Roster construction/rotation discussion (Split from Grizzlies [Game] thread)
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
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possibly but the Black Falcon we saw at the beginning of last year was absolutely that guy. Plus it would be against second units instead of the cream of the crop. The other thing I would like to accomplish is giving him a few less minutes. Even though he is in fantastic shape it always seems like he gets worn down more than others at the end of the year.
This was a trash deal for who Barnes has been the last 2 seasons. You can't come back now that he's "fallen" off, although he just gave a classic HB efficiency game and claim it was the right move all along.
Right or wrong, (mostly wrong), the Kings have tried to win the last 2 years and not reset. You don't trade one of your only good players and legit only wing for a crap tank deal.
Right or wrong, (mostly wrong), the Kings have tried to win the last 2 years and not reset. You don't trade one of your only good players and legit only wing for a crap tank deal.
The problem isnt a single decicion like wether we should've traded Barnes or not. The problem is the bigger picture, the process or the strategy what ever you want to call it.
Its the horrible process that causes a lot of these mistakes that generate these hidsight discussions. like @The_Jamal said, the process/strategy caused that decision, same as trading away Haliburton ect. If you want to win now and maybe get to the 8th seed/play in, you will not trade Barnes for a 1st and a prospect when he still has some trade value as an aging vet getting close to needing extension as unrestricted fa, you wont trade Holmes when hes playing a career year, you will trade a promising young guy that loves being here and you have basically 6 more years of his rights for a player thats basically in his prime and enters UFA and needs a huge contract. You also spend 50million a year on vets right after trading away your franchise player (aka being in a perfect position to rebuild but of course not because win now). The list goes on and on for multiple years back.
We've not been the worst franchise in the league because of some single trade desicion. When the method, the way of doing things, the strategy ect is continuously bad it will lead to bad decicions and bad results. Thats exactly why this franchise has been the worst for the past 10+ years of time frame and it most likely wont change as long as the process stays bad.
Its the horrible process that causes a lot of these mistakes that generate these hidsight discussions. like @The_Jamal said, the process/strategy caused that decision, same as trading away Haliburton ect. If you want to win now and maybe get to the 8th seed/play in, you will not trade Barnes for a 1st and a prospect when he still has some trade value as an aging vet getting close to needing extension as unrestricted fa, you wont trade Holmes when hes playing a career year, you will trade a promising young guy that loves being here and you have basically 6 more years of his rights for a player thats basically in his prime and enters UFA and needs a huge contract. You also spend 50million a year on vets right after trading away your franchise player (aka being in a perfect position to rebuild but of course not because win now). The list goes on and on for multiple years back.
We've not been the worst franchise in the league because of some single trade desicion. When the method, the way of doing things, the strategy ect is continuously bad it will lead to bad decicions and bad results. Thats exactly why this franchise has been the worst for the past 10+ years of time frame and it most likely wont change as long as the process stays bad.
The thing is that the Kings NEED to make the playoffs. A entire generation of potential fans has pretty much been lost due to continued lack of success. Tanking is cool or whatever if you're a hardcore diehard NBA fan but the people who actually pay to go to games don't care about a "Process" or whatever. Even just getting to the playoffs this year and then blowing things up next year would be fine. There just needs to be an angle for potential fans to buy in to the franchise.
let’s see. How much better would the Kings be now if the had…
- Wagner at forward avg 15.8 ppg
- Nesmith at forward avg … 8.9
- Still had Haliburton as no glut at guard and unbalanced roster
- Likely had a center with the Boston pick.
In my opinion they would have been a much better team with much higher prospects heading into this season.
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The idea that we'd be in position to draft Wagner if we'd just traded Barnes is iffy at best. (The Magic lost 8 more games than us that season and if Barnes really is a good enough player to make up that gap, we probably shouldn't trade him anyways)
Also Aaron Nesmith kinda sucks so I'm glad we didn't trade for him.
Also Aaron Nesmith kinda sucks so I'm glad we didn't trade for him.
Well first of all as we've seen for the past how many years, that strategy is bad. It leads to bad future with minimal success in the present. This leads to situation where you think "you must make the playoffs". Its a horrible cycle that I've hoped and hoped we ended for so many years now. Nothing changes if every season the strategy stays the same.
For the fans I dont think it changes much if for 2-3 years you win 25 games rather than 34. You suck either way. And this could've already been done. We didnt because "we had to make the playoffs". You cant fool fans for 20 years in a row that well now its all different and we are good enough to maybe be in the playoffs. At least when you are rebuilding you have a clear plan that you can succesfully execute while building the long term core.
When the process is good and intelligent, it will generate better decisions and results and the more casual fans will find their way back we get those better results
For the fans I dont think it changes much if for 2-3 years you win 25 games rather than 34. You suck either way. And this could've already been done. We didnt because "we had to make the playoffs". You cant fool fans for 20 years in a row that well now its all different and we are good enough to maybe be in the playoffs. At least when you are rebuilding you have a clear plan that you can succesfully execute while building the long term core.
When the process is good and intelligent, it will generate better decisions and results and the more casual fans will find their way back we get those better results
The Magic drafted Suggs with their own pick. the Magic drafted Wagner with the Pelicans pick (we had the same record and lost on a coin flip). We would have only had to lose 1 more game. The game Barnes hit a miracle last second three would have sufficed.
the bigger question is how much better would Barnes have made Boston and where their pick would have landed.
the bigger question is how much better would Barnes have made Boston and where their pick would have landed.
Theres allways been a clear plan with the Kings. We'll see how this one goes but my point was that the process has literally been proven to be bad for god knows how many years and it directly had led to these bad decisions. This current plan was formed from the same strategy/process as all the previous ones so I'm not extremely hopefull but of course I hope it works.
IMO its absolutely not a rebuild when you continue with the same exact process and same exact strategy. If at the beginning of every year you start with the "we have to make the 8th seed/play in", you keep doing the same thing all over again. To me rebuild is when you actually change somethin significant: make a different plan, focus on the future and make moves according to that new plan. Thats rebuilding to me. Making moves with the same plan, process and strategy is closer to shuffling the chairs than rebuilding imo
I mean, we've had this discussion every single year for like the last 7 years on how to build this properly (i know you've been right there from the beginning preach the same stuff too). Vivek just isn't going to let it happen, or trust a FO to "process" the team correctly. Thankfully, I think McNair is very good at finding a reasonable balance between Vivek's insistence on an 8 seed and good young players that can still be good in 3-5 years.
I guess I"m not ready to punt this season either. The Kings top 8 are all actually good players (maybe can't count Davion outside his late season surge yet) and the best the team has had in 18 years. I'll give it 20 games before jumping ship.
I guess I"m not ready to punt this season either. The Kings top 8 are all actually good players (maybe can't count Davion outside his late season surge yet) and the best the team has had in 18 years. I'll give it 20 games before jumping ship.