Is Sabonis's best position PF or C?
- Thread starter ockingsfan
- Start date
Being physical is fine. Breaking actual rules constantly and not getting called for it is not about physicality though -- it's about respecting the game. If you can't agree to play a game within the rules or you look for ways to cheat when you can get away with it, you're not great and you don't deserve to be called a winner.
People have lost their damn minds.I don't know either. Complaining about refs only makes you look like a sore loser but I can't unsee all the flopping, flailing, and over the back rebounds. At some point it has to be incumbent upon the league to actually clean up these things. I don't want to root for a team that outcheats the other team -- I want to see two teams compete within the rules and the better team wins.
I'd like to see the league make several changes, but unless they do, all you can do is work within how the league operates. To me it's about addressing and game planning things that are within your control. Like becoming elite at boxing out. I can't remember many Kings players who I would consider elite at this fundamental
Speaking generally, I agree. The Kings have done a really poor job of boxing out all season. In reference to this series though, it wouldn't have mattered. They had Looney boxed out on more than half of the rebounds he pulled down. It's not just about work -- Monte will need to go out and find a physical PF/C type of player who can outjump other bigs for contested rebounds. Holmes is the only guy on our roster who has been able to do that and he seems to have lost the ability some time in late 2021.
But then aren’t we just trying the Sabonis/Turner pairing again but with a more injury-prone version? And that pairing didn’t even work in the first place. Plus, I’m not comfortable with moving Keegan to SF in his second season. Let’s see how he develops in his natural position and see if he takes a leap offensively and/or defensively before we tinker with his position please.
The other guy who I've written down as a perfect fit at PF for us is Usman Garuba on Houston. He's barely playing right now and it's possible he's another one of my draft crush pipedreams who never pans out but his per36 stats are very intriguing:
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
The free throw shooting needs to improve and the fouls need to come down but both of those are pretty typical improvement areas for most young players. He's a very mobile defender who also has the size to bang in the post and he's already had a history of making catch and shoot jumpers (primarily corner threes) dating back to his time with Real Madrid. Houston has a ton of young forwards with multiple picks on the way so it's highly likely somebody on that roster is going to be cast aside.
Code:
Season Age Team Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2021-22 19 HOU NBA PF 24 2 239 2.9 6.6 .432 0.8 3.0 .250 2.1 3.6 .583 0.8 1.1 .714 3.2 9.3 12.5 2.6 1.5 1.7 0.9 4.2 7.2
2022-23 20 HOU NBA PF 75 1 970 3.2 6.6 .486 0.9 2.2 .407 2.3 4.4 .525 1.1 1.7 .617 4.5 6.9 11.4 2.4 1.6 1.1 1.7 5.0 8.4
Career NBA 99 3 1209 3.1 6.6 .475 0.9 2.4 .367 2.3 4.2 .535 1.0 1.6 .630 4.2 7.4 11.6 2.4 1.6 1.2 1.6 4.9 8.1The free throw shooting needs to improve and the fouls need to come down but both of those are pretty typical improvement areas for most young players. He's a very mobile defender who also has the size to bang in the post and he's already had a history of making catch and shoot jumpers (primarily corner threes) dating back to his time with Real Madrid. Houston has a ton of young forwards with multiple picks on the way so it's highly likely somebody on that roster is going to be cast aside.
Disclaimer...I am an old guy, and am no expert in things.
I agree and...
I do not understand why we have a guy like DS in the center not playing like a center. I don't think he boxes out well, and I did not see him focus on clearing the ball out to a guard when he did get the defensive board. He would take off dribbling it. That, to my old head, makes no sense. Get the dang ball to a guy who ball handles for a living, and move up the court, get in position.
The other thing that got my goat in the playoffs was his tendency to stop playing the game and wait for a foul whistle. I think he needs to work on playing the game unless he hears the whistle. Drives me nuts.
He can be a lot better...a lot...just my opinion.
I agree and...
I do not understand why we have a guy like DS in the center not playing like a center. I don't think he boxes out well, and I did not see him focus on clearing the ball out to a guard when he did get the defensive board. He would take off dribbling it. That, to my old head, makes no sense. Get the dang ball to a guy who ball handles for a living, and move up the court, get in position.
The other thing that got my goat in the playoffs was his tendency to stop playing the game and wait for a foul whistle. I think he needs to work on playing the game unless he hears the whistle. Drives me nuts.
He can be a lot better...a lot...just my opinion.
This is because he can do things that no one in the game can do at center, other than Jokic. We just have to accept the bad with the good when it comes to Domas. There's no surprises with him. We knew he wouldn't be a defensive stalwart at the 5 and he's not quick enough to play the 4. McNair needs to build around him. I was as mad about Looney owning him in the paint as anyone else but it's difficult to gripe about the leading rebounder in the game not boxing out. He didn't lead the league in rebounds without knowing how to rebound.
Sabonis taking the ball up the court is by design. He doesn't lead fast breaks but he'll trail as the lead ball handler because he's the best passer on the team.
It sounds like you want him to play more like a traditional 5. If that's the case then we'd be better off with a Robert Williams type center but the offense would go from the best of all time to probably around mid pack if we didn't have Sabonis.
A right fitting 4 that can play some defense and spread the floor would be the perfect fit next to Domas. Those types are difficult to find but I'm sure McNair knows this as much as anyone and is on the look for one.
Sabonis taking the ball up the court is by design. He doesn't lead fast breaks but he'll trail as the lead ball handler because he's the best passer on the team.
It sounds like you want him to play more like a traditional 5. If that's the case then we'd be better off with a Robert Williams type center but the offense would go from the best of all time to probably around mid pack if we didn't have Sabonis.
A right fitting 4 that can play some defense and spread the floor would be the perfect fit next to Domas. Those types are difficult to find but I'm sure McNair knows this as much as anyone and is on the look for one.
Honestly, Domas on defense wasn't even close to the problem. It was his offensive game. In fact, his work on the glass and defense in game 6 is a huge reason we won that game to even force a game 7. Like most of the team, our league best offense faltered probably in large part our conductor wasn't playing up to his usual self.
I'm just not going to stress about this playoff series for Domas as I just don't think there's any way he was at better than like 50-60% health wise. You don't just fall off from being an ALL-NBA player the entire season, be remarkably consistent all season (even with a broken thumb) to just falling off a cliff because Kevin Looney has a big wing span and the Warriors had a good defensive scheme for him. You're telling me NO one else in the NBA could figure out how to play Domas all season? The Warriors just magically did in game 83?
If he stumbles (assuming healthy) next year in the playoffs... then you start to worry. Another reason I'm hoping you go get a Naz Reid type this off-season is to hopefully limit his workload a bit during the regular season. Especially during the middle stretch of the season, we had to run him into the ground because no one was able to step up and claim that back-up C slot. From Dec 1 onward:
December: 36.4 MPG
Jan: 36.1 MPG
Feb: 34.5 MPG
March: 36 MPG
April: 31.2 MPG
And most of this stretch was with the broken thumb, which he took all of one game off for. In comparison to some of his other big man counterparts:
Jokic: 69 GP--2323 minutes
Embiid: 66 GP--2284 minutes
AD: 56 GP--1904 minutes
Bam: 75 GP--2598 minutes
Sabonis: 79 GP-- 2736 minutes
Figuring out a way to get Domas to the playoffs healthier and not as run-down needs to be a priority for the Kings this off-season. He had the 6th most minutes in the NBA last season.
I'm just not going to stress about this playoff series for Domas as I just don't think there's any way he was at better than like 50-60% health wise. You don't just fall off from being an ALL-NBA player the entire season, be remarkably consistent all season (even with a broken thumb) to just falling off a cliff because Kevin Looney has a big wing span and the Warriors had a good defensive scheme for him. You're telling me NO one else in the NBA could figure out how to play Domas all season? The Warriors just magically did in game 83?
If he stumbles (assuming healthy) next year in the playoffs... then you start to worry. Another reason I'm hoping you go get a Naz Reid type this off-season is to hopefully limit his workload a bit during the regular season. Especially during the middle stretch of the season, we had to run him into the ground because no one was able to step up and claim that back-up C slot. From Dec 1 onward:
December: 36.4 MPG
Jan: 36.1 MPG
Feb: 34.5 MPG
March: 36 MPG
April: 31.2 MPG
And most of this stretch was with the broken thumb, which he took all of one game off for. In comparison to some of his other big man counterparts:
Jokic: 69 GP--2323 minutes
Embiid: 66 GP--2284 minutes
AD: 56 GP--1904 minutes
Bam: 75 GP--2598 minutes
Sabonis: 79 GP-- 2736 minutes
Figuring out a way to get Domas to the playoffs healthier and not as run-down needs to be a priority for the Kings this off-season. He had the 6th most minutes in the NBA last season.
Domas has occasionally struggled against bigger longer centers, it’s even in his draft scouting report. But guess what, lots of guys struggle against those types. He did at the beginning of the season fouling out and getting stripped a bunch and then he figured it out the rest of the year. The biggest thing that Domas struggled to adapt to in the playoffs was the lack of fouls. He lived at the line all season and they just weren’t calling anything on his bully drives against the Warriors. Other players who get a ton of foul shots have found that out too (Austin “I am Him” comes to mind). Austin has adapted a bit in round two. Sabonis is smart enough to learn and change it up a bit next year if we face that type of player again.
Bigs that can space the floor are probably the most valuable thing after elite wings/elite level player in general.. I think moving forward it is on Sabonis to prove he can play well in the playoffs he's been badly outplayed but Tristan Thompson twice and once by Looney/Green so far. None of this would be an issue imo if Huerter did not play beyond putrid imo he was the reason the Kings lost also Barnes did his classic disappearing act both seem to have got off lighlty imo with all the focus on Sabonis
I appreciate the responses to my post guys. I learned some things here, thank you. If this is by design he needs to take those short jumpers tho..
And hit 'em.
I still think he needs to quit standing around and waiting for a foul call. I can imagine this would grind on officials after a bit, and they might get less liikely to blow the whistle when he feels he was fouled.
And hit 'em.
I still think he needs to quit standing around and waiting for a foul call. I can imagine this would grind on officials after a bit, and they might get less liikely to blow the whistle when he feels he was fouled.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Did no one else watch Domas pull jumpers and 3's when he was open during the regular season? Did I hallucinate 82 games of that?
It's just not something to worry about unless we see the same hesitancy to start next season (with the assumption he's back fully healthy) or if he doesn't pull open jumpers in our next playoff series.
Did no one else watch Domas pull jumpers and 3's when he was open during the regular season? Did I hallucinate 82 games of that?
It's just not something to worry about unless we see the same hesitancy to start next season (with the assumption he's back fully healthy) or if he doesn't pull open jumpers in our next playoff series.
Yes and no. He was very inconsistent with his jumper all season long even before fracturing his thumb. For his 3pt shots, he was only averaging 1.2 attempts before his injury and also ended up with 1.2 attempts at the end of the season. For his mid range shots prior to his injury, he was only averaging about 1 attempt per game according to NBA.com. He ended up around the same after his injury.
I noticed that there were games where he was automatic from the mid-range, but then there were other games where he choose to attack close outs and score inside instead. The stats don't agree with the eye test, but it did feel like we saw him more confident with his jumper early on in the season.
But in the playoffs? He didn't even look to take jumpers except for maybe 1 game. He was a non-shooter...but I don't think he was ever a good shooter before. His shooting is a concern, but it's always been a known concern. The Kings just have to live with it. Anyone expecting him to turn into Jokic from the perimeter might be doing some wishful thinking.
I noticed that there were games where he was automatic from the mid-range, but then there were other games where he choose to attack close outs and score inside instead. The stats don't agree with the eye test, but it did feel like we saw him more confident with his jumper early on in the season.
But in the playoffs? He didn't even look to take jumpers except for maybe 1 game. He was a non-shooter...but I don't think he was ever a good shooter before. His shooting is a concern, but it's always been a known concern. The Kings just have to live with it. Anyone expecting him to turn into Jokic from the perimeter might be doing some wishful thinking.