Kings trade Richaun Holmes and 24th overall pick to Mavericks for ????
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Mavs could well start
Holmes
Doncic’s
Prosper
Hardy
Irving.
So my bad, I missed pick 49 included Vezenkov rights. I think your 2021 data is inaccurate. We traded TD to Toronto for a second. We traded 35 (Tillman) for the Woodard pick and a 2022 second.
as for the use of them:
you already mentioned Wright.
I think the Duarte trade is equally odd given you have Huerter, Monk, Jones, and Ellis already at where he can guard offensively.
TD never became a rotation piece whom we let walk for nothing. So losing an asset after 2 years is not a win.
trading Tillman still in the league for Woodard is a loss
we shall see the results of the Hardy trade but he can be a key player on the Mavs
we shall see if Vezenkov can guard anyone.
Holmes
Doncic’s
Prosper
Hardy
Irving.
So my bad, I missed pick 49 included Vezenkov rights. I think your 2021 data is inaccurate. We traded TD to Toronto for a second. We traded 35 (Tillman) for the Woodard pick and a 2022 second.
as for the use of them:
you already mentioned Wright.
I think the Duarte trade is equally odd given you have Huerter, Monk, Jones, and Ellis already at where he can guard offensively.
TD never became a rotation piece whom we let walk for nothing. So losing an asset after 2 years is not a win.
trading Tillman still in the league for Woodard is a loss
we shall see the results of the Hardy trade but he can be a key player on the Mavs
we shall see if Vezenkov can guard anyone.
Don't change the subject lol. You said he sold picks for cash. Concede you were wrong, THEN we can talk about his effectiveness with 2nd round picks.
-We acquired TD from TOR for a 2nd. What?
-I already noted we traded Tillman for Woodard and a future 2nd? That 2nd would then be flipped for Vezenkov.
I will point out how in the world would you consider TD a loss? 1958 minutes,121 games with the Kings, of being an ok 9th/10th man role player. That's good value for a 2nd round pick considering how few of them ever crack an NBA rotation.
-We acquired TD from TOR for a 2nd. What?
-I already noted we traded Tillman for Woodard and a future 2nd? That 2nd would then be flipped for Vezenkov.
I will point out how in the world would you consider TD a loss? 1958 minutes,121 games with the Kings, of being an ok 9th/10th man role player. That's good value for a 2nd round pick considering how few of them ever crack an NBA rotation.
Sometimes facts get in the way of agendas. What is funny is his last line saying we will see if Vezenkof can guard anyone then lists the Mavs potential starting lineup consisting of these defensive stalwarts Doncic, Irving, Hardy and then the Holmes pick and roll defense is horrid and the rookie is a rookie.
Approximately 20% of 2nd round picks are still in the NBA after 5 years. Link
To trade a 1 in 5 chance at a rotation player for a 2.5 seasons of actual production is a win or at the very, very least a push. Trying to use it as evidence of wasted assets makes zero sense IMO.
And yes, the argument was that this front office sold picks. It hasn't. Saying it could/should have been more successful with those picks is both moving the goalposts and a lot of 20/20 hindsight. I liked Xavier Tillman but I had no issue with Woodard as a prospect. And I liked the gamble on Ramsey. I don't remember a lot of outcry at the time.
We love to cherry pick the successful 2nd round picks, but how many teams are regularly successful at mining rotation players or more each year in the 2nd round? Not many.
To trade a 1 in 5 chance at a rotation player for a 2.5 seasons of actual production is a win or at the very, very least a push. Trying to use it as evidence of wasted assets makes zero sense IMO.
And yes, the argument was that this front office sold picks. It hasn't. Saying it could/should have been more successful with those picks is both moving the goalposts and a lot of 20/20 hindsight. I liked Xavier Tillman but I had no issue with Woodard as a prospect. And I liked the gamble on Ramsey. I don't remember a lot of outcry at the time.
We love to cherry pick the successful 2nd round picks, but how many teams are regularly successful at mining rotation players or more each year in the 2nd round? Not many.
I also don't love the argument of "We traded Hardy! We traded Tillman!" When we have no idea if those guys were high on our board anyway. I assume the only reason we traded back is because we had the info that Woodard was going to be there at pick 40. If we stayed at pick 35, I'm assuming Woodard would have been the selection, not Tillman.
we will see what happens. They could also start the 10th pick rookie center. Mavs are going to be interesting to watch.
I think Richaun is either black or white. Play him with a good pick and roll guard who wants to shoot 3’s or get to the rim and can throw an accurate lob and he is great. That was Haliburton and that will be Doncic. It was not Fox at all.
Prosper gives the Mavs a long lock down defender they don’t have. If he can hit a 3 point shot in the NBA he is a prototype 3 & D wing which Dallas really needs.
anyway this trade has a reasonable chance of being one of the worst trades in the past 5-10 years.
I think Richaun is either black or white. Play him with a good pick and roll guard who wants to shoot 3’s or get to the rim and can throw an accurate lob and he is great. That was Haliburton and that will be Doncic. It was not Fox at all.
Prosper gives the Mavs a long lock down defender they don’t have. If he can hit a 3 point shot in the NBA he is a prototype 3 & D wing which Dallas really needs.
anyway this trade has a reasonable chance of being one of the worst trades in the past 5-10 years.
The problem here is the assumption we draft those guys if we kept the pick. The only reason they're in our draft slot is because that's who the Mavs wanted.
Like if Monte took Colby at 24 and Omax went 28, does he get blamed if Omax is a star? In that case, shouldn't every GM who passed on Giannis never work again?
Like if Monte took Colby at 24 and Omax went 28, does he get blamed if Omax is a star? In that case, shouldn't every GM who passed on Giannis never work again?
For God's sake let us sit upon the ground
And tell sad stories of the waste of picks:
How some have been misspent, some sold for cash,
Some pawned for cap space never outward spent,
Some bartered down the line, some sent in trade,
All wasted - for within the hollow crown
That rounds the Golden Center of the Kings
Keeps Monte's court, and there the Vivek sits,
In courtside seat and schmoozing with the stars,
Allowing Monte just a little space
To monetize and use the MLE;
And fools McNair with second apron thoughts
As if the cash which bankrolls this our team
Were gold innumerable; and thus misled
In comes the thrift, and with a penny pinch
Rejects the lux'ry tax, and farewell Kings!
And tell sad stories of the waste of picks:
How some have been misspent, some sold for cash,
Some pawned for cap space never outward spent,
Some bartered down the line, some sent in trade,
All wasted - for within the hollow crown
That rounds the Golden Center of the Kings
Keeps Monte's court, and there the Vivek sits,
In courtside seat and schmoozing with the stars,
Allowing Monte just a little space
To monetize and use the MLE;
And fools McNair with second apron thoughts
As if the cash which bankrolls this our team
Were gold innumerable; and thus misled
In comes the thrift, and with a penny pinch
Rejects the lux'ry tax, and farewell Kings!
24th overall pick Omax to create space to sign our franchise player Domas a year early, has a "reasonable" chance of being one of the worst trades in the past 5-10 years? It's conservative, no doubt, but it's not some disgustingly low value trade where we get nothing.
Good lord man, what are you talking about? You're acting like we traded off a Wemby/Scoot level talent in this deal. AND we can never know if Monte would have drafted Omax at 24 in the first place, so what's this hand-wringing about?
Good lord man, what are you talking about? You're acting like we traded off a Wemby/Scoot level talent in this deal. AND we can never know if Monte would have drafted Omax at 24 in the first place, so what's this hand-wringing about?
I'll make a prediction right here: OMax Prosper will not be a starter for Dallas this season. I hope he has a good career, but I highly doubt he was on the King's radar in the draft. McNair seems to like players who are well rounded, and Prosper is not. He is a good defensive prospect, but not a lock down defender. He falls for fakes a lot and will have to adjust to succeed in the NBA. My biggest problem is that is his only skill at the moment. He doesn't rebound, get assists, steals or block shots. He only shot 34% from 3, which doesn't bode well for this season. For reference, Kessler Edwards' worse college season from 3 was his Freshman year when he shot 37%.
You say whatever, guy was a class guy while he was here. A lone bright spot through much of Walton's run, and despite how it ended we get a sincere message about what were surely some dark days for him.
In any case, I wish him well - which ain't easy, cuz I don't wish Dallas well.
Here's a handy list of notable picks the Kings made outside the lotto in the Petrie era as we try to evaluate where picks in the 20s and early second round ultimately play out:
2001 25 Gerald Wallace
2002 28 Dan Dickau
2004 26 Kevin Martin
2005 23 Francisco Garcia
2006 19 Quincy Douby
2008 42 Sean Singletary
2008 43 Patrick Ewing Jr.
2009 23 Omri Casspi
2010 33 Hassan Whiteside
2011 35 Tyler Honeycutt
2011 60 Isaiah Thomas
2012 36 Orlando Johnson
2013 36 Ray McCallum Jr.
I count three that are "worth getting excited about", and 3 more that are worth a second contract (including Whiteside who actually took 2-3 teams to develop into worthy of that second contract which was probably his 3rd or 4th. That's less than 50% for a guy that was generally considered a good talent evaluator before the Maloofs got too meddlesome.
2001 25 Gerald Wallace
2002 28 Dan Dickau
2004 26 Kevin Martin
2005 23 Francisco Garcia
2006 19 Quincy Douby
2008 42 Sean Singletary
2008 43 Patrick Ewing Jr.
2009 23 Omri Casspi
2010 33 Hassan Whiteside
2011 35 Tyler Honeycutt
2011 60 Isaiah Thomas
2012 36 Orlando Johnson
2013 36 Ray McCallum Jr.
I count three that are "worth getting excited about", and 3 more that are worth a second contract (including Whiteside who actually took 2-3 teams to develop into worthy of that second contract which was probably his 3rd or 4th. That's less than 50% for a guy that was generally considered a good talent evaluator before the Maloofs got too meddlesome.