Sasha Watch 2022-2023

[SacTownKid]

Olympiacos won their 1st game against Fenerbahce. I don't know man, Monte might indeed want carve out some space for Sasha next season. I think this is a pretty big get in terms of fit and talent. This is the type of player that carves out a starting space. This isn't someone who will battle a Trey Lyles for minutes or a spot, this is someone that will challenge your starters.

 

[ockingsfan]

Olympiacos won their 1st game against Fenerbahce. I don't know man, Monte might indeed want carve out some space for Sasha next season. I think this is a pretty big get in terms of fit and talent. This is the type of player that carves out a starting space. This isn't someone who will battle a Trey Lyles for minutes or a spot, this is someone that will challenge your starters.

Monte may be looking at Sasha as a upgrade/replacement for HB at the stretch 4.

Re-signing HB to a 4 year contract (likely needed) may be longer than what HB “prime window” would be. It may be wiser for Monte to move on to someone younger with more upside than invest long term in HB who has hit his ceiling.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Monte may be looking at Sasha as a upgrade/replacement for HB at the stretch 4.

Re-signing HB to a 4 year contract (likely needed) may be longer than what HB “prime window” would be. It may be wiser for Monte to move on to someone younger with more upside than invest long term in HB who has hit his ceiling.

Sasha is 27 only a couple years younger than HB. My biggest concern with replacing Barnes with Sasha is he doesn't profile as a good defender and doesn't get to the line at the rate Harrison does.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Sasha is 27 only a couple years younger than HB. My biggest concern with replacing Barnes with Sasha is he doesn't profile as a good defender and doesn't get to the line at the rate Harrison does.

Valid point. Of course I'm of the opinion that given our financial situation it's possible to sign Barns to a longer deal at a lower rate and bring Sasha over as a replacement for Lyles. We can't expect Trey's play to have been under the radar now that he's had his appearance in the playoffs. It is likely there are teams that will offer him a good chunk of change and good for him. But Sasha would definitely be an upgrade coming from the bench assuming he's willing to take that role. It also creates a challenge for him to earn his way into a starting lineup by expanding his game which is possible.

 

[ockingsfan]

Valid point. Of course I'm of the opinion that given our financial situation it's possible to sign Barns to a longer deal at a lower rate and bring Sasha over as a replacement for Lyles.

HB's asking price remains to be seen, but if I'm Monte, I wouldn't bring back HB at his current salary of $18 mil per year for 3 or 4 years.

Maybe a shorter 2 year deal (2 years at $30 mil) or longer 3 or 4 years at a lower salary (i.e. 3 yr/$42 mil)? If we can bring back HB on a team friendly contract I'd do it. But, if he's asking for too much, I would probably move on.

 

[funkykingston]

I can't see Sasha as a starter because I think he'll struggle to guard anyone at the NBA level.

But I could imagine a lot of small ball lineups with Lyles at the 5 (if re-signed) and Sasha at the 4 along with Monk, Davion and any number of people at the other wing spot (Edwards, Murray, Barnes - if brought back, or Huerter).

But you'd also want to see Brown stagger the rotation to give Vezenkov minutes alongside Domas. His off ball movement and ability to stretch the floor seem ideal for what the Kings do with Sabonis. And Fox for that matter.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think you sign both, we're going to be well over the cap once Domas signs and unless Vivek is as cheap as the people who hate him most think, it's time to start planning on how to operate above the cap. At some point HB or Sasha become a trade asset if needed to get over the hump. But Monte has to strategize how to utilize MLE to stay in that grey zone from the Salary Cap but under the luxury tax.

I'm fine going after another MLE target first, but failing that we sign this guy with what we have.

 

[HndsmCelt]

I think you sign both, we're going to be well over the cap once Domas signs and unless Vivek is as cheap as the people who hate him most think, it's time to start planning on how to operate above the cap. At some point HB or Sasha become a trade asset if needed to get over the hump. But Monte has to strategize how to utilize MLE to stay in that grey zone from the Salary Cap but under the luxury tax.

I'm fine going after another MLE target first, but failing that we sign this guy with what we have.

I think you're right about becoming accustomed to being over the cap. Finding out that you've got a rabid fan base that will pay virtually any price for tickets especially playoff tickets helps justify that money pretty quickly.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think you're right about becoming accustomed to being over the cap. Finding out that you've got a rabid fan base that will pay virtually any price for tickets especially playoff tickets helps justify that money pretty quickly.

Well there's a management aspect to it too, namely when Vlade took over the team we had made some bad choices and were stuck in 7th from bottom hell for a long time but we were completely cap tied and could do nothing. Over the years we made moves that eventually got us back into contention and in doing so always flirted with the cap line. Which is fine, you expire one year and maybe you upgrade that spot. But now that we have 6-7 guys we want to keep we have to pay them when they are due and that's going to put us over, so at that point you have to take the other 6-8 spots and say "what are we doing here" - and usually that means paying some guys to use as bait/salary filler.

Look at how the Dubs managed KD's departure - they took on money they didn't need which eventually became Wiggins. Then people are mocking them for what they are paying Poole, but that's another convertible asset down the road. I think Holmes is now in that spot. He may be unmovable next year but the following year he'll be expiring at which point someone wanting space may take him for a pick or prospect.

The key is the new CBA includes a lot more provisions for luxury repeaters that will punish them not just with tax penalties, so team better be very good at that middle area.

 

[ockingsfan]

Look at how the Dubs managed KD's departure - they took on money they didn't need which eventually became Wiggins. Then people are mocking them for what they are paying Poole, but that's another convertible asset down the road. I think Holmes is now in that spot. He may be unmovable next year but the following year he'll be expiring at which point someone wanting space may take him for a pick or prospect.

For some reason, teams seem to fall all over themselves to take the trash off the Warriors and Lakers teams and give them back something of worth....... Like Utah trading all their playoff ready players to the Lakers in a Russel Westbrook salary dump trade.... Or Minnesota trading Wiggins for D'Angelo Russel.....

For every other team like the Kings, we get stuck with Richaun's Holmes contract that no one will probably touch until he becomes an expiring contract next summer.

I'm not saying that Monte can't work some magic, but with the Kings history, it may be better to let marginal talent (i.e. Bogdan) walk than to overpay for them to someday become an unmovable contract. Monte needs to plan ahead, you can't expect teams to bail us out of bad contracts like they do the Lakers and Warriors year after year.....

 

[pdxKingsFan]

For some reason, teams seem to fall all over themselves to take the trash off the Warriors and Lakers teams and give them back something of worth....... Like Utah trading all their playoff ready players to the Lakers in a Russel Westbrook salary dump trade.... Or Minnesota trading Wiggins for D'Angelo Russel.....

For every other team like the Kings, we get stuck with Richaun's Holmes contract that no one will probably touch until he becomes an expiring contract next summer.

I'm not saying that Monte can't work some magic, but with the Kings history, it may be better to let marginal talent (i.e. Bogdan) walk than to overpay for them to someday become an unmovable contract. Monte needs to plan ahead, you can't expect teams to bail us out of bad contracts like they do the Lakers and Warriors year after year.....

The thing with Bogdan was he had no use on the roster as assembled and we were a bad team but if ATL hadn't put that trade kicker into his contract I imagine we'd have matched and moved him to MIL after the no-trade period ended.

The main thing is leverage. LA was way into luxury. I don't understand how they got what they did. But Golden State was astute management. Minnesota did not want Wiggins, they actually saw Russel as an upgrade and paid GS handsomely (via picks) to take Wiggins away. Turns out maybe Minnesota is the problem.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Wiggins himself was considered trash when he was brought over from the Wolves. He turned his career around in GS

 

[SacTownKid]

Sasha is 27 only a couple years younger than HB. My biggest concern with replacing Barnes with Sasha is he doesn't profile as a good defender and doesn't get to the line at the rate Harrison does.

Exactly and he looks very much like a DHO guy. 3 DHO guys next to Sabonis and Fox is good for stats but the playoffs are showing us why it might not be good for rings. I do think Sasha and Murray could be more than just plain DHO guys though. Same with Huerter but his regression in the playoffs is a concern for sure.

 

[SacTownKid]

I can't see Sasha as a starter because I think he'll struggle to guard anyone at the NBA level.

But I could imagine a lot of small ball lineups with Lyles at the 5 (if re-signed) and Sasha at the 4 along with Monk, Davion and any number of people at the other wing spot (Edwards, Murray, Barnes - if brought back, or Huerter).

But you'd also want to see Brown stagger the rotation to give Vezenkov minutes alongside Domas. His off ball movement and ability to stretch the floor seem ideal for what the Kings do with Sabonis. And Fox for that matter.

The only thing I am starting to think is "so what". If the Kings defensive issues are personnel related the only answer is to clear out all the spots next to Sabonis and Fox because 1 player here or there isn't changing a thing.

 

[KF8]

We needed this guy. Good shooter and rebounder. Surely he would have been better than Barnes?

 

[KF8]

Since playing time is allegedly one of the main factors whether sasha is coming over.. would barnes leaving make it more likely that sasha comes over? He'll get plenty more playing time.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1652042152984330241

Lol tell me the Kings couldn’t have used this

 

[Warhawk]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1653513572821901314

 

[Hoovtrain]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1653513572821901314

I don’t recall, but is there a set $ amount for overseas guys at team has the rights to when they come over?

 

[SacTownKid]

I don’t recall, but is there a set $ amount for overseas guys at team has the rights to when they come over?

If the Kings want him, he's coming. Trust that Monte knows what he's doing.

 

[SacTownKid]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1652042152984330241

Lol tell me the Kings couldn’t have used this

Dudes got that flat out ridiculous shots within his arsenal hahaha.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I don’t recall, but is there a set $ amount for overseas guys at team has the rights to when they come over?

No, since Vezenkov is a second-round pick, we have to negotiate with him, and we need to have cap room or use an exception for his salary. We may not have cap room (we would need to renounce Barnes, at the least, to acquire cap room), but we do have the MLE and the BAE available.

Previous discussions have concluded that the full MLE should easily be enough to entice Vezenkov to come over, and that we may be able to get him for less than that.

 

[The_Jamal]

Dudes got that flat out ridiculous shots within his arsenal hahaha.

Almost every highlight that comes through on twitter is him pulling some insane shot with some insane quick release as an off-ball sniper. And it while he doesn't create much off his own bounce, he's an amazing cutter and can give you a variety of different looks at the rim with a real nice floater too. Seems to be an aggressive rebounder.

I'd much rather gamble that Vezenkov is just actually a good-great NBA player for a bargain price than go pay for past production in a guy like Grant/Kuzma or even Barnes. Same idea with going and getting a Naz Reid or a Grant Williams. The best time to buy on these guys is before they've hit a peak and you end up having a real value for their first contract.

The Kings playoff series really showed they still need shooting that's not afraid of the big moment and can produce when needed. Everything in Vezenkov's overseas profile suggests he's that guy.

 

[kingsfan101]

Well there's a management aspect to it too, namely when Vlade took over the team we had made some bad choices and were stuck in 7th from bottom hell for a long time but we were completely cap tied and could do nothing. Over the years we made moves that eventually got us back into contention and in doing so always flirted with the cap line. Which is fine, you expire one year and maybe you upgrade that spot. But now that we have 6-7 guys we want to keep we have to pay them when they are due and that's going to put us over, so at that point you have to take the other 6-8 spots and say "what are we doing here" - and usually that means paying some guys to use as bait/salary filler.

Look at how the Dubs managed KD's departure - they took on money they didn't need which eventually became Wiggins. Then people are mocking them for what they are paying Poole, but that's another convertible asset down the road. I think Holmes is now in that spot. He may be unmovable next year but the following year he'll be expiring at which point someone wanting space may take him for a pick or prospect.

The key is the new CBA includes a lot more provisions for luxury repeaters that will punish them not just with tax penalties, so team better be very good at that middle area.

Largely agree with one minor caveat. Teams taking on expiring contracts will typically not offer picks/prospects. They will typically want them, and send a good vet in return. Picks/prospects and future cap space is their compensation, and helps match salaries too.

Not saying that it can't happen, but it's rare. That actually might work for us if we are in that spot where a trade can push us over a hump.

 

[kingsfan101]

For some reason, teams seem to fall all over themselves to take the trash off the Warriors and Lakers teams and give them back something of worth....... Like Utah trading all their playoff ready players to the Lakers in a Russel Westbrook salary dump trade.... Or Minnesota trading Wiggins for D'Angelo Russel.....

For every other team like the Kings, we get stuck with Richaun's Holmes contract that no one will probably touch until he becomes an expiring contract next summer.

I'm not saying that Monte can't work some magic, but with the Kings history, it may be better to let marginal talent (i.e. Bogdan) walk than to overpay for them to someday become an unmovable contract. Monte needs to plan ahead, you can't expect teams to bail us out of bad contracts like they do the Lakers and Warriors year after year.....

I have often wondered if the agents pressurize small market teams to help out big markets like Lakers and Warriors. Some folks have suggested the league might also be involved, but I don't think they can be so brazen.

Agents, OTOH, can probably be. Some of them represent the biggest names and often top draft picks. Small market teams can't really afford to antagonize them. While I am sure bad management is at the root of it, some of their decisions might be with some understanding with the agents of a future favor.

 

[Hoovtrain]

No, since Vezenkov is a second-round pick, we have to negotiate with him, and we need to have cap room or use an exception for his salary. We may not have cap room (we would need to renounce Barnes, at the least, to acquire cap room), but we do have the MLE and the BAE available.

Previous discussions have concluded that the full MLE should easily be enough to entice Vezenkov to come over, and that we may be able to get him for less than that.

Thanks. One more question. Assuming they brought him over for the MLE, what are the kings looking at cap space wise this offseason? For some reason I thought they were around 20, but I’m so out of the loop these days with nba cap, MLE/BAE etc

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Largely agree with one minor caveat. Teams taking on expiring contracts will typically not offer picks/prospects. They will typically want them, and send a good vet in return. Picks/prospects and future cap space is their compensation, and helps match salaries too.

That makes no sense. Teams take on multi-year (usually bad) contracts with a pick in exchange for their expirings. One team is trading draft flexibility for the other team's cap flexibility. The way you state it one team gets both.

 

[kingsfan101]

That makes no sense. Teams take on multi-year (usually bad) contracts with a pick in exchange for their expirings. One team is trading draft flexibility for the other team's cap flexibility. The way you state it one team gets both.

Not sure if I wasn't clear. My argument is that teams that trade for expiring contracts are looking to rebuild (and hence looking for cap space). They will not trade away their picks/prospects. Instead, they will trade vets who don't fit their time line, and try to get picks/prospects instead.

Yes, teams take on multi-year bad contracts for picks/prospects (though honestly, can't think of examples). Those teams are usually the ones who want to rent their cap space, and feel they have a better chance of getting young players this way, than in free agency. Those teams too are often rebuilding. I don't see us in that position. I think we will try to get some vet who can contribute.

Too far out for me to think though. For me, the only decisions that really matters are Barnes/Lyles/Len.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Not sure if I wasn't clear. My argument is that teams that trade for expiring contracts are looking to rebuild (and hence looking for cap space). They will not trade away their picks/prospects. Instead, they will trade vets who don't fit their time line, and try to get picks/prospects instead.

Yes, teams take on multi-year bad contracts for picks/prospects (though honestly, can't think of examples). Those teams are usually the ones who want to rent their cap space, and feel they have a better chance of getting young players this way, than in free agency. Those teams too are often rebuilding. I don't see us in that position. I think we will try to get some vet who can contribute.

Too far out for me to think though. For me, the only decisions that really matters are Barnes/Lyles/Len.

Teams that trade for expirings think they are a free agent or two away from contention. Usually this is done at the deadline, where the expiring player is good but not great. The trading team doesn't want to lose them for nothing, so they do a pick for expiring trade.

Teams that trade for picks are thinking 2-3 years in the future. They don't need to sign a free agent, so they will take on a bad player with a bad contract so they can increase the value of their own picks at the same time (tank).

They aren't the same motivations. You might be confusing a star for picks trade where expirings are also included for salary matching. That's a different can of worms and not a position we are in.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Thanks. One more question. Assuming they brought him over for the MLE, what are the kings looking at cap space wise this offseason? For some reason I thought they were around 20, but I’m so out of the loop these days with nba cap, MLE/BAE etc

It all depends on who we keep, but it looks like if we were to use the full MLE on Vezenkov (~$11M but he may not take that much) then waive/renounce about anybody we could, including Barnes, Lyles, TD, Ellis, Queta - we'd have something like $13M left over.

A lot hinges on Barnes and whether we want him back. If not, and we want to go max space (that is, not immediately sign Vezenkov and gut everybody not on a contract, and stretch Holmes - I mean absolute complete scorched earth) then we'd have about $25M in cap space.

We should anticipate being a team that operates over the cap this summer.