Yah but they were the 3rd seed. We owned the Lakers, were 2nd best on the road in the NBA by one game (1st in western conference) and we had the best offense by far. There weren't really any super teams last year so why on earth were the Kings not title contenders last year? Why aren't they this year? If you look at the west again this year there aren't really any super teams, just like last year. Most playoff teams this year (and play-in) will hover between .500 and about 10-15 games above .500. Do you think if we knocked out the Warriors that we couldn't have handled the Lakers? We own the Lakers, and they know it. The next step would have been playing Denver, who we were only 1-2 against in the regular season.

Personally where I think you don't get it right is that there are no super teams in the west. No dominating 60 win team. The one seed will probably have 55 wins and the last play-in team will probably have between 42-45 wins. Every team in the playoffs are title contenders, and the Kings are no different. We are a good team. A VERY good team. On paper we are as good as any team in the NBA and on the floor we have already proved we are. Do you think we will take a step back like the 2nd year of the Webber era where they were the 8 seed, barely above .500? This team, at this point in their evolution, is better than the Webber, Divac team. Not to mention teams that play together longer (meaning GOOD TEAMS) only get better. The core is back, and we added more 3pt shooting (which is kind of where the league is headed).

I am saying we will be a 55-59 win team this year and will be in the top 1st to 4th team in the west and will have another Pacific Division title.